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  Topic Review (Newest First)
Oct 27th, 2013 07:02 PM
tennislover22
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyk75 View Post
They used to have some third-place play-offs at some events way back in the day. Pam Shriver talked about it in her tour diary book from the 80's. According to her, "all the players" hated them, and they were thought of as just glorified exhibitions. Top players already complain about how much tennis they have to play, so I just don't see this idea faring well.
Good point.
But I'd like to think this is a different era, with different mindset.
It is worth floating a trial balloon, if the players are not receptive, then shelf it the idea.

I just have the feeling those players who entered with realistic expectation that they may not win it, would not mind at all where they stand exactly after the tournament.
After all, this the last tournament of the year.
Oct 27th, 2013 06:42 PM
tennislover22
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
TennisBum what are your thoughts on tommyk75's post? You haven't replied to it but it seems to be good insight into maybe why there isn't a 3rd place match.
which one?

EDIT: never mind, I have seen it. I shall respond
Oct 27th, 2013 06:10 PM
Alexander18
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

TennisBum what are your thoughts on tommyk75's post? You haven't replied to it but it seems to be good insight into maybe why there isn't a 3rd place match.
Oct 27th, 2013 06:08 PM
tennislover22
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozza View Post
Who actually cares about getting to #3 though. It doesn't mean a lot in the scheme of things. You get a slightly easier draw from #5, but really ranking differences like this are minor things.
Li Na (and the Chinese people) cares about achieving the highest ranking for an Asian player, men or women.

The world is not limited to this TF, there is a lot going on outside of this forum.
Oct 27th, 2013 06:04 PM
Alexander18
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyk75 View Post
They used to have some third-place play-offs at some events way back in the day. Pam Shriver talked about it in her tour diary book from the 80's. According to her, "all the players" hated them, and they were thought of as just glorified exhibitions. Top players already complain about how much tennis they have to play, so I just don't see this idea faring well.
This sums up what I was thinking.
Oct 27th, 2013 05:23 PM
pov
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by iGOAT View Post
That would be very interesting actually. They should do that as a warm-up for the final.
Yep.
Oct 27th, 2013 03:50 PM
ozza
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
There is also the possible scenario for Li Na had she lost her semi, and there was a possibility that she could take over the #3 position winning the 3rd place, match, you don't think she would be motivated.

BTW, those argue only players are motivated by the trophy, I believe Li Na ha won only one title this this year, and she is #3 now.
Of course ranking points are important.
As you stated, where you seeded is important. Being seeded #2 guaranteed you will not meet the #1 see before the final.
Who actually cares about getting to #3 though. It doesn't mean a lot in the scheme of things. You get a slightly easier draw from #5, but really ranking differences like this are minor things.
Oct 27th, 2013 02:58 PM
Marlene
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
There is also the possible scenario for Li Na had she lost her semi, and there was a possibility that she could take over the #3 position winning the 3rd place, match, you don't think she would be motivated.

BTW, those argue only players are motivated by the trophy, I believe Li Na ha won only one title this this year, and she is #3 now.
Of course ranking points are important.
As you stated, where you seeded is important. Being seeded #2 guaranteed you will not meet the #1 see before the final.
Seriously, what are you smoking!?

We have provided several examples of matches at the YEC that would (potentially) have secured various players a better ranking, where these players still gave two fucks about the whole thing. And yet you keep dreaming up what-if scenarios, you keep believing the players would care... based on what, exactly?
Oct 27th, 2013 02:23 PM
tennislover22
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Radwanska had won yesterday, wouldn't SHE be ranked #4 still, and Sharapova get dropped to #5? They're only going to be 16 points apart as it is. Being seeded #4 vs #5 at OZ is no small thing.

But maybe I just have the numbers wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
There is also the possible scenario for Li Na had she lost her semi, and there was a possibility that she could take over the #3 position winning the 3rd place, match, you don't think she would be motivated.

BTW, those argue only players are motivated by the trophy, I believe Li Na ha won only one title this this year, and she is #3 now.
Of course ranking points are important.
As you stated, where you seeded is important. Being seeded #2 guaranteed you will not meet the #1 see before the final.
Oct 27th, 2013 02:20 PM
Marlene
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Radwanska had won yesterday, wouldn't SHE be ranked #4 still, and Sharapova get dropped to #5? They're only going to be 16 points apart as it is. Being seeded #4 vs #5 at OZ is no small thing.

But maybe I just have the numbers wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
That's correct, but it was a dead rubber for Radwanska in terms of making the SFs, at least after she had lost the 1st set. Kerber on the other hand had plenty to play for because this was only her 2nd RR match and her fate wasn't sealed yet. But either way, my point was that $$$s and ranking points don't motivate the players at this stage.
Oct 27th, 2013 01:53 PM
Volcana
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlene View Post
This.

You can already see how the players can hardly find the motivation to play dead rubbers in the RRs, even though they get 230 pts and $140k for a win. (E.g. Radwanska yesterday, Stosur last year, Azarenka and Sharapova two years ago).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Radwanska had won yesterday, wouldn't SHE be ranked #4 still, and Sharapova get dropped to #5? They're only going to be 16 points apart as it is. Being seeded #4 vs #5 at OZ is no small thing.

But maybe I just have the numbers wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
Oct 27th, 2013 01:48 PM
Leaubellon
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyk75 View Post
They used to have some third-place play-offs at some events way back in the day. Pam Shriver talked about it in her tour diary book from the 80's. According to her, "all the players" hated them, and they were thought of as just glorified exhibitions. Top players already complain about how much tennis they have to play, so I just don't see this idea faring well.
Yup, there used to be a third place match at YEC during the 80's when it was played at Madison Square Garden. I remember reading that Mandlikova withdrew from such a match and the organizers came up with a last minute happy birthday celebration for Kathy Rinaldi instead. lol
Oct 27th, 2013 01:31 PM
ozza
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
About your players will not be motivated to play for nothing.

I already posted the same, but let me quote anthonyqld's comment. Some of you are underestimating the level of professionalism by repeating lack of motivation mantra

I just like to add, that some of the players come to the YEC with realistic expectation to do their level best, and not necessarily to win the trophy.
For these player it matter how many matches they win.
That final rubber if it's a dead rubber is full of tanking and general half arsing. We've seen it just over the last couple of years from Clijsters, Azarenka, Radwanska. That's exactly how I envision a 3rd placed match to be like.
Oct 27th, 2013 11:17 AM
tommyk75
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

They used to have some third-place play-offs at some events way back in the day. Pam Shriver talked about it in her tour diary book from the 80's. According to her, "all the players" hated them, and they were thought of as just glorified exhibitions. Top players already complain about how much tennis they have to play, so I just don't see this idea faring well.
Oct 27th, 2013 06:35 AM
tennislover22
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozza View Post
You are right with your last line that "vulturing" is just a strategic hunting of ranking points. But in terms of overall prizes you don't win any big prizes by this. Obviously for some players this is smart, if your chances in the bigger events are limited, then you are better off for your career by going down this route, but this isn't how you reach the ultimate prizes in the sport.

For example, what would you rather do in the year, be like Bartoli and have won Wimbledon this year. Or be someone like Jankovic/Kerber who just made Istanbul in the last couple of weeks of the season. Aside from the fact that Bartoli's now retired, would anyone seriously take the latter?

Anyway I don't think this 3rd place match idea would be met with much welcome from the players, and I can't help but feel such a match would just have one big feeling of meh about it. It's hard for anyone to get excited (players, fans, media) when you are essentially playing for nothing.
About your players will not be motivated to play for nothing.

I already posted the same, but let me quote anthonyqld's comment. Some of you are underestimating the level of professionalism by repeating lack of motivation mantra

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyqld View Post
The players still play the final RR match even if the result doesn't matter, and they can't make the SF.

I just like to add, that some of the players come to the YEC with realistic expectation to do their level best, and not necessarily to win the trophy.
For these player it matter how many matches they win.
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