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Old Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:16 PM   #3811
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Yes, it does seem silly for these critics to be telling her the complete opposite of what they told her a year ago.

"Speed" might be a part of it but I'm not convinced that is her biggest problem. When she was doing well she wasn't just fast, she also hit balls very deep and made her opponents hit very tough shots. I think there are two problems: 1) her footwork/positioning. She's just not getting into great position on too many of her returns. 2) her great anticipation (which was arguably the one big "weapon" she had over the rest of the tour) has largely disappeared. I don't necessarily believe it was all speed, at times Caroline just seemed like she could read her opponents mind and guess where their shots were going to land. That anticipation isn't something she can get back in practice/training sessions, it might be gone permanently.
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Old Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:34 PM   #3812
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Another major problem is that she didnt let her game develop by slowly improving different aspects.
She made serious changes, which affect your focus and affect your confidence.
The mental part of her game was good. She competed, made players beat her.

All these changes to the basic foundation of her game, from stances and mechanics and how aggressive she plays, they all lead to a player with no consistency and no confidence.

Making these changes seem crazy& self defeating, when she was #1, winning a lot of titles and making deep runs at every hardcourt major
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Old Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:38 PM   #3813
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

On the plus side it is kind of nice to hear people discussing her again. Once she lost the number one ranking she really dropped off under the radar.
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Old Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:47 PM   #3814
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
Yes, it does seem silly for these critics to be telling her the complete opposite of what they told her a year ago.

"Speed" might be a part of it but I'm not convinced that is her biggest problem. When she was doing well she wasn't just fast, she also hit balls very deep and made her opponents hit very tough shots. I think there are two problems: 1) her footwork/positioning. She's just not getting into great position on too many of her returns. 2) her great anticipation (which was arguably the one big "weapon" she had over the rest of the tour) has largely disappeared. I don't necessarily believe it was all speed, at times Caroline just seemed like she could read her opponents mind and guess where their shots were going to land. That anticipation isn't something she can get back in practice/training sessions, it might be gone permanently.
I don't think Caro was ever fast. She didn't seem to me to have great foot speed rather good foot speed.

That diminished ability to force her opponents to hit tough shots has been hurting her a lot as we now see a lot of players playing well/very well against her, many of them a lot above their usual levl.

I question how well a defensive game can really work if your movement isn't great and without her anticipation Caro's movement isn't great.
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Old Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:56 PM   #3815
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Martina
@14KatieBm14 most of all she needs to go back to what got her 2 the top in the 1st place- speed. She was a great mover&has lost that speed
Weren't you one of those who said she should completely change her game a little while ago?
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Old Sep 3rd, 2012, 07:34 PM   #3816
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Even if all the commentators who were criticising Caroline last year; now say this- most of all she needs to go back to what got her 2 the top in the 1st place-

Still, its up to Caroline to make smart choices in her career, including where she goes now. She's out of the top 10, holding no titles. Her last 3 majors are 3rd round loss, 1st round loss, 1st round loss.

She put herself there, her own choices (not a bad injury), and she has to decide how to get out of it
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Old Sep 3rd, 2012, 10:28 PM   #3817
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Oh, Martina. These kind of comments show how much of an 'expert' she really is. I wonder what would some people who criticised Caro for just 'running around' say about this quote.
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Old Sep 4th, 2012, 01:16 AM   #3818
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Originally Posted by marineblue View Post
Oh, Martina. These kind of comments show how much of an 'expert' she really is. I wonder what would some people who criticised Caro for just 'running around' say about this quote.
Well, she's one of the greatest players in history, so I'm sure she's a tennis expert. I don't think she's much of a Caro expert though. Perhaps that's the problem with some of these former greats, including the two Martina's and Chrissie. They think that whatever worked for them will or should also work for everyone else without taking into consideration that every player has a different set of skills and different strenghts and weaknesses which may be totally different from what theirs used to be.
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Old Sep 4th, 2012, 02:14 AM   #3819
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Martina wow but I will say Caro Speed has drop a bit, that something that gotta comeback, But I still like too see her get better on her serve and her Forehand, and coming inside the baseline besides staying way back behind the baseline.
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Old Sep 4th, 2012, 03:48 AM   #3820
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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She's lost her speed? That's all?

... but in the big scheme of things, I despise most of these 'experts'.

A year ago they were unanimously drumming on about, how Caro needed to change her game. Team Wozniacki followed through and Caro's had a freaking disasterous 12 month.

Now the 'expert' tells Caro to go back how she played 12 month ago. Ok, Grandmatilove only mentions 'speed', but the mere comment about going back to 'what she had' ...
Oh for fuck's sake. Many of us here have been saying that she should merely add some elements to her game but retain her main game which is built on a strong defense that did not give her opponents any room to breathe or any free points. But as much respect that I have for Martina her and the other critics were just dumb for not realizing that. And that's ultimately what's responsible for Caroline's poor play for the past year. She lost her greatest strengths.

Maybe Martina changed her mind cause she saw how well Kerber, Radwanska and Errani has done without a huge power game the past year. Maybe some of these fool commentators will start to realize that no, not every player needs to play the same way to succeed. I doubt it though.
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Old Sep 4th, 2012, 08:50 AM   #3821
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

In defence of Martina I don't believe she ever suggested that Caroline should completely abandon her core game. I would guess that most of Caroline's matches that Martina has seen would be at the majors where she has often had fairly one-sided losses. I can't recall exactly what Martina said but I believe it was basically that she needs to improve her offence if she is going to take the next step and start winning majors. Objectively looking at her slam losses that seems to be a very reasonable opinion. Caroline did fairly well at some of the majors but she always ran into someone with more firepower than her and she was unable to take control and turn those matches around. If she had more offensive weapons she would have had a better chance of winning some of those matches.

Ultimately, so far at least, Martina was correct. Caroline didn't have the game to win a major. You can be upset and disappointed that Caroline changed her game but no one made her do that. In the end it is not critics, fans or even her coaches (Piotr) that decide how she is going to play. Once she steps onto the court Caroline is all alone and she makes all the decisions. If she is given bad advice and takes it who is to blame? She's a big girl and she could have said "no."
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Old Sep 4th, 2012, 09:19 AM   #3822
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Actually I felt like Caro did have the game to win a major. It just needed some additions and she would've been a major threat.

I wish she didn't listen to those who said change your game, but I can't change that and neither can she. All she can do now is move forward.
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Old Sep 4th, 2012, 10:12 AM   #3823
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Originally Posted by JadeFox View Post
Actually I felt like Caro did have the game to win a major. It just needed some additions and she would've been a major threat.

I wish she didn't listen to those who said change your game, but I can't change that and neither can she. All she can do now is move forward.
The additions you speak of, would these include better offence? I just don't believe that Martina and a lot of her critics were 100% wrong. Of course she could have won a major with her "old" game, anything is possible, but it seems unlikely. It is impossible to say with any certainty but I do think she needed to adopt a more aggressive attitude, particularly on the big points, for her to win at the highest level. Fortune favours the brave and too often she played not to lose which didn't lead to her winning a slam.
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Old Sep 4th, 2012, 11:05 AM   #3824
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
The additions you speak of, would these include better offence? I just don't believe that Martina and a lot of her critics were 100% wrong. Of course she could have won a major with her "old" game, anything is possible, but it seems unlikely. It is impossible to say with any certainty but I do think she needed to adopt a more aggressive attitude, particularly on the big points, for her to win at the highest level. Fortune favours the brave and too often she played not to lose which didn't lead to her winning a slam.
You love to play devils advocate, don't you? ...

And of course critics weren't 100% wrong. When is anything ever 100% right or wrong? ... Almost never.

The key point people - incl myself - are making here is, critics were all over Caroline 12 month ago telling her to change her game. Some even said 'completely change her game'.

And now we have one of these vocal critics telling Caroline to get back to how it was ...

But that's the key point about critics. They just talk. TV pundits all know better. No doubt Martina Navratilova knows about tennis and winning, but perhaps she's not the foremost expert on everything 'Caroline Wozniacki'.

Not all tennis players fit into the GM (and by most pundits) loved ball bashing cookie cutter mold.
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Old Sep 4th, 2012, 11:29 AM   #3825
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Well, if you want to be an optimist Caroline now has a perfect opportunity to try a middle ground, which I think is what most, maybe all, of us thought she should attempt. At this point she really hasn't got much to lose. She does not have the pressure of being number one with no slam and, for now, she's not in the top ten and really fallen under the radar. Now is a great time for her to really work on her game, focus on what does work, discard what doesn't and try to get herself back to where she was and, hopefully, even better. I just hope that she chooses a direction and sticks with it for a while and gives it a chance to work.
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