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Old Jul 1st, 2011, 06:08 PM   #76
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Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

^ To be fair to Lisicki, she played a tactically super-astute game against Bartoli, but that's only 'cause she effectively emulated Flavia's game plan, + she could serve = win. But, her natural instinct is to rip the ball, period. And as far as personality is concerned, there's another area of deficit for you... Seles, Stefi, Vicario, Masha, Capriati, Kim, Fran, Gisela, Flavia, personality and attitude to spare. Include the Williams sisters in the attitude column, not necessarily the personality one. But there's something. The new breed is like 'I'm going to be 'cool'. Whatever that is...
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Old Jul 1st, 2011, 08:14 PM   #77
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Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

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Originally Posted by chmath View Post
^ To be fair to Lisicki, she played a tactically super-astute game against Bartoli, but that's only 'cause she effectively emulated Flavia's game plan, + she could serve = win. ...


Quote:
1) Flavia CAN win a grand-slam in whatever time she has left
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Old Jul 15th, 2011, 01:46 PM   #78
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Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

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Willy you're obsessed with Flavia's power forehand!
Aren't we all obsessed by the motion of tennis, especially when it is performed by beautiful bodies

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Originally Posted by peanuts View Post
Willy you're obsessed with Flavia's power forehand!
that really made me think once more about the forehand

For me as a non-player, Flavias forehand is a riddle. Have you noticed that the full stretched forehand is better than the standing forhand? It is not like she lacks power.

I compare it to Rafa, because the motion of her swing is as short and jagged like his. Other women used to have a wide open swing long before they go into the ball.

And I really think that her long arms is a handicap, too. IMO She has not the right balance and timing during the strike. And now she's hitting a million forehands during the training, with exaclty no result. Kill the coach for that!

Here some photos of her fh. They look so weird to me, because the arm is bent that much:


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Old Jul 15th, 2011, 07:10 PM   #79
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Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

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Originally Posted by wiwa View Post
Aren't we all obsessed by the motion of tennis, especially when it is performed by beautiful bodies


that really made me think once more about the forehand

For me as a non-player, Flavias forehand is a riddle. Have you noticed that the full stretched forehand is better than the standing forhand? It is not like she lacks power.

I compare it to Rafa, because the motion of her swing is as short and jagged like his. Other women used to have a wide open swing long before they go into the ball.

And I really think that her long arms is a handicap, too. IMO She has not the right balance and timing during the strike. And now she's hitting a million forehands during the training, with exaclty no result. Kill the coach for that!

Here some photos of her fh. They look so weird to me, because the arm is bent that much:
I'm not sure what you meant by this?

About the arm being too bent...It is true that sometimes players (not just Flavia) do that especially when they don't have enough time to get into proper position. They are however pros so they can rotate their upper body and get power and balance from their legs to generate enough pace on their swing. Based from those pics, I don't think arm is that close when hitting the shot. Notice how her elbow is not touching her body? Anyways, I'll try to watch more closely the next time I watch her match. It's hard to tell accurately from a few pics.

As for her long arms, the key is to move your legs fast enough to get into the proper position so the ball wouldn't be too close to your body. Having long arms should be good for a tennis player as it gives them more reach.
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Old Jul 15th, 2011, 07:46 PM   #80
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Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

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knew it

I'm not sure what you mean by "hits it late". Do you refer to his skills as a Duracell bunny?
btw I wrote in the Sofa-coaching thread why I compare it with Rafa.
I mean he doesn't hit the ball in front of him. A lot of times he hits (especially when he's pushed way behind the baseline) the ball when it's almost at the side of his body. This is usually why his follow-through (the motion after contact to the ball) is loop over his head. Players with an extreme FH grip like Rafa does this a lot.

ETA: Flavia hits the ball more in front. In the AO 2011 final, the commentators did a comparison of Flavia and Gisela's FH (on the ROS I think) and you can see the difference on their contact point. Gisela with the more extreme grip hits it more late while Flavia tends to hit the ball slightly in front of her. One advantage for Gisela is that it's harder to read where she will place her return as she hits the ball so late.
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Old Jul 15th, 2011, 08:07 PM   #81
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Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by peanuts View Post
I'm not sure what you meant by this?

About the arm being too bent...It is true that sometimes players (not just Flavia) do that especially when they don't have enough time to get into proper position. They are however pros so they can rotate their upper body and get power and balance from their legs to generate enough pace on their swing. Based from those pics, I don't think arm is that close when hitting the shot. Notice how her elbow is not touching her body? Anyways, I'll try to watch more closely the next time I watch her match. It's hard to tell accurately from a few pics.

As for her long arms, the key is to move your legs fast enough to get into the proper position so the ball wouldn't be too close to your body. Having long arms should be good for a tennis player as it gives them more reach.
full streched forehand = she runs to the ball, hardly reaches it, and yet cracks a winner with quite some pace. I suppose it has sth. to do with the stretch.

standing forehand = not running, time to position yourself to the ball and bend your knees. For some reason she struggles to get pace on those shots, while it looks so easy for Roberta and many other players of her size.

I see that her elbow does not touch the body. I compared it with pics of Julia Görges, who has a quite streched swing, so I thought the strech makes a good forehand.

long arms = long reach. @myself

Yeah, you can have a look. I find it interesting. Then we can advise Flavia via twitter
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Old Jul 18th, 2011, 12:17 PM   #82
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Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

Palermo SF: Polona def. Flavia, 6-2 6-2

I finally saw this match...Well I think Flavia did try, she made some aggressive play and hit some of her trademark BH DTL winners but she didn't get too many chances to make them. Polona played quite well and her forehand is working (also did well with that kicker serve) Flavia on the other hand made some loose errors on her FH side. For most of the time, she was on the defensive and even on neutral rallies Polona was outrallying her. She was also a bit late in reacting in some of those short balls that Polona normally produces on her backhand so by the time she gets to the ball all she can muster is a short reply giving Polona all the time to pass her on the net. Another thing I noticed is that she's slower than usual in chasing those dropshots. In the first set she barely got to most of them and whenever she did she just ends up losing the point.

As for her serve, as has been said it was really a bad serving day. It's hard to make headway in a match when winning a point on your serve is an epic struggle. She was spinning most of her serve (incl. some 1st serves) with not much placement and pace, and as a result got punished on the return. It also did not help that Polona had serve well and apart from a handful of returns, Flavia wasn't able to do much on the kicker to her BH as she is usually capable of against this kind of serve (i.e. see her matches against Stosur).
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Old Jul 18th, 2011, 01:18 PM   #83
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Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

i think you totally got the point, but in my humble opinion she really lacked of a true tactic as she seemed to be not awere of opponent's strength and she really never tried to hurt Polona on her BH.
The most scary thing indeed was the ROS. She used to be a great returner mostly against big serves. It's a trade lately that she isn't returning well, rarely hits a winner and most of the time she just push the ball back (and not even always) without any single trace of aggressivness. What really surprised me is that she was great on returning kick serves and even though Polona serves quite well she rarely changed that shot as it was 90% on the time a kick serve on the left (on both deauce and advantage) but flavia never tried to anticipate that shot.
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Old Jul 18th, 2011, 02:30 PM   #84
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Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

At one point they showed a replay of Flavia's ROS (ended up in the net) of Polona's kick serve and you could see that she was late in hitting the ball. The ball had already bounced way above her shoulders and a kick serve is much harder to control if you let it bounced that high. She used to time that ROS so well. Hitting the ball on the rise so it wouldn't get away from her. Now her timing seem to be off and her reflexes both in reacting to medium-high pace rallies and when putting away short balls IMO had become considerably slower.
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Old Jul 18th, 2011, 03:11 PM   #85
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Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

nice pick...i really thought of the same thing, she really lacks on stamina more than power and speed. She seems under a big ammount of work (hopefully it turns out to be like that)
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Old Jul 18th, 2011, 03:23 PM   #86
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Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

Another thing on the strategy on hitting to Polona's BH...I don't think it's as easy to do on clay. Much like Ivanovic, Polona is always ready to run around her BH (or it FH? I always get that term confused ) so she can hit the inside-out FH or go DTL depending on where her opponent is positioned. Clay gives her more time to do this. In this match, Flavia also did not have consistent depth in her BH (as she's hitting from a defensive position a lot of times) which gave Polona even more time to hit her FH.
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Old Jul 18th, 2011, 03:55 PM   #87
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Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

i see and your point is clearly right, but IMO it all was caused by her lack of good foot-work/stamina, she was really too defensive in order to be deep with her shots and don't give the time to run around the ball like Polly did
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Old Jul 18th, 2011, 04:14 PM   #88
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Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

Yeah I do think the footwork/stamina is a factor in why she's hitting way shorter than usual. She seems like she's still a work in progress in this area after the shoulder injury. She's never been one of the fastest players but she used to be good in getting her feet in position when she's not being forced to run miles for a shot. Now she just seems slower in getting ready to hit any kind of shots.
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Old Jul 18th, 2011, 04:18 PM   #89
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Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

totally agree with you. I think now she got in a sort of limbo: she can't close points just by hitting hard from baseline (as she's never been good at that) even if she can hit balls without moving much around the court, but she can't even play her game as she totally lacks of a decent footwork to get into the right place at the right time.
Her netrush is beyond terrible at the moment and that makes it easy for opponents to pass her with ease
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Old Jul 18th, 2011, 04:50 PM   #90
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Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

I hold on to my point that she's under pain killer. It would explain many of your findings. Of course it's not a durable point of mine.

Even if there's no pain killer involved, she is still so impatient and distracted on the court, that it looks like as if. Let's wrap up the psychological situation: she worked hard during the off-season to change her game, late in her career. It worked well in the beginning, but then her body doesn't bear up. Even if she can play now, it is a Sword of Damocles all the time. Not to forget that she already defined the horizon of her career-end, the Olympic games. It's hard to have fun playing tennis under that kind of pressure.
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