TennisForum.com - Reply to Topic
Thread: Greatest womens tennis player of all time Reply to Thread
Title:
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

Registration Image

  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
Jul 19th, 2011 12:26 AM
MB.
Re: Greatest womens tennis player of all time

This poll is Where is Caroline Wozniacki?!
Jul 18th, 2011 10:14 PM
LDVTennis
Re: Greatest womens tennis player of all time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini7 View Post
You have done it again haven't you - you *****!!!!!!!!.
You don't even know the half of it. But you are on the right track.

If you wish to learn more about the OP, see this link: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showp...2&postcount=78.

---
Jul 18th, 2011 06:20 PM
XSTopspin
Re: Greatest womens tennis player of all time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoleb View Post
I voted for it for fun. My vote is not evidence for anything.

But uhmm, there's obviously a troll in this thread with multiple usernames.
I would say fun serves a great purpose then.
Jul 18th, 2011 06:11 PM
danieln1
Re: Greatest womens tennis player of all time

Martina
Jul 18th, 2011 06:06 PM
Gemini7
Re: Greatest womens tennis player of all time

Quote:
Originally Posted by justineheninfan View Post
The other poll without Lenglen, Wills Moody, Seles (big TF fan favorite) didnt really make any sense. So out of the actually legitimate candidates who do you believe is the greatest female player of all time
You have done it again haven't you - you *****!!!!!!!!. Did you even bother to READ the other poll???????????? It was split into two threads with 20 nominations. Forgive me, but this person should be expelled from the site - they have just wasted everyone's time with yet another GOAT poll - this time one which could have been avoided had they bothered to READ the other one.

The two threads to other poll are at

http://www.tennisforum.com/12-general-messages/440490-who-greatest-female-singles-tennis-player-all-time.html

http://www.tennisforum.com/12-general-messages/440492-who-greatest-female-tennis-player-all-time-additional-nominations.html

And all and sundry will notice that Lenglen, Will-Moody, and Seles are all there!!!!! - the supposed justification for this pointless waste of everybodies time!!!!
Jul 18th, 2011 06:04 PM
Apoleb
Re: Greatest womens tennis player of all time

Quote:
Certainly it's not
"entirely meaningless" -- as evidenced by the fact that you voted yourself.
I voted for it for fun. My vote is not evidence for anything.

But uhmm, there's obviously a troll in this thread with multiple usernames.
Jul 18th, 2011 06:00 PM
XSTopspin
Re: Greatest womens tennis player of all time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoleb View Post
I voted for Graf just because I had to but I want to ask:

why does anyone care?

What difference would it make if people thought Graf, Navratilova, Evert or Court was the GOAT? They played across very different eras, and it's painfully clear that not one of those was so much ahead of any other in regards to both achievements and influence on the game, especially that each one had a distinctive style with its flaws and advantages. This very fact makes all comparisons very subjective and almost arbitrary cause there are far too many variable factors to account for. And even if it's remotely possible to pick one, it's entirely meaningless. Should we start worshipping at her feet when the poll closes? It's taking the ideal of competition in sports a little far too much.

These are all greats of the game, and they just deserve to be celebrated as such.
Kum-bah-yah....

Seriously though, we do it for the same reason we debate politics even though no politicians
ever accomplish anything...because we feel strongly about it. Certainly it's not
"entirely meaningless" -- as evidenced by the fact that you voted yourself.

As for my vote I'd say Martina = Greatest, Serena = Best. Martina knocked Chrissy off her
perch while she was still at her peak. Steffi didn't do that, and IMHO it would have happened
to her if Monica hadn't gotten hurt.

P.S. No more lurky, lurky!
Jul 18th, 2011 05:25 PM
calou
Re: Greatest womens tennis player of all time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoleb View Post
I voted for Graf just because I had to but I want to ask:

why does anyone care?

What difference would it make if people thought Graf, Navratilova, Evert or Court was the GOAT? They played across very different eras, and it's painfully clear that not one of those was so much ahead of any other in regards to both achievements and influence on the game, especially that each one had a distinctive style with its flaws and advantages. This very fact makes all comparisons very subjective and almost arbitrary cause there are far too many variable factors to account for. And even if it's remotely possible to pick one, it's entirely meaningless. Should we start worshipping at her feet when the poll closes? It's taking the ideal of competition in sports a little far too much.

These are all greats of the game, and they just deserve to be celebrated as such.
Very smart post
Jul 18th, 2011 05:10 PM
Excelscior
Re: Greatest womens tennis player of all time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoleb View Post
I voted for Graf just because I had to but I want to ask:

why does anyone care?

What difference would it make if people thought Graf, Navratilova, Evert or Court was the GOAT? They played across very different eras, and it's painfully clear that not one of those was so much ahead of any other in regards to both achievements and influence on the game, especially that each one had a distinctive style with its flaws and advantages. This very fact makes all comparisons very subjective and almost arbitrary cause there are far too many variable factors to account for. And even if it's remotely possible to pick one, it's entirely meaningless. Should we start worshipping at her feet when the poll closes?

These are all greats of the game, and they just deserve to be celebrated as such.
BINGO!!!
Jul 18th, 2011 05:10 PM
MrSerenaWilliams
Re: Greatest womens tennis player of all time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam L View Post
IMO

Greatest contribution to the sport: Suzanne Lenglen

Greatest by the numbers: Margaret Court

Greatest by ability at physical peak: Serena Williams
I would argue that King could replace Lenglen and that Navratilova could replace Court, but...this basically sums it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
This is always the big argument in Sports.

Was Hakeem Olajuwon the greatest Center in NBA history, cause he was the best Center, when the best, biggest, tallest, most athletic Centers played?

Some would ask, was Wilt Chamberlain (or Kareem Abdul Jabbar even) The best Center ever cause they dominated the best/more over their contemporaries than ever before?

Now of course athletes who dominated in the 1960's, generally are not going to be as dominate over their peers in 2011 (or their contemporaries). So it gets complicated. We all know this.

I think here, we blended (taken from two different posters), a Peak Play vs Peak Physical play argument, actually. Those are two different arguments.

If it's simple play or domination; then I think Chris, Steffi and Navratilova win that out easy. If it's who was the most physically gifted, than that becomes more complicated.

Do you wanna say Serena, cause she 5'9", 165lb, fast, powerful, etc., then you can. But that doesn't mean she was that much more physically better than her peers, compared to Martina or Graf (though she may of been). But I'm not sure what that even means, cause skill level wise, it wasn't enough for Serena to dominate the sport the way Chris or Martina did, or even Graf a relative contemporary of hers (unless we change the scales or judgements). Of course Serena supporters, can make that argument as well, by saying their competition/physicality was better (though as Chris Williams pointed out the other day; players of the 60-70's had their condition/court requirements that many players today could/maybe not deal with, no like medical time outs, standing between games, no on court trainers, TV time outs, entourages (massage therapist, nutritionist, etc.).

An argument can be made, that Venus, was even more physically gifted than Serena (because of her combined height, reach, speed and power), but that only got Venus 7 majors, and inconsistent play throughout her career. See what I mean?

The other thing people try to do is just look at physical/mental/skill assessments; but those don't always translate era's either, though it does work many times (compensating a little for new racquets, training, size growth, etc.). You know, who was the better player; Roger, Rafa or Laver argument?

I mean we can go on and on with this, but I'm not in a position right now, to write in such detail, as the scales and qualifiers we can use right now to accurately assess different players of different era's and their peak performance.

So in a simple line, Serena or Venus may very well of been the most physically gifted female tennis players ever, but it doesn't mean they were the best, had the best careers, combined it with the best skills,had the biggest physical advantage or even played the best peak tennis ever (at one time, one year, or a career).

But I do understand why some would make that argument (especially if Serena would of had 18-22 majors, instead of 13 and counting)?

PS (speaking about physical): Gael Monfis, is probably the most combined physically/skill wise gifted male Tennis Player (he's got all the shots and power, along with that brilliant athleticism, reach and height), maybe ever, but it hasn't translated into him even winning a major. A shame!
What does Venus have to do with any of this?

I don't think the argument is just about Serena's physical gifts, it's the combination of physical gifts, the best serve ever, and one of the strongest wills that make her one of the greatest ever.

And not to downplay the achievement of Graf or Evert, but Serena, Navratilova, Court, and King are the only 4 players to have double digits in both singles and doubles GS and only she and Navratilova have won 4 straight majors in singles and doubles.
Jul 18th, 2011 05:09 PM
Apoleb
Re: Greatest womens tennis player of all time

I voted for Graf just because I had to but I want to ask:

why does anyone care?

What difference would it make if people thought Graf, Navratilova, Evert or Court was the GOAT? They played across very different eras, and it's painfully clear that not one of those was so much ahead of any other in regards to both achievements and influence on the game, especially that each one had a distinctive style with its flaws and advantages. This very fact makes all comparisons very subjective and almost arbitrary cause there are far too many variable factors to account for. And even if it's remotely possible to pick one, it's entirely meaningless. Should we start worshipping at her feet when the poll closes? It's taking the ideal of competition in sports a little far too much.

These are all greats of the game, and they just deserve to be celebrated as such.
Jul 18th, 2011 04:40 PM
Excelscior
Re: Greatest womens tennis player of all time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novichok View Post
Is your argument based on Serena's domination against her peers? I don't understand why numerical records would falsify the thesis that Serena is the "Greatest by ability at physical peak." Graf, Evert, Martina and Serena dominated their peers at their physical peaks but Serena played in an era that was more physical.
This is always the big argument in Sports.

Was Hakeem Olajuwon the greatest Center in NBA history, cause he was the best Center, when the best, biggest, tallest, most athletic Centers played?

Some would ask, was Wilt Chamberlain (or Kareem Abdul Jabbar even) The best Center ever cause they dominated the best/more over their contemporaries than ever before?

Now of course athletes who dominated in the 1960's, generally are not going to be as dominate over their peers in 2011 (or athletes in 2011 against each other). So it gets complicated. We all know this.

I think here, we blended (taken from two different posters), a Peak Play vs Peak Physical play argument, actually. Those are two different arguments.

If it's simple play or domination; then I think Chris, Steffi and Navratilova win that out easy. If it's who was the most physically gifted, than that becomes more complicated.

Do you wanna say Serena, cause she 5'9", 165lb, fast, powerful, etc., then you can. But that doesn't mean she was that much more physically better than her peers, compared to Martina or Graf (though she may of been). But I'm not sure what that even means, cause skill level wise some would argue, it wasn't enough for Serena to dominate the sport the way Chris or Martina did, or even Graf, a relative contemporary of hers (unless we change the scales or judgements). Of course Serena supporters, can make that argument as well, by saying their competition/physicality of the sport was better (though as Chris Williams pointed out the other day; players of the 60-70's had their condition/court requirements that many players today could/maybe not deal with, no like medical time outs, standing between games, no on court trainers, TV time outs, entourages, including massage therapist, nutritionist, etc.).

Shoot. Another argument can be made, that Venus, was even more physically gifted than Serena (because of her combined height, reach, speed and power), but that only got Venus 7 majors, and inconsistent play throughout her career. See what I mean?

The other thing people try to do is just look at physical/mental/skill assessments; but those don't always translate era's either, though it does work many times (compensating a little for new racquets, training, size growth, etc.). You know, who was the better player; Roger, Rafa, Sampras or Laver argument?

I mean we can go on and on with this, but I'm not in a position right now, to write in such detail, as the scales and qualifiers we can use right now to accurately assess different players of different era's and their peak performance.

So in a simple line (addressing your original question), Serena or Venus may very well of been the most physically gifted female tennis players ever, but it doesn't mean they were the best, had the best careers, combined it with the best skills, had the biggest physical advantage or even played the best peak tennis ever (at one time, one year, or a career).

But I do understand why some would make that argument (especially if Serena would of had 18-22 majors, instead of 13 and counting)?

PS (speaking about physical): Gael Monfis, is probably the most combined physically/skill wise gifted male Tennis Player (he's got all the shots and power, along with that brilliant athleticism, reach and height), maybe ever, but it hasn't translated into him even winning a major. A shame!
Jul 18th, 2011 04:28 PM
Chrissie-fan
Re: Greatest womens tennis player of all time

Chris Evert because I know beforehand that she's not going to get as many votes as she deserves. Besides, in my opinion there are seven players on that list that should share the title of GOAT, so I may just as well vote for the one I love the most.
Jul 18th, 2011 04:13 PM
Excelscior
Re: Greatest womens tennis player of all time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olórin View Post
If you aren't able to do the more preliminary research yourself you obviously have little comprehension of how the rankings worked pre computer system but I'll attempt to enlighten your ignorance.

Court ended 7 seasons ranked #1. One less than Graf (1993) and the same as Navratilova . And was seeded #1 in nearly 30 Grand Slams, which again is comparable to 22 Slam Champ Graf with 28 Grand Slams as the #1 seed.
I think my question, was had any one "tabulated it" or worked it out?

I guess you don't really pay attention or read properly. Not surprised. I had already acknowledged the inconsistencies of the system.

Please read and comprehend properly next time, or don't respond or offer any misguided help.

Justine Henin fan had the proper response to me, and did just fine.

So your answer is/was no.

Thank You.
Jul 18th, 2011 04:13 PM
Laura K.Hunt
Re: Greatest womens tennis player of all time

In the future, or if the OP could travel in time like a Terminator and appear outside a internet cafe. Then went inside and made a new/other tennisforum account, and posted the same thread (with a poll), then I would most likely have a lot of votes.
This thread has more than 15 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome