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Old Jul 19th, 2011, 01:44 PM   #16
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Re: FIRST NAMES - Help Needed

Quote:

V. MacVeagh = Virginia MacVeagh (USA)

Mark-would you know if this is the same V MacVeagh who won the French nationals and is usually listed as English?

Graham-I think Mark's additions take carea of good portion of your list. if I forget please press me a few days on Mrs Drexel Paul-I have her first name and maiden name on file somewhere.
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Old Jul 24th, 2011, 10:07 AM   #17
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Re: FIRST NAMES - Help Needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by newmark401 View Post
V. MacVeagh = Virginia MacVeagh (USA)


)
Thanks Newmark - this is excellent - I am just highlighting Virginia MacVeagh for Rollo as he made reference to her in his analysis.

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Old Jul 24th, 2011, 10:11 AM   #18
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Re: FIRST NAMES - Help Needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
Mark-would you know if this is the same V MacVeagh who won the French nationals and is usually listed as English?

Graham-I think Mark's additions take carea of good portion of your list. if I forget please press me a few days on Mrs Drexel Paul-I have her first name and maiden name on file somewhere.
Hi - oh you preempted my last reply before I saw this - 'great minds think alike' - yes the list is shrinking - thanks again for your support

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Old Jul 24th, 2011, 12:20 PM   #19
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Re: FIRST NAMES - Help Needed

I can't cite sources for either of these, so you probably consider them guesses, but I have:
Theresa D'elva de Kermel
and
Madge Valentine List

Best
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Old Jul 26th, 2011, 02:55 PM   #20
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Re: FIRST NAMES - Help Needed

The archive of "Le Figaro" newspaper has a Mlle d'Elva playing some tennis in the years circa 1903-07. She might have come from the Pyrenees-Atlantiques region in south-west France because she took part a number of times in the tournament held in Pau, the capital of that region.

The only connection I can find between a Mlle d'Elva and the Countess de Kermel is in wikipedia, where the countess is said to have beaten a Mlle d'Elva in the women's singles final at the Closed French Championships in 1907.

Therese Villard (b. 15 June 1874-d. 1955) married Count Olivier de Kermel in Paris, France, on 30 September 1899. That would have made her Countess de Kermel. She would have been 32 or 33 at the time of the 1907 Closed French Championships.

Last edited by newmark401 : Jul 26th, 2011 at 03:03 PM.
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Old Jul 26th, 2011, 03:36 PM   #21
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Re: FIRST NAMES - Help Needed

As for P. Girod, who won the women's singles title at the Closed French Championships in 1901, "Le Figaro" refers to her as "Mme P. Girod", so the P. was probably Pierre or Paul, while the Girod was her married name.

According to "Le Figaro" of 16 June 1901, "The women's singles championship organised by the USFSA was played on the courts of the Societe des Sports on the Ile de Puteaux. It came down to one match, won by Mme Girod, who beat Mlle Leroux, 6-1, 6-1. Mlle Prevost did not turn up."

From this it appears that the women's singles event at the Closed French Championships in 1901 consisted of one match only, played on the courts of the club on the Ile de Puteaux, and won by this P. Girod. Also, Helene Prevost, the holder, did not turn up to defend her title (the Challenge Round seems already to have been in force).

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Old Jul 28th, 2011, 08:17 PM   #22
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Re: FIRST NAMES - Help Needed

Hi Rollo, can I double check that you are 100% sure Mrs Schmitz was infact Augusta Meyer (sister of Freya, listed incorrectly as Freda in the NY Times).

Interestingly I can't find any mention of an Augusta Meyer who played Wimbledon (while Freya did). Was Connie (Constance) any relation to Mrs Schmitz or Freya?

I have found several sources naming the US Nationals challenge round runner-up in 1893 - Augusta Schultz (Mrs Schmitz?) and an Alice Schultze.

Can any Deans shed any light on this maybe? Thanks a million!
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Old Jul 29th, 2011, 08:12 PM   #23
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Re: FIRST NAMES - Help Needed

THE MYSTERY OF MRS SCHMITZ (US Indoor champion 1910) IS FINALLY SOLVED.

For those who are interested, Frederick G. Schmitz was the son of German immigrants, leaving Missouri in 1901 as an 18 year old for England where he met and eventually married Nora Meyer (on Aug 1, 1906 in Richmond) from the wealthy Meyer family living in the affluent suburb of Hampton Wick, near Richmond in West London. They lived complete with a whole array of service staff (if anyone has seen Downton Abbey, you know what I'm talking about) in a very large home.

The Meyers were also German immigrants and produced six daughters, three of whom played at Wimbledon. Cornelia Helen E. (b. 1877) (mistakenly called Connie in the Wimbledon results section on here) the fourth eldest played every year between 1902 and 1907, reaching the quarterfinals in her last year before passing away from a sudden illness four months later at the age of only 30. Frieda Dorothy (b. 1883) was a year older than the youngest Nora, and played at Worple Road in 1905 and 06. Shortly after Nora married Mr. Schmitz and moved to New York where they would remain and the new bride would belatedly take up tennis, developing an unorthadox game of under arm serving and chop shots that rivaled the great Francoise Durr.

In 1910, the Schmitz's would journey back to England for a few months and Nora played Wimbledon for the first time, joining Frieda who had now become Mrs. Nesham, and they would play the singles together again in 1914. Nora had two children, Ronald (in 1908) and Doris (in 1909). Her husband worked as a salesman and they remained in Manhattan. I haven't managed to find out the year she died.

Austinrunner was right about Alice Day becoming Charles Henry Beard... and Mrs Charles Vernon Hitchins was in fact the former Mexican national champion Patricia Butlin. Finding these was like looking for needles in hay stacks going through National Genealogy Records. Why oh why didn't these ladies insist on emancipation sooner so they could be referred to as their proper first names instead of making this ridiculously difficult almost a century later??? ;-)
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Old Jul 29th, 2011, 09:04 PM   #24
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Re: FIRST NAMES - Help Needed

Quote:
Austinrunner was right about Alice Day becoming Charles Henry Beard... and Mrs Charles Vernon Hitchins was in fact the former Mexican national champion Patricia Butlin. Finding these was like looking for needles in hay stacks going through National Genealogy Records. Why oh why didn't these ladies insist on emancipation sooner so they could be referred to as their proper first names instead of making this ridiculously difficult almost a century later??? ;-)
It makes for a good mystery at least. I'm still scratching my head at how I arrived at Augusta.

Speaking of Alice Day (Mrs Beard)-do we know where she hailed from or have any more details? I see results for Mrs Beard from as early as 1909. There is a breif mention in an article stating she was "from Chicago."

Thanks for all the great information John
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Old Jul 30th, 2011, 03:29 AM   #25
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Re: FIRST NAMES - Help Needed

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Originally Posted by SW15sport View Post
Austinrunner was right about Alice Day becoming Charles Henry Beard...
Henry? I'm pretty sure his middle initial was "N."
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Old Jul 30th, 2011, 03:33 AM   #26
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Re: FIRST NAMES - Help Needed

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Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
Speaking of Alice Day (Mrs Beard)-do we know where she hailed from or have any more details? I see results for Mrs Beard from as early as 1909. There is a breif mention in an article stating she was "from Chicago."
I found results from as far back as 1905 for Alice Day Beard.
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F5091EFB3D5A12738DDDA80894DF405B858CF1D3
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Old Jul 30th, 2011, 12:30 PM   #27
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Re: FIRST NAMES - Help Needed

Quote:
I found results from as far back as 1905 for Alice Day Beard.
I see results from 1905 for Jersey girl Alice Day. Do we have know when she married Charles Beard?

Clearly she was married by 1909.
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Old Jul 30th, 2011, 05:36 PM   #28
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Re: FIRST NAMES - Help Needed

According to the 1910 US census Nora Schmitz (estimated birth 1882, the same as her husband) immigrated to the US in 1905. The couple lived in Manhattan Ward 12 and had two women living with them as servants.

The 1920 census alters the info a bit, giving 1883 as the estimated date of birth and 1906 an the year of immigration.
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Old Aug 1st, 2011, 07:11 PM   #29
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Re: FIRST NAMES - Help Needed

Hi Rollo,

according to British Library records Mr & Mrs Schmitz were married in Richmond (about 20 mins from Wimbledon for those who don't know London) on August 1, 1906 and moved after that.

I don't have any more info on Alice Day other than what's been covered, and Austinrunner, apologies for Henry... brainfart on my part. I don't know where that one came from, Freudian slip maybe? ;-))
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Old Oct 24th, 2011, 12:18 PM   #30
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Re: FIRST NAMES - Help Needed

I suspect the Therese Villard de Kermel connection is correct but have no proof (yet!)

In the meantime I've found a picture of Mlle de Kermel
http://www.chansons-net.com/tennis/a.../france-2.html

the text says:
-there are 3 entries in 1897
-only 1 entry in 1898
-in 1900 Prevost wins the final by w/o - [presumably this means Masson did not defend but does not necessarily mean that that Prevost played no matches to get to the final]
-in 1901 there are only 3 entries [Girod, Leroux, and Prevost] but only one match is played since Prevost defaults the [challenge round] final
-in 1907 there are only 3 entries [presumably de Kermel, d'Elva, and GillouFenwick] but only one set is played when d'Elva retires after losing the first set 6-1, and then the finalist [presumably GillouFenwick] does not show for the [challenge round] final
-to drum up interest, the magazine Femina does a feature on K GillouFenwick
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