[gaviotabr]

Originally Posted by Cajka

If I counted it correctly, so far this season she had 110 aces in 32 matches.

In 2010 it was similar, it was 108 aces in 32 matches (that includes USO ).

I probably made some mistake while counting, but it was obviously really close. Honestly, you can check all the stats, there's no one single stat that would prove that her serve was better in 2009 or 2010. Maybe you liked her serve then more than you this serve, but it wasn't more effective. I can say that the match against Sara was Ana's worst serving performance this season, but that's it. I won't say that her serve is bad now, it just isn't. There's a room for improvement, but her serve is still top 5. There are maybe 3 or 4 women who have a better serve.

Again, we can agree to disagree. I checked the stats and I think the stats pretty much prove that serve is worse now. Slower, same winning percentage with a better groundgame. Since she improved her groundgame, if serve was as effective, her winning percentage should be higher and it just isn't. I could also say you just like it better now, maybe because toss doesn't look as bad..

at this serve being top 5.. forever. I can think of about 20 players who serve better.

[Cajka]

Originally Posted by gaviotabr

Again, we can agree to disagree. I checked the stats and I think the stats pretty much prove that serve is worse now. Slower, same winning percentage with a better groundgame. Since she improved her groundgame, if serve was as effective, her winning percentage should be higher and it just isn't. I could also say you just like it better now, maybe because toss doesn't look as bad..

at this serve being top 5.. forever. I can think of about 20 players who serve better.

Name them.

[gaviotabr]

Originally Posted by Cajka

Name them.

Serena.
Venus.
Stosur.
Sharapova.
Kvitova.
Hradecka.
Barthel.
Goerges.
Petrova.
Lisicki.

Ok.. 10 out of top of my mind. Obviously Ana's groudgame tops the groundgames of some in this list.

[fANAtic]

Her serve was the reason why she lost. I don't know what's happening with that shot, she always says she's working hard on it. Maybe it will just explode one of these days. :wishfulthinking:

[gaviotabr]

Originally Posted by fANAtic

Her serve was the reason why she lost. I don't know what's happening with that shot, she always says she's working hard on it. Maybe it will just explode one of these days. :wishfulthinking:

Wishful thinking..

Ana had 2 service games in which she had game points only to get broken in that second set.. if only she had taken 1 of these game points!

[Cajka]

Originally Posted by gaviotabr

Serena.
Venus.
Stosur.
Sharapova.
Kvitova.
Hradecka.
Barthel.
Goerges.
Petrova.
Lisicki.

Ok.. 10 out of top of my mind. Obviously Ana's groudgame tops the groundgames of some in this list.

Stosur - yes

Sharapova - yes

Serena - yes

this Venus - not really, she can still hit some great first serves, but for the most of the time it's bad. It should be more effective on grass still

Kvitova - depending on surface too, this season it wasn't great at all, her serve, just like the rest of her game, is too inconsistent.

Hradecka can serve well, but it clicks once a year. This year it was in Madrid. For the most of the time, it's not good enough.

Barthel had an amazing serving performances in Stuttgart, her serve is generally good, but it's not consistent.

Goerges - faster serve than Ana's, but too inconsistent.

Petrova - used to have a better serve than Ana, but it's not even the shadow of what it used to be.

Lisicki - 1st serve very fast, when it's on, it's brilliant, but it's usually off. The second serve is hideous, worse than Aga's.

[gaviotabr]

Originally Posted by Cajka

Stosur - yes

Sharapova - yes

Serena - yes

this Venus - not really, she can still hit some great first serve, but for the most of the time it's bad. It should be more effective on grass still

Kvitova - depending on surface too, this season it wasn't great at all, her serve, just like the rest of her game, is too inconsistent.

Hradecka can serve well, but it clicks once a year. This year it was in Madrid. For the most of the time, it's not good enough.

Barthel had an amazing serving performances in Stuttgart, her serve is generally good, but it's not consistent.

Goerges - faster serve than Ana's, but too inconsistent.

Petrova - used to have a better serve than Ana, but it's not even the shadow of what it used to be.

Lisicki - 1st serve very fast, when it's on, it's brilliant, but it's usually off. The second serve is hideous, worse than Aga's.

You have to look at serve alone, not at serve + groundgame. All these serves are way better than Ana's current serve.. the groundgame is what can be inconsistent for the likes of Venus, Lisicki, Hradecka, Goerges, Kvitova..

[Cajka]

Originally Posted by gaviotabr

You have to look at serve alone, not at serve + groundgame. All these serves are way better than Ana's current serve.. the groundgame is what can be inconsistent for the likes of Venus, Lisicki, Hradecka, Goerges, Kvitova..

OK, in that case, Hradecka has a better serve than Sharapova. When she has a good serving day, she can serve better than Masha. But, my point is that in 80% of matches she doesn't serve the way she did in Madrid. Also, her ground game can be good in some matches, not only her serve. Same with Lisicki and Julia. Lisicki has a huge amount of power in both her serve and groundstrokes, but just like groundstrokes, her serve is inconsistent. Julia too. She hits the fh harder than Ana now, I'm sure about that. But I don't think that her fh is better than Ana's. When it's off, it's awful. And it's off too often.

And having a good serve is what saves you when the rest of your game doesn't work. Venus won the match against Ana just because her serve was great in 2nd and 3rd set (especially on break points), that serve would be enough for Aga too, but she couldn't find that serve the next day. In fact, that's what happens in most of her matches. We couldn't see the match against Kvitova, but before 3rd set her serve stats were very poor, against Wozniak the serve was very bad, but Wozniak choked, in the first set against Ana that serve was awful. Against Kerber and Aga on clay it was bad. It was very decent in Rome, but it was a mess again in Paris.

[gaviotabr]

Originally Posted by Cajka

OK, in that case, Hradecka has a better serve than Sharapova. When she has a good serving day, she can serve better than Masha. But, my point is that in 80% of matches she doesn't serve the way she did in Madrid. Also, her ground game can be good in some matches, not only her serve. Same with Lisicki and Julia. Lisicki has a huge amount of power in both her serve and groundstrokes, but just like groundstrokes, her serve is inconsistent. Julia too. She hits the fh harder than Ana now, I'm sure about that. But I don't think that her fh is better than Ana's. When it's off, it's awful. And it's off too often.

And having a good serve is what saves you when the rest of your game doesn't work. Venus won the match against Ana just because her serve was great in 2nd and 3rd set (especially on break points), that serve would be enough for Aga too, but she couldn't find that serve the next day. In fact, that's what happens in most of her matches. We couldn't see the match against Kvitova, but before 3rd set her serve stats were very poor, against Wozniak the serve was very bad, but Wozniak choked, in the first set against Ana that serve was awful. Against Kerber and Aga on clay it was bad. It was very decent in Rome, but it was a mess again in Paris.

Ok.. Im not looking at ground game at all.. I think I said Ana has a better ground game than some of these players.. and everyone has off days.. but looking at serve only, all those serves are better than Ana's current serve. Then, when returned the serve and starts groundgame, a lot of these players are very erractic.. But serve alone is a lot better than Ana's.

Obviously, serve alone is worth nothing if you don't have a ground game.. it can only take you so far.. otherwise Hradecka would be top 10. Her serve is usually great, but her groundgame just isn't. It wasn't really the serve that clicked in Madrid, it was her groundgame, it withstood rallies more than it usually does.

All you said just proves my point with the stats.. Ana has a more consistent, arguably better groundgame now than she had at 09/early10/11, yet she has same winning percentage on her serve. Why? Because her serve is worse.. so things balance themselves.. If her serve was better, it would add to a higher winning percentage, and it doesn't. Ana is not super fast or has super high 1st serve percentage like Aga or Woz or Errani to win without depending on the serve, no matter how improved her groundgame is.