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Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
The last volume has passed 5000 posts, time to start a new one.

 
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#2,285 ·
I dont understand what happened, except maybe the Kerber match wore her out?
Otherwise, I dont know why the competitive fight isnt there her last 3 tournaments, all 3 where she's had good results.
Maybe playing a tournament hard wears her out, so she only has a good event every few months.
Otherwise, I cant make a rational reason why her form stays so down for such a long time, between short positive spurts
 
#2,290 ·
Mentally yes? It has to be pretty dragging when you game consistently lets you down and you have to fight so hard to win. Caro is fighting an uphill battle from the beginning. When you take a match like the one vs Carla Suarez Navarro, it looks like she's thinking "here we go again" when down a set, rather than I am going to win this match.

The answers are tough, they either have to come from her and a heavy commitment (mental application), but it's questionable whether she can do that week after week. Or there has to be more belief/confidence in what she's doing, that doesn't come from her though, that comes from what she's being told to do etc.
 
#2,287 ·
Is it trust that Caro in France now Training with Darren Cahill ?
 
#2,293 ·
Yes this is possibly the only good thing that is coming out of these events. With the top tier so dominant and hogging so many of the points, it's making it very difficult for players to actually post good weeks to catch up (like Caro's IW F). Caro could do with the players above her winning everything, making finals in the upcoming weeks.

On the flip side the race does look slightly better than it is in actuality. Caro has played 10 events. You can only count 16 at the end of the year. It's estimated that you will need around 4000 points to make Istanbul, meaning an average of about 250 points per your top 16 events.

For reference the full race is :-

1. Maria Sharapova 3465
2. Victoria Azarenka 3350
3. Serena Williams 3060
4. Li Na 2450
5. Agnieszka Radwanska 2355
6. Sara Errani 1831
7. Caroline Wozniacki 1668
8. Petra Kvitova 1626
9. Angelique Kerber 1532
10. Sloane Stephens 1367
11. Jelena Jankovic 1336
12. Maria Kirilenko 1281
13. Roberta Vinci 1222
14. Mona Barthel 1077
15. Svetlana Kuznetsova 946
 
#2,289 ·
my friend and i are also caro's fans.

sometimes we think maybe caro think that, her career is almost perfect, she want GS, but even if she can't get one at last, she still has an amazing career, she's year end number for 2 years.

she is rich, she had reached many ppl's goal for their whole life, travel around the world, being famous, has a good bf, has nice cars and house, provide good life for her parents, and most important, live her dream.

maybe we will never see the caro in 2009/2010/2011, since caro may not have the motivation to do that again, when she's on court now, i can only feel that she wanna left asap.

just wanna share some of my opinion.
 
#2,291 ·
I agree. She gives the impression that she doesnt care now that she has money.
Losing the last 5 games to Voegele, with a wide open draw at a tournament she won the last time she played.
Then she spends the whole week at the Masters. Shows up in Stuttgart and plays one set hard, then gets a breadstick, in the softest quarter of the draw.

It doesnt look like she's motivated. She's giving those signals loud and clear
 
#2,299 ·
For reference #8 in the last 4 years (basically since the points system changed) :-

2012 Na Li 4726
2011 Agnieszka Radwanska 4940
2010 Jelena Jankovic 4236
2009 Jelena Jankovic 3555

So my 4000 estimate may have been a little low.

EDIT - Thankyou KleineBiere :yeah:. So effectively the race didn't look too different to how it does right now.
 
#2,300 ·
Right, she's already played 10 events. Got points at IW & Dubai.
If last year is an indicater, she probably wont get a lot of points until after Wimbledon. She needs a decent run on hardcourt to make the YEC

The way its set up, early losses in Stuttgart, Charleston, Brisbane, Sydney wont hurt, if she has better results later in the year
 
#2,301 ·
If you ignore the events that won't count in the end Caro is averaging just over 250 points per event which looks to be around the average required to make Istanbul. The down side to this is the majority of this year has been played on her best surface. Keeping that average through Madrid, Rome, French Open and Wimbledon seems like it is going to be tough.
 
#2,302 ·
They go back to her best surface after Wimbledon. Weak AO & Miami, but Brisbane, Sydney, Malaysia, Charleston, Stuttgart wont hurt.
Probably wont do well in Madrid, French Open, Wimbledon, but plenty of opportunities after that
 
#2,303 ·
^ I don't think she had an Weak Aussie open she had an tough draw, don't get me wrong I think we all like too see her go through to the QF but Sveta no walkover I think all top 10 players don't wanna see a player like Sveta in there draw. Another Players that top 10 players don't wanna see in there draw will be Venus williams, & We have too remember she did go too three set with Sveta so they fought hard and also she had too play Sabine in the first round her draw was hell hard IMO. Outta all the event she played this year so far I mostly mad about Malaysia, Charleston, Stuttgart, & Miami those were draw she had easy rounds and could made deep run into those events, She did goo in IW, Dubai & Doha
 
#2,304 ·
If she's ever going to win a major, it will probably be AO or USO. So any of those 2 majors where she loses before playing a seed, I would call that weak.
Beat Lisicki, but I saw the 3rd set and Sabine can play much better than that
 
#2,306 ·
The AO was ok-ish in that we half expected a disaster and that didn't happen. Fourth round - not bad, but the Caro of old would have gotten past Kuzzy. As far as the claycourt season goes, be prepared for some more suffering. But I don't know why, but I have a feeling that with the right draw she could exceed our expectations on the grass and make a deep run at Wimbledon. Perhaps last 16 or even QF. What will happen after that is still too far in the future to speculate. Let's hope that by then there's reason to be optimistic. :)
 
#2,305 ·
Yes i think she going win a Major as well one day sometime I think she might win it on her worst surface at RG, But too Play Sabine & Kuzzy is a tough as draw & even if she got through that she would had Vika, & DOn't get me wrong she got too learn how beat player like this on daily basic but this was one draw that wasn't in her favor. The draw kinda put U in Mind of Radwańska draw last year at the French Open where Aga had too play Venus then Kuznetsova, then Ivanović/Errani, THen in the QF Aga would played Kerber
 
#2,307 ·
^ I think so too I think she make even make a deep run at RG
 
#2,308 ·
Gee,according to post #2298,Caro was ranked higher LAST year in the YEC race and still missed.Here I was feeling optimistic about YEC but,in the end,it's up to Caro.If she really wants the big prize(s),then she'll push herself and find a way:cool:
 
#2,310 ·
Ideally she needs about 1000 points from this clay and grass court season.
She's doomed then :lol::bigcry: , it's not that she's not capable, we all know she's not that bad on clay, in fact I'd say pretty decent when's she playing well in general. A couple of years ago she was giving Maria a tough time in the SF of Rome, it's just that her head isn't there which obviously affects her whole game, she has no raw power to rely on.

That said, I hope she surprises us, with some decent result, be it in Madrid, RG, Eastbourne or Wimbledon.
 
#2,312 ·
There are probably none of you who agree with me,but I think that the WTA sub-culture can't help but play a part in impacting Caro's attitude(though I can't say to what degree,perhaps it's only a minor one),and DEFINITELY some of the lazy gals'.

For example,Peyton Manning had been one of the elite NFL QBs for years,even putting up some ridiculous stats that equaled HOF'ers.However,when he kept falling short of the Super Bowl,even commentators who liked him would shake their heads when his talented teams came up short prior to his finally winning a ring.Then you've got Tony Gonzalez who's the record-holder in most categories for the tight end position.He's a certain first-ballot Hall-of-Famer and usually does okay,individually,when he reaches the playoffs...but he was devastated when his #1-seeded team lost in the conference title game.

There was no Stacy Allaster or b.s. propaganda team to coddle Manning or Gonzalez after those disappointing defeats...and,despite their great skill and intense effort and work ethics,they haven't been treated as equals with the players who HAVE won multiple titles....I can't imagine how different the NFL might be if talented underachievers were pampered and treated as if they legends...as with the WTA where a joke and fraud is treated as if she were Steffi Graf's equal by virtue of their both being former #1s.If you're lauded as a queen and a mega-star of the sport even when you refuse to get a fitness coach....and get winded after the 1st set...and almost never do jack squat at Slams...then why should ANYone work hard?:shrug:...especially if her face is pretty enough to be popular for promo use?
 
#2,314 ·
There was no Stacy Allaster or b.s. propaganda team to coddle Manning or Gonzalez after those disappointing defeats...and,despite their great skill and intense effort and work ethics,they haven't been treated as equals with the players who HAVE won multiple titles....I can't imagine how different the NFL might be if talented underachievers were pampered and treated as if they legends...as with the WTA where a joke and fraud is treated as if she were Steffi Graf's equal by virtue of their both being former #1s.If you're lauded as a queen and a mega-star of the sport even when you refuse to get a fitness coach....and get winded after the 1st set...and almost never do jack squat at Slams...then why should ANYone work hard?:shrug:...especially if her face is pretty enough to be popular for promo use?
Because ultimately that want, that desire for success has to come from you. Someone telling you to get your ass in gear will only go so far. You look at Serena and Sharapova, both very rich, both suffered injuries that could have ended their careers, but both are very driven and determined to reach the top. That reaction to adversity has to come from you.
 
#2,318 ·
Yes,I agree with you on a fundamental level,but let's broaden our perspective here.You're correct if you're implying that the elite players are the most important,yet there are HUNDREDs of gals who compete in WTA and ITF events,at various skill levels,and it's no good if ONLY the elite act like they give a shit.Just take a look at Vinci,for example,and what a hard-working gal she seems to be.She'll probably never get the ultimate payoff with a singles Slam title...and she'll never get the endorsement deals that prettier gals get...but DAMN she fights to get the most out of her limited God-given talent,even withOUT the promise of a big reward.

And THAT's my point;even if someone lacks the killer instinct of a Ree or Sharapova,she can still be a professional as Vinci and so many other gals are...but I'm seeing a WTA that ENCOURAGES the half-assing that you get from Lisicki and Ana...and I'm quite sure that someone like Bouchard--and maybe other young beauties--has noticed how much the WTA will offer their B.S. propaganda to PRETEND that a shallow ditz is a profound,magnificent human being.You're right that the WTA can't instill that champions' drive that exists only in a rare few,but they can at least make it known that they won't pamper,or even PROMOTE,someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about the quality of the product.I'm biased,of course,though I'd like to think that Caroline doesn't yet belong to the Worst Offenders list...and hopefully she never will
 
#2,320 ·
Yes,I agree with you on a fundamental level,but let's broaden our perspective here.You're correct if you're implying that the elite players are the most important,yet there are HUNDREDs of gals who compete in WTA and ITF events,at various skill levels,and it's no good if ONLY the elite act like they give a shit.Just take a look at Vinci,for example,and what a hard-working gal she seems to be.She'll probably never get the ultimate payoff with a singles Slam title...and she'll never get the endorsement deals that prettier gals get...but DAMN she fights to get the most out of her limited God-given talent,even withOUT the promise of a big reward.

And THAT's my point;even if someone lacks the killer instinct of a Ree or Sharapova,she can still be a professional as Vinci and so many other gals are...but I'm seeing a WTA that ENCOURAGES the half-assing that you get from Lisicki and Ana...and I'm quite sure that someone like Bouchard--and maybe other young beauties--has noticed how much the WTA will offer their B.S. propaganda to PRETEND that a shallow ditz is a profound,magnificent human being.You're right that the WTA can't instill that champions' drive that exists only in a rare few,but they can at least make it known that they won't pamper,or even PROMOTE,someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about the quality of the product.I'm biased,of course,though I'd like to think that Caroline doesn't yet belong to the Worst Offenders list...and hopefully she never will
It's not particularly the WTA encouraging half-assing. They are just using the girls they think are best for promo's which tends to be based on looks, whether this is correct is debateable. But it's not like being a promo girl is the doom. Everytime I go on the WTA website for months I am greeted by a Maria Sharapova 40-love campaign. Sharapova is heavily involved in their promo stuff, yet she is still driven. The drive has to come from the player ultimately (I know my posts may sound like I am a Sharapova fan but I am not lol). Ultimately it's down to the player, do you want to be the best possible player you can be, or are you happy to cash in on your looks and fame. I don't actually agree with a lot of WTA's promotional work either, but I'm not sure how much of a factor it is in players downfalls either. If a player is half-assing that is their fault, not the WTA's.

The WTA take a very neutral stance on everything. They literally never mention anything remotely negative in their reports. For one I guess they don't want to upset any of the players. It's slightly different to a team sport whereby you are playing for a team in an organisation. In tennis you are playing under the organisation, so I can see why the WTA want to stay on all the players good sides.
 
#2,322 ·
I would argue that it depends on the outcome. If a coach tells her to "get her ass in gear" in a way that motivates her and causes her results to dramatically improve I would classify that as very successful coaching.
 
#2,329 ·
The WTA also want to stay on the players good sides. If you alienate a player, and then that player goes on to become number 1 or something, you are left in a very awkward situation. It's not really in their interests to say anything remotely controversial.

In other news, Madrid another Premier Mandatory with crap coverage next week :eek:. I think we get 4 WTA matches a day from Monday, of course the first round is Saturday and Sunday.
 
#2,330 ·
The WTA wants as many stars as possible. Having a top 10 player from 10 different countries is what they want.
But they really want another star from China, a young player coming up. Thats the big financial prize, if it happens.
 
#2,342 ·
The WTA wants as many stars as possible. Having a top 10 player from 10 different countries is what they want.
But they really want another star from China, a young player coming up. Thats the big financial prize, if it happens.
Yup,totally agree with this. China is a big market for WTA right now. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a grand slam event in China in a few years time.
 
#2,331 ·
As far as Caro I like too see her work with Darren Cahill, I remember during RG last year her serve was way more flatten out do too her working with Darren Cahill so hopeful them work together again, I still like too see her & Sven train and work together as well.
 
#2,334 ·
I'd like to see her with a coach who believes she is a defensive player.
Too many changes, too much experimentation. They arent building Frankenstein, they had a #1 who was a very solid defensive player.
At least utilize the skills you already have, in some way.
 
#2,333 ·
^
The problem is how are you deciding this list exactly. You have named someone who is #16 in the world on this list. So are you judging on perceived level you think they should be at, playing to their best etc? Because most small tournaments would like Ivanovic world number 16 in their tournament with a big fan base. The problem then is it comes subjective, you are judging how you expect your players to be playing, how are you judging if a player is putting in sincere, professional effort? The WTA can't really be subjective like this, they just have to accept whatever comes.

Also tbf do the WTA really make excuses for these players? They big them up or make them sound like they are doing better than they are, but it's in their interests to do that. It comes back to when your brought this up when Suarez Navarro beat Caro, it was still the biggest "upset" so to speak involving a name player that day (even if it wasn't the biggest actual surprise). So what are the WTA to really do? They want to put the focus on Suarez Navarro's performance, so it's not in their interests to say Caro was awful and gave up in the 2nd set is it. It's not like the losing players are going to be paying any attention to the WTA's summary articles either, they would probably prefer the match was just mentioned in 1 line at the bottom of the page with the result.
 
#2,335 ·
You're absolutely right that it's subjective and only empirical with regard to a few facts,but that's a cop-out,really.Sports CONSTANTLY use subjective judgments: The strike zone in baseball;what does/doesn't constitute a foul in AF,basketball or ice hockey;and if a player is grunting too loudly or not in tennis.Why not have a small panel of experts/consultants to solve the problem?They could have 7 ex-players--a couple hard-asses,a couple softies,and three that are sort of middle-of-the-road.If a majority felt that a player was half-assing,then she would go on the Shit List:p.

To answer your question: YES,the WTA absolutely coddles Ana and Lisicki,playing along and pretending that every B.S. injury claim was life-threatening.I recall when Ana embarrassed the sport--not by LOSING to Vinci,but by putting forth a no-class effort at the Rogers Cup that cheated the ticket-paying fans out of their money.A hack even tossed Ana a softball after the match,and she said,unequivocally,that she was perfectly fine,health-wise.Three days later,as the heat built up,she and her scummy team suddenly "discovered" a foot fracture to justify the loss....and I'll bet you that nothing was said to the AI camp by the WTA.

Summarizing matches really wouldn't be too difficult at all;the WTA should just cut back on the absurd hyperbolic style.For example,they could simply mention that Julie Coin's highest-ranked scalp was at the USO back in 2008...without couching it to make it seem as if she had beaten peak Graf,Seles or Serena.You wouldn't have to insult Ana AT ALL;however,by having a more understated recount of the match,it'd be implicitly clear that THAT upset over a world #1 wasn't anywhere near like what happened when,say,Peter Doohan knocked off Boris Becker at Wimbledon...or when Lori McNeil upset Graf in a Wimby 1st-rounder(though McNeil was a better player than Coin,Graf was LIGHT YEARS better than AI,so it evens out:lol:)

To conclude,I don't think that the WTA really needs Ana....or any particular slutty piece of eye candy that much.Let's say that Bouchard suddenly became a young force in the WTA(just speculating here)...and then Ana retired and decided to join Vaidisova and Stepanek in an aimless,coke-snorting threesome.As Bouchard gained respect with her victories...and drew attention with her looks...would there be ANY big drop-off in revenue with Eugenie instead of AI??The Serb barely ever makes a QF anymore and is LONG GONE by the 2nd week of every Slam.Bouchard might even develop a bigger fanbase if she found consistent success,as opposed to a flukish 12-month period that was offset by a lifetime of fringe-Top 15 to fringe-Top 20 tennis...and there are countless other young beauties who could help with marketing...some of whom,like Vika and Masha,are multi-Slam champions.As with Serena's USO punishments,NO ONE should be treated as 'bigger than the sport' just because they draw in some casual,horny male fans.

P.S.: With Caroline's good physical fitness level,I don't think that she'd get on the Shit List unless she began visibly tanking matches on a regular basis(God forbid:eek:)
 
#2,336 ·
It's kind of funny to me that commentators like to say that Caro got to #1 by playing a heavy schedule when she currently plays about the same # of tournaments but is ranked a lot lower.
 
#2,338 ·
It's Illogic from piss-ants: As if a lousy player could get to #1 simply by playing a heavy schedule.In reality,such a routine wouldn't benefit ANYone unless she were no worse than a Top 10-caliber player...which is nothing to sneeze at.In fact,Caroline has more PREMIERS on her resume than only a handful of active players...all of whom are superb...so she couldn't have racked up too many titles against weak competition....It's just really basic common sense
 
#2,344 ·
chiara gambuzza ‏@kkiara89
Tomorrow opening ceremony of Madrid Open at 5pm:Nadal,Feli Lopez,Verdasco,Serena,Wozniacki are the players who will take part.
 
#2,346 ·
In Madrid by Caroline being rank 10 she can face an 5-9 player rank in the third round and a 1-4 player rank in the QF, That right Huh ?
 
#2,347 ·
If Caroline is being mystery coach Which I doubt I be happy in many ways because that would show that she grown and can take other coaches input beside her father but like I said I doubt she have a mystery coach, But I wish that was the case she is being coach by someone else
 
#2,349 · (Edited)
The supposed mystery coach goes to back to the summer of 2011. I think it was in that august when it was claimed that Caro was being coached by someone other than Piotr but they didn't want to reveal themselves at that time. I don't remember whether it was actually claimed or if it was just fan speculation but the mystery coach was said to have another player as a client already.

Former poster Jimmmie48 made a pretty good case that the mystery coach never actually existed.
 
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