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Old Dec 8th, 2009, 06:45 AM   #1501
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Originally Posted by daze11 View Post
that is certainly undeniable... all court wins occur before evert is even a grand slam winner, which is not the confident evert that she would have faced mid-'74 or 1975... which is an enormous jump in ability on chrissie's end of the court. ...end of the 'court'....
DazeDo you think it was a style related issue. I concede that Evert certainly knew at a young age how to beat Court, who was a much better player at least when Evert was young. Do you think it was the relentless style of Evert and her mental tenacity that intimidated Margaret????
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Old Dec 8th, 2009, 06:49 AM   #1502
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
The sad thing is that Chrissie herself is far too modest about her own achievements. On the tennis tv website there's an interview with Navratilova and they ask her if she's the best player of all time. She says, "It would be hard to say no. I feel that at my best I was better than anyone else. I was as fast as anybody, I was as strong as anybody and I had more shots. Steffi Graf says that I'm the greatest, so who am I to argue?" When during a conversation with Connors he asked her whether she would have been afraid to take on the Williams sisters she said, "Absolutely not."

Compared to Martina Chrissie does a rather poor job of selling herself in my opinion. Asked about how she would do against the current players the answer is always something like, "the're bigger and stronger than me, I doubt if I would be in the top 10" and more of that kinda talk. Part of that no doubt has to do with the fact that she wants to put womens tennis, and thus also the current players in as positive a light as possible, but it's nevertheless a bit annoying. If anything, seems to me that if both Martina and Chrissie were to play today that Martina as a serve and volleyer would have a lot more adjusting to do than Chris.
Interesting post. How are you?I agree with you re Evert but she kinda was like that when she was playing. She definitely sold herself short even at her peak when she discussed the merits of a Goolagong or Navratilova vis a vis herself. I think it was just an appreciation that she has for those who play a different game than herself. But for me she is the most beautiful example of a perfect baseline player I have ever seen. I just wish she would understand that this is how she is regarded. Modesty is nice to a degree but she is a great player- could be the greatest I concede.
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Old Dec 8th, 2009, 06:54 AM   #1503
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Originally Posted by daze11 View Post
i too wish chris would just fight with facts and stay clear of conjecture as a way of discussing her place in history, but again, she thinks its almost obscene to have a record that most players cant even begin to dream about much less live, and therefore to fight for extra shreds of credit after the fact...she's just not going to do that.

chris serves on over 12 boards for incredible causes, but how many does the public know about? almost none. she is extremely generous but does not like to take credit for things. again, she has had enough spotlight on her to satiate every bit of 'pay attention to me' impulse she will ever have.

i figured out a while back that we cant love her for her modesty and graciousness, and then be too irritated by it when those qualities dont produce the results WE want. she has ALWAYS let her tennis do the talking. she didnt question line calls either; she let everyone else worry about that...she got on with winning. this issue is a reflection of that.

martina on the other hand will eat your hand if you stick it near her 'record collection' as it were... having seen both up close, i can tell you i prefer chrissie's non-desperate approach. ...though like i said, i do wish she would simply use facts to non-braggardly state her case.

it should be noted martina may have been an only child? chrissie has 4 siblings who were all ranked junior champions, so she is more sensitive to not rubbing her accomplishments in people's faces because of the diplomacy she had to show at home.

but she's also just not an ego-maniac. on a retirement program in 1989, she said, "people tell me how much i've done for tennis but i always want to say 'look at what tennis has done for me.' i was a shy little girl in a small town and it got me traveling all around the world, being exposed to different cultures, lifestyles, and ideas... so if I could be remembered in the same breath as billie jean king and margaret court, i am thrilled with that."
DazeShe really is a remarkable woman isnt she? I guess that she has a degree of modesty that we cant appreciate and that she is her own person. I like the analogy about her status with siblings, that could explain a lot about her modesty actually. And then add in the marriage to Lloyd, during which she was amazingly diplomatic in protecting his reputation when others were ready to decry him for his relative failure. I appreciate what she says but cant you tell her how we all think of her here???
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Old Dec 8th, 2009, 06:56 AM   #1504
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Originally Posted by Wimbledon9 View Post
Martina has a sister who is 6,7 years younger she also played tennis but had difficulties with the authorities after Martina defected so Martina is not an only child although Jana is her halfsister but do not mention it to both of them they are sisters after all they have the same mother and that is the most important.
I guess though that Navratilova was well gone from Janas life by the time the latter started to play tennis, while Evert still had siblings about her. Particularly the relationship with Jeanne would have called for a great deal of subtelty from Chrissie.
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Old Dec 8th, 2009, 06:57 AM   #1505
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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interesting... but ok, far enough in years where she probably didnt have to worry about stepping on her sibling's toes! though it sounds like not an easy situation anyway.
DazeWell I never, so we can agree on somethings!!!
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Old Dec 8th, 2009, 07:03 AM   #1506
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Originally Posted by DennisFitz View Post
Agree! Evert was able to challenge, and beat Court, even though Margaret was well established as the best player in the world in the first half of the 1970s. Injury or not, Evert was still the only player to beat Margaret in a major in 1973. And it was on grass as well. Two of Evert's losses in majors that year were to Court - both tough 3 setters. Evert certainly could and should have wont he French final. And Margaret was the better grass courter, so it was not a surprise that Court beat her at Forest Hills.

But they were 12 years apart in age, so they would never have been able to compete against each other during their primes.

The main reason I rate Evert above Court is this: Both won "only" 3 Wimbledon titles. Chris has always felt she should have won more. But seriously, Evert played in the Court/Goolagong/King/Navratilova era. She beat every one of them at Wimbledon. Margaret had Bueno, King, and Anne Jones to contend with. But i felt Margaret came up short in a venue you would have expected her to win more, considering she hardly ever lost on grass Down Under, and also copped 5 titles at Forest Hills, and dozens of other grass court events.

Finally, I will continue to challenge any assessment that would have had Tracy Austin challenging the Evert/Navratilova duo in the 1980s. Tracy - apart from her little streak against Chris in late 1979/early 1980 - never dominated those two. Even if she didn't have injuries her body would never have been able to survive the onslaught of power that came with graphite racquets. Austin was really a player from the wood generation.
Dennis I know what you mean to an extent but what was Evert if not a player of the wood generation? Of course she was brilliant with graphite as well. Although dont tell Daze that!!I think the Austin legacy was tragically so short it is difficult to fully evaluate. As far as Court at Wimbledon is concerned you are correct to a large degree. However there were a lot more players of calibre around in the 60s than BJK, Bueno and Jones for Margaret to deal with. I would suggest the weakest era for in depth competition was actually from 82 to 87 when Graf emerged.
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Old Dec 8th, 2009, 03:23 PM   #1507
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Originally Posted by iainmac View Post
DazeDo you think it was a style related issue. I concede that Evert certainly knew at a young age how to beat Court, who was a much better player at least when Evert was young. Do you think it was the relentless style of Evert and her mental tenacity that intimidated Margaret????
a lot in tennis, as in life, is psychological. people generally know that but assume the 'realm of the psychological' is confined to your attitude about your winning prospects & confidence etc. ... but it also relates to the energy you get & interpret from across the net.

Court is a grown woman, a decorated champion, now a grand slam winner. here is a skinny 15-year old kid from a nearby local town (ie, court is australian playing in a foreign country, and chris is an unknown 'local' even though she is not from Charlotte, North Carolina but florida.) But the girl has a sense of natural deserving of winning about her, a calm and certainty that defy her years. A dynamic begins there. And after chris wins the first encounter, she wins another 2 times again before court beats her (when they meet on grass) ...and anyone who has seen the 73 french final knows court didnt win but chris lost from an unreadiness to be a slam winner. that was one time court used her knowledge of the psychological hurdle that was on evert's plate to her advantage. rightly or wrongly, thats the only credit i gave her for that particular win.

but the confidence and self-belief evert had, i think, dug into court a tad who always struggled with that herself. and chrissie always making her play an extra ball by always getting it back asked the question, 'how confident ARE you?' and court had to really pace herself and her mental energies when facing chris in order to beat her. but fighting a war of attrition with evert is a tough task to say the least.

i have always felt chris fought a similar battle with navratilova, but with the roles slightly reversed. chrissie's sense of glory was to be the best she could be, and that did involve beating anyone in her path. but it was still an inner impulse. martina had a desperation to prove herself, almost a cry of 'see mom? i MADE it!' ...which is the other side of the coin when people lament how much martina went through. it also bolstered her to a need beyond normal measures to beat down all voices against her and prove herself.

desperation is the one quality that is totally foreign to chris. i think she was thrown off by this willingness to dispense with all niceties and friendships etc in order to enter the 'kill chris' phase. and when confronted with the grabbing for the goodies off the table, she'd offer some resistance but in the end was not that desperate. she was the woman who said, 'no point is worth falling down for' which meant she planned to win the next two. but again, it reflects inner belief, not desperation. desperation is like life threatening in severity... i really believe this helped give her a psychological edge over chris at a certain stage that evert had a hard time working through before she finally broke the spell.
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Old Dec 8th, 2009, 10:25 PM   #1508
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

new pix of chris up from today's photo shoot - this is her facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Chris-....2963749621..1
she will communicate with fans through this page when she's traveling around, etc...so 'fan' her to be involved.
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Old Dec 8th, 2009, 10:31 PM   #1509
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

Daze-please read through the "Homebase" thread and let me know if you are interested. If not maybe some other Evert fan would like to help us out?
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Old Dec 8th, 2009, 10:54 PM   #1510
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Interesting post. How are you?I agree with you re Evert but she kinda was like that when she was playing. She definitely sold herself short even at her peak when she discussed the merits of a Goolagong or Navratilova vis a vis herself. I think it was just an appreciation that she has for those who play a different game than herself. But for me she is the most beautiful example of a perfect baseline player I have ever seen.
Her modesty is truly admirable, but it would have been fun if she had occasionally, or maybe even just once brought out her inner Hingis so to speak.
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Old Dec 8th, 2009, 11:16 PM   #1511
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Originally Posted by daze11 View Post
new pix of chris up from today's photo shoot - this is her facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Chris-....2963749621..1
she will communicate with fans through this page when she's traveling around, etc...so 'fan' her to be involved.
Evert still looks smoking. Thanks!
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Old Dec 9th, 2009, 12:09 AM   #1512
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

She looks great but may not look so happy when she sees photos of Greg in Australia with a blond woman..Daily Mail don't know who she is...
Daze, What was the photoshoot for ? Was it taken at her house ?
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Old Dec 9th, 2009, 03:24 AM   #1513
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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She looks great but may not look so happy when she sees photos of Greg in Australia with a blond woman..Daily Mail don't know who she is...
Daze, What was the photoshoot for ? Was it taken at her house ?
simply smart milk -- just added the one she sent from the feedback on the monitor after shooting!
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Old Dec 9th, 2009, 03:32 AM   #1514
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Evert still looks smoking. Thanks!
ha! you should post that comment there! i'm sure she wont mind!
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Old Dec 9th, 2009, 07:29 AM   #1515
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Originally Posted by daze11 View Post
a lot in tennis, as in life, is psychological. people generally know that but assume the 'realm of the psychological' is confined to your attitude about your winning prospects & confidence etc. ... but it also relates to the energy you get & interpret from across the net.

Court is a grown woman, a decorated champion, now a grand slam winner. here is a skinny 15-year old kid from a nearby local town (ie, court is australian playing in a foreign country, and chris is an unknown 'local' even though she is not from Charlotte, North Carolina but florida.) But the girl has a sense of natural deserving of winning about her, a calm and certainty that defy her years. A dynamic begins there. And after chris wins the first encounter, she wins another 2 times again before court beats her (when they meet on grass) ...and anyone who has seen the 73 french final knows court didnt win but chris lost from an unreadiness to be a slam winner. that was one time court used her knowledge of the psychological hurdle that was on evert's plate to her advantage. rightly or wrongly, thats the only credit i gave her for that particular win.

but the confidence and self-belief evert had, i think, dug into court a tad who always struggled with that herself. and chrissie always making her play an extra ball by always getting it back asked the question, 'how confident ARE you?' and court had to really pace herself and her mental energies when facing chris in order to beat her. but fighting a war of attrition with evert is a tough task to say the least.

i have always felt chris fought a similar battle with navratilova, but with the roles slightly reversed. chrissie's sense of glory was to be the best she could be, and that did involve beating anyone in her path. but it was still an inner impulse. martina had a desperation to prove herself, almost a cry of 'see mom? i MADE it!' ...which is the other side of the coin when people lament how much martina went through. it also bolstered her to a need beyond normal measures to beat down all voices against her and prove herself.

desperation is the one quality that is totally foreign to chris. i think she was thrown off by this willingness to dispense with all niceties and friendships etc in order to enter the 'kill chris' phase. and when confronted with the grabbing for the goodies off the table, she'd offer some resistance but in the end was not that desperate. she was the woman who said, 'no point is worth falling down for' which meant she planned to win the next two. but again, it reflects inner belief, not desperation. desperation is like life threatening in severity... i really believe this helped give her a psychological edge over chris at a certain stage that evert had a hard time working through before she finally broke the spell.
DazeThat was fascinating and perceptive into the Evert psyche. I guess Court felt the sheer self belief and at the same time mentally balanced approach to the game. Court I believe was always questioned re this- famously here in the United Kingdom she took a journalist to court once for questioning her mental equilibrium. Navratilova was as you say desperate, but with her background and lifestyle I think that is understandable and normal actually.
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