
Dec 25th, 2010, 10:58 PM

#1

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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South Germany
Posts: 49,250

TB/SR Rules 2014 (determining the winner)
2014 SR/TB Rules.
The TT OOP should have in its contents:
The Round for which you are tipping;
3 matches should be Tie Break matches, others should all be SR matches
The person/people TT players are suppossed to send their picks to and the deadline to send picks.
The TB matches should be considered to be the most difficult to predict in the schedule.
Procedures to determine a winner:
1) The player who has more correct tips is the victor.
In the case of a tie in the number of correct tips the victor should be determined by this order:
2) Set Ratios
Player A wins if he has more correct set ratios than player B. In case there is a tie in the number of correct SRs, you should use the new SR rule method.
3) The new SR rule (Incorrect Picks)
SINGLES:
All INCORRECT picks will be compared, and the player with the most incorrect 21 picks (as opposed to incorrect 20 picks) will win. That means, if both players picked the incorrect winner, but one player gives a set to the correct winner, he/she will get a point.
Incorrect 21 picks will also get rewarded, if one player picked the incorrect winner 21 and the other player forgot to pick for that match "no pick"!
Example: Sharapova def. Clijsters 64 63
Player A picked Clijsters 20, Player B picked Clijsters 21 => Player B gets a point as he/she gave a set to Sharapova (the correct winner).
If your opponent picked the correct winner and you picked the incorrect winner to win 21, then you won't get a point.
Example: Sharapova def. Clijsters 64 63
Player A picked Sharapova 20, Player B picked Clijsters 21 => Player B doesn't get a point as Player A picked the correct winner.
DOUBLES:
Where 2 teams have the same score and same SRs, we look at incorrect 21 picks. Whoever has the most incorrect 21 picks win. However, unlike in singles, just because 1 player in a team has the correct winner of that match, it DOES NOT render an incorrect 21 pick irrelevant. The correct picks cancel each other out.
Example: Paszek def. Jankovic 63 64
Team 1's picks  Paszek 63 64 Jankovic 36 63 64
Team 2's picks  Paszek 63 64 Jankovic 63 64
 In this example, the 2 Paszek picks cancel each other out, so we look at the incorrect picks and team 1 gains an incorrect SR point as we compare the Jankovic picks. Team 1 would get this point even if their first player had picked Paszek in 3, as both teams will have already been rewarded for correct SRs.
If 1 member of the opposing team gets the correct winner and nobody in the other team does, then only 1 21 pick is counted, as again, you compare the picks.
Example: Paszek def. Jankovic 63 64
Team 1's picks  Jankovic 63 36 64 Jankovic 36 63 64
Team 2's picks  Paszek 63 64 Jankovic 63 64
 In this example, team 1 gains 1 incorrect SR point. If the second player in team 2 had Jankovic in 3, then both teams would have 1 incorrect SR point
 The thing to be remembered is that the better picks should be paired off against each other:
Example: Team 1 picks Paszek 63 64 Jankovic 63 64
Team 2 picks Jankovic 36 63 64 Jankovic 63 64
 The better picks are by the first players in each team. team 2's Jankovic 21 is irrelevant as it is compared with team 1's Paszek pick. Then the jankovic 20 picks cancel each other out.
If this fails to provide a winner, then the Tie Breaks method is used.
4) Tie Breaks
In case Player A and Player B chose the correct winner for the TB1 match and both have the correct/incorrect Set Ratio for that match, winner should be determined by this order:
Player has 3 set scores in the correct order > Player has 3 set scores in the wrong order > Player has 2 set scores in the correct order > Player has 2 set scores in the wrong order > Player has 1 set score in the right order > Player has 1 set score in the wrong order.
If you pick the same score for both sets (e.g. 64 64) and the real score is 64 63 then you get only 1 set score in the right order, only in case that the match score is really 64 64 then you get 2 sets in the right order. The same is for 3setters. If you pick 64 46 64 and the match score is 64 26 63 then you only get 1 set in the right order.
If you can't find a winner after all this, use the who's closer method:
Example: Sharapova wins a match 63 63
Player A chose her: 60 60
Player B chose her: 76 76
Total number of games in Sharapova match: 6+3+6+3=18
Total number of games in Player A pick: 6+0+6+0=12
Total number of games in Player B pick: 7+6+7+6=26
Player A: 1812=6
Player B: 1826=8
Player A wins as he is closer to the real score.
NEW RULE 2014: If you can´t find a winner after this, take a look at the order of sets.
Example: Sharapova wins a match 36 64 63 (total numbers of games in this match: 28)
Player A chose her: 62 67 63 (total numbers of games picked: 30)
Player B chose her: 67 62 63 (total numbers of games picked: 30)
Player B wins as he picked order of sets correct.
Player C chose her: 62 06 61 (total numbers of games picked: 21)
Player D chose her: 46 76 75 (total numbers of games picked: 35)
Player D wins as he picked order of sets correct.
In case you chose the loser for the TB1 match:
Player A and Player B chose the loser of the TB1 match but Player A gives a set to the winner and Player B doesn't > Player A wins.
Player A and Player B chose the loser of the TB1 match and none or both players give a set to the winner > Use TB2 (or TB3 if needed) and do the same steps.
None of the TBs methods could produce a winner > Use the old TB method where the player who gave the winner the most games will win.
This rule only becomes effective when both players picked the wrong winner of a match.
5) CB/”Looking Forwards”
In Case everything is tied after the use of all TBs, use tournament Countback (CB) as a manner of untying things.
Where 2 players have the same score, and cannot be separated by SRs, incorrect 21 picks (new SR rule) or TBs, countback is used. Countback is based on the WHOLE tournament, and not just the previous round.
If that doesn't separate people, then we do SR countback for the whole tournament, then incorrect 21's (new SR rule) for the whole tournament and then if people still aren't separated, we look to the previous round for the opponents' respective scores, then SRs, then incorrect 21's (new SR rule) and then, if need be, TBs.
If, after the use of CB everything is still tied: where 2 players are tied on score, SRs, incorrect 21 SRs, PTS and on countback, matches will be decided by predicting the results of another tournament. the players will then send for R2 of their current tournament AND for the next day's OOP of whichever other tournament is selected. Where possible, the tiebreaker tournament selected should be within a similar timezone to the initial tournament and at a similar level, although as long as things are fair for both participants, this is left largely to the discretion of the manager. However, a semiideal example would be:
Chris 84 and Meelis are tied in every aspect in their rd1 match in Brisbane. both players then send for rd2 in Brisbane, but to seperate them, and to decide who goes through, they must send picks for the Shenzhen tournament as well. the manager will make up/copy the OOP for the following day's play in Shenzhen and Chris 84 and Meelis will send for that. assume that Meelis wins on the Shenzhen OOP 54. this means that Meelis advances to rd2 in Brsibane and Chris 84's rd2 Brisbane picks are discarded.
Last edited by Michael! : Apr 5th, 2014 at 10:04 AM.



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Jan 3rd, 2011, 09:08 AM

#2

indescribable
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South Germany
Posts: 49,250

Re: SR/TB Rules for 2011 (determining the winner)  NEW SR RULE!
Just to make it clear, matches in which one player retired don´t count for TB decisions,right?
Same goes for that new SR shootout, for example, both players picked Venus (one 20, the other 21) but she had to retire at 26 03 , so the one who picked Venus 21, still doesn´t get that point, right? I think that would be not fair, to reward 21 picks in matches where one had to retire...



Jan 3rd, 2011, 12:33 PM

#3

Team WTAworldSenior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 64,553

Re: SR/TB Rules for 2011 (determining the winner)  NEW SR RULE!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael!
Just to make it clear, matches in which one player retired don´t count for TB decisions,right?
Same goes for that new SR shootout

Yes



Aug 11th, 2011, 06:38 AM

#4

Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 11,606

Re: SR/TB Rules for 2011 (determining the winner)  NEW SR RULE!
Should not this be inserted?
Player A and Player B chose the loser of the TB1 match and no player gives a set to the winner > Use TB2/TB3 and do the same steps.
..
Player A and Player B chose the loser of the TB1 match and both player give a set to the winner > Use TB2/TB3 and do the same steps.
..



Aug 17th, 2011, 06:59 AM

#5

Hot as hell! <3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Prague
Posts: 49,146

Re: SR/TB Rules for 2011 (determining the winner)  NEW SR RULE!
"The TB matches should be considered to be the most difficult to predict in the schedule."
this was just added to rules



Oct 12th, 2011, 07:57 PM

#6

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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Prague
Posts: 49,146

Re: SR/TB Rules for 2011 (determining the winner)  NEW SR RULE!
CB rule changed to:
5) CB/”Looking Forwards”
In Case everything is tied after the use of the TBs, use tournament Countback (CB) as a manner of untying things.
Where 2 players have the same score, and cannot be separated by SRs, incorrect 21 picks (new SR rule) or TBs, countback is used. Countback is based on the WHOLE tournament, and not just the previous round.
If that doesn't separate people, then we do SR countback for the whole tournament, then incorrect 21's (new SR rule) for the whole tournament and then if people still aren't separated, we look to the previous round for the opponents' respective scores, then SRs, then incorrect 21's (new SR rule) and then, if need be, TBs.
If, after the use of CB everything is still tied make players send for the next round and the one with the best picks will win.



Nov 22nd, 2011, 05:41 AM

#7

Hot as hell! <3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Prague
Posts: 49,146

Re: SR/TB Rules for 2011 (determining the winner)  NEW SR and CB RULE!
The new SR rule (Incorrect Picks) was updated for 2012!



Nov 22nd, 2011, 05:43 AM

#8

Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia!
Posts: 61,996

Re: SR/TB Rules for 2012 (determining the winner)  NEW SR and CB RULE!
In case you chose the loser for the TB1 match:
Player A and Player B chose the loser of the TB1 match but Player A gives a set to the winner and Player B doesn't > Player A wins.
Player A and Player B chose the loser of the TB1 match and no player gives a set to the winner > Use TB2/TB3 and do the same steps.
None of the TBs could produce a winner after using this method > Use the old TB method where the Player who gives the winner the most games will win.
Could you put this rule like at the top of Tie Breaks so i can remember it
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Nov 22nd, 2011, 05:47 AM

#9

Hot as hell! <3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Prague
Posts: 49,146

Re: SR/TB Rules for 2012 (determining the winner)  NEW SR and CB RULE!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev.
In case you chose the loser for the TB1 match:
Player A and Player B chose the loser of the TB1 match but Player A gives a set to the winner and Player B doesn't > Player A wins.
Player A and Player B chose the loser of the TB1 match and no player gives a set to the winner > Use TB2/TB3 and do the same steps.
None of the TBs could produce a winner after using this method > Use the old TB method where the Player who gives the winner the most games will win.
Could you put this rule like at the top of Tie Breaks so i can remember it

I think it's not really needed and it's very easy to remember so I think it's okay as it is atm



Dec 29th, 2012, 04:13 PM

#10

Hot as hell! <3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Prague
Posts: 49,146

Re: SR/TB Rules for 2012 (determining the winner)  NEW SR and CB RULE!
one change for next year
If, after the use of CB everything is still tied: where 2 players are tied on score, SRs, incorrect 21 SRs, PTS and on countback, matches will be decided by predicting the results of another tournament. the players will then send for R2 of their current tournament AND for the next day's OOP of whichever other tournament is selected. Where possible, the tiebreaker tournament selected should be within a similar timezone to the initial tournament and at a similar level, although as long as things are fair for both participants, this is left largely to the discretion of the manager. However, a semiideal example would be:
Chris 84 and Meelis are tied in every aspect in their rd1 match in Brisbane. both players then send for rd2 in Brisbane, but to seperate them, and to decide who goes through, they must send picks for the Shenzhen tournament as well. the manager will make up/copy the OOP for the following day's play in Shenzhen and Chris 84 and Meelis will send for that. assume that Meelis wins on the Shenzhen OOP 54. this means that Meelis advances to rd2 in Brsibane and Chris 84's rd2 Brisbane picks are discarded.



Dec 29th, 2012, 04:47 PM

#11

Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 20,067

Re: SR/TB Rules for 2012 (determining the winner)  NEW SR and CB RULE!
you forgot the new "SR limit" rule. Or the abolition of the old rule to be more precise.
Edit:
I see that you posted it in the other thread. The old rule is still in the first post though



Dec 2nd, 2013, 07:56 PM

#12

indescribable
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South Germany
Posts: 49,250

Re: TB/SR Rules (determining the winner)
Red part has been added to the new TB rules for 2014! (regarding the correct order of sets)
Quote:
2014 SR/TB Rules.
The TT OOP should have in its contents:
The Round for which you are tipping;
3 matches should be Tie Break matches, others should all be SR matches
The person/people TT players are suppossed to send their picks to and the deadline to send picks.
]The TB matches should be considered to be the most difficult to predict in the schedule.
Procedures to determine a winner:
1) The player who has more correct tips is the victor.
In the case of a tie in the number of correct tips the victor should be determined by this order:
2) Set Ratios
Player A wins if he has more correct set ratios than player B. In case there is a tie in the number of correct SRs, you should use the new SR rule method.
3) The new SR rule (Incorrect Picks)
SINGLES:
All INCORRECT picks will be compared, and the player with the most incorrect 21 picks (as opposed to incorrect 20 picks) will win. That means, if both players picked the incorrect winner, but one player gives a set to the correct winner, he/she will get a point.
Example: Sharapova def. Clijsters 64 63
Player A picked Clijsters 20, Player B picked Clijsters 21 => Player B gets a point as he/she gave a set to Sharapova (the correct winner).
If your opponent picked the correct winner and you picked the incorrect winner to win 21, then you won't get a point.
Example: Sharapova def. Clijsters 64 63
Player A picked Sharapova 20, Player B picked Clijsters 21 => Player B doesn't get a point as Player A picked the correct winner.
DOUBLES:
Where 2 teams have the same score and same SRs, we look at incorrect 21 picks. Whoever has the most incorrect 21 picks win. However, unlike in singles, just because 1 player in a team has the correct winner of that match, it DOES NOT render an incorrect 21 pick irrelevant. The correct picks cancel each other out.
Example: Paszek def. Jankovic 63 64
Team 1's picks  Paszek 63 64 Jankovic 36 63 64
Team 2's picks  Paszek 63 64 Jankovic 63 64
 In this example, the 2 Paszek picks cancel each other out, so we look at the incorrect picks and team 1 gains an incorrect SR point as we compare the Jankovic picks. Team 1 would get this point even if their first player had picked Paszek in 3, as both teams will have already been rewarded for correct SRs.
If 1 member of the opposing team gets the correct winner and nobody in the other team does, then only 1 21 pick is counted, as again, you compare the picks.
Example: Paszek def. Jankovic 63 64
Team 1's picks  Jankovic 63 36 64 Jankovic 36 63 64
Team 2's picks  Paszek 63 64 Jankovic 63 64
 In this example, team 1 gains 1 incorrect SR point. If the second player in team 2 had Jankovic in 3, then both teams would have 1 incorrect SR point
 The thing to be remembered is that the better picks should be paired off against each other:
Example: Team 1 picks Paszek 63 64 Jankovic 63 64
Team 2 picks Jankovic 36 63 64 Jankovic 63 64
 The better picks are by the first players in each team. team 2's Jankovic 21 is irrelevant as it is compared with team 1's Paszek pick. Then the jankovic 20 picks cancel each other out.
If this fails to provide a winner, then the Tie Breaks method is used.
4) Tie Breaks
In case Player A and Player B chose the correct winner for the TB1 match and both have the correct/incorrect Set Ratio for that match, winner should be determined by this order:
Player has 3 set scores in the correct order > Player has 3 set scores in the wrong order > Player has 2 set scores in the correct order > Player has 2 set scores in the wrong order > Player has 1 set score in the right order > Player has 1 set score in the wrong order.
If you pick the same score for both sets (e.g. 64 64) and the real score is 64 63 then you get only 1 set score in the right order, only in case that the match score is really 64 64 then you get 2 sets in the right order. The same is for 3setters. If you pick 64 46 64 and the match score is 64 26 63 then you only get 1 set in the right order.
If you can't find a winner after all this, use the who's closer method:
Example: Sharapova wins a match 63 63
Player A chose her: 60 60
Player B chose her: 76 76
Total number of games in Sharapova match: 6+3+6+3=18
Total number of games in Player A pick: 6+0+6+0=12
Total number of games in Player B pick: 7+6+7+6=26
Player A: 1812=6
Player B: 1826=8
Player A wins as he is closer to the real score.
If you can´t find a winner after this, take a look at the order of sets.
Example: Sharapova wins a match 36 64 63 (total numbers of games in this match: 28)
Player A chose her: 62 67 63 (total numbers of games picked: 30)
Player B chose her: 67 62 63 (total numbers of games picked: 30)
Player B wins as he picked order of sets correct.
Player C chose her: 62 06 61 (total numbers of games picked: 21)
Player D chose her: 46 76 75 (total numbers of games picked: 35)
Player D wins as he picked order of sets correct.
In case you chose the loser for the TB1 match:
Player A and Player B chose the loser of the TB1 match but Player A gives a set to the winner and Player B doesn't > Player A wins.
Player A and Player B chose the loser of the TB1 match and both player gave a set to the winner > Use TB2/TB3 and do the same steps.
Player A and Player B chose the loser of the TB1 match and no player gives a set to the winner > Use TB2/TB3 and do the same steps.
None of the TBs could produce a winner after using this method > Use the old TB method where the Player who gives the winner the most games will win.
5) CB/”Looking Forwards”
In Case everything is tied after the use of the TBs, use tournament Countback (CB) as a manner of untying things.
Where 2 players have the same score, and cannot be separated by SRs, incorrect 21 picks (new SR rule) or TBs, countback is used. Countback is based on the WHOLE tournament, and not just the previous round.
If that doesn't separate people, then we do SR countback for the whole tournament, then incorrect 21's (new SR rule) for the whole tournament and then if people still aren't separated, we look to the previous round for the opponents' respective scores, then SRs, then incorrect 21's (new SR rule) and then, if need be, TBs.
If, after the use of CB everything is still tied: where 2 players are tied on score, SRs, incorrect 21 SRs, PTS and on countback, matches will be decided by predicting the results of another tournament. the players will then send for R2 of their current tournament AND for the next day's OOP of whichever other tournament is selected. Where possible, the tiebreaker tournament selected should be within a similar timezone to the initial tournament and at a similar level, although as long as things are fair for both participants, this is left largely to the discretion of the manager. However, a semiideal example would be:
Chris 84 and Meelis are tied in every aspect in their rd1 match in Brisbane. both players then send for rd2 in Brisbane, but to seperate them, and to decide who goes through, they must send picks for the Shenzhen tournament as well. the manager will make up/copy the OOP for the following day's play in Shenzhen and Chris 84 and Meelis will send for that. assume that Meelis wins on the Shenzhen OOP 54. this means that Meelis advances to rd2 in Brsibane and Chris 84's rd2 Brisbane picks are discarded.

__________________



Apr 5th, 2014, 10:05 AM

#13

indescribable
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South Germany
Posts: 49,250

Re: TB/SR Rules 2014 (determining the winner)
Quote:
In case you chose the loser for the TB1 match:
Player A and Player B chose the loser of the TB1 match but Player A gives a set to the winner and Player B doesn't > Player A wins.
Player A and Player B chose the loser of the TB1 match and none or both players give a set to the winner > Use TB2 (or TB3 if needed) and do the same steps.
None of the TBs methods could produce a winner > Use the old TB method where the player who gave the winner the most games will win.
This rule only becomes effective when both players picked the wrong winner of a match.

I added the blue part to the TB rules to avoid any confusion here in future!




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