[améliemomo]

it sucks to wake up and see such stats and her lack of consistency

Panova is a beatable player, she should have taken more opportunities to close out this match. Yes that sucks cause she doesnt know how to "kill" a match

[Corswandt]

Originally Posted by Geoffrey91

Lost 64 64...

Caroline had 11 break points but oncly converted 1 of them. Actually Panova had only 3 break points but still managed to convert all.

[HowardH]

Thanks to the uploader, fantic. Some points from Caroline vs Panova.

[améliemomo]

thanks Howard

still think Panova has nothing to hurt her. And her serve should be improved. Her toss is so high

[Jason A.]

Originally Posted by Corswandt

LOL! Listen, Corswandt, you know how good she can be, so you're not gonna surrender anytime soon. If people like Pierce and Mauresmo can fight through the nerves and make it up to the pointy end of the sport, so can Caroline. She's young; she can learn. Take heart, my friend!

[HowardH]

Originally Posted by améliemomo

thanks Howard

still think Panova has nothing to hurt her. And her serve should be improved. Her toss is so high

She has a tremendous but raw game. How can McHale already be a tour regular while Caroline can hardly win a match?

Her toss has some subtle control issues, despite it not being as obvious as Ivanovic's or Dementieva's issues. She doesn't lose the toss to the right but it is clear that it often doesn't really go where she aims it. As a result she struggles to get quite the right toss for the serve she wants- it's hard for her to get the first serve toss to go into the court, she ends up tossing it almost like a second serve a lot of the time. She has to catch the toss a fair amount- far less than other players who struggle with the toss, but definitely more than the average pro.

Having a bad toss makes one prone to double faulting under pressure, and in general helps to make one feel more nervous. She can serve pretty big so if she improved the toss her serve would become a pretty good weapon. Maybe she would even feel more confident serving on big points, which is a pretty big problem for her right now.

I would like to know whether the toss is a problem in practice or only in matches.

[améliemomo]

Hi Howard, happy to read you in Caroline Topic, always very smart post

as for the comparison with Mc Hale, it's true one is more successful than the other but one is more talented too(caro). It takes more time to set a more complicated game and have results with it. Caroline is more an "offensive" player who likes to attack with powerful shots. McHale game is more mature, safer too. She can bring back a lot of balls. I think her serve should be improved cause it is not normal to not have total control of your serve because of your toss. She has to make it shorter and more simple. Look at Federer one, it is pure model to copy.
she must improve it to make big things.

[HowardH]

Originally Posted by améliemomo

Hi Howard, happy to read you in Caroline Topic, always very smart post

as for the comparison with Mc Hale, it's true one is more successful than the other but one is more talented too(caro). It takes more time to set a more complicated game and have results with it. Caroline is more an "offensive" player who likes to attack with powerful shots. McHale game is more mature, safer too. She can bring back a lot of balls. I think her serve should be improved cause it is not normal to not have total control of your serve because of your toss. She has to make it shorter and more simple. Look at Federer one, it is pure model to copy.
she must improve it to make big things.

Thanks Amira.

It's true, McHale's game is simpler. I never regarded McHale as being all that talented, but she's a hard worker who is making the most of her game. Caro seems to have ability but is struggling to put together her game- she can do most things, serve, return, fh, bh, movement around the court, net play. That does increase the complexity of the game.

However, if Caro does not "make it" as a top pro she will definitely be among the most talented players to never break through.

Caro's toss is a bit high but not the highest I have seen. It's not that accurate though. She has a good arsenal of spin serves, including a pretty nice kick serve, so she covers those bad tosses and makes it seem like she intended to hit a kick serve or whatever, but I'm still convinced she is not sure about her toss. Federer has a good toss and a nice serve, one of the best of his generation. However, I would regard his toss and serve as a slightly inferior version of Sampras' toss and serve. The two great players actually have very similar serves- similar stance, toss etc. They toss smoothly and directly to the contact point without having to toss too high. Both of these men are excellent models to copy when it comes to the serve. However Caro uses the "step together" footwork, not the platform stance that Sampras and Federer use. So maybe she would need to study a great server with the same kind of footwork- Krajicek, Ivanisevic perhaps? One thing all these really great servers usually have in common is that the toss is accurate and not much higher than necessary.

Possibly the most important thing is just to practise and find an individual, personal way to make the toss go smoothly into the right place. In my opinion all great servers have pretty consistent tosses. And many players who struggle with nerves have difficulty tossing. So solving the toss would be a good step forward for her, although it still might not completely solve her inability to play big points well. It's proved impossible for many players in the past though. But her case is unusual, as I said, most players with bad tosses lose the toss to the right, whereas Caro seems to lose it left or backwards, causing her to lose balance. Maybe this is easier to solve than the case where you lose the toss to the right?

What I'm really curious about is- did she have this kind of problem with big points before the match with Sharapova? Or did the Sharapova match, where she lost big point after big point in the second half of the match, create a mental hangover?

[améliemomo]

I think she always had some difficuties with her toss and having big striker such as sharapova returning your serve doesnt help for sure. But dont think it is linked to mental issues. You said it, she's able to make great kicked serves even on big points. Her main goal is to be a complete player, so many things to work and focus on. Serve is a part of it but not all. She has to add some versatility in her game, work on slices,drop shot, coming to the net more often.

it can take some time indeed. Hopefully she wont be a waisted talent. The french tennis is already a total crap right now so hopefully she'll make some good things and become an excellent player at the top.

[tedlesurfeur]

Originally Posted by Iceland

Since that Sharapova collapse, her problems to take opportunities have been worsening with every tournament.

Since their match in RG? I thought that Caroline would actually take a lot of positive things from that match. I remember telling myself "this girl's ready".
Why do you think it went the other way? I haven't followed her since then.

[Iceland]

Originally Posted by tedlesurfeur

Since their match in RG? I thought that Caroline would actually take a lot of positive things from that match. I remember telling myself "this girl's ready".
Why do you think it went the other way? I haven't followed her since then.

Because I think she always was under the radar before. Back then people only talked about Kristina. Getting so close to beating a world champion and in the end failing to do it put an enormous pressure on her, not to mention all the Murray & Navratilova comments on her being the next number 1.
She always had troubles to finish off matches but she clearly has taken her nervousness to another extent since that.

Funny thing to see that she blew up occasions in most of the matches she has lost in recent months.

[tedlesurfeur]

Originally Posted by Iceland

Because I think she always was under the radar before. Back then people only talked about Kristina. Getting so close to beating a world champion and in the end failing to do it put an enormous pressure on her, not to mention all the Murray & Navratilova comments on her being the next number 1.
She always had troubles to finish off matches but she clearly has taken her nervousness to another extent since that.

Funny thing to see that she blew up occasions in most of the matches she has lost in recent months.

Well, the only other result I know is her loss to Jankovic in Kuala Lumpur, so it makes what you're saying completely true.
She can still have a Mauresmo-like or Clijsters-like career.

[Iceland]

Caroline is so predictable. The end of the match could be coming? Watch her get broken again after she just broke back. She wastes 3 BPs in a row? Watch her lose the entire match.
Bravo Caroline, keep on improving by playing every week.

[Corswandt]

Originally Posted by Iceland

Bravo Caroline, keep on improving by playing every week.

I don't think withdrawing from events so that she has plenty of free time to brood about the pathetic losses she has been inflicting upon herself will in any way help.

[Iceland]

Originally Posted by Corswandt

I don't think withdrawing from events so that she has plenty of free time to brood about the pathetic losses she has been inflicting upon herself will in any way help.

I tend to think the contrary. She even chokes against slumping Arantxa Rus for God's sake! It doesn't look like she is anywhere close to putting an end to these mental problems. As a streaky player, her confidence might grow if she finally starts winning... but, she is also very negative. A fresh start may help to work the situation, because I feel like she isn't over her disappointments yet.