TennisForum.com  

TennisForum.com (http://www.tennisforum.com/index.php)
-   Blast from the Past (http://www.tennisforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=59)
-   -   Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4 (http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=295173)

SelesFan70 Apr 19th, 2007 01:37 AM

Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4
 
Wow...talk about a blast from the past! Virginia Wade is an oracle, by the way! :worship:

Evert looked pissed off! :lol: It was clear her patience wasn't there, and 3 unforced errors in one game...almost unheard of for Evert!

I noticed that Monica didn't acknowledge Chrissie in the speech... :o


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcGfX...elated&search=

MisterQ Apr 19th, 2007 01:45 AM

Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4
 
Awesome. Thanks for that. :)

Have to say, Evert's shot to save the first match point was pretty sweet, though. :lol:

OrdinaryfoolisNJ Apr 19th, 2007 02:22 AM

Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SelesFan70 (Post 10546920)
Wow...talk about a blast from the past! Virginia Wade is an oracle, by the way! :worship:

Evert looked pissed off! :lol: It was clear her patience wasn't there, and 3 unforced errors in one game...almost unheard of for Evert!

I noticed that Monica didn't acknowledge Chrissie in the speech... :o


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcGfX...elated&search=

That was bad form not to thank a great champion for a good match, but she was a nervous kid. Chris was handling her power at 15, and Seles and Graf had POWER even as kids.

I saw the last part of Martina on TTC Centre Court, and Martina said she had to learn how to make her strokes completely differently to deal with power. She said the old say -- crossing over with the feet side stance was too slow. She had to learn to hit open stance to prepare earlier. I bet Chris could have learned as well, but I'm glad she retired. It was time to reach that other dream of being a mama.

Thanks for this Youtube! I've not seen this match. Guess I should force myself to watch it. I usually can't stand "moon ball" tennis, and I could see Chris moonballing Monica. But still, it was a "passing of the torch" match and worth seeing.

trivfun Apr 19th, 2007 02:29 AM

Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SelesFan70 (Post 10546920)
Wow...talk about a blast from the past! Virginia Wade is an oracle, by the way! :worship:

Evert looked pissed off! :lol: It was clear her patience wasn't there, and 3 unforced errors in one game...almost unheard of for Evert!

I noticed that Monica didn't acknowledge Chrissie in the speech... :o


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcGfX...elated&search=

I remember that match. Monica should have killed her but didn't have the service and was broken a lot. It was closer than it should have been. She was at that point still shorter than Chris at 5'5. The next year she was 5'8 or 5'9 and the service was deadly Chris was smart and got out of there.

PamShriver Apr 19th, 2007 06:37 AM

Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4
 
This has to be one of the greatest "debuts" in tennis. Matched only by Evert's "debut" victory over newly crowned Slam Champion Margaret Court in Charlotte in 1970. I am well aware that Seles played 4 Pro tournaments before Houstone (Boca, Lipton, New Orleans '88 and D.C. '89) just as Evert had played several women's events in south Florida before Charlotte. Still, these matches were early enough in their careers to be considered "debuts" of a sort. The only one that I can think of that is nearly as impressive was Serena's debut tournament (and I do believe that it was in fact the first pro event she played) in Chicago in '97 where she defeated none other than...Monica Seles and served notice that she was ready for the big time. Of the three, however, Seles is the only one who actually won the particular event.

samn Apr 19th, 2007 07:38 AM

Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PamShriver (Post 10547609)
This has to be one of the greatest "debuts" in tennis. Matched only by Evert's "debut" victory over newly crowned Slam Champion Margaret Court in Charlotte in 1970. I am well aware that Seles played 4 Pro tournaments before Houstone (Boca, Lipton, New Orleans '88 and D.C. '89) just as Evert had played several women's events in south Florida before Charlotte. Still, these matches were early enough in their careers to be considered "debuts" of a sort. The only one that I can think of that is nearly as impressive was Serena's debut tournament (and I do believe that it was in fact the first pro event she played) in Chicago in '97 where she defeated none other than...Monica Seles and served notice that she was ready for the big time. Of the three, however, Seles is the only one who actually won the particular event.

Don't forget Capriati's pro debut at the Virginia Slims of Capriati Florida in 1990. In fact Capriati reached the final in two of her first three tournaments scoring wins over players like Helena Sukova and Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario along the way. The win over ASV was particularly impressive as the Spaniard, who was the reigning French Open champion at the time, was walloped 6-1 6-1 on the green clay of Hilton Head Island.

BCP Apr 19th, 2007 11:50 AM

Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4
 
I recently saw this match for the first time, and was struck by how much moonballing Monica did. She also tried this later that year at the US Open. I know she was only 15, but thankfully she by and large ditched that tactic. Chris, frankly, looked tired and every bit in her 30's in that match.

It was interesting to see the fundamentals at tht would form her world-beating game in its early stages. I agree with Samn- Jennifer's debut was given a lot of coverage, and she certainly delivered that tournament. I also think she was an even better player at 15 than Monica was at the same age, but maybe her rate of development was faster than Monca's (which was mind-boggling).

trivfun Apr 19th, 2007 04:34 PM

Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BCP (Post 10548380)
I recently saw this match for the first time, and was struck by how much moonballing Monica did. She also tried this later that year at the US Open. I know she was only 15, but thankfully she by and large ditched that tactic. Chris, frankly, looked tired and every bit in her 30's in that match.

It was interesting to see the fundamentals at tht would form her world-beating game in its early stages. I agree with Samn- Jennifer's debut was given a lot of coverage, and she certainly delivered that tournament. I also think she was an even better player at 15 than Monica was at the same age, but maybe her rate of development was faster than Monca's (which was mind-boggling).

The key was Monica's serve.

PamShriver Apr 20th, 2007 12:02 AM

Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4
 
I totally forgot about the Virginia Slims of Capriati. I guess because Capriati never became the player that Chris, Monica, and Serena did I wasn't thinking of her 'debut' along the same lines. Jennifer never quite managed to live up to expectations, though in truth I think that she did as well as she could all things considered. I just don't think she was as mentally capable as the all time greats.

Granted she won a couple of GS titles and even reached number one for a brief period of time. But she never came close to dominating the sport for any period of time, and more often than not when the pressure was on she blinked. The most notable example of that would be the U.S. Open Semis of '91 versus Seles. Capriati blinked first and Seles wouldn't budge. That's the difference between a champion and a really good player. That isn't the only example of this with JCap either, witness her U.S. Open semi versus Henin from a couple of years ago. Those are the kinds of matches the all time greats win more often than not.

Seles did moonball a lot in that Houston match, but that had a lot to do with the fact that she was only 5'5" 100lbs at the time. Still, she pulled that match out and perhaps even more impressively took Graf to 3 sets a couple of months later at Roland Garros. I'm sure Capriati had more game than Seles at 15, but then I think that Capriati had more game than Seles for most of their careers, so did a lot of players. Monica won because, in her heyday, she had a ferocious tenacity to win that very few players have ever been able to match (Austin, another player with a relatively limited technical repetoire, was another) and when the pressure was on Monica became braver and bolder and that was why she was a champion.

trivfun Apr 20th, 2007 05:10 AM

Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PamShriver (Post 10551664)
I totally forgot about the Virginia Slims of Capriati. I guess because Capriati never became the player that Chris, Monica, and Serena did I wasn't thinking of her 'debut' along the same lines. Jennifer never quite managed to live up to expectations, though in truth I think that she did as well as she could all things considered. I just don't think she was as mentally capable as the all time greats.

Granted she won a couple of GS titles and even reached number one for a brief period of time. But she never came close to dominating the sport for any period of time, and more often than not when the pressure was on she blinked. The most notable example of that would be the U.S. Open Semis of '91 versus Seles. Capriati blinked first and Seles wouldn't budge. That's the difference between a champion and a really good player. That isn't the only example of this with JCap either, witness her U.S. Open semi versus Henin from a couple of years ago. Those are the kinds of matches the all time greats win more often than not.

Seles did moonball a lot in that Houston match, but that had a lot to do with the fact that she was only 5'5" 100lbs at the time. Still, she pulled that match out and perhaps even more impressively took Graf to 3 sets a couple of months later at Roland Garros. I'm sure Capriati had more game than Seles at 15, but then I think that Capriati had more game than Seles for most of their careers, so did a lot of players. Monica won because, in her heyday, she had a ferocious tenacity to win that very few players have ever been able to match (Austin, another player with a relatively limited technical repetoire, was another) and when the pressure was on Monica became braver and bolder and that was why she was a champion.

She worked on the serve with ferocity. I mean she serve a ball at 90 mph's hour and that was a record then.

samn Apr 20th, 2007 06:37 AM

Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by trivfun (Post 10552330)
She worked on the serve with ferocity. I mean she serve a ball at 90 mph's hour and that was a record then.

Huh? I don't think Seles ever set a record for serve speeds. In the 90s it was usually someone like Brenda Schultz Mc Carthy who racked up really high speeds. Seles had a good serve in her first incarnation, but I don't remember her serve being noted as a weapon until after her return to the tour in 1995. The one thing about her serve that puzzled me, though, was that she rarely, if ever, exploited the benefits of a lefty slice serve out wide.

trivfun Apr 21st, 2007 09:56 PM

Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by samn (Post 10552516)
Huh? I don't think Seles ever set a record for serve speeds. In the 90s it was usually someone like Brenda Schultz Mc Carthy who racked up really high speeds. Seles had a good serve in her first incarnation, but I don't remember her serve being noted as a weapon until after her return to the tour in 1995. The one thing about her serve that puzzled me, though, was that she rarely, if ever, exploited the benefits of a lefty slice serve out wide.

Brenda Schultz came around in the 90's a little bit afterwards. This was Monica in 1990. She was kind of like Venus. Great first but a lousy second. However, she would go for aces in the second serve around the 1992 and 1993.

hingis-seles Apr 22nd, 2007 06:42 AM

Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4
 
Monica was never really known for her serve and it only really started to pick up towards 1993

How eerie/sad is it that Monica got stabbed exactly 4 years after winning her first career title?

trivfun Apr 22nd, 2007 06:47 PM

Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hingis-seles (Post 10565737)
Monica was never really known for her serve and it only really started to pick up towards 1993

How eerie/sad is it that Monica got stabbed exactly 4 years after winning her first career title?


She worked on her serve and had great speed. Consistency was just not there until she got stabbed concerning her percentage. But it did create fear like Venus Williams did years later. In that, players couldn't hug the service lines much on first serves like they did back then and now to lesser players. Second service, well?

Robert1 Apr 23rd, 2007 07:12 AM

Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4
 
Chris Evert had problems with Monica Seles' serve in 1989. Even though it wasn't hard hit, the spin of the ball gave Evert tremendous trouble.


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:03 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.