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-   -   Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up? (http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=483769)

bobito Jan 24th, 2013 09:11 PM

Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?
 
Firtly, this is not a thread for discussing the Azarenka saga. There are plenty of threads already for that, these being the two most active:

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=483105
http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=483257

Pam Shriver tweeted after the match "A terrible call in Kim (Clijsters)-Justine (Henin) final (in 2004) here helped usher in the challenge system. Now this injury charade of 10 minutes may change injury rule."

Personally I'm not so sure. Two of the top players in the men's game are very fond of their tactical MTOs and I think it will take more thamn one women's semi-final to force a rule change.

But if there are changes, what would be a justifiable and workable ammendment to the rule?

sammy01 Jan 24th, 2013 09:14 PM

Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?
 
Yes, they do need tightening up, how to do that is the question.

n1_and_uh_noone Jan 24th, 2013 09:20 PM

Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?
 
I have been changing my stance on how exactly this should be changed. For now, I think there should be no timeouts. Get as much treatment as you like during the break between sets, and announce to the crowd what you are being treated for. If it is something that prevents you from continuing, forfeit necessary games to get to the changeover (one visit per set for each ailment). Obviously, in this scenario, VUvu could not have claimed treatment because she was playing fine until the timeout.

In general, there should be very little sympathy for something that happens within a match. Your opponent had better footwork and avoided rolling his ankle, why should he be made to wait because you screwed up?

sammy01 Jan 24th, 2013 09:29 PM

Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by n1_and_uh_noone (Post 23615097)
I have been changing my stance on how exactly this should be changed. For now, I think there should be no timeouts. Get as much treatment as you like during the break between sets, and announce to the crowd what you are being treated for. If it is something that prevents you from continuing, forfeit necessary games to get to the changeover (one visit per set for each ailment). Obviously, in this scenario, VUvu could not have claimed treatment because she was playing fine until the timeout.

In general, there should be very little sympathy for something that happens within a match. Your opponent had better footwork and avoided rolling his ankle, why should he be made to wait because you screwed up?

I'm more in favour of if the umpire deems it to be a serious injury, rolled ankle ect, then a MTO can be taken immediately. If it is something like a blister, cramp, whatever Vika had then a player can take a medical time out but only at the change of ends or by losing a game for a 3 minute time out.

If Vika's options yesterday were take a medial time out and give up a game so it was 5-5 all or carry on and get treatment at the change of ends then we would know how truly 'injured' she was and I bet my house on her having just carried on.

Third Mall Jan 24th, 2013 09:32 PM

Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?
 
Isn't it an impartial doctor/trainer who decides whether an extended period is needed for treatment? I know a player can lie and say they have a problem they don't have but there will never be anything anyone can do about that. Unless you get them to do some sort of lie detector test; but that would probably take longer than the MTO. Seriously though, the rules as they are seem fine. The only alternative seems to be not allowing MTOs, and that is unacceptable to me.

A fairer option I suppose would be to allow MTOs only immediately prior to the injured player's service game. That would prevent gamesmanship in situations when a player is serving for a set or match.

A player who wants to leave the court can just take a bathroom break anyway, right? This Azarenka stuff is just way over the top.

JarkaFish Jan 24th, 2013 09:32 PM

Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by n1_and_uh_noone (Post 23615097)
I have been changing my stance on how exactly this should be changed. For now, I think there should be no timeouts. Get as much treatment as you like during the break between sets, and announce to the crowd what you are being treated for. If it is something that prevents you from continuing, forfeit necessary games to get to the changeover (one visit per set for each ailment). Obviously, in this scenario, VUvu could not have claimed treatment because she was playing fine until the timeout.

In general, there should be very little sympathy for something that happens within a match. Your opponent had better footwork and avoided rolling his ankle, why should he be made to wait because you screwed up?

No she wasn't. :lol:

She was steamrolling Sloane up a set and a break until that ankle thing and then Sloane started to get some games in because of UEs from Vika, and the commentators on both ES and ESPN were wondering when she was going to call a MTO. :shrug:

n1_and_uh_noone Jan 24th, 2013 09:35 PM

Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sammy01 (Post 23615409)
I'm more in favour of if the umpire deems it to be a serious injury, rolled ankle ect, then a MTO can be taken immediately. If it is something like a blister, cramp, whatever Vika had then a player can take a medical time out but only at the change of ends or by losing a game for a 3 minute time out.

If Vika's options yesterday were take a medial time out and give up a game so it was 5-5 all or carry on and get treatment at the change of ends then we would know how truly 'injured' she was and I bet my house on her having just carried on.

Yeah, I like the idea of taking a timeout if you give up a game. NOt sure if the umpire should be allowed to make a decision regarding the seriousness of the injury though.

bobito Jan 24th, 2013 09:36 PM

Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by n1_and_uh_noone (Post 23615097)
I have been changing my stance on how exactly this should be changed. For now, I think there should be no timeouts. Get as much treatment as you like during the break between sets, and announce to the crowd what you are being treated for. If it is something that prevents you from continuing, forfeit necessary games to get to the changeover (one visit per set for each ailment). Obviously, in this scenario, VUvu could not have claimed treatment because she was playing fine until the timeout.

In general, there should be very little sympathy for something that happens within a match. Your opponent had better footwork and avoided rolling his ankle, why should he be made to wait because you screwed up?

Interesting idea. You could have a time = points scale for timeouts so it's in the players interest to get back on court asap. For example a player can call for the trainer at the changeover but if they overun it will cost them the next point. After 90 seconds it becomes 2 points and 90 seconds later 3 etc. That way players would only hold up play for genuine injuries.

A bathroom break would have to have a standard penalty, say 2 points. Otherwise you'd be penalising players more because they are playing on a court that is further away from a bathroom.

n1_and_uh_noone Jan 24th, 2013 09:36 PM

Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JarkaFish (Post 23615497)
No she wasn't. :lol:

She was steamrolling Sloane up a set and a break until that ankle thing and then Sloane started to get some games in because of UEs from Vika, and the commentators on both ES and ESPN were wondering when she was going to call a MTO. :shrug:

So making UEs deserves a medical timeout ? :spit:

BY playing fine, I mean it wasn't somehting that was preventing her from carrying on. FFS, she had 5 matchpoints.

sammy01 Jan 24th, 2013 09:39 PM

Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by n1_and_uh_noone (Post 23615577)
Yeah, I like the idea of taking a timeout if you give up a game. NOt sure if the umpire should be allowed to make a decision regarding the seriousness of the injury though.

I basically mean if the player goes over like on an ankle ect the sort of injury a player isn't likely to carry on after for anyway.

n1_and_uh_noone Jan 24th, 2013 09:39 PM

Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bobito (Post 23615617)
Interesting idea. You could have a time = points scale for timeouts so it's in the players interest to get back on court asap. For example a player can call for the trainer at the changeover but if they overun it will cost them the next point. After 90 seconds it becomes 2 points and 90 seconds later 3 etc. That way players would only hold up play for genuine injuries.

A bathroom break would have to have a standard penalty, say 2 points. Otherwise you'd be penalising players more because they are playing on a court that is further away from a bathroom.

If I am not wrong, there is something like that for a bathroom break. You lose a point for a certain number of minutes and then a game or something. It was implemented in an Anci match a few years ago.

I am now readin that Azarenka took 10 min because she got 2 timeouts for her 'knee' and 'back'. That is ridiculous. What if she'd pointed to the ankle tweak? 3 timeouts??

DevilishAttitude Jan 24th, 2013 09:41 PM

Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?
 
Of course they do. Just look at the examples we have had at this tournament. You had Serena, who was clearly injured rightly calling the trainer, and there was Azarenka, who changed her story several times on what her "injuries" were, calling the trainer because the moment got to her.

The trainer should only be called out in exceptional circumstances. Serena's timeouts were examples of this. Azarenka's certainly wasn't.

sammy01 Jan 24th, 2013 09:41 PM

Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by n1_and_uh_noone (Post 23615729)
If I am not wrong, there is something like that for a bathroom break. You lose a point for a certain number of minutes and then a game or something. It was implemented in an Anci match a few years ago.

I am now readin that Azarenka took 10 min because she got 2 timeouts for her 'knee' and 'back'. That is ridiculous. What if she'd pointed to the ankle tweak? 3 timeouts??

The rules are ridiculous you can take as many time outs in a row as you like.

Lucemferre Jan 24th, 2013 09:42 PM

Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?
 
The match was never close. The yankee media needs to STFU.

bobito Jan 24th, 2013 09:44 PM

Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by n1_and_uh_noone (Post 23615729)
If I am not wrong, there is something like that for a bathroom break. You lose a point for a certain number of minutes and then a game or something. It was implemented in an Anci match a few years ago.

I am now readin that Azarenka took 10 min because she got 2 timeouts for her 'knee' and 'back'. That is ridiculous. What if she'd pointed to the ankle tweak? 3 timeouts??

Didn't know that. But what I'm suggesting is an automatic 2 point penalty for taking a bathroom break. That would pretty much stop any fake ones.


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