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explorer Apr 6th, 2010 03:19 AM

General discussion thread
 
As Ju has not decided her clay schedule, we can discuss Ju's clay session here.

Terpsichore Apr 6th, 2010 05:07 AM

Re: Justine's clay session - discussion thread
 
Roland Garros is there for the taking. Who can beat her if she's playing well? Possibly Kim, but that's about it.

explorer Apr 6th, 2010 05:23 AM

Re: Justine's clay session - discussion thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terpsichore (Post 17542281)
Roland Garros is there for the taking. Who can beat her if she's playing well? Possibly Kim, but that's about it.

Do yo think she's going to play the same as in her first career? I am curious to see how her new FH on clay.

Dunlop1 Apr 6th, 2010 05:23 AM

Re: Justine's clay session - discussion thread
 
I would love for Henin to meet Serena on the clay and for the French crowd to be as pro Henin as possible.

Dunlop1 Apr 6th, 2010 05:25 AM

Re: Justine's clay session - discussion thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by explorer (Post 17542312)
Do yo think she's going to play the same as in her first career? I am curious to see how her new FH on clay.

This is why I can't wait to see her play on clay.
In the past, she played a clay court game, using the topspin, angles, dropshots on the clay and then transitioned to more aggressive game on grass/hard court.

I wonder if she'll do the same or just stick with the all out aggression.

explorer Apr 6th, 2010 05:25 AM

Re: Justine's clay session - discussion thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunlop1 (Post 17542314)
I would love for Henin to meet Serena on the clay and for the French crowd to be as pro Henin as possible.

Ju has big crowd support pretty much everywhere except maybe US. I went to AO this year, they cheered for her no matter who's her opponent. I miss Ju on clay.

explorer Apr 6th, 2010 05:28 AM

Re: Justine's clay session - discussion thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunlop1 (Post 17542319)
This is why I can't wait to see her play on clay.
In the past, she played a clay court game, using the topspin, angles, dropshots on the clay and then transitioned to more aggressive game on grass/hard court.

I wonder if she'll do the same or just stick with the all out aggression.

I think she will adjust for clay, one way or the other. I can see her finish point quickly even on clay but I still think she will play topspins, dropshots and angels.

Terpsichore Apr 6th, 2010 05:31 AM

Re: Justine's clay session - discussion thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunlop1 (Post 17542319)
In the past, she played a clay court game, using the topspin, angles, dropshots on the clay and then transitioned to more aggressive game on grass/hard court.

Really? Watch the 2005 FO Final and see if there was no all-out aggression.

Dunlop1 Apr 6th, 2010 05:36 AM

Re: Justine's clay session - discussion thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terpsichore (Post 17542333)
Really? Watch the 2005 FO Final and see if there was no all-out aggression.

Mary Pierce didn't show up, so Henin could be as aggressive as she wanted.

Terpsichore Apr 6th, 2010 06:00 AM

Re: Justine's clay session - discussion thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunlop1 (Post 17542340)
Mary Pierce didn't show up, so Henin could be as aggressive as she wanted.

Really? She just happened not to "show up"? End of story.

This is yer typical tennis "analysis". on these Forums by people who apparently don't actually play the game. One day players don't "show up" for some obscure reason. No need to ask why, or if perhaps what their opponent is doing might have something to do with it. That takes work and knowledge.

Dunlop1 Apr 6th, 2010 06:19 AM

Re: Justine's clay session - discussion thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terpsichore (Post 17542366)
Really? She just happened not to "show up"? End of story.

This is yer typical tennis "analysis". on these Forums by people who apparently don't actually play the game. One day players don't "show up" for some obscure reason. No need to ask why, or if perhaps what their opponent is doing might have something to do with it. That takes work and knowledge.

LOL!
I played juniors for YEARS and have spent tens of thousands of hours on tennis courts.

I was a hitting partner up until 4 yrs ago for 2 WTA pros. One is retired now (she never cracked the top 100), the other was involved in a very memorable match at RG (and made it to the top 100). I won't say who and I'll leave it at that.
I can confidently say I play tennis much better than 90% of this board.

Mary Pierce herself said , she was too relaxed for the final. She showed up not focused and if you do that against Henin in an RG final, well that's what you get.
It is no coincidence that, that match is the most aggressive she's been in an RG final.

I will take Mary Pierce's word over your analysis.

Terpsichore Apr 6th, 2010 06:33 AM

Re: Justine's clay session - discussion thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunlop1 (Post 17542396)
LOL!
I played juniors for YEARS and have spent tens of thousands of hours on tennis courts.

I was a hitting partner up until 4 yrs ago for 2 WTA pros. One is retired now (she never cracked the top 100), the other was involved in a very memorable match at RG (and made it to the top 100). I won't say who and I'll leave it at that.
I can confidently say I play tennis much better than 90% of this board.

Mary Pierce herself said , she was too relaxed for the final. She showed up not focused and if you do that against Henin in an RG final, well that's what you get.
It is no coincidence that, that match is the most aggressive she's been in an RG final.

I will take Mary Pierce's word over your analysis.

Well, we'll take your word for your tennis prowess. It's just that the way you talk it doesn't sound like you have much practical experience. But then until high-speed photography came along tennis pros thought that on topspun shots they were turning the heads of their racquets over the ball as they hit it. Quite often, being able to do something doesn't entail knowledge of how you hit it. All of us can walk but do we know precisely how we do it?

As for Mary's sacrosanct word, I'm not quite sure why playing a Slam Final in front of your adopted country would make you "too relaxed" and therefore unable to cope with Justine's aggression.

But that's immaterial to the argument. You've said that Justine chooses to play more conservatively on clay. Yet this time she chose to play differently. Could it be that this is the way she wants to play and that when she's more passive it's because she's less confident?

Dunlop1 Apr 6th, 2010 07:02 AM

Re: Justine's clay session - discussion thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terpsichore (Post 17542441)
Quite often, being able to do something doesn't entail knowledge of how you hit it. All of us can walk but do we know precisely how we do it?

I am in total agreement with you on this. My 1HBH is a natural shot and as such, I have a hard time teaching the 1HBH. I had to learn to hit a 2HBH from scratch so I can teach that easily. Same with the forehand, because I have had to work to build that shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terpsichore (Post 17542441)
You've said that Justine chooses to play more conservatively on clay. Yet this time she chose to play differently. Could it be that this is the way she wants to play and that when she's more passive it's because she's less confident?

It could very well be.
The thing is, most players play more conservatively on clay than they do on other surfaces. Average first serve speeds are slower at RG than at Wimbledon and US Open. There is use of more spin and being more consistent. It's no coincidence RG always has the fewest winners and aces of all the slams.
That's the way to win RG. However, most women play the same game on clay that they do on other surfaces so I believe Henin can be more aggressive and still win comfortably on clay.

Terpsichore Apr 6th, 2010 07:13 AM

Re: Justine's clay session - discussion thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunlop1 (Post 17542498)
The thing is, most players play more conservatively on clay than they do on other surfaces. Average first serve speeds are slower at RG than at Wimbledon and US Open. There is use of more spin and being more consistent. It's no coincidence RG always has the fewest winners and aces of all the slams.

I think it's important to distinguish between speed through the air and speed off the court. It's the latter rather than the former that is responsible for the difference between court-surfaces (leaving aside variations in bounce due to worn surfaces). The reason clay is slower is because it comes off the court a lot slower than faster surfaces, not because of the speed through the air - which is the thing measured by the speedguns.

Some players temper their games because they think it's futile to crack the ball when the surface is going to slow it down but others may take the view that hitting it harder is the way to at least partially overcome this. I think Justine is likely to take the latter road.

Dunlop1 Apr 6th, 2010 08:04 AM

Re: Justine's clay session - discussion thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terpsichore (Post 17542508)
Some players temper their games because they think it's futile to crack the ball when the surface is going to slow it down

It is futile. Almost all ATP players do this. That's why the average first serve speed is slower at RG than at other slams.
The emphasis is more on the placement of the serve and less on the speed. It's the way I was taught to play on clay, (I still suck on the surface lol)
The surface negates the pace of your shot, giving your opponent just that bit more time to get to the ball. You will make more errors hitting harder, riskier shots but you won't benefit from putting pressure on your opponent because of the surface.

The gritty surface of clay causes more friction when the ball contacts the surface so it doesn't move through the court as much but the friction gives the ball more topspin than a regular hard court so it bounces higher. (I HATE playing on clay)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terpsichore (Post 17542508)
but others may take the view that hitting it harder is the way to at least partially overcome this. I think Justine is likely to take the latter road.

Very few are successful with that approach. In recent history, Agassi and Serena Williams are the only players I can think of to have been successful with a hit harder and flatter approach to RG.

Justine is a special case, given that of the current crop of WTA players only a handful are good on clay, so she should be able to succeed with whatever gamestyle she chooses.


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