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  Topic Review (Newest First)
Jul 2nd, 2013 09:59 AM
Chiquitita.
Re: Tipping doubles (2012) ideas, suggestions...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ma re View Post
So here we are at the second week of Wimbledon 2013 and still without solutions to some of the old problems of tipping doubles. Therefore just tell me if you are in favor of these suggestions to become rules:

- that when it comes to super tie-break, which is played in all tournaments except Grand slams, we play this "third set" separately; therefore if you think the STB will be played in this match you write "22 games + 16 points" - first one for the two sets and the second one for the super tie-break

- that we reduce the bonus points given at YEC to those of a Premier event - it's just 4 teams and 3 matches to play so no reason to reward tipping players with so many bonus points
yes

yes

that wasnt so hard
Jul 2nd, 2013 09:46 AM
ma re
Re: Tipping doubles (2012) ideas, suggestions...?

So here we are at the second week of Wimbledon 2013 and still without solutions to some of the old problems of tipping doubles. Therefore just tell me if you are in favor of these suggestions to become rules:

- that when it comes to super tie-break, which is played in all tournaments except Grand slams, we play this "third set" separately; therefore if you think the STB will be played in this match you write "22 games + 16 points" - first one for the two sets and the second one for the super tie-break

- that we reduce the bonus points given at YEC to those of a Premier event - it's just 4 teams and 3 matches to play so no reason to reward tipping players with so many bonus points
Feb 17th, 2013 06:15 PM
Chiquitita.
Re: Tipping doubles (2012) ideas, suggestions...?

I don't really like that suggestion - between two closely matched pairs it's a bit of a lottery whether it goes a super tie-break or not. Also it's a bit complicated to learn.
Feb 17th, 2013 01:51 PM
coolfish1103
Re: Tipping doubles (2012) ideas, suggestions...?

Tournaments with super tie break:

If the players believe there will be super tie break, they will guess

16 games and 17 points

If the players believe there will be no super tie break, simply guess

16 games

Sort by games first then points if games guessed are the same.
Dec 6th, 2012 08:46 AM
ma re
Re: Tipping doubles (2012) ideas, suggestions...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Håkon View Post
Um...that contradicts your post #43

The averages: team A 20.5, team B 22.5, so team B wins by the average method, while team A wins by the method you just described.

I was talking about when the averages were just as far away (say, team A had guessed 19 & 24).
Really don't know what I was thinking...actually I do, what I wrote in the last post was an idea I initially had, but then we went with the average. You're right about picking the closer instead of faster team member, that actually makes much more sense.
Dec 6th, 2012 08:40 AM
Chiquitita.
Re: Tipping doubles (2012) ideas, suggestions...?

Um...that contradicts your post #43

Quote:
"During a tournament, points of a team are a sum of points earned by the two players (e.g. 31+24=55 for a team). For a final match number of games is guessed and the average of the two numbers guessed by the team members is used to solve ties (23+27=50/2=25). If two teams have the same average, the team with the fastest poster wins."
The averages: team A 20.5, team B 22.5, so team B wins by the average method, while team A wins by the method you just described.

I was talking about when the averages were just as far away (say, team A had guessed 19 & 24).
Dec 6th, 2012 08:34 AM
ma re
Re: Tipping doubles (2012) ideas, suggestions...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Håkon View Post
Well I hope you wouldn't guess 28 games then because the maximum would be 26.

I think that may be the fairest and easiest solution to implement.

Idea: should 'one of the team members closer' be a tie-breaker before who posted first? IMO, if the match is 20 games, 19 & 21 is a better tip than 17 & 23. (Not entirely sure the 2nd one is a better tip when the match is 16 games, though...)
Smartass

As for the second part of your post, currently we break ties by looking at the guess of a player who is closer and compare it to the closer one of the other team. Example: if it 22 games and team A guesses 17 and 24, while team B guesses 19 and 26, cause 24 is closer than 19. Hope that's what you're referring to.
Dec 6th, 2012 08:19 AM
Chiquitita.
Re: Tipping doubles (2012) ideas, suggestions...?

Well I hope you wouldn't guess 28 games then because the maximum would be 26.

I think that may be the fairest and easiest solution to implement.

Idea: should 'one of the team members closer' be a tie-breaker before who posted first? IMO, if the match is 20 games, 19 & 21 is a better tip than 17 & 23. (Not entirely sure the 2nd one is a better tip when the match is 16 games, though...)
Dec 1st, 2012 09:06 AM
ma re
Re: Tipping doubles (2012) ideas, suggestions...?

I hate to interrupt this heated discussion between me and myself, but here's another suggestion for STB; that we guess the number of points in STB separately. In other words, you'd send something "like 28 games + 17 STB", meaning that you're guessing the match will end in 28 games, and that if it goes into STB your guess is 17 points. This way we could have another helpful detail to resolve ties - who was closer in guessing the number of STB points.
Nov 14th, 2012 09:42 AM
ma re
Re: Tipping doubles (2012) ideas, suggestions...?

Ahead of the new season we need to establish some things in doubles and turn them into rules.

As discussed earlier, I propose that we disregard the rule of a three partner yearly maximum, and implement the point transfer rule. So if two players have decided not to play together anymore, each takes 50% of the points they've earned together (+ points which one brought into the partnership) and transfers them into another partnership. This would make partner lists obsolete, as you wouldn't need to pay attention anymore with whom you're about to team-up and if you're allowed to do so.

Since there is a proposition for a new bonus point distribution for singles, that would automatically affect doubles. Therefore, since singles would award 12 players only in majors and PM's, the same would apply for doubles (12 players and 6 teams), while in other tournament categories there would be no changes (8 players and 4 teams). For more info, see the poll in the Tipping section of the Games forum.

There was a suggestion of allowing players to sign up in advance, to solve the problem of teams forming after the tournament has already started. We could have this by managers openning threads days in advance (a week would probably do) or by sending your team applications via PM to the manager.

We never established any specific rules regarding a super tie-break. It is played in the finals of every tournament except a grand slam, which means that guessing the games the standard way might not be possible. But counting each point in the STB as a game in tipping wouldn't be practical either, because STB can go into considerable lenghts (say, 16-14; if first two sets went each to 6-4 that would require a guess of 50). However I'm not sure that counting STB as one point would be some great solution either. Maybe we should count STB as 1 point if you think it'll resolve by 10, two if you think it'll go after 10 but not beyond 20 and so on. So if you think the match will finish 6:3, 2:6 10:8 you'd guess 18 (9+8+1); but if you'd think the same STB would go to 16-14 you'd guess 19 (9+8+2), and one more if you'd think the STB would go beyond 30 points for the winner.

The final and tie breaker rule stay the same, as stated here: "During a tournament, points of a team are a sum of points earned by the two players (e.g. 31+24=55 for a team). For a final match number of games is guessed and the average of the two numbers guessed by the team members is used to solve ties (23+27=50/2=25). If two teams have the same average, the team with the fastest poster wins."

Another suggestion I have is to reduce points awarded at the doubles YEC and make them the same as those for a regular premier event, assuming we adopt the new bonus points distribution. It's just 4 teams competing in 3 matches, so giving so many points to the winner(s) is kind of ridiculous IMO.

I think this covers most of those unresolved (or not clarified) issues. If you have some other suggestions or ideas, feel free to speak up
Oct 21st, 2012 03:35 PM
Frederik
Re: Tipping doubles (2012) ideas, suggestions...?

yes. but top 8 for singles and top 4 for doubles (obviously)
Oct 21st, 2012 03:31 PM
longtin23
Re: Tipping doubles (2012) ideas, suggestions...?

Is it the YEC ranking points for doubles is the same as singles??
Oct 5th, 2012 08:19 PM
Chiquitita.
Re: Tipping doubles (2012) ideas, suggestions...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ma re View Post
So this would work pretty much like divorce in California, each leaves the marriage with 50% of assets regardless of how much each one brought in. But as you say, maybe it would be even better if we'd make that 50% of assets accumulated during the course of the marriage, so to speak.
Yeah, I think so. Particularly after a grand tournament, where 4-6 players could have a lot of points, and then lose them because they paired up with someone who doesn't want to continue the game next tournament.

Another alternative would be to have 1 or 2 YEC spots awarded on the singles ranking - and they could choose which partner they wanted to bring to the YEC.
Oct 5th, 2012 02:32 PM
ma re
Re: Tipping doubles (2012) ideas, suggestions...?

So here's roughly how it would work...

A and B partner at the start of the season, play some and earn 300 points, when something happens and they decide to part ways.

A teams up with AA and brings into this partnership 150 points. If AA is a newcomer with 0 points, they would have 150 of A's points to start with. They play some, the team falls apart for some reason and A takes half of their, let's say, 400 points into the new team. Teams up with AB who brings 180 points from his team (he hook up with B in the meantime), so they have 200 + 180 = 380. once they start to play together.

So this would work pretty much like divorce in California, each leaves the marriage with 50% of assets regardless of how much each one brought in. But as you say, maybe it would be even better if we'd make that 50% of assets accumulated during the course of the marriage, so to speak. Either way, it would be better than what we have now, when you have to work from scratch every time you change a partner and stand no chance of qualifying for the YEC once that happens.
Oct 5th, 2012 01:55 PM
Chiquitita.
Re: Tipping doubles (2012) ideas, suggestions...?

How would this work with those who change partners a lot (in the early season when newcomers don't find a partner?) Would they then have to give up a 50 % again when they pick yet another partner for the next tournament, even when they took more points into the new partnership?

I'm not against the idea in principle, I just think it needs some more clarification...
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