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38K views 571 replies 92 participants last post by  Anabelcroft 
#1 · (Edited)
Dead thread, please close.
 
#357 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

Cali...:lol: I mean, let it go. The thread has run it's course..how long you gonna go with this?! Graf is in the GOAT conversation, heck most probably think she's the goat. Let it go already. :lol:
 
#360 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

Cali...:lol: I mean, let it go. The thread has run it's course..how long you gonna go with this?! Graf is in the GOAT conversation, heck most probably think she's the goat. Let it go already. :lol:

Maybe I'm not hip enough, daft, or haven't been on Tennis Forum long enough. But what does "Cali" mean or stand for? I've seen you write that before.

And please don't say California. :lol: And if so, please tell me why. :lol:
 
#384 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

I just don't see how can anyone dispute Graf's greatness with or without loving her as a player

some things are just obvious,proven and nobody can dispute that.
Marc, here "greatness" is not in question, her "slam count" is tainted, not her "greatness"..
 
#394 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

Steffi Graf faced inferior competition once Seles got stabbed in 1993 that is why her 22 slams get overlooked. Arantxa, Mary Joe Fernandez, Sabatini, Novotna, were not mentally and physically strong to consistently beat Steffi. Monica was the only woman NOT afraid of Steffi and she knew it. The other top WTA players lacked something extra so once Monica was out of the way Steffi was able to dominate a weaker competition.
 
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#409 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

Graf fans are the most hypocritical bunch of all the tennis fans.


First they try to downplay the stabbing incident ( more like attempted murder) by stating that, we have to accept the fact that Steffi ended up with 22 majors and that is futile and pointless to speculate , "what might have been."

They then do the classical 180, and state that Margaret Court's 24 majors should not be given it's due because of "depleted fields".

Basically they want to have one's cake and eat it too, by FORCING PEOPLE TO ACCEPT THE LEGITIMACY OF HER SLAMS AND AT THE SAME TIME DICREDITING HER CONTENDER'S ACHIEVEMENTS. :rolleyes::mad::(:fiery:
Aditya,nobody is forcing anyone to accept anything if one doesn't want to,that's your choice,but also nobody can deny something that is proven.

One thing is to like something or not and the other is to admit it!

One may or may not like the fact that Graf is recognized as the greatest player,but the ones who don't like can just don't like it,as they can't deny something that is universally proven,as this.

And as I said,nobody denies Court's GS titles,but just says that they are not comparable as they were not played under same conditions.You just can't compare winning a 32 players draw Slam in which you have a first round bye with 128 players draw Slam where you have to win all 7 matches with no bye in it.

So,nobody takes anything away,just say that is not comparable!And that's why Court,even though a great player has often been overlooked.
 
#420 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

You know, you all can sit around here and tell each other the BS. The fact of the matter is the MOTIVE of the STABBER was to advance Graf. You all saying you all know more than the person that stabbed Seles. You are saying the stabber is lying. If you are not, and you are agreeing that it did advance Graf, you cannot say or measure to what degree. Therefore, and no fault of her own, everything after that is looked at with a judicous eye. As sinster as the stabbing was, I wouldn't put it past Graf's father to concoct something like this. Oh, yeah..

Then we have the part of the stabber dam near being let scott free!! In a GERMAN COURT!!

Please, no response, I can't stand it anymore.. I am ready to go out and find a roof and screeeeeeeemmmmm!! ;)
 
#421 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

You know, you all can sit around here and tell each other the BS. The fact of the matter is the MOTIVE of the STABBER was to advance Graf. You all saying you all know more than the person that stabbed Seles. You are saying the stabber is lying. If you are not, and you are agreeing that it did advance Graf, you cannot say or measure to what degree. Therefore, and no fault of her own, everything after that is looked at with a judicous eye. As sinster as the stabbing was, I wouldn't put it past Graf's father to concoct something like this. Oh, yeah..

Then we have the part of the stabber dam near being let scott free!! In a GERMAN COURT!!

Please, no response, I can't stand it anymore.. I am ready to go out and find a roof and screeeeeeeemmmmm!! ;)
Once again, you're over simplifying it (there was so much going on-true and not true, before and after), and mindlessly repeating the miscellaneous rambling of a crazy man. And of course, you ignore, if you even care to know, everything Monica (the aggrieved party) said/says. Just stop. :lol:
 
#449 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

People still think of her as perfect athlete Lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHMaZOd5TCg

:) :wavey:
Yup, the Nazi were famous for saying they are perfect!! If Hitler could have had a Gunther back in 1936, he would have surely stabbed Jesse Owens.. Ditto for Joe Loius when he fought Max Schelling. All from the Master Race of Germany..
 
#465 ·
#474 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

i shit in the career of steffi graf. like her husband, she was forced into tennis by her father, and hated the sport. she has said several times that she wouldn't want her children playing the sport that afforded her the life of luxury and lead to the meeting of her "husband".

Steffi never gave a damn about the WTA. she was a taker. that's why no one cared when she left.
 
#475 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

i shit in the career of steffi graf. like her husband, she was forced into tennis by her father, and hated the sport. she has said several times that she wouldn't want her children playing the sport that afforded her the life of luxury and lead to the meeting of her "husband".

Steffi never gave a damn about the WTA. she was a taker. that's why no one cared when she left.
Yeah, think this is it. Graf was always very sour.
 
#484 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

Graf was the rightful GOAT until this year but now she has been demoted to 2nd place behind Queen Serena. No shame in that, most would love to be the 2nd best player of all time. Were it not for the racism that kept black women out of tennis for so long she would probably only be 20th since everyone knows the blacks are usually the best athletes, but oh well, it is what it is. She would still be the best white player ever even in that case.
 
#485 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

Graf was the rightful GOAT until this year but now she has been demoted to 2nd place behind Queen Serena.
Sorry I have to disagree (again in this thread :hysteric:). Serena still has to catch up with Martina and Chrissie before I (personally) begin to even consider her as GOAT - and even then, I'm not sure that's enough.

Still. At the rate she is going I'm not going to bet against her. 2013 is going to be extremely interesting.
 
#493 · (Edited)
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

Prime to prime Serena overpowers Graf. Much superior serve and service return, much stronger backhand, when it is on just as good a forehand, better volleys, arguably even better movement when fit, and more mental strenght. No contest in their primes.
:haha:

Says who?Ohhh,you in your 5 posts from a new made profile :haha:


First,you must realize that what ever you wish is not going to be that easy as:


-Graf has more Slams ( 22 > 15 ) and Serena would need 8 more to surpass Graf

-Golden Slam while Serena has only Career Golden Grand Slam

-Graf has more(consecutive) weeks as number 1 ( 377 and 186 > 123 and 57 )

-even at this point Graf has almost same amount of career losses as Serena and several hundred more wins,which means much,much better career win/loss % ( 88.7% > 83% )

-has no negative H2H against any other world number 1 player she played against(unlike Serena)

-has won every GS title minimum 4 times on every surface(while Serena has only 1 RG)

-Graf has been more times Year End Number 1 ( 8 > 2 )

-Graf has won both Calendar and Non-Calendar Slam while Serena only has Non-Calendar one

-Graf has won more consecutive Grand Slam titles then Serena ( 5 > 4 )

-Graf has reached more consecutive GS finals then Serena ( 13 > 4 )

-Graf has better win/loss % then Serena in every single individual Grand Slam tournament

-Graf has won more then double times more career titles then Serena ( 107 > 45 )

-Graf has at least 4 dominant seasons which are better then Serena's very best one

-Graf has more matches winning streak then Serena ( 66 > 19 )

-Graf has won more Year End Championship titles ( 5 > 2 )

-Graf even has better Year End Championship win/loss % ( for those who say that Serena hasn't played that much there)

and so on...so dream on! :lol:
 
#488 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

Who were Graf's main rivals in her career:

Seles- not great mover, not good defender, not the serve of Graf or Seles, no variety, no all court game.

Sanchez- defensive player, no power.

Martinez- same.

Novotna- choker, no ground game, stiff looking game.

Navratilova- old.
 
#489 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

I don't think she's overlooked, LMAO margeret court is the one who gets ignored all the time :haha:

graf's on 22 slams, even taking into account the seles stabbing, she'd still be ahead of serena on slams as it stands. IMO serena needs to win at least 18 slams to geniunely put herself as no.1 on the GOAT contender's list, but at the moment she's 'just' a contender.
 
#490 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

Yes Graf would definitely have more slams than Serena's 15 even without the stabbing. Heck even Seles might have 15 (I doubt it, I think 13 area is more likely). That is not the point. Serena faces a way deeper field than Graf or Seles. Tons of great players. You have Venus, Henin, Davenport, Hingis, Sharapova, the list goes on and on. The old days was always the same, two stars and a bunch of hacks. The Evert-Navratilova era was even worse, how shit must the other women be for 2 people to play 80 times.
 
#494 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

Serena,as fantastic player as she is,will find it very hard indeed to surpass all those records to trump Graf.

Theoretically it's possible,as she would have to play for 4-5 years of flawless tennis,but it seems very unlikely.

As someone said,she first has to pass that very high bar set by Evert and Navratilova,but even if she reaches 18 GS titles,their other records are just sublimely huge compared to hers so far.

But let's hope for the best as she is just hugely talented to resist the time and go further.
 
#498 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

Serena,as fantastic player as she is,will find it very hard indeed to surpass all those records to trump Graf.

Theoretically it's possible,as she would have to play for 4-5 years of flawless tennis,but it seems very unlikely.

As someone said,she first has to pass that very high bar set by Evert and Navratilova,but even if she reaches 18 GS titles,their other records are just sublimely huge compared to hers so far.
Agree with you on that,as those numbers are just insane.

And Serena had ups and downs in her career that disabled her so far to get close to them.
 
#503 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

Had Navratilova been stabbed in 1979 Chris Evert would probably have won close to 30 slams and she would be GOAT (She won 18 but lost 10 F and 4 SF to Martina and let's face it she wasn't really likely to lose to anyone else in the 1979-1985 period). Like it or not, other than grass, Steffi wasn't dominating and Monica was the clear number 1 at the time of the stabbing and that's why people question Graf's standing as the GOAT. Of course nobody knows what would have happened in either case but it will always be a cloud.
 
#504 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

Had Navratilova been stabbed in 1979 Chris Evert would probably have won close to 30 slams and she would be GOAT (She won 18 but lost 10 F and 4 SF to Martina and let's face it she wasn't really likely to lose to anyone else in the 1979-1985 period). Like it or not, other than grass, Steffi wasn't dominating and Monica was the clear number 1 at the time of the stabbing and that's why people question Graf's standing as the GOAT. Of course nobody knows what would have happened in either case but it will always be a cloud.
Chrissie doesn't even believe this logic, and has said so publically herself. :lol:

But I hear ya, get your point.
 
#549 ·
Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

Enough insults.

I've deleted one apiece. Next step is closing the thread and infracting guilty parties.
 
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