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Old Feb 4th, 2012, 11:23 AM   #16
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Re: Wayne Bryan’s Letter To The USTA

just some thoughts;

Doesn't 4 star players usually play at D1? Do they want less than 4 star players to start at D1 level? Say, do they want 3 star players to start at CAL, CU, BU, UM(Miami)? But those teams are at least aiming for the conference championship. They have to compete against star-studded teams like STAN, UF, DUKE, & UCLA. Those are the teams in which the Tans, Tsays, Cercones, Janowiczs play at #5 or 6. Realistically, there'll be TONS of blowout matches

It's not like lesser talented college players will improve significantly during their college career, the Amanda McDowells and Steve Johnsons are exceedingly rare. What with limited team practice time, school, and boyfriends, and career preparation, don't see that will happen very much. Unless one is aiming at a pro tennis career, that is. So in reality, recruit = results. And most elite players tend to be concentrated at select schools. And, doesn't good coaches GO to elite tennis schools?

From a 'consumer's point of view, the change would lead to disaster. (I know WNCAA tennis fans are a 'select' group Even UCLA matches are nearly empty most of the times) Isn't WNCAA Div I tennis one of the most lopsided league there is? How many times Stanford won NCAAs? If not for foreign players, would we've experienced that 'delightful' upsets of Stanford in recent years by BU?
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Old Feb 4th, 2012, 04:54 PM   #17
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Re: Wayne Bryan’s Letter To The USTA

Quote:
Originally Posted by fantic View Post
just some thoughts;

Doesn't 4 star players usually play at D1? Do they want less than 4 star players to start at D1 level? Say, do they want 3 star players to start at CAL, CU, BU, UM(Miami)? But those teams are at least aiming for the conference championship. They have to compete against star-studded teams like STAN, UF, DUKE, & UCLA. Those are the teams in which the Tans, Tsays, Cercones, Janowiczs play at #5 or 6. Realistically, there'll be TONS of blowout matches

It's not like lesser talented college players will improve significantly during their college career, the Amanda McDowells and Steve Johnsons are exceedingly rare. What with limited team practice time, school, and boyfriends, and career preparation, don't see that will happen very much. Unless one is aiming at a pro tennis career, that is. So in reality, recruit = results. And most elite players tend to be concentrated at select schools. And, doesn't good coaches GO to elite tennis schools?

From a 'consumer's point of view, the change would lead to disaster. (I know WNCAA tennis fans are a 'select' group Even UCLA matches are nearly empty most of the times) Isn't WNCAA Div I tennis one of the most lopsided league there is? How many times Stanford won NCAAs? If not for foreign players, would we've experienced that 'delightful' upsets of Stanford in recent years by BU?

Agree with you except on elite coaches: Those jobs RARELY open up with less than a dozen 'elite' jobs having opened up in the last 15 years... so you can't assume the cream rises. Just not enough changes. (I can think of a couple elite programs that are winning despite their coach because they are a giant magnet for talent.. no matter how weird or passive their coaches are).. AND tennis jobs don't pay enough to have get veteran coaches above age 35 to move around much. Most of the changes you see (Bernstein at Mich an exception) seem to involve younger, single or recently married couples.

But the rest of your comments are spot on. Eliminate or restrict the intl's.. then 5 stars will go to Cal, 4 stars will fill those spots at the #15-25 "elite" schools and 3 stars will be left to fill the the Top 25-100 schools (like Pepp, UCI, Arizona) because the talent pool is going to shrink and shift. D1 tennis will be a joke as opposed to the excellent level it is now amongst the top 150 schools who are working at it.

On Mr. Bryan... when his son's lose to an int'l pair at the US Open, is he going to complain it's not fair they had to play against international players in the UNITED STATES OPEN?

Good grief.
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Old Feb 6th, 2012, 03:43 PM   #18
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Re: Wayne Bryan’s Letter To The USTA

Quote:
Originally Posted by form View Post
Agree with you except on elite coaches: Those jobs RARELY open up with less than a dozen 'elite' jobs having opened up in the last 15 years... so you can't assume the cream rises. Just not enough changes. (I can think of a couple elite programs that are winning despite their coach because they are a giant magnet for talent.. no matter how weird or passive their coaches are).. AND tennis jobs don't pay enough to have get veteran coaches above age 35 to move around much. Most of the changes you see (Bernstein at Mich an exception) seem to involve younger, single or recently married couples.

But the rest of your comments are spot on. Eliminate or restrict the intl's.. then 5 stars will go to Cal, 4 stars will fill those spots at the #15-25 "elite" schools and 3 stars will be left to fill the the Top 25-100 schools (like Pepp, UCI, Arizona) because the talent pool is going to shrink and shift. D1 tennis will be a joke as opposed to the excellent level it is now amongst the top 150 schools who are working at it.

On Mr. Bryan... when his son's lose to an int'l pair at the US Open, is he going to complain it's not fair they had to play against international players in the UNITED STATES OPEN?

Good grief.
yeah, I actually wasn't too sure about that part
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Old Feb 20th, 2012, 04:15 PM   #19
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Re: Wayne Bryan’s Letter To The USTA

insightful post by Barry Buss

LINK
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Old Feb 20th, 2012, 04:31 PM   #20
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Re: Wayne Bryan’s Letter To The USTA

Quote:
Originally Posted by fantic View Post
insightful post by Barry Buss

LINK
I couldn't agree less that Buss provided much insight into the topic. If you want something insightful and something less than a book to read, then check out Tim Mayotte's response over on Zootennis.

http://tenniskalamazoo.blogspot.com/
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Old Feb 20th, 2012, 04:42 PM   #21
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Re: Wayne Bryan’s Letter To The USTA

the link doesn't help much which post did Tim Mayotte respond to? Awfully lots of comments..
EDIT; can't find it, no comment by Tim Mayotte as far as I know if it's short, maybe you can repost it here?
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Old Feb 20th, 2012, 06:24 PM   #22
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Re: Wayne Bryan’s Letter To The USTA

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the link doesn't help much which post did Tim Mayotte respond to? Awfully lots of comments..
EDIT; can't find it, no comment by Tim Mayotte as far as I know if it's short, maybe you can repost it here?
Ditto, can't find Mayotte's letter.

Buss's letter is again SPOT ON.... sums it up. 'It's not a right...'

Only those unable to compete want to eliminate competition.
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Old Feb 20th, 2012, 07:14 PM   #23
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Re: Wayne Bryan’s Letter To The USTA

Here is part of Wayne Bryan's response (in blue) to Tim Moyette (in red).

Quote:
Those who know me (Moyette) won’t be surprised to hear my biggest disagreement with Bryan is about college tennis’s international component. He flat out says, “College tennis should not be a world class sport.” That is exactly what I am saying. And every single tennis parent in this country agrees with me on that. So do our US juniors and our US coaches.

Bryan’s talk of quotas smacks of the entitlement attitude many believe bears some responsibility for the decline of tennis in this country. No. I only ask that foreign parents pay the same taxes for education that our American parents pay. If they would do that for 22 years then I say, their children are entitled to play college tennis in this country. Again, only asking for fundamental fairness. Go to the Italian Open and see how many US players get a WC. Go to Wimbledon and see how many WCs US players get.

Competition is global now, whether in business or sports, and protectionism will create more problems than it will solve. Again, global is fine in professional tennis. It is called international tennis. And it is the international tennis association. And that is perfect. NCAA stands for National Collegiate Athletic Assn. Not International Collegiate Athletic Assn.
Wayne Bryan carves up Moyette's letter (and Form's arguement) like a Thanksgiving turkey.
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Old Feb 20th, 2012, 08:09 PM   #24
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Re: Wayne Bryan’s Letter To The USTA

As found on Adirondack Tennis, here is Tim's Mayotte's response:

"after almost two years inside the usta player pd i strongly agree with wayne’s outrage over the misuse of funds and the arrogance of that organization. when jose h, jay berger and patrick were around (which was very rarely) i tried to put them on court with some of our 8, 9, and 10 year olds. jose flatly said no clearly out of discomfort. jay shared a court with me and was unable to see even the most basic technical changes needed and patrick would bark words parroted from jose’s thinking like “receive the ball.” that had no relevance in the context of what we were working on with the kids. none of the three asked what we were doing or how we were trying to do it.

i understand wayne’s outrage that this group mandate, forces, others to do what they know nothing about. it is my understanding that none of them have ever been to a 10 and under tournament. when i was hired to start and run the usta at the open site i was told to develop “a pipeline of top young 8-12 year olds.” it became clear they did not know how to teach and train and at that point neither did i. my associate lee hurst was great and as i learned from him we veered from jose’s “philosophy.” when jose visited we were told change to mirror boca. after months of arguing my need for a different approach i found no option but to leave. the predictable has happened; they terminated that group and now only work with players 14 or over who commit to home school. so hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars and thousands of hours served to only drop players leaving them and parents in the lurch, alienate local pros and deepen the cycle. it was outrageous then to see patrick on tv broadcasting when he could have been on court learning about jr development (isn’t a million a year enough) or jose ensconced in palm springs with the usta paying to send player to his fancy ranch. its all such a waste.

i do think a comprehensive, in-depth, coaches training program should be developed so we can create more great coaches like you guys. coaching is one of the most complicated endeavours i have been a part of requiring a knowledge of technique, motivational skills, psychology, parent management, etc. we need more and more systematic training.

tim"
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Old Feb 20th, 2012, 08:24 PM   #25
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Re: Wayne Bryan’s Letter To The USTA

The above post is what I saw on Zootennis. While it was relevant to the "USTA" part of the discussion about "Wayne vs. McEnroe", it isn't very relevant to the topic of college tennis........sorry about that.

Also, I think on Gouci's post - his comments in red I think he meant Patrick M. (vs Tim Mayotte).

Back on the topic of college tennis, I do agree with many of the points Buss made, although reading his material made me want to poke my eyes out. He could make his point in 500 words vs. 3000.
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Old Feb 20th, 2012, 08:32 PM   #26
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Re: Wayne Bryan’s Letter To The USTA

Or he could have gone 'advanced' and used a bunch of smiley face icons. Just kidding.

The comments about doubles not being the future are so true... I still can't figure out how doubles players make money because NOBODY is watching those pro matches. I see a few on TV and even the semi's and finals are sparsely attended. It's a great game to play and much easier for older players... but it is not a 'fan' favorite...

and for Mr. Bryan to promote it as his sons have made millions is ironically self serving. If not for doubles his kids would have had to find other work.
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Old Feb 20th, 2012, 08:42 PM   #27
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Re: Wayne Bryan’s Letter To The USTA

Quote:
Originally Posted by gouci View Post
Here is part of Wayne Bryan's response (in blue) to Tim Moyette (in red).



Wayne Bryan carves up Moyette's letter (and Form's arguement) like a Thanksgiving turkey.


Mr. Bryan only made himself look like a selfish ugly American who's kids got private school (not govt paid) scholarships and who couldn't cut in on the singles tour.

And 'forms' argument is supported by many.


So does Mr. Bryan believe private schools (no Fed money) should not be allowed to do as they wish? How about public uni's where the coach/booster club pay the foreigner's tuition?

I am embarrassed by American's that have become anti-American value... where everyone has an opportunity and the best succeed. And that includes my good friend from South Orange County.

And as Fantic pointed out... apparently Gouci wants to watch 3 stars play college tennis.

Sillyness... but than again 14-1-1* ... if you can't beat them than don't let em play with my ball.
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