TennisForum.com - Reply to Topic
Thread: Digesting the big, dreaded double bagel Reply to Thread
Title:
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

Registration Image

  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
Jan 20th, 2013 03:17 PM
Ms. Anthropic
Re: Digesting the big, dreaded double bagel

Quote:
Originally Posted by samn View Post
... the pace at which they played could often be stifling for the poor pigeons on the other side of the net.
Ah, there is the question we should be asking: Is there a certain type of player who is more prone to being deebeed than others?
Jan 19th, 2013 09:52 AM
samn
Re: Digesting the big, dreaded double bagel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo View Post

Does anyone else besides me think some players or types of style tend towards more bagels?

I always thought that a controlled baseline game, one based on consistency, often produces lopsided game scores. Someone who serves and volleys often needs to find their "range". IMO it's easier to make an error or two when playing forcing tennis.

To me this explains why someone like Chris Evert is more likely to have double bagels than a Margaret Court or Martina Navratilova.
When I was a kid I used to think that aggressive players like Navratilova and Graf were more likely to bagel their opponents because the pace at which they played could often be stifling for the poor pigeons on the other side of the net. I mean, by the time the other player finds her bearings and gets into her playing rhythm, she's probably down 0-6, 0-3 already. So I was very surprised to find out many years later that Chris Evert actually inflicted a lot more double bagels on her rivals than Navratilova or Graf did. And most of them while Chris was playing with a wood racquet too!

I don't know if one particular style of play lends itself more to bagels, but I'd have to say that I were a player at the receiving end of a bagel, I'd rather it were from someone like Navratilova or Graf because I'd then be able to rationalise it by focussing on my inability to handle the relentless aggression of their playing styles. Being double bagelled by Chrissie would probably be a lot more embarrassing because at least the general perception of her game was not one of crushing domination, so it'd be harder to accept why Chrissie made me look utterly foolish on the tennis court.

Of course that's only true as long as we're dealing in broad generalisations because Evert was actually a pretty aggressive baseliner to the extent that wood racquets allowed her to be. When I watch old Evert matches, one thing that often stands out is how well Evert moves her opponents around the court and makes them do most of the running and retrieving. So those poor women who were fed double bagels by Evert were not only humiliated at the end of the match but also mentally and physically exhausted to boot.
Jan 18th, 2013 11:38 PM
PamShriver
Re: Digesting the big, dreaded double bagel

Famous quote by Don Candy: "Christine Marie (Evert) only wants to win every bloody point."
Jan 18th, 2013 08:36 PM
Ms. Anthropic
Re: Digesting the big, dreaded double bagel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo View Post


Does anyone else besides me think some players or types of style tend towards more bagels?

I always thought that a controlled baseline game, one based on consistency, often produces lopsided game scores. Someone who serves and volleys often needs to find their "range". IMO it's easier to make an error or two when playing forcing tennis.
My two cents: Players with great anticipation and concentration, no matter what their style, will be more likely to bake bagels. And a certain temperament is needed. Some players either really do want every game/point, although sometimes a kind of obliviousness can also lead to it.
Jan 18th, 2013 06:53 PM
PamShriver
Re: Digesting the big, dreaded double bagel

I always loved the fact that Chris double-bagelled both Austin sisters (Pam and Tracy) about ten years apart.
Jan 18th, 2013 05:31 PM
Rollo
Re: Digesting the big, dreaded double bagel

And in pre-open era days Suzanne Lenglen often went on tears where she won whole events without the loss of a game.

That's 60 games in a row!


Does anyone else besides me think some players or types of style tend towards more bagels?

I always thought that a controlled baseline game, one based on consistency, often produces lopsided game scores. Someone who serves and volleys often needs to find their "range". IMO it's easier to make an error or two when playing forcing tennis.

To me this explains why someone like Chris Evert is more likely to have double bagels than a Margaret Court or Martina Navratilova.

Martina Hingis often double b'd lesser opponents in a way Serena never could or will because Serena often needs to settle in. I attribute that to Hingis' style of play.
Jan 18th, 2013 03:22 PM
Ms. Anthropic
Re: Digesting the big, dreaded double bagel

Quote:
Originally Posted by samn View Post
While looking at some of the old threads a few days ago, I came across this one. Did anyone ever find out what the Open Era record for most consecutive games won was? For Graf, I found out later that her streak was 26 consecutive games (counting a tie-breaker as a game) - the last "game" of the 1988 French semis against Sabatini, the 6-0 6-0 against Zvereva in the final, the 6-0 6-0 against Hu Na in the first round at Wimbledon 1988, and the first game against Karine Quentrec in the second round.

Maria Sharapova has now won 28 consecutive games at the Australian Open this year (6-0, 6-0 in her first two matches and the first four games against Venus Williams today). Were there any others with a streak longer than 28?
Depends on when Guse won her game in the second set against Graf in the first round of the 1989 AO. Graf blanked Simpson in the second round and won the first 11 games versus Werdel in the third. Can't find much pertaining to the second set versus Guse, but by my reckoning, Guse served first in the second. If she held there and Graf ran out the rest of the set, that would do it.

Also just from looking at the list above, Evert had double bagels twice in 1973 in Atlantic City and Indianapolis, and 1974 Indianapolis. I am too lazy to look up whether these were consecutive matches and/or what the surrounding matches' scores were, but those are also candidates.
Jan 18th, 2013 08:01 AM
samn
Re: Digesting the big, dreaded double bagel

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommystar View Post
That means Steffi won at least 24 games in a row!

(Don't know about her French semi vs. Gaby 6-3 7-6, and her R64 match at Wimbledon Karine Quentrec 6-2 6-0, but tie-break can count as a game so at least 25 games in a row! Anyone know the conclusion of those 2 matches, that must be a record for the most games winning in the Open-era.)
While looking at some of the old threads a few days ago, I came across this one. Did anyone ever find out what the Open Era record for most consecutive games won was? For Graf, I found out later that her streak was 26 consecutive games (counting a tie-breaker as a game) - the last "game" of the 1988 French semis against Sabatini, the 6-0 6-0 against Zvereva in the final, the 6-0 6-0 against Hu Na in the first round at Wimbledon 1988, and the first game against Karine Quentrec in the second round.

Maria Sharapova has now won 28 consecutive games at the Australian Open this year (6-0, 6-0 in her first two matches and the first four games against Venus Williams today). Were there any others with a streak longer than 28?
Feb 28th, 2011 11:37 PM
austinrunner
Re: Digesting the big, dreaded double bagel

Billie Jean King's double bagel singles wins (15):

Randy Rayburn, Pacific Southwest Championships, 1963 (hard)
Louise Gonnerman, U.S. Indoor Championships, 1966 (indoor)
Elizabeth Blackford, Eastern Grass Court Championships, 1966 (grass)
Karal Gagliano, New England Women's Invitational Indoor Tennis Championships, 1967 (indoor)
Julie Holt, Charlotte Invitation Tennis Tournament, 1967 (clay)
Mary Larreco, Pacific Southwest Championships, 1967 (hard)
Jade Shiffman, U.S. Indoor Championships, 1968 (indoor artificial grass)
Melanie Muller, South African Open, 1969 (hard)
Shirley Houlihan, Irish Open, 1969 (grass)
Odile De Roubin, French Open, 1970 (clay)
Ann Haydon Jones, British Motor Car Invitational, San Francisco, 1971 (indoor)
Pam Austin, Jacksonville, Florida, 1972 (clay)
Julie Heldman, Quincy, Massachusetts, 1973 (indoor)
Ingrid Bentzer, Orlando, Florida, 1974 (clay)
Frederique Thibault, Federation Cup, Eastbourne, United Kingdom, 1977 (grass)

King never lost a singles match 6-0, 6-0. But Chris Evert allowed King only 1 game on three occasions (two on clay and one on hard courts) and 2 games on three other occasions (two indoors and one on clay). Six of King's nine worst singles losses (in terms of games won by King) were to Evert.
Feb 28th, 2011 06:26 AM
DennisFitz
Re: Digesting the big, dreaded double bagel

A few more notes about double bagels, and consecutive games won:

At the US Open, Chris Evert won the last 9 games of her 2R match at the 1976 US Open, then won 6-0,6-0 in 3R, followed by winning the first 2 games against Sue Barker in the 4R. So that's 23 in a row.
Also in 1985 at Brighton, Catarina Lindqvist won her first two matches 6-0,6-0 over Susan Mascarin and Barbara Gerken. She played Chris Evert in the QF, losing the first set 6-2. Although I was at the match, I don't have any recall, but believe Chris started out winning first game, but had to go on and win a tough 7-6 in the third match.

Evert was amazing in how she was able to beat quality players 6-0,6-0; top 10ers like Betty Stove, Martina Navratilova, Tracy Austin. Also saw the 1985 Tokyo result over Bonder. Pure payback by Miss Evert for the shock defeat to Bonder in 1983 Tokyo.
Feb 27th, 2011 09:57 AM
newmark401
Re: Digesting the big, dreaded double bagel

The great Suzanne was very fond of bagels, though you would never have known to look at her waist:

http://www.tennisforum.com/59-blast-past/421783-selection-suzanne-lenglens-singles-results.html#post18653934
Feb 27th, 2011 06:35 AM
shoparound
Re: Digesting the big, dreaded double bagel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeev View Post
That was such a shame for Camille. She had fought so hard during those two weeks only to have nothing against Evert in the semis. But those groundstrokes of hers

Camille was definitely an original.
What were her groundstrokes like?
Jul 12th, 2006 04:41 AM
kwanfan 2006 Wimbledon First Round
Amelie Mauresmo d. Ivana Abramovic 6-0, 6-0
Mar 27th, 2006 02:46 PM
gabybackhand Here are all of the doubles bagels won by Sabatini. It's interesting to note there are some well-known players who lost to the divine Argentine by that score, including Aranxta and Zina as I said before, and how she managed to win like that from her very first year on the Tour at 15 to her last season in 1996. Anyone has a list of the top double bagel winners?

1985
US CLAY COURTS - R32: HOLDEN, JANE
SUNTORY JAPAN - R16: KINNEY, KRISTIN (followed by a 6-0 6-1 win over Andrea Holikova)
1987
ITALIAN OPEN - QF: SANCHEZ-VICARIO, ARANTXA
1988
HILTON HEAD - SF: GARRISON JACKSON, ZINA (RANKED 11)
1989
AUSTRALIAN OPEN - R32: BENJAMIN, CAMILLE (RANKED 88)
MIAMI - R64: SUIRE, CATHERINE (RANKED 145)
FRENCH OPEN - R128: NISHIYA-KINOSHITA, AKEMI (RANKED 115)
1991
HILTON HEAD - R32: WILD, LINDA (RANKED 94)
CANADIAN OPEN - R32: FARINA ELIA, SILVIA (RANKED 87)
1992
HILTON HEAD - R32: CARROLL, HALLE (RANKED 100)
CITIZEN CUP, Hamburg - R32: CECCHINI, SANDRA (RANKED 40)
FRENCH OPEN - R128: FARINA ELIA, SILVIA (RANKED 98), followed by a 60 61 win over Sandra Cecchini (ranked 36)
SAN DIEGO - R16: PO, KIMBERLY (RANKED 65)
1993
HILTON HEAD - R32: BOWES-HACKNEY, BEVERLY (RANKED 139)
FRENCH OPEN - R128: ZRUBAKOVA, RADKA (RANKED 46)
1994
NICHIREI - R32: WATANABE, JOLENE (RANKED 125)
1995
AMELIA ISLAND - R32: GAIDANO, MARIA JOSE (RANKED 180)
1996
SAN DIEGO - R32: LEE-WATERS, LINDSAY (RANKED 50)
Mar 26th, 2006 12:28 AM
Ryan Just a note Rollo: I think Hingis won the 2000 Ericcson Open after defeating Monica in the semis.
This thread has more than 15 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome