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  Topic Review (Newest First)
Nov 23rd, 2012 03:09 AM
Smitten
Re: 2000 Venus vs 2012 Serena

Quote:
Originally Posted by LBV. View Post
20 year old, pre-Sjogren's Venus vs 31 year old Lordrena?
And yet, it would still be a dogfight.
The only dogfight would be Venus pushing the photogs out of the way to take pictures again. That thing will never take Sarin.
Nov 17th, 2012 05:05 AM
forehand27
Re: 2000 Venus vs 2012 Serena

Quote:
Originally Posted by LBV. View Post
20 year old, pre-Sjogren's Venus vs 31 year old Lordrena?
And yet, it would still be a dogfight.
Good for 20 year old Venus. A dogfight vs 31 year old Lordrena is already 100000x more than any of the CURRENT WTA can apparently manage.
Nov 17th, 2012 04:52 AM
Stamp Paid
Re: 2000 Venus vs 2012 Serena

20 year old, pre-Sjogren's Venus vs 31 year old Lordrena?
And yet, it would still be a dogfight.
Nov 17th, 2012 04:16 AM
Stonerpova
Re: 2000 Venus vs 2012 Serena

Serena. Because after she hit 20 she won all the big matches. Tougher mentally, tennis is irrelevant.
Nov 17th, 2012 03:39 AM
SV_Fan
Re: 2000 Venus vs 2012 Serena

Venus In New Haven 2000 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Rest of The WTA Tour .... the pace, the power, athelticism, everything !!!!
Nov 16th, 2012 07:58 PM
forehand27
Re: 2000 Venus vs 2012 Serena

This is a good question. As outstanding as 2012 Serena still is, I cant think for a moment she is as good an overall player as the 2002 Serena, even if some aspects of her game and play are as good or better than ever today (serve, point construction). Despite reaching 4 slam finals in a row there are also many who feel 2000 Venus was slightly better than 2002 Venus, atleast when she had it going. So this would be a tough one. It would depend alot on the mental aspect. I definitely feel the mental aspect held Venus back vs Serena in 2002-2003, even if Serena was the better player then, Venus still could have done better. In this newly presented matchup if Venus has it mentally to deal with taking on her sister she has a good shot, but that is a big if. Too big an if which is why I still went with 2012 Serena.
Nov 16th, 2012 06:47 PM
madeaismad
Re: 2000 Venus vs 2012 Serena

In 2000, Venus displayed what COULD go down as the best show of movement on a tennis court for female tennis player ever. I think based on her movement alone, she would beat Serena of 2012, straight sets, but something like 6-4, 7-5. Although, it's interesting because I just watched some highlights of Venus playing at Wimbledon in 2007, and from the match she had with Maria onwards, Venus was moving and hitting the ball better than ever. Serves consistently in the 115+ range, groundstrokes flying through the court with unbelievable pace, and her movement was SCARY. I think comparing that Venus to Serena of 2012 or even 2002 would be an interesting discussion.
Nov 16th, 2012 06:39 PM
lloyders76
Re: 2000 Venus vs 2012 Serena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olórin View Post
In a match against Hingis. I seriously hope you aren't judging Venus' form on one match. Hingis naturally tended to disrupt Venus' rhythm. No accident she played by light years her worst match since Wimbledon against Hingis in the semis of the US Open. In a match vs. Davenport Venus wouldn't hit nearly as many loopy balls.

And the reason a fair proportion of her shots were like that is because she tracked down balls that no-one else, maybe not even peak Serena could get. Thus keeping the ball in play via looping, when the point should have been over.

If you think she hit with a lot more power and depth in her later you years all that means is that you haven't watched enough of her earlier matches. Her New Haven final against Seles showcased some remarkable hitting, going for the lines with power and accuracy like women's tennis had never until that point and still hasn't been truly surpassed yet. Your statement that Venus hit a lot more powerfully in her later years and that the majority of her shots in 2000 were loopy are surely not based in fact.

It's actually a really interesting question. 2012 Serena might win because of a more consistent serve, but it would certainly be close. Equally you could say that Venus would track down balls that Azarenka, Li, Kerber or Sharapova had no hope of getting and extent enough rallies to irritate Serena into errors. Ultimate 2012 Serena is a product of what she needs to beat her peers, and a player of 2000 Venus' calibre simply isn't among them.

fair points, though i saw plenty of her matches from that period, it's just that i rewatched highlights of the wimbledon qf. an i was talking about rally shots being loopy and short, not balls returned by venus on the stretch, but i take your points

i just think she tended to hit harder and go for the lines shot for shot more from 07-09, so that when she was fully on and accurate she was more formidable than in 2000
Nov 16th, 2012 05:38 PM
Olórin
Re: 2000 Venus vs 2012 Serena

Quote:
Originally Posted by lloyders76 View Post
just watched venus v hingis at 2000 wimbledon,

the serena of 2012 wins 6-2 6-2, venus hits a lot more powerfully in her later years, early years (including 2000) the majority of shots tended to be loopy, and in this match especially they were landing pretty short
In a match against Hingis. I seriously hope you aren't judging Venus' form on one match. Hingis naturally tended to disrupt Venus' rhythm. No accident she played by light years her worst match since Wimbledon against Hingis in the semis of the US Open. In a match vs. Davenport Venus wouldn't hit nearly as many loopy balls.

And the reason a fair proportion of her shots were like that is because she tracked down balls that no-one else, maybe not even peak Serena could get. Thus keeping the ball in play via looping, when the point should have been over.

If you think she hit with a lot more power and depth in her later you years all that means is that you haven't watched enough of her earlier matches. Her New Haven final against Seles showcased some remarkable hitting, going for the lines with power and accuracy like women's tennis had never until that point and still hasn't been truly surpassed yet. Your statement that Venus hit a lot more powerfully in her later years and that the majority of her shots in 2000 were loopy are surely not based in fact.

It's actually a really interesting question. 2012 Serena might win because of a more consistent serve, but it would certainly be close. Equally you could say that Venus would track down balls that Azarenka, Li, Kerber or Sharapova had no hope of getting and extent enough rallies to irritate Serena into errors. Ultimate 2012 Serena is a product of what she needs to beat her peers, and a player of 2000 Venus' calibre simply isn't among them.
Nov 16th, 2012 05:37 PM
young_gunner913
Re: 2000 Venus vs 2012 Serena

Quote:
Originally Posted by bandabou View Post
But remember this is only Serena's SECOND best season..and it's foolish to compare a 20 year old Vee to a 31 year old Serena.
Exactly. Especially over a decade apart. It's obvious that Venus beat tougher players her run but Serena decimated the best this generation had to offer.
Nov 16th, 2012 05:31 PM
bandabou
Re: 2000 Venus vs 2012 Serena

But remember this is only Serena's SECOND best season..and it's foolish to compare a 20 year old Vee to a 31 year old Serena.
Nov 16th, 2012 05:07 PM
DeucesAreWild
Re: 2000 Venus vs 2012 Serena

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
Venus:
Hingis x2, Seles x3, Davenport x3, ASV x1, Serena x1, Dementieva x1
Enough said, thank you. Definitely Venus IMO.
Nov 16th, 2012 05:06 PM
AcesHigh
Re: 2000 Venus vs 2012 Serena

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeucesAreWild View Post
Does anyone have a list of the quality of player(s) both defeated in their runs? I think that would be the deciding factor for me.
Venus:
Hingis x2, Seles x3, Davenport x3, ASV x1, Serena x1, Dementieva x1
Nov 16th, 2012 04:56 PM
DeucesAreWild
Re: 2000 Venus vs 2012 Serena

Does anyone have a list of the quality of player(s) both defeated in their runs? I think that would be the deciding factor for me.
Nov 16th, 2012 04:56 PM
Queen_Vee_92
Re: 2000 Venus vs 2012 Serena

The only aspect of the game that makes this even debateable is the serve.

The Rena 2012 serve could make this match up close just because of a sheer inability to be broken.

But peak Venus would outhit this Serena, and as others have mentioned would athletically outmanoeuvre 2012 Serena in every area of the court.
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