French Open Ratings - Page 12 - TennisForum.com
TennisForum.com   Wagerline.com MensTennisForums.com TennisUniverse.com
TennisForum.com is the premier Women's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!
Reply

Old Jun 14th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #166
country flag denny5576
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,140
denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of
Re: French Open Ratings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post

Ultimately, your tennis is what makes you famous.
Very, very, very wrong conclusion.
With such understanding of the term "famous" it is clear why you underestimated Sharapova.
denny5576 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old Jun 14th, 2012, 08:44 PM   #167
country flag denny5576
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,140
denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of denny5576 has much to be proud of
Re: French Open Ratings

Quote:
Originally Posted by rochelle100 View Post
I'm a Sharapova fan, but she certainly isn't a worldwide superstar that some of her fans claim her to be. Well, not in England anyway.
Do not ask tennis fans about that. Read studies which many companies did. You should trust experts, not fans. Then you'll learn Sharapova is the only one global, worldwide female sport star.
It is a fact like 2+2=4
denny5576 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 14th, 2012, 09:46 PM   #168
country flag Excelscior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 10,773
Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute
Re: French Open Ratings

Quote:
Originally Posted by rochelle100 View Post
I'm a Sharapova fan, but she certainly isn't a worldwide superstar that some of her fans claim her to be. Well, not in England anyway.
You can certainly argue when the William's sisters first came on the scene, they had far more impact, notoriety and fame, than Sharapova's impact, even after winning that oft talked about Wimbledon vs Serena. They're not even comparable.

The Williams sisters were phenomenon's, along with their rivalry with Martina Hingis. It was great for tennis (interest, ratings, buzz, attendance), and sports on a whole. Those were the days man.

Even now, when the Williams sisters show up an event (more so Serena than Venus), they suck up all the life, buzz, predictions and coverage. Think about it. It's been this way despite the fact that they're basically part time players with other interest.

I'm sure if you were to ask the average sports, non sports and tennis fans who are Venus and Serena vs Sharapova, more would know who Serena and Venus are, than Sharapova. People who are into models and fashion, would know probably know who Sharapova is more. Yes. But the first group I mentioned is the larger part of the population. Most people are "casual" something, and "non sports fans", as opposed to people into fashion and Glamour. Let's be honest.

We also have to remember, the Williams have chosen not to be in the spotlight, and subsequently reducing their endorsement potential (by reducing their tennis schedules) for the past several years. Nonetheless, these two are relevant publicity wise every time they show up, though they haven't put the work in the past several years like Maria and the other players have (along with the accompanying results). That says a lot, if they did hang around and competed on a high level, what would their fan interest be then?

I think Sharapova has a small (compared to other athletes), but very passionate, dedicated fan base. While more casual fans and non-fans actually know who the Williams sisters are, due to their legacies and impact in the sport.

But hey, people can believe what they want to believe.

Last edited by Excelscior : Jun 14th, 2012 at 09:59 PM.
Excelscior is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 14th, 2012, 10:02 PM   #169
country flag Charlatan
Diabolical
 
Charlatan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NY
Posts: 6,322
Charlatan has a reputation beyond repute Charlatan has a reputation beyond repute Charlatan has a reputation beyond repute Charlatan has a reputation beyond repute Charlatan has a reputation beyond repute Charlatan has a reputation beyond repute Charlatan has a reputation beyond repute Charlatan has a reputation beyond repute Charlatan has a reputation beyond repute Charlatan has a reputation beyond repute Charlatan has a reputation beyond repute
Re: French Open Ratings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
I think Sharapova has a small (compared to other athletes), but very passionate, dedicated fan base.


classic Excelscior
Charlatan is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 14th, 2012, 10:10 PM   #170
country flag lefty24
Senior Member
 
lefty24's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,608
lefty24 has a reputation beyond repute lefty24 has a reputation beyond repute lefty24 has a reputation beyond repute lefty24 has a reputation beyond repute lefty24 has a reputation beyond repute lefty24 has a reputation beyond repute lefty24 has a reputation beyond repute lefty24 has a reputation beyond repute lefty24 has a reputation beyond repute lefty24 has a reputation beyond repute lefty24 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: French Open Ratings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
I think Sharapova has a small (compared to other athletes), but very passionate, dedicated fan base. While more casual fans and non-fans actually know who the Williams sisters are, due to their legacies and impact in the sport.

But hey, people can believe what they want to believe.
She has 7 million fb fans(she's only behind Fed and Nadal) and is the highest paid female athlete EVER.
__________________
MAR1.A SHARAPOVA
http://i46.tinypic.com/29z37tv.png
lefty24 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 14th, 2012, 10:15 PM   #171
country flag manu32
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,544
manu32 has a reputation beyond repute manu32 has a reputation beyond repute manu32 has a reputation beyond repute manu32 has a reputation beyond repute manu32 has a reputation beyond repute manu32 has a reputation beyond repute manu32 has a reputation beyond repute manu32 has a reputation beyond repute manu32 has a reputation beyond repute manu32 has a reputation beyond repute manu32 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: French Open Ratings

what a bad GS ....
manu32 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 14th, 2012, 11:19 PM   #172
country flag Towanda
Senior Member
 
Towanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 896
Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future
Re: French Open Ratings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
I think Sharapova has a small (compared to other athletes), but very passionate, dedicated fan base. While more casual fans and non-fans actually know who the Williams sisters are, due to their legacies and impact in the sport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty24 View Post
She has 7 million fb fans(she's only behind Fed and Nadal) and is the highest paid female athlete EVER.
What part of "compared to other athletes" do you not understand?

I looked up just a few popular athletes I could think of:

Cristiano Ronaldo - over 45 million facebook fans
Michael Jordan - over 19 million facebook fans
LeBron James - over 10.5 million facebook fans
Kobe Bryant - over 13 million facebook fans

and of course you've already mentioned:
Roger Federer - almost 11 million facebook fans
Rafa Nadal - almost 11 million facebook fans


The thing that I really notice when looking at these numbers is that, given that it has been stated in this thread that Sharapova is a global superstar, and given that basketball is most popular in the U.S. (I believe someone also stated that basketball stars are only really popular in America), isn't it odd that people who should only be popular in America have a significantly higher number of facebook followers than the person who is supposed to be a global superstar? And you can't say that that is because tennis is not that popular. This isn't about the popularity of tennis, it is about Sharapova's status as a global superstar. Ronaldo's number of followers truly indicate that he is a global superstar. Sharapova's, not so much.

Another thing that I think is interesting is that earlier, the number of web searches for Sharapova were used to prove that she is more popular than Nadal. Now we see that Nadal has about 50% more facebook followers than Sharapova. So what is the true indicator of popularity? Is it the number of web searches? Is it the number of facebook fans? Is it the amount of money that person can make in endorsements? How do you reconcile using web searches as proof that she is more popular than Nadal, but then you freely admit that Nadal has a lot more facebook followers?

Or do we just leave it up to a very passionate fanbase to claim that someone is a global superstar? Those of us who live in areas where Sharapova is not a superstar know that she is not the superstar that many argue she is. But we will never be able to convince the more delusional fans of that. If it makes you feel good to think that she is a global superstar, have at it. It doesn't really hurt anyone else that you are delsusional.
Towanda is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 14th, 2012, 11:29 PM   #173
country flag Jimmy Dragoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 223
Jimmy Dragoon is a glorious beacon of light Jimmy Dragoon is a glorious beacon of light Jimmy Dragoon is a glorious beacon of light Jimmy Dragoon is a glorious beacon of light Jimmy Dragoon is a glorious beacon of light Jimmy Dragoon is a glorious beacon of light Jimmy Dragoon is a glorious beacon of light Jimmy Dragoon is a glorious beacon of light Jimmy Dragoon is a glorious beacon of light Jimmy Dragoon is a glorious beacon of light Jimmy Dragoon is a glorious beacon of light
Re: French Open Ratings

An aside of sorts,but why are the earnings for men more strongly correlated to their results? R.Fed and R. Nadal have the success to support their earnings,but Maria doesn't. R.Fed and Nadal actually drive ratings and attendance WORLDWIDE, but Maria has not demonstrated that power.It irks me that a woman's earning potential is more correlated to the degree that she is an object of desire of men and sexually objectified. I look forward to the day that the more successful a female is in her respective sport the greater her earning potential.
Jimmy Dragoon is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15th, 2012, 12:14 AM   #174
country flag NashaMasha
Senior Member
 
NashaMasha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 8,371
NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute
Re: French Open Ratings

Quote:
I looked up just a few popular athletes I could think of:

Cristiano Ronaldo - over 45 million facebook fans
Michael Jordan - over 19 million facebook fans
LeBron James - over 10.5 million facebook fans
Kobe Bryant - over 13 million facebook fans

and of course you've already mentioned:
Roger Federer - almost 11 million facebook fans
Rafa Nadal - almost 11 million facebook fans
I'm not sure but Chrissie Ronaldo is not female , I don't see anyone famale in your list

By the way, Facebook is not as global, as it seems to Americans. In Russia vk.com is the main social network , which has ,i guess, 10 or even 50 times more russian followers that Facebook
__________________
Maria Sharapova
Career Grand Slam Winner
Wimbledon 2004 ~ US Open 2006 ~ Australian Open 2008 ~ French Open 2012 and 2014

WTA Championships 2004
London Olympics silver medallist

32 WTA titles , including 12 Tier I titles
21 weeks #1 player
NashaMasha is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15th, 2012, 12:33 AM   #175
country flag Towanda
Senior Member
 
Towanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 896
Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future
Re: French Open Ratings

Quote:
Originally Posted by NashaMasha View Post
I'm not sure but Chrissie Ronaldo is not female , I don't see anyone famale in your list

By the way, Facebook is not as global, as it seems to Americans. In Russia vk.com is the main social network , which has ,i guess, 10 or even 50 times more russian followers that Facebook
I was following the discussion in which it was stated that Sharapova is not as popular as other athletes, and the counter argument that referenced her 7 million facebook fans. I did not take "other athletes" to mean only other female athletes. I think we have to keep in mind here that many are claiming that Sharapova is a global icon, well-known and beloved by people in every country, including non-tennis fans. If someone is truly a global icon, we should not have to compare them only to people of their own gender.

I did not know that facebook is not global, perhaps because most of friends on other countries use facebook. My point still stands. Regardless of what the global make-up of facebook users is, it still is fact that there are other athletes with significantly more facebook fans than Sharapova. I think the best comparison is Ronaldo, who is a global superstar. Sharapova's 7 million facebook fans are impressive for sure, but that does not make her a global superstar. And, given that much of this conversation has revolved around her popularity in the U.S., if we assume that most facebook users are in the U.S., again we see that Ronaldo is much more well-known in the U.S. than Sharapova.
Towanda is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15th, 2012, 12:38 AM   #176
country flag Excelscior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 10,773
Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute
Re: French Open Ratings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Towanda View Post
What part of "compared to other athletes" do you not understand?

I looked up just a few popular athletes I could think of:

Cristiano Ronaldo - over 45 million facebook fans
Michael Jordan - over 19 million facebook fans
LeBron James - over 10.5 million facebook fans
Kobe Bryant - over 13 million facebook fans

and of course you've already mentioned:
Roger Federer - almost 11 million facebook fans
Rafa Nadal - almost 11 million facebook fans


The thing that I really notice when looking at these numbers is that, given that it has been stated in this thread that Sharapova is a global superstar, and given that basketball is most popular in the U.S. (I believe someone also stated that basketball stars are only really popular in America), isn't it odd that people who should only be popular in America have a significantly higher number of facebook followers than the person who is supposed to be a global superstar? And you can't say that that is because tennis is not that popular. This isn't about the popularity of tennis, it is about Sharapova's status as a global superstar. Ronaldo's number of followers truly indicate that he is a global superstar. Sharapova's, not so much.

Another thing that I think is interesting is that earlier, the number of web searches for Sharapova were used to prove that she is more popular than Nadal. Now we see that Nadal has about 50% more facebook followers than Sharapova. So what is the true indicator of popularity? Is it the number of web searches? Is it the number of facebook fans? Is it the amount of money that person can make in endorsements? How do you reconcile using web searches as proof that she is more popular than Nadal, but then you freely admit that Nadal has a lot more facebook followers?

Or do we just leave it up to a very passionate fanbase to claim that someone is a global superstar? Those of us who live in areas where Sharapova is not a superstar know that she is not the superstar that many argue she is. But we will never be able to convince the more delusional fans of that. If it makes you feel good to think that she is a global superstar, have at it. It doesn't really hurt anyone else that you are delsusional.
Thank You.

The irony is, there may be people like Usain Bolt, Pele, Muhammad Ali, and Tiger Woods (just to name a few), who are far more famous, and who have done far more for their respective sports than Sharapova, though they may have less Facebook fans.

Facebook (like Internet searches) only shows how young, intense, or what type of fan base a particular athlete has, more so than how actually famous they are.

For example, Sharapova may have a more intense fan base than Muhammad Ali at the moment. But she's certainly (even at this time) is not more famous. And DEFINITELY NEVER had the fame and cultural impact on an entire society (in sports, beyond sports, in and out boxing, everywhere), in America and world wide like Ali did. That's not even debatable, even by the most delusional, out of touch Sharapova zealot. And I bet you she may have more facebook fans than him. So we always have to keep these things in perspective.
Excelscior is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15th, 2012, 12:53 AM   #177
country flag Excelscior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 10,773
Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute
Re: French Open Ratings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Dragoon View Post
An aside of sorts,but why are the earnings for men more strongly correlated to their results? R.Fed and R. Nadal have the success to support their earnings,but Maria doesn't. R.Fed and Nadal actually drive ratings and attendance WORLDWIDE, but Maria has not demonstrated that power.It irks me that a woman's earning potential is more correlated to the degree that she is an object of desire of men and sexually objectified. I look forward to the day that the more successful a female is in her respective sport the greater her earning potential.

You have basically stated the real/overall point.

Sharapova's earnings, is akin to a fashion models. There are a lot of fashions models who earn a boat load of money, but no one knows who they are, unless you follow the fashion industry, or their dating an athlete or famous actor.

Whereas Nadal, Fed, even Jo Wilfreed Tsonga and Monfis, Usain Bolt, Tiger Woods, Serena and Martina Hingis (back in the day), Steffi and Monica, Michael Jordan, and many others, actually made their sport more popular, through better ratings, better attendance, more coverage and buzz in the collective public concious. Sharapova hasn't and has never done that. She only earns money for herself, but has not made her sport more popular, watched or talked about with the general public.

That's the point so many here miss. And it's not so much to beat up on Sharapova. Not at all. But more to qualify the difference between her earnings and other athletes. These people were famous, both in and out of their sports. Sharapova is neither. Like I said, she's more akin to a fashion model. She makes money, and she's known to a small but intense group. But she's not universally famous, by a large, average group of people or non sports fans, like so many of those athletes that have transcended their sports. Sharapova has not.

If she was, where's the increased/record attendance and ratings when she plays the past 8 years, and now, like so many other athletes mentioned and not mentioned have done?

Last edited by Excelscior : Jun 15th, 2012 at 12:58 AM.
Excelscior is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15th, 2012, 01:08 AM   #178
country flag Towanda
Senior Member
 
Towanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 896
Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future Towanda has a brilliant future
Re: French Open Ratings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
Thank You.

The irony is, there may be people like Usain Bolt, Pele, Muhammad Ali, and Tiger Woods (just to name a few), who are far more famous, and who have done far more for their respective sports than Sharapova, though they may have less Facebook fans.

Facebook (like Internet searches) only shows how young, intense, or what type of fan base a particular athlete has, more so than how actually famous they are.

For example, Sharapova may have a more intense fan base than Muhammad Ali at the moment. But she's certainly (even at this time) is not more famous. And DEFINITELY NEVER had the fame and cultural impact on an entire society (in sports, beyond sports, in and out boxing, everywhere), in America and world wide like Ali did. That's not even debatable, even by the most delusional, out of touch Sharapova zealot. And I bet you she may have more facebook fans than him. So we always have to keep these things in perspective.

All great points.

You mentioned her type of fanbase:

It has been argued in this thread that number of web searches reflect popularity. While there are a large number of web searches for Sharapova, the top ones are: hot maria sharapova; maria sharapova pics; kournikova sharapova; photos maria sharapova; maria sharapova pictures; maria sharapova video; fotos maria sharapova; maria sharapova boyfriend; and, maria sharapova bikini. I think that makes it obvious what her fanbase is like. Of course she does have some normal fans who are interested in her tennis, but as far as web searches goes, it is the horny little boys who dominate.

I've looked up several other players, and the top searches for them are almost entirely tennis-related. Even Ana Ivanovic, who is also quite attractive, has the majority of her searches related to tennis. Not one of the top searches for Sharapova has anything to do with tennis. This really underscores your discussion of having a large fanbase vs. being famous, and her lack of a cultural impact. It is actually kind of sad that all a large number of her fans care about is how she looks. I am glad for her that she has some fans who are legitimate tennis fans, and like her primarily for her game. You know the rest will bail if/when she gets older, gains weight, becomes less attractive, etc.
Towanda is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15th, 2012, 01:27 AM   #179
country flag Excelscior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 10,773
Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute Excelscior has a reputation beyond repute
Re: French Open Ratings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Towanda View Post
All great points.

You mentioned her type of fanbase:

It has been argued in this thread that number of web searches reflect popularity. While there are a large number of web searches for Sharapova, the top ones are: hot maria sharapova; maria sharapova pics; kournikova sharapova; photos maria sharapova; maria sharapova pictures; maria sharapova video; fotos maria sharapova; maria sharapova boyfriend; and, maria sharapova bikini. I think that makes it obvious what her fanbase is like. Of course she does have some normal fans who are interested in her tennis, but as far as web searches goes, it is the horny little boys who dominate.

I've looked up several other players, and the top searches for them are almost entirely tennis-related. Even Ana Ivanovic, who is also quite attractive, has the majority of her searches related to tennis. Not one of the top searches for Sharapova has anything to do with tennis. This really underscores your discussion of having a large fanbase vs. being famous, and her lack of a cultural impact. It is actually kind of sad that all a large number of her fans care about is how she looks. I am glad for her that she has some fans who are legitimate tennis fans, and like her primarily for her game. You know the rest will bail if/when she gets older, gains weight, becomes less attractive, etc.
Bingo!

That is why she does nothing for her sport, nor transcends it, as so many other athletes do.

As you just cited, most of her fame is regulated to people who are interested in those type of things with her, and not her tennis (at least up until this point).

Once again, her fame is mostly derived from an intense, and rather peculiar fan base (as you just demonstrated), as opposed to being known by the general public as other more famous, transcendent athletes, who do more for their respective sports.

It's nothing against Sharapova. It's just the facts/the reality.
Excelscior is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15th, 2012, 01:58 AM   #180
country flag ziros
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 751
ziros is a splendid one to behold ziros is a splendid one to behold ziros is a splendid one to behold ziros is a splendid one to behold ziros is a splendid one to behold ziros is a splendid one to behold ziros is a splendid one to behold ziros is a splendid one to behold ziros is a splendid one to behold ziros is a splendid one to behold ziros is a splendid one to behold
Re: French Open Ratings

OMG you guys still going at this? I live in NZ,when she came here,it was massive news,like a popstar coming here and the attendances at the WTA tournament were at record highs. And most people I know know who she is,and we're not a tennis country by any means
ziros is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios