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Old Jan 27th, 2012, 12:32 PM   #3256
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro:Off-topic 4 the POPULAR #1

He's not been the only one.
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Old Jan 27th, 2012, 12:34 PM   #3257
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro:Off-topic 4 the POPULAR #1

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Originally Posted by backhandsmash View Post
He's not been the only one.
Djokovic has already proven himself on the grand slam stage though.
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Old Jan 27th, 2012, 12:36 PM   #3258
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro:Off-topic 4 the POPULAR #1

Murray broken for 7-5 5th set at 40-15 after having 3 break points at 5-5.
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Old Jan 27th, 2012, 12:37 PM   #3259
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro:Off-topic 4 the POPULAR #1

Yeah, but who cares now. Go Novak!!
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Old Jan 27th, 2012, 12:38 PM   #3260
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro:Off-topic 4 the POPULAR #1

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Murray lost his head there.
The match was kind of lost there.
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Old Jan 27th, 2012, 12:52 PM   #3261
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro:Off-topic 4 the POPULAR #1

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Murray is allergic to actually winning this match.
Why should that surprise you?It wasn't 'bad luck' when JJ constantly failed to close out Henin in Slams and other big matches,and it's not bad luck for Murray,either...it defines who he is as a man and as a player

EDIT:Off to work(Big Wave to Caro fans)
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Old Jan 27th, 2012, 02:54 PM   #3262
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro:Off-topic 4 the POPULAR #1

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Why should that surprise you?It wasn't 'bad luck' when JJ constantly failed to close out Henin in Slams and other big matches,and it's not bad luck for Murray,either...it defines who he is as a man and as a player
After last year's final there might have been reason to criticise him, but this time the guy has just fought his heart out for five hours in the match of the tournament in one of the best matches of his career. You're a hard man to please, Mr. Bruce. I for one think that his stock has gone up after this match.
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Old Jan 27th, 2012, 08:54 PM   #3263
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro:Off-topic 4 the POPULAR #1

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Why should that surprise you?It wasn't 'bad luck' when JJ constantly failed to close out Henin in Slams and other big matches,and it's not bad luck for Murray,either...it defines who he is as a man and as a player

EDIT:Off to work(Big Wave to Caro fans)
I can't say it's much of a surprise. I was just hoping that he'd win this slam with Fed out.

I'm tired of the slams just being won by Djokovic or Nadal.
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Old Jan 27th, 2012, 10:46 PM   #3264
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro:Off-topic 4 the POPULAR #1

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After last year's final there might have been reason to criticise him, but this time the guy has just fought his heart out for five hours in the match of the tournament in one of the best matches of his career. You're a hard man to please, Mr. Bruce. I for one think that his stock has gone up after this match.
Well,he shouldn't lose any sleep over trying to please ME...but we disagree here.If Nole had been playing at his peak level,with Andy matching him shot-for-shot as if they were two heavyweights slugging it out,then maybe I'd have agreed with you.Though I didn't catch much of the match,I haven't heard ANY summaries that described Nole's play that way...which means that Andy couldn't get it done even when Nole was subpar...this is what defines him as a LOSER.I wouldn't say that JMDP was terribly close,skill-wise,to the Triumvirate,yet he reached down like a man and found the valor within himself to decisively beat two legends for the USO title....which proves that it's far from impossible...and leaves Murray--whom most feel is more talented than JMDP--without excuse.Read your words again:He played his best match ever vs. a guy who WASN'T at his best...and STILL lost......In other words:LOSER
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Old Jan 28th, 2012, 12:07 AM   #3265
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro:Off-topic 4 the POPULAR #1

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Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
Well,he shouldn't lose any sleep over trying to please ME...but we disagree here.If Nole had been playing at his peak level,with Andy matching him shot-for-shot as if they were two heavyweights slugging it out,then maybe I'd have agreed with you.Though I didn't catch much of the match,I haven't heard ANY summaries that described Nole's play that way...which means that Andy couldn't get it done even when Nole was subpar...this is what defines him as a LOSER.I wouldn't say that JMDP was terribly close,skill-wise,to the Triumvirate,yet he reached down like a man and found the valor within himself to decisively beat two legends for the USO title....which proves that it's far from impossible...and leaves Murray--whom most feel is more talented than JMDP--without excuse.Read your words again:He played his best match ever vs. a guy who WASN'T at his best...and STILL lost......In other words:LOSER
Well, I saw the whole match, but....ok.
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Old Jan 28th, 2012, 12:22 AM   #3266
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro:Off-topic 4 the POPULAR #1

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Well, I saw the whole match, but....ok.
Don't understand your use of the 'scared' emoticon above.Do you feel that I'm trying to verbally bully you?I've never tried to silence opinions here at TF;my biggest concern was only when NON-fans came here after bashing Caro elsewhere and tried to pretend that the fans here had no reason for not welcoming them with open arms...even so,they weren't being silenced cuz there are LOADS of other places at TF for them to bad-mouth Caro to their hearts' content.

As I suggested earlier,if you feel that Novak was playing his very best,then your argument in Murray's favor is a strong one.I simply haven't seen anyone else say that...and I don't see what's so 'scary'
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Old Jan 28th, 2012, 01:18 AM   #3267
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro:Off-topic 4 the POPULAR #1

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Don't understand your use of the 'scared' emoticon above.Do you feel that I'm trying to verbally bully you?I've never tried to silence opinions here at TF;my biggest concern was only when NON-fans came here after bashing Caro elsewhere and tried to pretend that the fans here had no reason for not welcoming them with open arms...even so,they weren't being silenced cuz there are LOADS of other places at TF for them to bad-mouth Caro to their hearts' content.

As I suggested earlier,if you feel that Novak was playing his very best,then your argument in Murray's favor is a strong one.I simply haven't seen anyone else say that...and I don't see what's so 'scary'
You read way too much into that emoticon, mate.

I guess I just see the Murray issue differently as you, that's all. This is the best best of five sets match I've ever seen Murray play against one of the holy trinity. Whereas in previous GS matches against any of them his level dropped from the play he had shown us in previous rounds and he seemed to capitulate when things seemed to go against him, the opposite was true on this occation. It was a very up and down match with lots of service breaks from either side. There were numerous times when one or the other could have succumbed to the pressure. We knew that Djokovic wouldn't, but for the first time in a match of this magnitude Murray didn't either. Of course he choked at times, but EVERY player - bar none - chokes in my opinion. The great players just don't dwell on their mistakes, regroup themselves, and are competitive again in the next point. And Murray was exactly that. He played to win from the first minute to the last. Nobody who saw this match can say that he didn't give it everything he had and nobody can ask anything more than that from a player. A "loser" for me is a player who gives up without trying - not someone who ends up with the short end of the stick after he has fought his or her heart out.

About the non-Caro fans visiting this fan forum you mention in the first paragraph.... I think I was missunderstood at the time. I created the "general womens tennis" thread out of frustration with GM. I at the time thought that it would be a good idea to have an alternative to GM. One where Caro fans, but others as well, would be welcome to discuss the wta tour, the players, the tournaments and so on - just like in GM, but done properly this time. Without the bitching, without the trolling, without the insults. EVERYONE would be welcome, as long as they respected those rules. In hindsight this was probably very naive and definitely far too ambitious.
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Old Jan 28th, 2012, 01:36 AM   #3268
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro:Off-topic 4 the POPULAR #1

My concern was that you might feel aggravated to the point of wanting to leave the forum again,but I won't dwell on the past too much because you told me that there weren't any hard feelings and,based on what you've shown in your time here,I'm strongly inclined to take you at your word and let that old stuff go.

My 'loser' accusation is definitely subjective and not factual;obviously,he's been a successful player so he's not some total failure.However,most tennis insiders consider him a top-notch talent,and Murray has usually fallen woefully short vs. the Triumvirate at Slams...rarely even competitive.This year,Novak has been limping along and lacking explosiveness of movement,and he sprayed LOTS of UEs in the semi...and Murray STILL failed.A small sign that I consider telling is that Andy tried to dismiss Nole's limping after the match...an underhanded way of insinuating that Nole was 100%.In MY view,a rationalization---Murray's saying,basically,'No,I'm not a loser just because I couldn't beat Nole even when he was sub-par."
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Old Jan 28th, 2012, 01:45 AM   #3269
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro:Off-topic 4 the POPULAR #1

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My concern was that you might feel aggravated to the point of wanting to leave the forum again,but I won't dwell on the past too much because you told me that there weren't any hard feelings and,based on what you've shown in your time here,I'm strongly inclined to take you at your word and let that old stuff go.

My 'loser' accusation is definitely subjective and not factual;obviously,he's been a successful player so he's not some total failure.However,most tennis insiders consider him a top-notch talent,and Murray has usually fallen woefully short vs. the Triumvirate at Slams...rarely even competitive.This year,Novak has been limping along and lacking explosiveness of movement,and he sprayed LOTS of UEs in the semi...and Murray STILL failed.A small sign that I consider telling is that Andy tried to dismiss Nole's limping after the match...an underhanded way of insinuating that Nole was 100%.In MY view,a rationalization---Murray's saying,basically,'No,I'm not a loser just because I couldn't beat Nole even when he was sub-par."
Well, Nole did a lot of limping. Not for the first time in his career btw. The problem is that three or four hours later he's still limping...at a 100mph once the ball is in play, that is.
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Old Jan 28th, 2012, 02:26 AM   #3270
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro:Off-topic 4 the POPULAR #1

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Well, Nole did a lot of limping. Not for the first time in his career btw. The problem is that three or four hours later he's still limping...at a 100mph once the ball is in play, that is.
If you're implying that Nole is a bit of an actor sometimes,then you're in good company.Though aye DO feel that he's legitimately hurt and didn't play near his best,I take sort of a balanced attitude towards Nole:

By Star Male Athlete standards,he's a lot more likable than many of the nasty pricks we see in the sporting world.On the other hand,he's hardly the saint,IMO,that many of his fans make him out to be.I can't speak authoritatively on when he's faking or exaggerating injury,but aye WILL say that his claims of innocent friendships with a couple WTA stars are ludicrous when you look at the facts.I suppose he deserves some small measure of credit for not being a braggart over his romantic exploits;however,I suspect that his gf,Jelena,has long since purchased an Ivanovic dartboard if any such items are available.Nole has apparently been in that relationship for over five years,so there's no reason why his 'close,platonic friend' Ana couldn't ever have greeted the person whom Nole has practically been married to--the one who's been such a huge part of his life.Strangely,though,one can't find one solitary photo of Ana having lunch...going to a movie...or going shopping...with Nole AND his gf...no newspaper clippings mentioning that,either.....probably just a media oversight,huh?
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