Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal - Page 2 - TennisForum.com
TennisForum.com   Wagerline.com MensTennisForums.com TennisUniverse.com
TennisForum.com is the premier Women's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

View Poll Results: Bigger gap on clay

Henin over Serena 117 49.58%
Nadal over Federer 119 50.42%
Voters: 236. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

Old Dec 6th, 2011, 04:13 AM   #16
country flag AcesHigh
Senior Member
 
AcesHigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 10,042
AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

IMHO, Serena, Justine and Roger are very lucky to have competed in an era of very very weak clay competition (besides Henin and Nadal themselves of course).

The gap between Roger and Rafa is HUGE. It's not even a competition and Roger is my favorite player.
It's clear that Henin is better on clay than Serena, but PeakRena is pretty formidable to the point that I'd say she wins 3-4/10 matches against PeakJustine on clay. Has nothing to do with Serena being a good claycourter because she isn't for sure.. it's more that PeakRena being the supreme athlete she was could just overwhelm you with serve, return, speed, power, etc.
__________________
I always wanted to be somebody. If I made it, it's half because I was game enough to take a lot of punishment along the way and half because there were a lot of people who cared enough to help me.
-Althea Gibson


Quote:
Originally Posted by darrinbaker00 View Post
When will you learn that "pushers" never make it past the club level, let alone #1 on the WTA computer? Will it be too late?
AcesHigh is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old Dec 6th, 2011, 04:15 AM   #17
country flag TheDream
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,231
TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

Quote:
Originally Posted by rimon View Post
IMO, Serena was lucky that Justine was sick at the RG 2002, as it might have prevented her from winning her lone RG. Just like vice versa with Justine at the AO 2004.
I don't think Henin was ready for a slam then. Even if she did beat Serena, she'd have to beat Capriati in the SF, and then Venus in the final. I think she wouldve been exhausted in the final and she would have had a ton of pressure on her. Her draw would've been too taxing IMO, even though she did beat Capriati in 3 easy sets earlier that season.
TheDream is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6th, 2011, 04:22 AM   #18
country flag rimon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,819
rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDream View Post
I don't think Henin was ready for a slam then. Even if she did beat Serena, she'd have to beat Capriati in the SF, and then Venus in the final. I think she wouldve been exhausted in the final and she would have had a ton of pressure on her. Her draw would've been too taxing IMO, even though she did beat Capriati in 3 easy sets earlier that season.
Possibly, but we'll never know for sure. Justine owned Jennifer, and she would have most likely beaten Venus at the RG any year.
rimon is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6th, 2011, 04:31 AM   #19
country flag TheDream
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,231
TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute TheDream has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

Quote:
Originally Posted by rimon View Post
Possibly, but we'll never know for sure. Justine owned Jennifer, and she would have most likely beaten Venus at the RG any year.
Well, I don't think she would've gotten past Serena. And she owned Jennifer but so did everyone else but Capriati was a different beast in a slam and she also had support from the French crowd. And, Venus would've had a legitimate shot at beating Capriati or Henin in the final IMO.
TheDream is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6th, 2011, 04:40 AM   #20
country flag justineheninfan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,288
justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

Federer was far luckier at the 2009 French then Serena was at the 2002 French. Henin was mentaly fragile, not in her prime physically or technically either, and had gone 1-1 vs Serena on clay. She was at best 45% likely to beat Serena even if they met in the quarters that year (although I agree no way she would have lost to either Capriati or Venus if she did, barring a major 02 Charleston level choke). A much stronger Henin barely Serena the next year. The only match she came close to losing was the semifinal to Capriati. Federer in 2009, like all years, had roughly 0% chance to beat Nadal if they met at Roland Garros, or maybe 5% that year since Nadal was legitimately injured IMO. He nearly lost to Haas and Del Potro, probably should have lost both matches.
justineheninfan is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6th, 2011, 04:42 AM   #21
country flag n1_and_uh_noone
Senior Member
 
n1_and_uh_noone's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,394
n1_and_uh_noone has a reputation beyond repute n1_and_uh_noone has a reputation beyond repute n1_and_uh_noone has a reputation beyond repute n1_and_uh_noone has a reputation beyond repute n1_and_uh_noone has a reputation beyond repute n1_and_uh_noone has a reputation beyond repute n1_and_uh_noone has a reputation beyond repute n1_and_uh_noone has a reputation beyond repute n1_and_uh_noone has a reputation beyond repute n1_and_uh_noone has a reputation beyond repute n1_and_uh_noone has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

Federer has a great game for clay and does not hate it, like Serena. He can move great, hang in rallies (even if he can get murdered by high balls to his backhand) and finish points if necessary. Serena can only do the latter and even that is rarely in her control against decent players.

That said, there are very few women players who are good on clay. At least on the ATP, most top players are pretty good on it, and some of them are great.

Anyway, Justine over Serena. They played way less than Fedal though, so that percentage is not a good way to do the comparison.
n1_and_uh_noone is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6th, 2011, 04:51 AM   #22
country flag AcesHigh
Senior Member
 
AcesHigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 10,042
AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

Quote:
Originally Posted by rimon View Post
Possibly, but we'll never know for sure. Justine owned Jennifer, and she would have most likely beaten Venus at the RG any year.
At that point, Justine didn't own Jen
And beating Venus (a bad matchup for her) in Venus's prime in a slam final? Just wasn't going to happen.

RG 2002 was perfect timing for Serena
RG 2003 was perfect timing for Justine

It was that AO 2003 match against Davenport, where Justine finally arrived and got over the hump. 2002 was a bit early for her to be winning slams.
__________________
I always wanted to be somebody. If I made it, it's half because I was game enough to take a lot of punishment along the way and half because there were a lot of people who cared enough to help me.
-Althea Gibson


Quote:
Originally Posted by darrinbaker00 View Post
When will you learn that "pushers" never make it past the club level, let alone #1 on the WTA computer? Will it be too late?
AcesHigh is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6th, 2011, 04:59 AM   #23
bandabou
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 39,185
bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

At her peak level of '02-'03, Serena showed she can be a formidable clay-courter..who came two points away from doing the Berlin-Rome-RG trifecta. She was never the same after her injury though..

Roger vs Nadal? Roger is just hopeless against Nadal.
bandabou is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6th, 2011, 05:03 AM   #24
country flag Stonerpova
`
 
Stonerpova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,762
Stonerpova has a reputation beyond repute Stonerpova has a reputation beyond repute Stonerpova has a reputation beyond repute Stonerpova has a reputation beyond repute Stonerpova has a reputation beyond repute Stonerpova has a reputation beyond repute Stonerpova has a reputation beyond repute Stonerpova has a reputation beyond repute Stonerpova has a reputation beyond repute Stonerpova has a reputation beyond repute Stonerpova has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp!ffy View Post
Not to mention she faced a mentally weak opponent in the final of her RG title.
You're unreal
__________________

http://imageshack.us/a/img534/5492/maria1y.pnghttp://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4647/xk7s.png
Sharapova Ivanovic Jankovic Pavs Wozniacki Wickmayer Goerges Cetkovska Vaidisova
Tweet. Tumble. Blog.

Stonerpova is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6th, 2011, 05:08 AM   #25
InsideOut.
Senior Member
 
InsideOut.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anapolis Asylum
Posts: 17,331
InsideOut. has a reputation beyond repute InsideOut. has a reputation beyond repute InsideOut. has a reputation beyond repute InsideOut. has a reputation beyond repute InsideOut. has a reputation beyond repute InsideOut. has a reputation beyond repute InsideOut. has a reputation beyond repute InsideOut. has a reputation beyond repute InsideOut. has a reputation beyond repute InsideOut. has a reputation beyond repute InsideOut. has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

Nadal over Federer. But if you compare the relative levels of play across the two tours. Federer is a much better claycourter than the rest of the ATP tour than Serena is over the WTA tour. It's just that Nadal is amazing on the stuff.
__________________
Still holding onto that last bit of hope for Ana Ivanovic.
Justine Henin. Li Na. Andrea Petkovic.
InsideOut. is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6th, 2011, 05:09 AM   #26
country flag rimon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,819
rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDream View Post
Well, I don't think she would've gotten past Serena. And she owned Jennifer but so did everyone else but Capriati was a different beast in a slam and she also had support from the French crowd. And, Venus would've had a legitimate shot at beating Capriati or Henin in the final IMO.
Justine always received support from the French crowd, too. And she's just beaten Serena in the final of Berlin. We'll never know for sure, because Justine became sick and lost 4-6, 6-1, 6-0 to Kapros in the first round.
rimon is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6th, 2011, 05:11 AM   #27
country flag rimon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,819
rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

Quote:
Originally Posted by justineheninfan View Post
Federer was far luckier at the 2009 French then Serena was at the 2002 French. Henin was mentaly fragile, not in her prime physically or technically either, and had gone 1-1 vs Serena on clay. She was at best 45% likely to beat Serena even if they met in the quarters that year (although I agree no way she would have lost to either Capriati or Venus if she did, barring a major 02 Charleston level choke). A much stronger Henin barely Serena the next year. The only match she came close to losing was the semifinal to Capriati. Federer in 2009, like all years, had roughly 0% chance to beat Nadal if they met at Roland Garros, or maybe 5% that year since Nadal was legitimately injured IMO. He nearly lost to Haas and Del Potro, probably should have lost both matches.
True, but if Capriati could come so close to beating Serena (she was 6-3, 6-5 up) then there is n reason to think that Justine couldn't. Again, it's all speculative, and we'll never know for sure either way.
rimon is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6th, 2011, 05:12 AM   #28
country flag justineheninfan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,288
justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute justineheninfan has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
At that point, Justine didn't own Jen
And beating Venus (a bad matchup for her) in Venus's prime in a slam final? Just wasn't going to happen.

RG 2002 was perfect timing for Serena
RG 2003 was perfect timing for Justine

It was that AO 2003 match against Davenport, where Justine finally arrived and got over the hump. 2002 was a bit early for her to be winning slams.
Henin ALWAYS owned Jennifer. At the time of RG 2002 she had won both of their completed matches, including even beating her on grass (Jennifer won a match in 2001 when Henin retired with an injury on serve in the 3rd set).

While RG 2002 was not Henin's prime it is quite clear what you are implying. Apparently you are so incredibly biased and delusional when it comes to Henin (your obvious least favorite player, other than Sharapova) and your beloved Venus that you probably think (and seem to be actually implying to everyones amazement other than your own) that a prime Henin would never beat a prime Venus in a Roland Garros final, ROTFL!!!!!! Like dsanders said you should just disqualify yourself from ever talking about Henin again, before you embarass yourself further by giving us more wonderous quotes like my sig and many others.
justineheninfan is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6th, 2011, 05:13 AM   #29
country flag rimon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,819
rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light rimon is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
At that point, Justine didn't own Jen
And beating Venus (a bad matchup for her) in Venus's prime in a slam final? Just wasn't going to happen.

RG 2002 was perfect timing for Serena
RG 2003 was perfect timing for Justine

It was that AO 2003 match against Davenport, where Justine finally arrived and got over the hump. 2002 was a bit early for her to be winning slams.
In their 7 encounters, only once did Jennifer have a comprehensive win. The other time that she beat Justine, was a walkover. Venus defeating Justine in an RG final?? Again, I said that it was only a possibility. She was always far better on clay than any other surface, so I'm just throwing it out there. It means nothing at the end of the day.
rimon is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6th, 2011, 05:21 AM   #30
Setsuna.
.
 
Setsuna.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 24,086
Setsuna. has a reputation beyond repute Setsuna. has a reputation beyond repute Setsuna. has a reputation beyond repute Setsuna. has a reputation beyond repute Setsuna. has a reputation beyond repute Setsuna. has a reputation beyond repute Setsuna. has a reputation beyond repute Setsuna. has a reputation beyond repute Setsuna. has a reputation beyond repute Setsuna. has a reputation beyond repute Setsuna. has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

Fed BAGELED Nadal on clay and did beat him twice. Peak Serena could never bagel Henin on clay even if Henin was playing at her worst.

Fed also choked a lot in some of clay matches against Nadal. He is not totally hopeless. Rafa is just a bad match up for him in general and Fed is mentally very weak against him which helped Rafa to win almost all the tight matches between them. Fed was by far the second best claycourter in the last 6 years. Can't say the same thing about Serena. There is better claycourter(s) than her.
__________________

Chakvetadze Barthel Pavlyuchenkova Kerber Halep Shvedova Bencic
Setsuna. is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios