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  Topic Review (Newest First)
Oct 28th, 2012 04:56 PM
Excelscior
Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012 (1 match and a withdrawal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
Yup, I watched and there's no disagreement on Petra's performance at the 2011 YEC: she was AMAZING.

But I also noticed that a certain all-time great could not take part, because she had suffered from a hematoma and a pulmonary embolism early in 2011 and therefore hadn't amassed enough points to qualify for YEC.

And I also noticed that a certain multi-slam champion had to withdraw from the 2011 YEC as a result of the ankle injury she had suffered in Tokyo.

Let's be honest, the above medical issues of these two great players (and I am not a big fan of either of them TBH) made Petra's YEC title run easier.

So once again, no disagreement on Petra's great play at last year's YEC. Those kind of performances are BTW the reason why I am a fan.
I find it hard to believe that you could really understand Petra's level of play--many times in 2011, while at the same time bemoan her achievements due to the lack of (especially) Sharapova and even Serena's form. Most people at worst would say, "boy I would love to see both of them playing at their highest level during the same season and matches".

If you were happy about Maria winning yesterday (and why you feel Petra's 2011 was some how tainted), that's cool. You could have went to Maria's subforum to write about it and not here; the same with Serena! What you're doing seems totally out of place, especially now.

So what happens, if/when Petra's starts beating either one of them in 2013? Are you going to be the first one happily proclaiming "You see Petra wasn't playing up to her 2011" standard"? Or are going to say again "Serena and Sharapova are not playing up to THEIR standard". What gives?

What you don't get is, Petra can stink Up Da Joint for the next 6 years, that doesn't take away from the level of tennis she played in 2011. Obviously Aga's coach noticed, and noted that as well.

Now if Petra didn't play some fabulous tennis in 2011, then everything you say would make sense/be more appropriate. But the fact that she played some otherworldly tennis at times (including her demeanor, confidence, anticipation, shotmaking, movement, mental focus--when needed, fitness, etc.), should provide her that proverbial bye and Statute Of Limitations for the future.

Everyone knows what you mean. And it's not like there isn't some truth to it. However, Petra earned her way to those titles with spectacular play. It's not like she bullshitted her way through off reputation, guile/savvy, intimidation or good fortune--as so many other great players have (even though Petra could use some of that--now by the way).
Oct 28th, 2012 12:27 PM
pling
Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012 (1 match and a withdrawal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Petra Fan View Post
I hear you. Sure, I've thought about it Ex, but without any REAL behind the scenes info all we're left with is conjecture.

My gut feeling is Kotyza has really tried like hell to push Petra (and Cernosek sees this which is why he is not out already) but for whatever reason he has become ineffective in getting her to improve her technique or work ethic. We've heard the talk she doesn't like structured, demanding, boot camp like training practices (thus Ivanko probably got the boot for pushing her that way, no fault of his in my eyes, and no wonder Cernosek still wants to use him with the boys). We know she values Kotyza's sympathetic qualities, but has he just become an emotional crutch for her? Has he become an enabler for her lax work ethic because she knows she can get away with it with him? Sometimes the player/coach relationship becomes too cozy to be effective. I think this is what has happened with Petra and Kotyza. From all appearances it seems the decision to switch lies with Petra, not Cernosek for the time being. That being said, I think this situation is going to be coming to a head in the not too distant future. It has to be discussed internally. Decisions need to be made about Petra's future. The status quo is not going to cut it moving forward.

The bottom line is I blame everything on Petra and Kotyza not Cernosek (for now).

Just my ten cents.
I haven't taken in part in these discussions much, cos like you say we only really have conjecture about it. But I do agree that the bottom line is how motivated Petra herself will be on getting fit and focused next year. Other people won't be able to force her to do this. Serena found tremendous drive and focus this year after a long difficult period; let's hope Petra still has the desire to do the same.

And for the other discussions above about whether Petra's 2011, remember that her 0-3 H2H with Serena is not as bad as it looks. The first two losses were AO and Wimbledon 2010, both slams that Serena won as the No 1. Petra was outside top 50 and still took Serena to a tiebreak at Wimby (Maria the only other player in the draw to do that). And the third was of course this year's wimbledon, when Serena was again on the way to the trophy and Petra's form was declining - but Petra still gave a competitive match. So I think it's fair to suggest that if Serena had been fit in 2011, to play the Petra of Madrid, Wimbledon or YEC, Petra could have grabbed some wins. And if Petra gets her mojo back, then she can beat Serena in the future.
Oct 28th, 2012 09:42 AM
Queen Petra Fan
Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012 (1 match and a withdrawal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftyFella View Post
I think he is partially right. Petra, Pova and Vika won their share of slams only because Serena GOAT was absent, only Pova managed to beat Ree once but it was a long time ago(see flip-flop part). Ree now refocused and in great form, so basically all of them if they want to win more slams need to figure out how to beat her or pray she would flop to no names at slam. Where i find him wrong is on the whole YEC winning thing, Petra winning YEC was meant to happen same way Rena winning OG because they both were in ultra focus hungry zone and it was destined from the above.
I agree with almost all of this except for the meant from above comment.

It's human beings playing the matches not angels or spirits. It's sport, and that's all it is.

Please don't take my comments as being disrespectful to your beliefs Shifty. Just injecting a little reality into the conversation.
Oct 28th, 2012 09:28 AM
Queen Petra Fan
Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012 (1 match and a withdrawal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
Can you say/ask, where's her consistent hitting partner (on the first bolded point)?

As discussed, I think this has a lot to do with Petra's wildness (along with brainfarts, lack of game plan and requisite conditioning or form).

I think on this or another post, you had mentioned the subject of Csersonek and needed changes to Petra's team.

Did you ever think about this QPF? Maybe Csersonek's part of the problem? Or maybe, Csersonek already went to Petra about possible changes and Petra nearly freaked out/said no, so his hands felt tied with his current meal ticket?

That's why she needs and additional/better team or advisors around her (if Petra feels so committed to Kotyza).
I hear you. Sure, I've thought about it Ex, but without any REAL behind the scenes info all we're left with is conjecture.

My gut feeling is Kotyza has really tried like hell to push Petra (and Cernosek sees this which is why he is not out already) but for whatever reason he has become ineffective in getting her to improve her technique or work ethic. We've heard the talk she doesn't like structured, demanding, boot camp like training practices (thus Ivanko probably got the boot for pushing her that way, no fault of his in my eyes, and no wonder Cernosek still wants to use him with the boys). We know she values Kotyza's sympathetic qualities, but has he just become an emotional crutch for her? Has he become an enabler for her lax work ethic because she knows she can get away with it with him? Sometimes the player/coach relationship becomes too cozy to be effective. I think this is what has happened with Petra and Kotyza. From all appearances it seems the decision to switch lies with Petra, not Cernosek for the time being. That being said, I think this situation is going to be coming to a head in the not too distant future. It has to be discussed internally. Decisions need to be made about Petra's future. The status quo is not going to cut it moving forward.

The bottom line is I blame everything on Petra and Kotyza not Cernosek (for now).

Just my ten cents.
Oct 28th, 2012 03:52 AM
18majors
Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012 (1 match and a withdrawal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
Yup, I watched and there's no disagreement on Petra's performance at the 2011 YEC: she was AMAZING.

But I also noticed that a certain all-time great could not take part, because she had suffered from a hematoma and a pulmonary embolism early in 2011 and therefore hadn't amassed enough points to qualify for YEC.

And I also noticed that a certain multi-slam champion had to withdraw from the 2011 YEC as a result of the ankle injury she had suffered in Tokyo.

Let's be honest, the above medical issues of these two great players (and I am not a big fan of either of them TBH) made Petra's YEC title run easier.

So once again, no disagreement on Petra's great play at last year's YEC. Those kind of performances are BTW the reason why I am a fan.
What's past is prologue and they're water under the bridge.

The important thing is that both Petra and Maria will shine as WTA's superstars in 2013.
Oct 28th, 2012 01:44 AM
Petronius
Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012 (1 match and a withdrawal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
Secondly, did you watch Petra at the YEC last year? Did you actually watch the matches? Are you comparing that Petra to this years Petra?
Yup, I watched and there's no disagreement on Petra's performance at the 2011 YEC: she was AMAZING.

But I also noticed that a certain all-time great could not take part, because she had suffered from a hematoma and a pulmonary embolism early in 2011 and therefore hadn't amassed enough points to qualify for YEC.

And I also noticed that a certain multi-slam champion had to withdraw from the 2011 YEC as a result of the ankle injury she had suffered in Tokyo.

Let's be honest, the above medical issues of these two great players (and I am not a big fan of either of them TBH) made Petra's YEC title run easier.

So once again, no disagreement on Petra's great play at last year's YEC. Those kind of performances are BTW the reason why I am a fan.
Oct 27th, 2012 11:26 PM
Excelscior
Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012 (1 match and a withdrawal)

Quote:
=Petronius;22392597LOL, I love going over this with you. My point is obvious: Yes, Petra was in BETTER shape last year, but on the other hand, Serena and Sharapova were in WORSE shape, they were not playing at their best.

It is short-sighted to celebrate wins when your favorite player is near to her peak, while the opposition is off-peak. Anyway, the numbers are clear, Petra is 0-3 in her last three matches against both Serena and Maria.

Moreover, Serena and Sharpie have already proven they can win or get to the finals of big tournaments even without any warm-up. They are simply that good. Petra's yet to prove this.

I will be more than happy, if Petra works hard in the off-season and beats Serena, Maria and Azarenka in 2013, while displaying a great offensive tennis.
I still don't get your point, and you didn't answer my question/s?

When Aga's coach described Petra approaching the "Perfect Tennis player", do you really think Sharapova would have beat that (Hint: she's good, but not that good, and limited)? Why do you think he said that in the first place, and off what basis?

Secondly, did you watch Petra at the YEC last year? Did you actually watch the matches? Are you comparing that Petra to this years Petra? Can you tell/see the differences (even incorporating Vika, Sharapova or Serena into the mix--as you like). My god, Petra lost in straights sets to Aga at the YEC this year, and you got the nerve to knock on Petra's success there last year, compared to Sharapova this year?

Thirdly, why do you keep bringing up last year--with Sharapova and Serena this year (especially at the YEC)? What does Sharapova's win today, have to do with Petra? How come you weren't bringing up Sharapova, when she was losing quarterfinals or semifinals at various Grass and Hardcourt matches? I don't get it?

Petra beat who was in front of her and she played some spectacular tennis doing so. I just don't see what's your point in diminishing those achievements--especially now?

This has nothing to do about feeling good, cause last years over. This year, Petra's been disappointing, inconsistent, yes--had some success, but nonetheless she's gotten worse since Aug-September.

Maria has played very well this year. Yes! But I don't think she's been a world beater either (maybe you don't notice this). Nonetheless, she's been very solid (with her best success during the clay court season). I just don't understand why you would bring up Petra 2011 today, just cause Maria finally beat Azarenka on a hard court at the end of 2012? Misplaced priorities, I guess (do some Petra fans really have that much of a complex with Maria)? Petra's got enough of her own problems.

Nonetheless, next year can be a completely different year for all parties involved.

We'll see?
Oct 27th, 2012 10:12 PM
ShiftyFella
Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012 (1 match and a withdrawal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
LOL, I love going over this with you. My point is obvious: Yes, Petra was in BETTER shape last year, but on the other hand, Serena and Sharapova were in WORSE shape, they were not playing at their best.

It is short-sighted to celebrate wins when your favorite player is near to her peak, while the opposition is off-peak. Anyway, the numbers are clear, Petra is 0-3 in her last three matches against both Serena and Maria.

Moreover, Serena and Sharpie have already proven they can win or get to the finals of big tournaments even without any warm-up. They are simply that good. Petra's yet to prove this.

I will be more than happy, if Petra works hard in the off-season and beats Serena, Maria and Azarenka in 2013, while displaying a great offensive tennis.
So how this is Petra's fault? Petra beat who she have to beat on route to her titles, you can't diminish her achievements just because of that. I agree she has to beat them at the big stage like Vika did against Masha this year and be consistent enough to reach at least SF in slams but not less than QF in order to be considered proper TOP player in the future but in 2011 especially at YEC she validated her slam win.
Oct 27th, 2012 09:50 PM
Petronius
Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012 (1 match and a withdrawal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
Would you stop with this please, when every body knows--down to Aga's coach even, that Petra is not the same player she was last year.

Geesh! The guy compared her to approaching the Perfect Tennis Player last year. Do you really think Sharapova would have beat that (or you really can't tell the differences between Petra's game this year and last year)?
LOL, I love going over this with you. My point is obvious: Yes, Petra was in BETTER shape last year, but on the other hand, Serena and Sharapova were in WORSE shape, they were not playing at their best.

It is short-sighted to celebrate wins when your favorite player is near to her peak, while the opposition is off-peak. Anyway, the numbers are clear, Petra is 0-3 in her last three matches against both Serena and Maria.

Moreover, Serena and Sharpie have already proven they can win or get to the finals of big tournaments even without any warm-up. They are simply that good. Petra's yet to prove this.

I will be more than happy, if Petra works hard in the off-season and beats Serena, Maria and Azarenka in 2013, while displaying a great offensive tennis.
Oct 27th, 2012 07:44 PM
Excelscior
Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012 (1 match and a withdrawal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftyFella View Post
I think he is partially right. Petra, Pova and Vika won their share of slams only because Serena GOAT was absent, only Pova managed to beat Ree once but it was a long time ago(see flip-flop part). Ree now refocused and in great form, so basically all of them if they want to win more slams need to figure out how to beat her or pray she would flop to no names at slam. Where i find him wrong is on the whole YEC winning thing, Petra winning YEC was meant to happen same way Rena winning OG because they both were in ultra focus hungry zone and it was destined from the above.
You noticed, I didn't mention Rena (purposefully). I only mentioned Pova. Big difference.

The second bolded paragraph is self explanatory.
Oct 27th, 2012 07:41 PM
ShiftyFella
Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012 (1 match and a withdrawal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
Would you stop with this please, when every body knows--down to Aga's coach even, that Petra is not the same player she was last year.

Geesh! The guy compared her to approaching the Perfect Tennis Player last year. Do you really think Sharapova would have beat that (or you really can't tell the differences between Petra's game this year and last year)?

Honestly; did you actually/really watch the YEC last year Petronius? Seriously.

This is not about how well or lucky Sharapova is playing (Vika may have been tired or injured). Stop taking away from Petra's year/YEC last year, when she obviously hasn't lived up to that standard this year. Plus, last years over. Petra's' got bigger, her own concerns--than what Sharapova and Serena are doing right now.

What is so hard to see?
I think he is partially right. Petra, Pova and Vika won their share of slams only because Serena GOAT was absent, only Pova managed to beat Ree once but it was a long time ago(see flip-flop part). Ree now refocused and in great form, so basically all of them if they want to win more slams need to figure out how to beat her or pray she would flop to no names at slam. Where i find him wrong is on the whole YEC winning thing, Petra winning YEC was meant to happen same way Rena winning OG because they both were in ultra focus hungry zone and it was destined from the above.
Oct 27th, 2012 07:09 PM
Excelscior
Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012 (1 match and a withdrawal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
We know the finalists.

And it makes me even more insist on my opinion that one of the reasons Petra won the YEC last year is that neither Serena, nor healthy Maria participated in the tournament.


It would be nice to see the outcome if all these three were healthy and played their best, but we'll have to wait until 2013.
Would you stop with this please, when every body knows--down to Aga's coach even, that Petra is not the same player she was last year.

Geesh! The guy compared her to approaching the Perfect Tennis Player last year. Do you really think Sharapova would have beat that (or you really can't tell the differences between Petra's game this year and last year)?

Honestly; did you actually/really watch the YEC last year Petronius? Seriously.

This is not about how well or lucky Sharapova is playing (Vika may have been tired or injured). Stop taking away from Petra's year/YEC last year, when she obviously hasn't lived up to that standard this year. Plus, last years over. Petra's' got bigger, her own concerns--than what Sharapova and Serena are doing right now.

What is so hard to see?
Oct 27th, 2012 05:32 PM
Petronius
Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012 (1 match and a withdrawal)

We know the finalists.

And it makes me even more insist on my opinion that one of the reasons Petra won the YEC last year is that neither Serena, nor healthy Maria participated in the tournament.

It would be nice to see the outcome if all these three were healthy and played their best, but we'll have to wait until 2013.
Oct 27th, 2012 03:35 PM
Excelscior
Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012 (1 match and a withdrawal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Petra Fan View Post
I couldn't agree with you more POV.

What's been infuriating me about Petra's 'game' for a long time has been her inability to play some semblance of consistent 'normal' keep the ball between the lines tennis. It's ridiculous for a player of her talent level and ranking to play so wildly. In all my years of watching tennis, I've never seen a top player who was so damn wild with his/her shots. I'm not going to write a monologue about all of this, the matches and results speak for themselves. The bottom line because of this problem is she now consistently loses to people she should dominate, and she now has next to no chance of beating the top players. Has anyone noticed at YEC, when the announcers are talking about the tour's elite players, Petra is no longer part of the conversation? Sad.

And none of this even touches on what could be going on between her ears. That's the part that's been scaring me even more lately. Our poor Petra seems to be having big time confidence problems. Meanwhile, all of her top competitors Serena, Vika, Masha, etc.) seem to be happily, cockily, arrogantly, strutting their way to the finals of tournament after tournament. The second level of consistent performers on the tour seem to be the Hard Workers group: Aga, Sara, Angie, etc. In the past, Petra could get past this group because of superior talent and a modicum of consistency. Lately. . .

Frankly, I'm really worried now about how she will perform against BG's beloved Ana at Fed Cup. Even my seven year old commented that whoever the Czech #2 is better play well because Petra really stinks right now. Damn, even a seven year old can see the difference!

Let's hope the local support wakes her up for a moment so she can find her mojo again. She's going to need it. Itchy shorts aside, Ana has upped her game recently and will be fighting like hell for the win. She's been inspired this year (I believe she has a new coach (?). With the right strategy she could give Petra big problems. Lately, she's been playing fiesty and aggressively-that could give Petra problems if she's not ready to handle it.

Also, I wish Petra didn't have to play that stupid exhibition with Maria. Except for the cash, what the hell is that going to do for her. These two aren't even nearly at the same level at the moment. I hope Maria's feeling charitable that night, I somehow think she won't (Bagels anyone?). I had every chance to buy tickets to this farce, but for obvious reasons decided not to waste my money. I don't think it's going to be very entertaining....

Poor Petra. Poor Petra. What is she going to do with herself? How is she going to resurrect her game? When is she going to get her mojo back?

Without changes in her team, attitude and training program, I fear next year is going to look a lot like this year.
Petra's problems go way beyond just her health and fitness. I really pray she can find a way to turn things around.
She's a good kid and it's such a waste of talent.... What a shame.

QPF: On the Petra rollercoaster, til the wheels come off. Fed Cup here we come!!!
Can you say/ask, where's her consistent hitting partner (on the first bolded point)?

As discussed, I think this has a lot to do with Petra's wildness (along with brainfarts, lack of game plan and requisite conditioning or form).

I think on this or another post, you had mentioned the subject of Csersonek and needed changes to Petra's team.

Did you ever think about this QPF? Maybe Csersonek's part of the problem? Or maybe, Csersonek already went to Petra about possible changes and Petra nearly freaked out/said no, so his hands felt tied with his current meal ticket?

That's why she needs and additional/better team or advisors around her (if Petra feels so committed to Kotyza).
Oct 27th, 2012 07:30 AM
Queen Petra Fan
Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012 (1 match and a withdrawal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
I hope Petra will resurrect as early as November 3 and 4 to win the 7th FedCup trophy for CZ so that we can finally catch up with the Aussies in all-time rankings

Thank God we have such a great doubles team in case it comes down to it.

Andrea-Lucie
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