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Old Jan 29th, 2012, 04:37 PM   #76
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Re: the Grand Slam Record Book vol. 2

In the new Elo rankings after Australian 2012, Kvitova went from 59th to 47th, just after Ivanovic. No other variations among the first 60 players.
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Old Jan 30th, 2012, 05:35 PM   #77
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Re: the Grand Slam Record Book vol. 2

Originally Posted by Rollo
And wonderful as the book is, it has errors. Not a lot from what I can tell, but they are there.

Quote:
Posted by Fantasio I'm still waiting. If there are errors, I will correct all of them, but at this moment not a single one has been notified to me.
Sorry not to respond earlier Fantasio. I've been gone for a while

IAlso, note my intentions here (especially post 1).
http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=447550


With that in mind I'll start with the 1922 Australian Championships.

We have

Singles (Draw=15)

1st Round

Mall Molesworth d. Annie Gray 7-5 6-3
Marjorie Mountain d. Mrs GB Stevens 6-4 6-3
Syd Carr d. Miss Rock 6-2 1-6 8-6
Gwen Utz d. Esme Doddemeade 6-4 6-2

Esna Boyd d. Floris St.George 6-4 6-1
Jessie Watson d. Mrs M Grant 6-3 6-2
Sylvia Lance d. Lorna Bull 6-3 6-1
Mary Elliott-bye

Quarterfinals

Molesworth d. Mountain 6-4 6-4
Utz d. Carr default
Boyd d. Watson 6-3 6-2
Lance d. Elliot 6-1 6-2

Semifinals

Boyd d. Lance 6-4 10-8
Molesworth d. Utz 6-2 6-3

Final
Mall Molesworth d. Esna Boyd 6-3 10-8
-------------------------------------------------

Doubles (Draw=9)

Preliminary Round

Annie Gray/Nellie Lloyd d. Lorna Bull/Mary Elliott 6-4 6-3

Quarterfinals

Esna Boyd/Marjorie Mountain d. Mrs Docker/Miss Schultze 6-1 6-4
Mall Molesworth/Jessie Watson d. Syd Carr/Esme Doddemeade 7-5 4-6 6-3
Irene Forbes-Smith/Sylvia Lance d. Gray/Lloyd 5-7 13-11 6-2
Floris St.George/Gwen Utz d. Daisy Garland/D Menzies 6-3 6-2

Semifinals

Boyd/Mountain d. Molesworth/Watson 7-5 6-3
St.George/Utz d. Forbes Smith/Lance default

Final
Esna Boyd/Marjorie Mountain d. Floris St.George/Gwen Utz 1-6 6-4 7-5
-------------------------------------------------

Mixed Doubles (Draw=15)

1st Round

Gwen Utz/Harold Utz-bye
Sylvia Lance/Stewart Henderson d. Mary Elliott/Jack Clemenger 6-0 6-0
Marjorie Mountain/Rupert Wertheim d. Lorna Bull/Keith Poulton 3-6 6-4 6-3
Hazel Webber/Arthur Yencken d. Minnie Goodman/Bruce Dive 6-0 9-7

Esna Boyd/John Hawks d. Syd Carr/Dudley Bullough 6-4 6-0
Mall Molesworth/Leslie Baker d. Mitchell/Prosper Sandral 6-1 7-5
Jessie Watson/E Jordan d. Grace Paterson/William Sheehan 6-4 6-3
Annie Gray/Percy Lane d. Floris St. George/Frank Peach 8-6 5-7 10-8

Quarterfinals

Utz/Utz d. Lance/Henderson default
Mountain/Wertheim d. Webber/Yencken 6-0 6-2
Boyd/Hawkes d. Molesworth/Baker 6-2 5-7 6-2
Watson/Jordan d. Gray/Love ????? (probable default)

Semifinals

Utz/Utz d. Mountain/Wertheim 6-3 6-3
Boyd/Hawkes d. Watson/Jordan 6-3 6-3

Final
Esna Boyd/Jack Hawkes d. Gwen Utz/Harold Utz 6-1 6-1
-------------------------------------------------

Draw notes and resolves:

The official site does not have the complete draw for any of the five events. It also lists our 2 missing Mixed QF results as byes, clearly an oversight. It also has an incorrect doubles semifinal result. All results stemming from this site should be double-checked.

Wednesday 6th and Thursday 7th washed out and tournament didn't finish until Saturday 9th December. The backup in play explains the defaults in the doubles events.

The Sydney Morning Herald, in its Dec 9 edition, indicated that Miss Lance had to default in the women's doubles and the mixed with her partner Henderson. The reason given was her departure for New Zealand. Note that the rand Slam book and official Aussie sites have a score for this semi.However, unless these scores can be verified in another source (such as anewspaper) the default in the semis of the doubles is the likely score. See the following:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/arti...ore*%7C*ignore*

Last edited by Rollo : Jun 15th, 2012 at 12:49 PM.
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Old Jan 30th, 2012, 05:47 PM   #78
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Re: the Grand Slam Record Book vol. 2

In comparing that to your published results for 1922 I see the following:


For singles you are missing these first names:

Annie Gray 7-5 6-3
Mary Elliott-bye

There are errors in your doubles scores

(missing)
Preliminary Round

Annie Gray/Nellie Lloyd d. Lorna Bull/Mary Elliott 6-4 6-3

(missing or incorrect first names)
Quarterfinals

Floris St.George/Gwen Utz d. Daisy Garland/D Menzies 6-3 6-2 (*not Peg Menzies)

(Wrong score)
Semifinals

St.George/Utz d. Forbes Smith/Lance default (*and not 6-3 6-2-see link to newspaper article mentioning default.)


Missing first names for the following in mixed doubles:

Gwen Utz/Harold Utz-bye
Sylvia Lance/Stewart Henderson d. Mary Elliott/Jack Clemenger 6-0 6-0
Marjorie Mountain/Rupert Wertheim d. Lorna Bull/Keith Poulton 3-6 6-4 6-3
Hazel Webber/Arthur Yencken d. Minnie Goodman/Bruce Dive 6-0 9-7

Esna Boyd/John Hawks d. Syd Carr/Dudley Bullough 6-4 6-0
Mall Molesworth/Leslie Baker d. Mitchell/Prosper Sandral 6-1 7-5
Jessie Watson/E Jordan d. Grace Paterson/William Sheehan 6-4 6-3
Annie Gray/Percy Lane d. Floris St. George/Frank Peach 8-6 5-7 10-8

and finally note:

The official site has Lorna Utz. It is wrong. It is Gwen (Gwendolyn). There were two Utz's. Lorna Utz (nee Bull-listed in the 1922 singles draw) was maried to Leslie Utz in 1924. Gwen (nee Chiplin) was married to her mixed partner H. S. "Barney" Utz. This is the pair that traveled to England and played Wimbledon in 1925. Major thanks go out to GeeTee for pointing this out.

Last edited by Rollo : Jan 30th, 2012 at 08:25 PM.
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Old Jan 30th, 2012, 05:52 PM   #79
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Re: the Grand Slam Record Book vol. 2

At any rate I think that's more than a single error/addition. Take a look and see what you think. I don't doubt that there will be errors/additions in what we are doing too-this is all ongoing work. The more we work together the more we will get closer to complete and accurate results.

I'm trying to go over results for one slam a week. You can look for other results here.

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=224499

Thanks Fantasio.
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Old Jan 31st, 2012, 07:27 PM   #80
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Re: the Grand Slam Record Book vol. 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
IAlso, note my intentions here (especially post 1).
http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=447550
With that in mind I'll start with the 1922 Australian Championships.
Extremely good job, I see. I stand corrected, "D. Menzies" included.
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Old Jan 31st, 2012, 08:44 PM   #81
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Re: the Grand Slam Record Book vol. 2

Quote:
Extremely good job, I see. I stand corrected, "D. Menzies" included.
Thanks Fantasio. Your own work has corrected of a lot of my errors, so keep up the good job.
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Old Feb 2nd, 2012, 09:33 PM   #82
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Re: the Grand Slam Record Book vol. 2

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Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
Jessie Watson/EDWARD Jordan d. Grace Paterson/William Sheehan 6-4 6-3
Another detail.
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Old Jun 15th, 2012, 12:49 AM   #83
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Re: the Grand Slam Record Book vol. 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasio View Post
In the new Elo rankings after Australian 2012, Kvitova went from 59th to 47th, just after Ivanovic. No other variations among the first 60 players.
No variations in the Elo rankings after Roland Garros.
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Old Jun 23rd, 2012, 01:50 AM   #84
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Re: the Grand Slam Record Book vol. 2

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Originally Posted by tennisvideos View Post
All very interesting but highly subjective IMO esp when comparing opposition - Doris Hart and Anne Jones, for example, were both great players IMO and probably highly underrated by most. And to only factor in the slams is very limiting - years at #1, career singles winning % and tournament wins should also factor in there somewhere.

Happy to see it gives Seles her due but even I, a huge fan, could never rate her above Connolly, Court, Navratilova and Evert.

Still, an interesting perspective.
I AGREE! I like stats to, but lately here and on the men's forum, things have become a bit too much. One has to rate eras separately and judge a players greatness on their total career stats. Therefore, the greatest dominate players are: Lenglen, Wills, Marble and Connolly-for a few years, Court, Evert-Nav, Graf, Seles- for 2-3 years, then Graf again after the stabbing. Wills and Court probably had the longest span of domination. Lenglen was basically unbeatable for just about all of her career. Connolly dominated at the end of the peak years of: Hart,du Pont, Brough and Betz until her unfortunate accident. For me the eras are basically: 1915-1926, 1927-1939, 1940-1952, 1953-1960,1961-1973, 1974-1984,1985-1995, 1996-2000, 2001-2010.
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Old Jun 23rd, 2012, 02:14 AM   #85
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Re: the Grand Slam Record Book vol. 2

Stats that should be included are: Number of sanctioned tournaments won, slams won, % of tournaments won that a player competed in, the same for slams. The rest is really not that important, except for H-H against top players of an era.
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Old Jul 10th, 2012, 10:26 AM   #86
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Re: the Grand Slam Record Book vol. 2

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Originally Posted by Fantasio View Post
No variations in the Elo rankings after Roland Garros.
And no variations, again, after Wimbledon. But of course, after seven different players won the last seven major events, it's obvious there is no dominance at all, by any player. Unless Kvitova or Azarenka rise again, there won't be any variation for a long time.
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Old Jul 14th, 2012, 12:24 AM   #87
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Re: the Grand Slam Record Book vol. 2

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Originally Posted by tennisvideos View Post
But it's not Connolly's fault who her opponents were ... or that they weren't up to her level - and that is subjective anyway. I think some of her opponents are underrated.
Connoly's top opponents were Brough and Hart, who were just past their peak, especially Brough. I think Hart was the only player to beat her in an important tournament final, the Italian, during her best years. Perhaps she was a bit lucky in tennis, but very unlucky in life.
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Old Jul 14th, 2012, 08:41 AM   #88
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Re: the Grand Slam Record Book vol. 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrust View Post
I AGREE! I like stats to, but lately here and on the men's forum, things have become a bit too much. One has to rate eras separately and judge a players greatness on their total career stats. Therefore, the greatest dominate players are: Lenglen, Wills, Marble and Connolly-for a few years, Court, Evert-Nav, Graf, Seles- for 2-3 years, then Graf again after the stabbing. Wills and Court probably had the longest span of domination. Lenglen was basically unbeatable for just about all of her career. Connolly dominated at the end of the peak years of: Hart,du Pont, Brough and Betz until her unfortunate accident. For me the eras are basically: 1915-1926, 1927-1939, 1940-1952, 1953-1960,1961-1973, 1974-1984,1985-1995, 1996-2000, 2001-2010.
Yes great post Thrust
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Old Sep 21st, 2012, 12:18 PM   #89
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Re: the Grand Slam Record Book vol. 2

Any update on ELO rankings after the US Open? I wonder if Serena will creep into the Top ten as she deserves to be.
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Old Dec 31st, 2013, 01:52 AM   #90
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Re: the Grand Slam Record Book vol. 2

I would like to see this updated with the 2012 then the 2013 seasons completed. How far up does Serena rise?
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