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View Full Version : Since Kim and Juju started winning slams and tournaments...


Dawn Marie
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:22 PM
it seems that alot of people who were bored with seeing Venus (her own person) and Serena (her own person) play in the same matches are now content and okay. They now seem silent with the same ole kim and juju matches. Whereas all hell broke loose when V@S competed in the same matches.

So V@S are from the same family and have similiar traits, so do Kim and Justine.

So why is or WAS everyone so silent when it was the same ole same ole same ole JUJU and KIM in final? JUJU and KIM in final. Same ole same ole JUJU AND KIM in final. JUJU and Kim in final?

SAME OLE SAME OLE JUJU and KIM in final? Sa..me.. well i think u get the picture..

Doraemon
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:25 PM
it seems that alot of people who were bored with seeing Venus (her own person) and Serena (her own person) play in the same matches are now content and okay. They now seem silent with the same ole kim and juju matches. Whereas all hell broke loose when V@S competed in the same matches.

So V@S are from the same family and have similiar traits, so do Kim and Justine.

So why is or WAS everyone so silent when it was the same ole same ole same ole JUJU and KIM in final? JUJU and KIM in final. Same ole same ole JUJU AND KIM in final. JUJU and Kim in final?

SAME OLE SAME OLE JUJU and KIM in final? Sa..me.. well i think u get the picture..

Not again! :o

Juju_fan
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:25 PM
Venus and Serena are Sisters.

Justine and Kim don't see each other when they are off-court.

That's a huge difference between both confrontations!

saki
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:25 PM
Well, I wasn't that keen on Williams/Williams finals, nor am I that keen on Kim/Justine finals... But, to clarify, it's simply not true that "V&S are from the same family and have similar traits, so do Kim and Justine". Setting aside the fact that Kim & Justine are not from the same family, they have very different playing styles. Justine relies principally on her serve and attacking game; Kim on speed and retrieval. I simply don't see much similarity between them, other than their both being from the same country.

The Crow
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:25 PM
I noticced the opposite: the people who were happy with the V@S matches, and those who said that their matches weren't boring at all are the people who say that Justine-Kim matches are boring all the time, that they don't like it blablabla.

:kiss:

saki
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:26 PM
And, another clarification: *Justine* has started to win slams, Kim hasn't.

CapFan#1
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:26 PM
someone has a persecution complex!!!

Dawn Marie
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:30 PM
saki if u saw Serena and Venus walking down the street would you think they were sisters?

Also, I thought most of us wathed tennis because of the sport. Which tells me that something more is at work here .

If one can endure two people from Belguim playing in finals OVER and OVER again, yet can't endure V@S playing in finals OVER and Over again.. then it is more than V@S just playing same styles.

Because Lindsay and Jen both hit hard and won many finals and not a word.

If Lindsay and Jen played in MASS finals I don't think I would here alot of the media in US and other areas state that it is bad for tennis. Just my opinion.. and if you are going to start calling me names or act up, I''ll beat you down. So give me your righ cheeck now so I can upper cut it!! Lmao

Ballbuster
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:33 PM
Those are the anti-williams gang. They'll never confess the truth. It doesn't matter. Next year they'll see so many racquet beatdowns that they'll be silent for eternity.

Doraemon
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:34 PM
Guess the Belgian rivalry is more entertaining for many ppl though they have yet to produce a competitive match on big occasions. They aren't close friends (according to Justine at least) let alone sisters. I think they can easily put aside the fact that they are from the same country and see each other just like they see any other player. On the contrary, the Williams siters are sisters and best friend for each other no matter what! I don't think it's possible for them to see each other an enemy.. Especially Venus seems to be struggling with the fact she's the big sis of Serena and unable to bring out her A game against her lil sis which actually I don't want to change much cuz it's good to see an older sis care about her lil sis and don't wanna c Venus glare at Serena over the net..
Guess the best thing we can expect is some triangle rivarly we had between Steffi, Monica and Gaby in the early 90s.

Dawn Marie
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:34 PM
ALSO I am not actually refering to anyone up in here, so if you feel guilty or something and wish to act up due to that, it is wasted time.


I am only expressing my feelings, mostly to the media people and players like gaby who opened up their mouths.

If you are tired of this topic, then stay out or let it fall, but please LET me express my emotions and feelings on the matter. Even if it may be the 10th topic.

Fyndh0rnElf
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:35 PM
Dawn Marie you are the biggest retard that has ever landed on this board :silly:

EVERYONE IS SICK AND TIRED AND ABOUT TO PUKE about the belgian finals! Most anti-williams(not necessarily haters) have agreed that they'd rather have an all sisters final than choking Clijsters loses yet again to cheater.

Dawn Marie
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:36 PM
The belgian rivarly could be more entertaining, or it could be what people are used to seeing and thus those who spoke up regarding V@S are now content and COMFORTABLE with themselves, if more the ignorant.

Dawn Marie
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:39 PM
Fynd or whatever,I did not LAND on this board. I was HATCHED on this board. I only come in PEACE.

The term retard is not a nice word. I would much rather use MENTALLY CHALLENGED, like what your user name is. What does it mean anyway? Enlighted me will yah.

griffin
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:41 PM
If one can endure two people from Belguim playing in finals OVER and OVER again,


What "over and over"? Two non-consecutive Slam finals, and a handful of lesser finals. We certainly HAVE seen people start to spew shit at them now that they've moved up the rankings, and as Crow so aptly pointed out some of the people who were thrilled by "all V&S all the time" and complained when others said it bored them already HAVE started bitching about the "boring all-Belgian finals" - so I'm sure if they manage to run the tables the way Venus and Serena did, we'll see "not again/boring finals" to the extent we heard it about Venus and Serena.

Dawn Marie
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:44 PM
Griffin me thinks you need glasses. Kim and Juju have played in many finals, and DOMINATED.

Fyndh0rnElf
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:45 PM
Fynd or whatever,I did not LAND on this board. I was HATCHED on this board. I only come in PEACE.

The term retard is not a nice word. I would much rather use MENTALLY CHALLENGED, like what your user name is. What does it mean anyway? Enlighted me will yah.

That was a good response(no sarcasm). You disarmed me with that answer. But I still think you are a retard, not mentally challenged.

Peace :wavey:

Martian Willow
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:45 PM
What "over and over"? Two non-consecutive Slam finals, and a handful of lesser finals. We certainly HAVE seen people start to spew shit at them now that they've moved up the rankings, and as Crow so aptly pointed out some of the people who were thrilled by "all V&S all the time" and complained when others said it bored them already HAVE started bitching about the "boring all-Belgian finals" - so I'm sure if they manage to run the tables the way Venus and Serena did, we'll see "not again/boring finals" to the extent we heard it about Venus and Serena.

...I wanted to say that... :(

griffin
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:46 PM
Dawn, I see quite well, thank you very much. And not just what fits my own argument or the fight I"m trying to start.

You should give it a shot sometime.

Martian Willow
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:47 PM
Griffin me thinks you need glasses. Kim and Juju have played in many finals, and DOMINATED.

...I think you need glasses if you think nobody complained... :)

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:49 PM
The point is still well made though. The all-Belgian slam finals were DOGS of matches,MUCH MUCH worser than any of the all-Williams slam finals this year. Yet NO ONE of the commentators said ANYTHING about the quality of the match.....and then it becomes clear to me that people are just plain hating the sisters. Because if they say OZ and Wimbledon were bad, and then turn-around and say how classic the French and U.S. open finals were?!

Man, man!!

Dawn Marie
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:53 PM
griffin

I am not starting any fight.

Acting OBNOXIOUS and stating a topic that has been used over and over.. YES.

Appeasing my boredom.. YES.

I wish no fighting. I come in peace.:)

SJW
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:54 PM
the Williams finals are not as bad as people wish them to be.

on the other hand, the Belgian matches which i've watched have all been Kim wins. so i liked them.

Linzi
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:56 PM
so u didnt watch rg or us open?

The Crow
Nov 24th, 2003, 05:57 PM
The point is still well made though. The all-Belgian slam finals were DOGS of matches,MUCH MUCH worser than any of the all-Williams slam finals this year. Yet NO ONE of the commentators said ANYTHING about the quality of the match.....and then it becomes clear to me that people are just plain hating the sisters. Because if they say OZ and Wimbledon were bad, and then turn-around and say how classic the French and U.S. open finals were?!

Man, man!!

It's not because you put NO ONE in capitals that makes what you say true :rolleyes: Go and search for some threads after the Roland Garros finals. You will have the same arguments about that match as about some of the Williams matches. Only most of the pro's and con's switched places ;)

And about the Williams matches being boring, or too dominating ot whatever, was more of a discussion last year and not this year. This year their matches were much more entertaining than last year. Only, I'd want Venus to kick Serena's butt for a change :mad: ;)

SJW
Nov 24th, 2003, 06:01 PM
so u didnt watch rg or us open?

i taped RG while i revised for an exam.......my mate text me the result ( :mad: ) so i didn't bother watching it.

i taped the USO cuz i was tired as hell and had to get up early that morning (it was on in the early hours)....checked teletext for the result, and never got around to watching that either.

Mrs. Peel
Nov 24th, 2003, 06:05 PM
i taped RG while i revised for an exam.......my mate text me the result ( :mad: ) so i didn't bother watching it.

i taped the USO cuz i was tired as hell and had to get up early that morning (it was on in the early hours)....checked teletext for the result, and never got around to watching that either.


Be glad that you didn't because they SUCKED beyond belief....

Linzi
Nov 24th, 2003, 06:13 PM
Be glad that you didn't because they SUCKED beyond belief....
Yep, u got lucky. I stayed up to watch the US open final then decided i was never gonna put myself out for a match between them again!

nygirl
Nov 24th, 2003, 06:25 PM
it seems that alot of people who were bored with seeing Venus (her own person) and Serena (her own person) play in the same matches are now content and okay. They now seem silent with the same ole kim and juju matches. Whereas all hell broke loose when V@S competed in the same matches.

So V@S are from the same family and have similiar traits, so do Kim and Justine.

So why is or WAS everyone so silent when it was the same ole same ole same ole JUJU and KIM in final? JUJU and KIM in final. Same ole same ole JUJU AND KIM in final. JUJU and Kim in final?

SAME OLE SAME OLE JUJU and KIM in final? Sa..me.. well i think u get the picture..


Why don't you just come out and say straight out that it's racism 'cause that's what you want to imply here right?? :rolleyes:

I'm a Justine fan AND a Venus fan and I hated the all Belgian finals as much as I hated the all Williams finals. They both sucked period. Although on a sidenote, the Belgian finals only sucked in the majors, I've seen some very good tennis from Kim and Juju in other tourneys.

That said, if I have to chose between an all Belgian final or an all Williams one I'd go with the Belgians because there I know it's a rivalry like any other. Kim and Juju are no sisters, probably not even friends.

Although I would like Venus to win all her tourneys I don't care if she looses against her sister because after all is said and done that trofee will go home to the Williams residence.

The situation between the Belgians and the Williams is simply very different. The first is a rivalry, the second is as far from that as you can get. There is just no rivalry between V and S.

jenny161185
Nov 24th, 2003, 06:26 PM
I think its because sometimes the sisters look like they don't want to be playing each other and are both happy after the match . People like the fact kim and Juju like playing each other and aren t exactly great friends . Though the last two all williams finals have been good quality - I loved oz open 03 though Venus threw it away :(

ans
Nov 24th, 2003, 06:27 PM
"They now seem silent with the same ole kim and juju matches. Whereas all hell broke loose when V@S competed in the same matches."

You must realise you're mistaken about no people complaining about the kim-justine finals when you have a look at the last three posts of SJW, Mrs peel and Linzi.

SJW
Nov 24th, 2003, 06:35 PM
"They now seem silent with the same ole kim and juju matches. Whereas all hell broke loose when V@S competed in the same matches."

You must realise you're mistaken about no people complaining about the kim-justine finals when you have a look at the last three posts of SJW, Mrs peel and Linzi.

oh contraire my friend

i said i enjoyed which Belgian matches i've seen.

please read before you involve my name :)

harloo
Nov 24th, 2003, 06:43 PM
It's strange because when the Williams were in those slam finals and big tournaments getting to the finals, the board was lit up like a Christmas tree about how the sisters matches are boring. etc.
The commentators and tennis analyst had their negative comments about all the sister finals were bad for the game.

I will be the first to admitt that Venus and Serena in the finals were not great quality matches, and if people criticized them then they had that right. Me as a fan cannot deny the fact that the matches did not live up too final quality, but posters on here who felt that way should be consistent regardless of who it is.

Kart
Nov 24th, 2003, 06:51 PM
Not all of us are more content.

I'm not a great fan of all Belgian finals or all Williams sisters finals but I still watch them.

Both match-ups still have the potential to produce great tennis but I think the Belgians will soon come up with it more regularly than the sisters because they enter more tournaments together and play more often. Also, there's less love between them which probably makes them like losing less and drives them more.

Venus and Serena have only just this year started showing what they can produce between them IMHO because they meet so rarely - otherwise some of those slam finals last year could have been a lot closer.

Still, I'd prefer a Belgian - Williams sister final anyday.

SJW
Nov 24th, 2003, 06:56 PM
well i love 3 out of the 4 so as long as 2 of them are in the final, i'm ecstatic.

i hope to see a Kim-Williams final.....we haven't seen that yet.

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 06:56 PM
But the Belgians have no excuse for their poor play at the slams. The williamses are sisters, but the Belgians?! And the Williamses have been improving drastically lately. The Belgians only got worse.

Ballbuster
Nov 24th, 2003, 06:58 PM
I don't enjoying watching anything with the Belgiums in it. Unless Kimmie is winning. I cannot stand Ju Ju, for her deceptive practices.

Linzi
Nov 24th, 2003, 06:59 PM
But the Belgians have no excuse for their poor play at the slams. The williamses are sisters, but the Belgians?! And the Williamses have been improving drastically lately. The Belgians only got worse.
Thats so wrong. There is nothing wrong with Justine's play at the slams. It really isnt her fault Kim doesnt turn up is it?

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:03 PM
See! You got my point! When the Williams play, they donīt say: Serena couldnīt keep the ball in play or Venus didnīt bring her intencity. No they say: the WILLIAMSES played bad.

Thus it is the same with the Belgians.

Venus Forever
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:04 PM
Thats so wrong. There is nothing wrong with Justine's play at the slams. It really isnt her fault Kim doesnt turn up is it?

Well, can't we say that it's not Serena's fault that Venus didn't bring it??

Afterall, Serena was the one who was on, hitting more winners, along with a lot of errors from Venus.

Linzi
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:05 PM
Again wrong...At Wimbeldon 03 both played weird tennis, it wasnt one more than the other they both did.

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:07 PM
Linzi, linzi.....then you always will see what you wanna see.

SJW
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:10 PM
to be honest, Wimbledon was a weird situation

Venus was injured, way too injured to even think of playing, but she did so to give the fans a match, and shut the media (although the British media from all the articles i've seen, and there have been a LOT, are always nice about the sisters) and the haters up.

for Serena to know she had to go and beat her sister off the court, even though she KNEW how bad she was hurting, musta been heartbreaking.

so given the circumstances, i was sooooooooooooo happy with the match they played.

space
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:12 PM
The point is still well made though. The all-Belgian slam finals were DOGS of matches,MUCH MUCH worser than any of the all-Williams slam finals this year. Yet NO ONE of the commentators said ANYTHING about the quality of the match.....and then it becomes clear to me that people are just plain hating the sisters. Because if they say OZ and Wimbledon were bad, and then turn-around and say how classic the French and U.S. open finals were?!

Man, man!!


Great post bandabou. The commentators did not say one word. Did you hear stinking mary carrillo commentating at Wimbledon when the sisters played. She talked about them like dogs her commentary was awful. She was trying to say in so many words that the match was fixed when Vee won the first set. I have that lesbo bitch.

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:13 PM
Exactly SJW, but Linzi wonīt see that.

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:15 PM
Great post bandabou. The commentators did not say one word. Did you hear stinking mary carrillo commentating at Wimbledon when the sisters played. She talked about them like dogs her commentary was awful. She was trying to say in so many words that the match was fixed when Vee won the first set. I have that lesbo bitch.

say no more, say no more! An INJURED Venus comes out and play against doctors advice, and they get all the crap over them.

And to what cost?! Venus hasnīt been to play since and even dropped out of the top 10. Now they wanna make fun, saying that Venus is done and this and that.

Venus Forever
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:17 PM
Again wrong...At Wimbeldon 03 both played weird tennis, it wasnt one more than the other they both did.

They both played bad because of a strange situation, an injury.

They both knew that Venus was hurt, even too hurt to play. Many players even suggest that it is even sometimes harder to focus on a match when you know your opponent has an injury, which happened to be the case here.

This is a situation that RARELY happens, especially knowing your opponent has an injury before going into the match.

Not to mention that they are sisters and Serena doesn't want to see Venus hurt like she is hurting. The injury was more on Serena's mind then her own game.

Linzi
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:19 PM
I aint listening to no commentary, it wasnt about that. It was about what i SAW. The Australian OPen match was a quality match, i thought there were some great rallies. There was nothing quality about Wimbeldon, remember a smash i think Serena had and she just hit it tamely back over the net. I aint a Williams hater, in fact i quite like Venus, but u cant tell me that was a good match to watch. And pls note i said the Belgian matches were awful as well.

space
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:20 PM
Why don't you just come out and say straight out that it's racism 'cause that's what you want to imply here right?? :rolleyes:

I'm a Justine fan AND a Venus fan and I hated the all Belgian finals as much as I hated the all Williams finals. They both sucked period. Although on a sidenote, the Belgian finals only sucked in the majors, I've seen some very good tennis from Kim and Juju in other tourneys.

That said, if I have to chose between an all Belgian final or an all Williams one I'd go with the Belgians because there I know it's a rivalry like any other. Kim and Juju are no sisters, probably not even friends.

Although I would like Venus to win all her tourneys I don't care if she looses against her sister because after all is said and done that trofee will go home to the Williams residence.

The situation between the Belgians and the Williams is simply very different. The first is a rivalry, the second is as far from that as you can get. There is just no rivalry between V and S.


And they are not going to get a rivalry between the sisters. They will not kill each over a trophy because they love each other too much at the end of the day they will remain sisters and best friends no trophy is going to come between them. The commentators would love to see them going at each other throat on the court so that they could turn around and talk about them like dogs but the sisters are not having that.
It's even going to be worse when they meet again and because of the lost of their sister they will say to amongst each other live is too short and we will not go out there and try to kill each other.

Knizzle
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:21 PM
The sisters didn't play bad at Wimbledon 2003. Serena played badly for the first 3 games of the first set, but their winner/error ratio was just -5. Serena had one more winner than error. Venus was -6. If had not been for the injury, it would probably have been a classic match. There were some great points and shotmaking otherwise.

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:24 PM
Exactly....the injury blew everything. Because Venus was clearly intend to showing that she was back, but then got injured. And that clearly affected serenaīs play mentally.

space
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:27 PM
I don't enjoying watching anything with the Belgiums in it. Unless Kimmie is winning. I cannot stand Ju Ju, for her deceptive practices.


I hear ya. I second that.

space
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:30 PM
to be honest, Wimbledon was a weird situation

Venus was injured, way too injured to even think of playing, but she did so to give the fans a match, and shut the media (although the British media from all the articles i've seen, and there have been a LOT, are always nice about the sisters) and the haters up.

for Serena to know she had to go and beat her sister off the court, even though she KNEW how bad she was hurting, musta been heartbreaking.

so given the circumstances, i was sooooooooooooo happy with the match they played.

Up to this day I cannot watch that match. When I try to watch it I cry for Venus because she was in such pain and she still went out there and fought her way through it. What a champion.

Martian Willow
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:34 PM
Linzi, linzi.....then you always will see what you wanna see.

...this is hilarious...although somewhat frightening...coming from you... :)

SJW
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:36 PM
Up to this day I cannot watch that match. When I try to watch it I cry for Venus because she was in such pain and she still went out there and fought her way through it. What a champion.

i turned on the tv and heard "bad news.......Venus Williams showed up to practice with strapping from her hip to her thigh and only had a light practice". and that fucking Sue Barker kept repeating it. so like i was nervous as hell, and i was soooo happy she confirmed she would step out onto court. then i thought actually i didn't want her to cuz she'll hurt herself even more.

i was so happy with her determination and fighting spirit, i thought the media would be too. then i heard what Carillo and the American media was like.....i seriously seriously believe they just can't win.

nygirl
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:37 PM
And they are not going to get a rivalry between the sisters. They will not kill each over a trophy because they love each other too much at the end of the day they will remain sisters and best friends no trophy is going to come between them. The commentators would love to see them going at each other throat on the court so that they could turn around and talk about them like dogs but the sisters are not having that.
It's even going to be worse when they meet again and because of the lost of their sister they will say to amongst each other live is too short and we will not go out there and try to kill each other.


That was my point :rolleyes: There is no rivalry between the sisters and there probably never will be. Mostly because of Venus's reluctance to take it to Serena. As you said, at the end of the day they're sisters and love each other, especially for Venus that's much more important then winning a trofee. Why are people then surprised when the fans complain about their matches not being competitive, it's the truth.

Kim and Juju are not sisters and the fact that their two (yes count them, only two) finals sucked had nothing to do with being friends or whatever but just with Kim's horrible mindset. At this stage she just crumbles in the big ones. Once she does something about her choking it will be a very good rivalry imo.

space
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:39 PM
say no more, say no more! An INJURED Venus comes out and play against doctors advice, and they get all the crap over them.

And to what cost?! Venus hasnīt been to play since and even dropped out of the top 10. Now they wanna make fun, saying that Venus is done and this and that.

Could you imagine if Venus had not played in that final a Wimbledon? I would have to see this board and hear the commentators and read all the news papers. At least I do not think the British people would have booed them but it would be another IW without the booing.

Martian Willow
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:40 PM
...I doubt you'd hear a Williams (they are their own people, btw) fan complaining about the quality if Kim played like shit in a GS final against Serena or Venus... :)

space
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:44 PM
i turned on the tv and heard "bad news.......Venus Williams showed up to practice with strapping from her hip to her thigh and only had a light practice". and that fucking Sue Barker kept repeating it. so like i was nervous as hell, and i was soooo happy she confirmed she would step out onto court. then i thought actually i didn't want her to cuz she'll hurt herself even more.

i was so happy with her determination and fighting spirit, i thought the media would be too. then i heard what Carillo and the American media was like.....i seriously seriously believe they just can't win.


Bingo. The damn if they do and damn if they don't. But you know what all of that will change next year. After they see how bad all the tournaments and the US open and how everyone missed the sisters they better be tamed with their lousy commentary. They will be kissing the ground when the sisters return.

SJW
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:45 PM
...I doubt you'd hear a Williams (they are their own people, btw) fan complaining about the quality if Kim played like shit in a GS final against Serena or Venus... :)

hmmmmm most, no.

me, hell yes

space
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:48 PM
That was my point :rolleyes: There is no rivalry between the sisters and there probably never will be. Mostly because of Venus's reluctance to take it to Serena. As you said, at the end of the day they're sisters and love each other, especially for Venus that's much more important then winning a trofee. Why are people then surprised when the fans complain about their matches not being competitive, it's the truth.

Kim and Juju are not sisters and the fact that their two (yes count them, only two) finals sucked had nothing to do with being friends or whatever but just with Kim's horrible mindset. At this stage she just crumbles in the big ones. Once she does something about her choking it will be a very good rivalry imo.


Yea, people are talking like kim and justine went to all of these GS finals it was only two. How many were V&S in was it six. Please, there's no comparison. kim and justine got lucky.

SJW
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:49 PM
Could you imagine if Venus had not played in that final a Wimbledon? I would have to see this board and hear the commentators and read all the news papers. At least I do not think the British people would have booed them but it would be another IW without the booing.

hmmmmm that would be interesting. if she pulled out before i don't know, but it's highly unlikely they would have booed them. after all, Wimbledon is a place where tennis spectators remain classy (even if they're a bit dead when Tim isn't playing).

if she pulled out during, they probably would have been sympathetic. i mean you heard how the fans were getting behind her (underdog theory always applies here).

but i hate to think if they were playing in Antwerp or some American tournaments and pulled out. the reaction would have been brutal

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:50 PM
Willow: bad is bad. No matter who was playing or not.

Then the question is: Why when two loving sisters sometimes fail to bring it up when playing each other it is less understandable, then when two (not even SO) friends play each other but they donīt bring it up either?!

Sisters are understandable, but ( not even so) friends?! :scratch:

Brαm
Nov 24th, 2003, 07:55 PM
Yea, people are talking like kim and justine went to all of these GS finals it was only two. How many were V&S in was it six. Please, there's no comparison. kim and justine got lucky.

:lol: :lol:

Fyndh0rnElf
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:06 PM
Exactly....the injury blew everything. Because Venus was clearly intend to showing that she was back, but then got injured. And that clearly affected serenaīs play mentally.

I'm sorry and I don't mean to attack the sisters, but I couldn't help feeling Serena gave Venus that first set, because she felt sorry for her. Some of her misshits were just too abnormal to look like unintentional errors. But I guess Kim also lost her concentration in the semis when playing against an injured opponent, so it may have happen to Serena too. I'll never know but it was weird

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:11 PM
Hmm, at first Serena started slowly, because she didnīt want to emberass Venus...but she clearly didnīt expect Venus to come-out playing like that.

Brαm
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:12 PM
Hmm, at first Serena started slowly, because she didnīt want to emberass Venus


She told you that, right?

space
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:15 PM
I'm sorry and I don't mean to attack the sisters, but I couldn't help feeling Serena gave Venus that first set, because she felt sorry for her. Some of her misshits were just too abnormal to look like unintentional errors. But I guess Kim also lost her concentration in the semis when playing against an injured opponent, so it may have happen to Serena too. I'll never know but it was weird


Kim did not lose concentration she just got beat. Even she said Vee was serving 118miles and she could not do anything. All kim does is retrieve balls. she's the golden retriever of tennis.

Brαm
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:15 PM
Kim did not lose concentration she just got beat. Even she said Vee was serving 118miles and she could not do anything. All kim does is retrieve balls. she's the golden retriever of tennis.
Venus is as defensive as Kim I think.

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:17 PM
No Brammy, but if it was my brother...Iīd have done the same thing. I wouldnīt have played full trottle.

Brαm
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:19 PM
No Brammy, but if it was my brother...Iīd have done the same thing. I wouldnīt have played full trottle.
Professional tennis players shouldn't give away games to their siblings!

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:25 PM
Venus is as defensive as Kim I think.

Venus isnīt defensive, she is more PATIENT. Thereīs not going for the winner right-away and then thereīs SCRAMBLING.

Scrambling is what Kim does.

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:28 PM
Professional tennis players shouldn't give away games to their siblings!

of course.....but it plays in your mind.

space
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:28 PM
Venus is as defensive as Kim I think.


Both V&S have both defense and offense Kim just have defensive, to be great you should possess both that is why it is so difficult for Kim to win a Slam.

SJW
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:30 PM
Professional tennis players shouldn't give away games to their siblings!

hmmmmmmmm

and professional players shouldn't FEEL right?

professional players should play to kill, regardless if it means killing (in tennis terms) the person they love most while they are hurting right?

professional players shouldn't notice the grimace each overhead, serve, and long point their opponenet has on their face right?

professional players shouldn't be worried by the media and fans talking bs about them, right?

just out of interest, how do you know what professional players are meant to do in those circumstances? :scratch:

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:33 PM
Kim is defensive in the way that she is rarely dictating play. Venus is defensive because she has great defense, but most of the time she is dictating play.

Fyndh0rnElf
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:34 PM
Kim did not lose concentration she just got beat. Even she said Vee was serving 118miles and she could not do anything. All kim does is retrieve balls. she's the golden retriever of tennis.

Kim says her opponent was magnificent every time she loses, even when she chokes. She's so incredibly annoying. She needs to say what's on her mind like that time she said Henin was the ultimate time out manipulator

shap_half
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:38 PM
I don't care either way. As long as Justine is in the final I'm liking the match already. ;)

Fyndh0rnElf
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:40 PM
Kim is defensive in the way that she is rarely dictating play. Venus is defensive because she has great defense, but most of the time she is dictating play.

Kim turns points around against a dictator like Venus or Serena, but she dictates against everyone else even Davenport. Dokic defeated her in Zurich after trying to rally her(and losing 1-6) because Kim has an edge when points get longer. That's why she shortened up the points and there was no Kim anymore

Venus however doesn't turn points around. She just gets to every ball because she's everywhere, and attacks. There's no defense, there's 1put yourself on the move 2get the ball 3wave bye bye to Kimmie :haha:

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:40 PM
Yep....gotta have a bit arrogance, otherwise you wonīt become a champion. You have to feel YOU are the best.

shap_half
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:47 PM
Exactly. You have to believe that you are better than your opponent otherwise you will be playing to prevent yourself from losing - that is not the mindset you should have against anyone.

Seenus
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:49 PM
I predict that Justine will not beat Kim in 2004.

Brαm
Nov 24th, 2003, 08:54 PM
hmmmmmmmm

and professional players shouldn't FEEL right?

professional players should play to kill, regardless if it means killing (in tennis terms) the person they love most while they are hurting right?

professional players shouldn't notice the grimace each overhead, serve, and long point their opponenet has on their face right?

professional players shouldn't be worried by the media and fans talking bs about them, right?

just out of interest, how do you know what professional players are meant to do in those circumstances? :scratch:
Did I say all those things? I thought I hadn't!

bandabou said that Serena gave some games to Venus. Giving games during a professional tennis match doesn't seem the right thing to do, does it?

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 09:01 PM
I didnīt say give....I said Serena didnīt come with the same passion as she usually does. It wasnīt till Serena nearly got down 4-0 that she started to play with passion. Witnessing her reaction after the passing that saved the third bp.

Martian Willow
Nov 24th, 2003, 10:04 PM
Willow: bad is bad. No matter who was playing or not.

Then the question is: Why when two loving sisters sometimes fail to bring it up when playing each other it is less understandable, then when two (not even SO) friends play each other but they donīt bring it up either?!

Sisters are understandable, but ( not even so) friends?! :scratch:

...who said it wasn't understandable...?...of course it's understandable...Kim playing crap is less understandable...but that has nothing to do with the fact people would rather see a competitive match... :)

WinningRecord
Nov 24th, 2003, 10:11 PM
Are people forgetting the fact that Kim and Justine have had a few controversial three-set thrillers this year, including one where match-points were saved? And I believe they are 4 wins and 4 losses against each other this year. And they have different playing styles. They have proven they can play good matches against each other, a real rivalry. Venus and Serena have yet to prove that.

Kim and Justine just have yet to play well against each other in a GS final but they certainly have given us reason to believe they can play well in a GS final, unlike V&S.

mboyle
Nov 24th, 2003, 10:11 PM
"AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH IT MUST BE RACISM!!!!!!!!!!!! EVERY BAD THING THAT HAPPENS TO ME OR THOSE I LIKE IS CAUSED BY RACISM!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALL YOU DARNED WHITE PEOPLE ARE SO RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

-Dawn Marie

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 10:21 PM
Are people forgetting the fact that Kim and Justine have had a few controversial three-set thrillers this year, including one where match-points were saved? And I believe they are 4 wins and 4 losses against each other this year. And they have different playing styles. They have proven they can play good matches against each other, a real rivalry. Venus and Serena have yet to prove that.

Kim and Justine just have yet to play well against each other in a GS final but they certainly have given us reason to believe they can play well in a GS final, unlike V&S.

Really?! Thatīs DELUDING yourself! ī03 Oz open final was better than all the all-Belgian matches, save perhaps Berlin and Filderstadt......but we are talking GRAND SLAM here and there the Belgians have NOT given any indication they can play well.

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 10:22 PM
...who said it wasn't understandable...?...of course it's understandable...Kim playing crap is less understandable...but that has nothing to do with the fact people would rather see a competitive match... :)

6-4 6-0 and 7-5 6-1 is more competitive than 7-6 3-6 6-4 and 4-6 6-4 6-2?! Hmm....interesting.

Kiswana
Nov 24th, 2003, 10:25 PM
it seems that alot of people who were bored with seeing Venus (her own person) and Serena (her own person) play in the same matches are now content and okay. They now seem silent with the same ole kim and juju matches. Whereas all hell broke loose when V@S competed in the same matches.

So V@S are from the same family and have similiar traits, so do Kim and Justine.

So why is or WAS everyone so silent when it was the same ole same ole same ole JUJU and KIM in final? JUJU and KIM in final. Same ole same ole JUJU AND KIM in final. JUJU and Kim in final?

SAME OLE SAME OLE JUJU and KIM in final? Sa..me.. well i think u get the picture..

I see your point but even with Venus and Serena being my favourites I do realise and accept that their matches are a bit lackluster, for the most part. I do understand the difficulty they face in being sisters who have to compete against each other. People are entitled to criticise them for their less than enthralling matches (they've actually gotten better in the past year). I wish they were more understanding about the sibling factor but I see their perspective as well. Anyway, I don't really focus on what their detractors think about them anymore. They've accomplished too much and no one can take that away from them, though bitter people will try to diminish their accomplishments and to this day continue to do so.

Venus Forever
Nov 24th, 2003, 10:26 PM
Are people forgetting the fact that Kim and Justine have had a few controversial three-set thrillers this year, including one where match-points were saved? And I believe they are 4 wins and 4 losses against each other this year. And they have different playing styles. They have proven they can play good matches against each other, a real rivalry. Venus and Serena have yet to prove that.

Kim and Justine just have yet to play well against each other in a GS final but they certainly have given us reason to believe they can play well in a GS final, unlike V&S.

Are people forgetting the fact that Venus and Serena have had a few controversial three-set thrillers this year, in fact, their only two meetings this year were three sets.

Face it people, Williams matches are just as bad as the Belgian matches. And don't give me that BS about different playing styles, becauses errors are errors, no matter which way you look at it. Oh, but what about the Acura final?? Well, I saw the match, all Kim first set along with Justine errors, followed by all Justine and Kim errors in the last two sets. Nothing spectacular at all, not to mention the slam meetings, along with Sydney, Antwerp, and the Ordina Open. The other three set matches, I haven't seen, so, I won't comment.

The All-Williams finals last year were definitely better then either the US Open final, or the Roland Garros final. Maybe not better quality, as they were all dreadful (minus 2002 Wimbledon), but it definitely had more drama, something lacking in any of the Belgian meetings.

It's just as bad, but of course, Williams haters will find an excuse somewhere. (ex- more variety :tape: )

Fyndh0rnElf
Nov 24th, 2003, 10:27 PM
"AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH IT MUST BE RACISM!!!!!!!!!!!! EVERY BAD THING THAT HAPPENS TO ME OR THOSE I LIKE IS CAUSED BY RACISM!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALL YOU DARNED WHITE PEOPLE ARE SO RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

-Dawn Marie

:haha: priceless

Martian Willow
Nov 24th, 2003, 10:28 PM
...stop being a fuckwit bandabou, nobody said the Belgian GS finals were more any more competitive than the Williams finals...and I notice you accused 'the Belgians' of playing badly in GS finals for the second time in this thread... :rolleyes:

WinningRecord
Nov 24th, 2003, 10:41 PM
There have been great Belgian matches. There have been no great Williams matches. Their two best matches, which came this year, were hideous.

And that Acura final was spectacular, especially tht third set. It was just winner after winner after long rally after winner.

bandabou
Nov 24th, 2003, 11:01 PM
Anybody can play at tier II....but it is at the GSīs that one should be playing great and if people say the sisters havenīt, then CERTAINLY the Belgians-finals havenīt been.

Itīs either BOTH or NONE. simple.

Fingon
Nov 25th, 2003, 05:11 AM
I can't talk for others but in my case, yes, I find Venus and Serena matches very boring because it's all hard hitting.

Yes I find Justine's matches very entertaining and I don't care if people says she is a power player, she isn't IMO and that's all what counts when I decide what to see and what not to see :cool:

BTW, I don't like watching Lindsay, Jennifer or Mary, unless they play someone I like, and I too watch Venus or Serena if they play someone I like.

I do admit that the grand slam finals between Kim and Justine have been bad, but I am allowed to be biased since my favourite was in them and she actually won both. I can understand that Williams fans (fans of one or both sisters) enjoy their finals, and I don't pretend that my taste in tennis styles is the best or the right one, it's just what it is, to each his own.

I really don't understand what the problem is. If Williams fans enjoy Venus and Serena finals and others don't, what's the problem? keep enjoying them. I enjoy Justine's matches and I couldn't care less if other people find them boring. I find them exciting and again, that's all that counts for me.

It really is a matter of taste, not bad or good taste, just personal preferences. I don't doubt that some people may not like to watch Venus and Serena because they are black, well, that's up to them, it's not my case, I consider Venus and Serena in the same league as Lindsay, Mary or Jennifer and I like or dislike their games as much.

What is really an issue in Venus and Serena matches is that their sisters, they don't hate each other, they find it hard to compete against each other, I know it's natural, being otherwise would be wrong, they are first sisters and then tennis players, and It's very comendable they care for each other so much, but you know what? if I want to watch a loving family I watch a soap, when I watch tennis I want to watch tennis and if the match is bad, I don't care it's because they love each other and I don't feel rejoiced by their mutual love, I don't care about the players' personal lives (including Justine), just their games and what they do on court.

Fingon
Nov 25th, 2003, 05:49 AM
Anybody can play at tier II....but it is at the GSīs that one should be playing great and if people say the sisters havenīt, then CERTAINLY the Belgians-finals havenīt been.

Itīs either BOTH or NONE. simple.

since when there are rules about what people can like or dislike?

If I don't like Venus and Serena finals then I can't like Kim and Justine finals and if I like the all Belgian finals I must like all Williams finals, my personal preferences be damned :rolleyes:

certainly I will never, ever accept other people telling me what I should like and what I should not, if other people find me racist, biased, hypocrite or whatever, too bad. I will not like, I will not even say I like something just to make other people happy.

Let me ask you a question, I assume you are a straight male, if you like a woman A, who has two arms, two legs, two eyes, etc. do you feel obliged to also like woman B? is it fair to say that you either like woman A AND B or you like neither?

We might like someone or something for no specific reason, we might like one person and dislike another, that's normal.

If I was a commentator and I had to judge the quality of all Williams finals I would say they have been bad, all Belgian finals have also been bad, but since I am not being paid for given an objective assessment, I only judge them as a fan and I like the Belgian finals and not the Williams finals, as simple as that.

BTW, I hate being politically correct, I call it hypocrissy.

jenn
Nov 25th, 2003, 05:57 AM
3 pages of this? Geez I thought the answer was quite simple.

WE ARE ALL BONAFIDE RASCISTS

WE HATE THE WILLIAMS SISTERS BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK

WE LOVE THE BELGIANS BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE

THAT'S THE ANSWER YOU WERE LOOKING FOR ISN'T IT DAWN?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Martian KC
Nov 25th, 2003, 06:04 AM
Justine and clijsters have 2 different styles of play. MUCH MORE INTERESTING!

Martian KC
Nov 25th, 2003, 06:08 AM
3 pages of this? Geez I thought the answer was quite simple.

WE ARE ALL BONAFIDE RASCISTS

WE HATE THE WILLIAMS SISTERS BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK

WE LOVE THE BELGIANS BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE

THAT'S THE ANSWER YOU WERE LOOKING FOR ISN'T IT DAWN?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:haha: Feed them what they wanna hear!:lol:

Venus Forever
Nov 25th, 2003, 06:32 AM
Justine and clijsters have 2 different styles of play. MUCH MORE INTERESTING!

:worship:

Yes, they hit the ball hard, are great on defense, have great serves...

Oh wait, that's the same as the Williams.

:scratch:

Martian KC
Nov 25th, 2003, 06:39 AM
:worship:

Yes, they hit the ball hard, are great on defense, have great serves...

Oh wait, that's the same as the Williams.

:scratch:

I'm sorry, does one of them have a one-handed backhand? Does one of them use slices effectively? Does one of them use variety to win matches?

Maybe I should detract my first post and rewrite that it's more Justine that has the different style. :rolleyes:

Venus Forever
Nov 25th, 2003, 06:42 AM
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize a one handed backhand was considered variety, as she still hits that shot as the double-handed back handers do. And silly of me to not realize that neither the Williams nor Clijsters have ever used a one handed slice backhand.

I'm sorry, it totally qualifies as variety, especially when she hits it 90% of the time with topspin.

Once again, :worship: . :)

Knizzle
Nov 25th, 2003, 06:44 AM
Venus forever it's no use. This thread should be locked too because this topic has been exhausted. Anti-WS fans will never admit that they apply a double standard and buy into the hype the media creates around the sisters matches.

gentenaire
Nov 25th, 2003, 07:16 AM
Wow, here's a shocker! Kim and Justine fans preferring Kim-Justine finals over all Williams finals! Is nothing sacred in this world?

Martian KC
Nov 25th, 2003, 07:55 AM
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize a one handed backhand was considered variety, as she still hits that shot as the double-handed back handers do. And silly of me to not realize that neither the Williams nor Clijsters have ever used a one handed slice backhand.

I'm sorry, it totally qualifies as variety, especially when she hits it 90% of the time with topspin.

Once again, :worship: . :)

I'm sorry, but we're talking about the matchup of Justine vs Kim. Two different styles of play. Maybe you should carefully examine a match of there's or watch tennis in general and you'll get the gest of it. :)

moby
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:08 AM
you should watch the filderstadt final, great match minus the last 3 games...

The Crow
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:01 AM
Fignon, your post doesn't belong in this thread. You actually made sense :eek: :eek:

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:16 AM
*Waiting for some slam finals featuring, hmmmmm, let's say Amelie Mauresmo and Mary Pierce.*

The Crow
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:45 AM
*Waiting for some slam finals featuring, hmmmmm, let's say Amelie Mauresmo and Mary Pierce.*

That'll be a long wait :p

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:48 AM
*sigh*

gentenaire
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:54 AM
Unless the French decide to allow only French players to play Roland Garros.

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:58 AM
If it was Roland Garros, Amelie would still find a way to get eliminated well before the final. :(

griffin
Nov 25th, 2003, 02:11 PM
If it was Roland Garros, Amelie would still find a way to get eliminated well before the final. :(

Oh hush, some of us are still trying to bask in the glow of Fed Cup :fiery:

;)

Anybody have a good cranberry sauce recipe? I've made the same one for the past few Thanksgivings and wanted to try something a little different.

Venus Forever
Nov 25th, 2003, 03:41 PM
I'm sorry, but we're talking about the matchup of Justine vs Kim. Two different styles of play. Maybe you should carefully examine a match of there's or watch tennis in general and you'll get the gest of it. :)

I know, you're so right.

One hits hard, and, oh wait, the other hits hard too.

Maybe it's defense, no wait, it can't be. Justine and Kim both play great defense and use an effective one handed slice backhand.

Serve?? Hmm, both very hard and fast.

Dropshot?? Can't be that, only see maybe one a match.

Lob?? Rarely see any of them.

Hmmm... the only difference I see is that one lies, and the other is very honest, besides the fact that one hits with one hand and the other with two, although they hit that shot the exact same way as each other.

Is that it?? The liar vs. the honest??

I think we have a winner!! :bounce:

The Crow
Nov 25th, 2003, 03:47 PM
I know, you're so right.

One hits hard, and, oh wait, the other hits hard too.

Maybe it's defense, no wait, it can't be. Justine and Kim both play great defense and use an effective one handed slice backhand.

Serve?? Hmm, both very hard and fast.

Dropshot?? Can't be that, only see maybe one a match.

Lob?? Rarely see any of them.

Hmmm... the only difference I see is that one lies, and the other is very honest, besides the fact that one hits with one hand and the other with two, although they hit that shot the exact same way as each other.

Is that it?? The liar vs. the honest??

I think we have a winner!! :bounce:

Wow, you have a "black or white" vision on the world! :eek:

pigam
Nov 25th, 2003, 04:03 PM
Venus forever it's no use. This thread should be locked too because this topic has been exhausted. Anti-WS fans will never admit that they apply a double standard and buy into the hype the media creates around the sisters matches.
Can't you at least admit (like some other fans do) that there is a double standard vis ā vis the belgian finals, coming from 'WS fans' ?! You can NOT say al the matches Kim and Justine play are boring and you Can NOT say Justine has the same style as ex. Serena. That's what makes it interesting.
And please. (nothing personal knizzle). Let's not make this into a BelgianS-WilliamS thing. Cuz they are 4 different persons !!! Let's just hope there will be some belgian-Williams finals next year. But this thread is a lil' 'old', IMO...

fleemkeģ
Nov 25th, 2003, 04:07 PM
I can't talk for others but in my case, yes, I find Venus and Serena matches very boring because it's all hard hitting.

Yes I find Justine's matches very entertaining and I don't care if people says she is a power player, she isn't IMO and that's all what counts when I decide what to see and what not to see :cool:

BTW, I don't like watching Lindsay, Jennifer or Mary, unless they play someone I like, and I too watch Venus or Serena if they play someone I like.

I do admit that the grand slam finals between Kim and Justine have been bad, but I am allowed to be biased since my favourite was in them and she actually won both. I can understand that Williams fans (fans of one or both sisters) enjoy their finals, and I don't pretend that my taste in tennis styles is the best or the right one, it's just what it is, to each his own.

I really don't understand what the problem is. If Williams fans enjoy Venus and Serena finals and others don't, what's the problem? keep enjoying them. I enjoy Justine's matches and I couldn't care less if other people find them boring. I find them exciting and again, that's all that counts for me.

It really is a matter of taste, not bad or good taste, just personal preferences. I don't doubt that some people may not like to watch Venus and Serena because they are black, well, that's up to them, it's not my case, I consider Venus and Serena in the same league as Lindsay, Mary or Jennifer and I like or dislike their games as much.

What is really an issue in Venus and Serena matches is that their sisters, they don't hate each other, they find it hard to compete against each other, I know it's natural, being otherwise would be wrong, they are first sisters and then tennis players, and It's very comendable they care for each other so much, but you know what? if I want to watch a loving family I watch a soap, when I watch tennis I want to watch tennis and if the match is bad, I don't care it's because they love each other and I don't feel rejoiced by their mutual love, I don't care about the players' personal lives (including Justine), just their games and what they do on court.

:worship: :)

This post sais it all!

SJW
Nov 25th, 2003, 04:49 PM
the Williams and the Belgian fans are as bad as each other

forget the anti Williams and anti Belgian fans....they don't count

just looking at it from a different angle i can see that there is jealousy and double standards on both sides....i agree with Fingon......i like seeing my faves in the finals and winning them :cool:

there's not much point in trying to put an end to the bickering....all four SERIOUSLY won't be appreciated until they're gone (like Martina Hingis)...i would like to think that i've seen a lot of non fans hoping for the return of the sisters. if the Belgians were gone, i'm sure i would like to see them return too (ok, i love Kimmy anyway but that's not the point).

all in all......although i may not necessarily LIKE Justine Henin (she seriously just doesn't appeal to me, i'm not a bandwagon hopper and just dislike her cuz of her actions, or not as the case may be) i appreciate her. all four bring different elements to the table. the sisters games are NOT the same, they are different, but i guess you would have to watch them to see that. Serena is more streaky, and Venus is more consistent......we just haven't seen a downer from Serena in a while. Serena has a superior serve, Venus a superior backhand, Serena forehand, Venus volley......you can pick a winner out of any category apart from movement.

i can't wait until next year.....i miss tennis already, and it will be fun to watch "the elite four" face off. they improve each other....the Williamses success made the Belgians better, more determined.....they've said it themselves. the success of the Belgians will have made the sisters practice their asses off to show them who's boss.

all four are great in their own right....if they keep improving each other, can you imagine the standard they will reach in say 3/4/5 years?

exciting prospect, I must say

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 05:10 PM
Itīs easy for Fingon to talk, because no one is giving much about Justineīs matches anyways. But with Serena and Venus EVERYTIME thereīs to be talk or comment. NEVER positive.

Dawn Marie
Nov 25th, 2003, 05:22 PM
I just find it hilarious when people use the excuse: SERENA AND VENUS PLAY ALIKE IT IS BORING. I am refering to alot of the media here. They say SERENA AND VENUS PLAY ALIKE it is BORING. Yet SO MANY PLAYERS in the past have similiar hard hitting styles... and yet not a word.

So many peole were tired of Vee winning and Serena winning. Enough

So I don't think many people who state that they dislike their similar styles are truley dislike their gamestyles. Cause they remained quiet on past players who won many matches and titles dominating with similar styles. I sure know it isn't their match results. V@S are both hard hitters and great althletes, naturally it is going to be a fight fest with errors.
Which alot of people went on and on about.. yet when Kim and Juju's matches come out ugly you just don't hear a word from Mary Jo, Mary Carillo and John Mac.

Is it any wonder that Venus and Serena watch TENNIS matches on mute???


Now I MAY BE HATCHED, I MAY BE CHALLENGED.. But sugar . I Ain't BLIND!!

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 05:27 PM
ainīt that right, Dawn?! People hate on Serena and Venus, because of their playing-style. Then you turn around and what do you see?! Their faves are Lindsay and Kim! Surprise, surprise....Lindsay and Kim play the SAME way as Venus and Serena!!!

And for all the contrasting-styles the Belgians have, their matches have been PAINS so-far! Can you imagine if they had the same playing style?! That would have given new meaning to the word: CRASH!

Brαm
Nov 25th, 2003, 06:52 PM
Maybe you two can start your own little forum? :)

bandabou :wavey:
Dawn Marie :wavey:

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 06:55 PM
You wonīt join us, brammy?! ;)

Brαm
Nov 25th, 2003, 07:00 PM
You wonīt join us, brammy?! ;)
It's Bram and no, I would never join you two.

Dawn Marie
Nov 25th, 2003, 07:06 PM
I know you wouldn't join, because you would not be able to enter outside of our box.

You stay inside, where's it's all nice and cozy and comfy for you.

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 07:09 PM
It's Bram and no, I would never join you two.

O.k., Bram...

Venus Forever
Nov 25th, 2003, 07:50 PM
Can't you at least admit (like some other fans do) that there is a double standard vis ā vis the belgian finals, coming from 'WS fans' ?! You can NOT say al the matches Kim and Justine play are boring and you Can NOT say Justine has the same style as ex. Serena. That's what makes it interesting.
And please. (nothing personal knizzle). Let's not make this into a BelgianS-WilliamS thing. Cuz they are 4 different persons !!! Let's just hope there will be some belgian-Williams finals next year. But this thread is a lil' 'old', IMO...

I still fail to see the difference between Justine and the Williams. You know why?? There is no difference.

What is so hard for fans to realize that her style of play is very, very, very similar to the Williams. Big Serve, Big Forehand, Big Backhand, Coming In To Net On Short Balls, along with Going for Winner. It's the same style of play, and they do it effectively.

Yes, Justine has a one-handed backhand, but is that really variety?? She hits it the same way the two-handed backhands hit their shots. The only thing that is different is that she slices more often, but the two handed backhand players slice when on defense too, so, that's not a valid argument. She doesn't dropshot or come to net too often to consider her style of play different. She doesn't serve and volley, she doesn't chip and charge, so where is the variety??

That's right, there is no variety. Her game is to go for winners, and at the back of the court by overpowering their opponents, which is the same style of play as the Williams' and Clijsters.

Again, no difference.

This variety crap is just BS for the Belgian fans to come up with an excuse to praise the Belgians meetings, and trash the Williams' meetings.

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 07:55 PM
Couldnīt have said it better, Venusforever!

Only thing that Justineīs different is a one-handed backhand. Nothing else.

griffin
Nov 25th, 2003, 08:01 PM
I still fail to see the difference between Justine and the Williams. You know why?? There is no difference.


Cool, so you're a Justine fan, too? And you're just as happy to watch her matches as Venus and Serena's?

Venus Forever
Nov 25th, 2003, 08:21 PM
Cool, so you're a Justine fan, too? And you're just as happy to watch her matches as Venus and Serena's?

I love watching Justine play, because she does have a great game.

I'm not her fan because I don't like her character, and will never respect her as a person again for what she did at the French, but I do respect her for being a great tennis player.

BTW, I see nothing wrong with either the all-Belgian Finals, nor the all-Williams finals. If they were the best during that tournament, then they definitely deserve to be there and play that final, no matter how bad the match may be.

I'm just sick of hearing people complain about both, and I totally understand where both fans are coming from, but listen, they were the best in each tournament, they deserve to be there, so I urge both Williams and Belgian fans alike to stop complaining about the quality of play. I don't want to hear this shit anymore.

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 08:26 PM
That wasnīt the thing Venusforever. The thing is that they people moan about the Williams-Williams finals, but hail the all-Belgian finals....eventhough the all-Belgian finals have stunk MORE than the all-Williams finals.

So either critize both or none.

griffin
Nov 25th, 2003, 08:26 PM
I'm just sick of hearing people complain about both, and I totally understand where both fans are coming from, but listen, they were the best in each tournament, they deserve to be there, so I urge both Williams and Belgian fans alike to stop complaining about the quality of play. I don't want to hear this shit anymore.

You and me both :)

Brαm
Nov 25th, 2003, 08:27 PM
The thing is that they people moan about the Williams-Williams finals, but hail the all-Belgian finals

That is what YOU say! Now prove it (quotes, articles, etc.)

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 08:30 PM
Iīll come for ya, Bram...give me a sec.

griffin
Nov 25th, 2003, 08:33 PM
babandou: (sorry to quote myself, but I can't be bothered to type this out again)

We certainly HAVE seen people start to spew shit at them now that they've moved up the rankings, and as Crow so aptly pointed out some of the people who were thrilled by "all V&S all the time" and complained when others said it bored them already HAVE started bitching about the "boring all-Belgian finals" - so I'm sure if they manage to run the tables the way Venus and Serena did, we'll see "not again/boring finals" to the extent we heard it about Venus and Serena.

But hey, you're gonna see what you want to see.

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 08:42 PM
People on this board, griff....but did you hear any commentator say anything about their matches being bad?! Me neither.

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 08:43 PM
Did you hear Mac during Wimbledon-final?! EVERYBODY knew that Venus was injured, that she shouldnīt have played at-all and stuff, but he kept harping about how this is bad and blah blah.

Venus Forever
Nov 25th, 2003, 08:51 PM
That wasnīt the thing Venusforever. The thing is that they people moan about the Williams-Williams finals, but hail the all-Belgian finals....eventhough the all-Belgian finals have stunk MORE than the all-Williams finals.

So either critize both or none.

Don't worry, I know that. ;)

I'm just sick of it both, if they made it to the final to meet each other, that's because they deserve to be there. Let it be, stop the bickering.

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 08:55 PM
Amen that....but of course the Belgians werenīt as dominating as the williamses were.

shap_half
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:10 PM
NO why is it sooo hard for you to understand that her style of play is very different from the Williams. I've come up with a theory - whether or not it is wrong will remain to be unseen - but it seems like Williams fands cannot admit that Justine who does not use the same style of play as Justine can beat the sisters. It seems like to beat the sisters you have be the sisters. I'm sorry but no. Justine's style of play is different from Serena's and Venus. Justine is more of an all court player where as the sisters are mainly baseliners and servers. If you can't see it then don't.

shap_half
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:14 PM
That wasnīt the thing Venusforever. The thing is that they people moan about the Williams-Williams finals, but hail the all-Belgian finals....eventhough the all-Belgian finals have stunk MORE than the all-Williams finals.

So either critize both or none.

No sir the 2001 USO Final was the worst final I've seen when it comes to Belgian Finals vs. Williams Finals.

It's not going to matter, some of the Williams fans are never going to see that the Williams finals have stunk the same way some of the Belgians' fans will not do the same.

I'm happy to see Justine in the final. As long as she's there - it's already a good final to me.

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:15 PM
Nothing wrong with their style of playing, huh shap?!

shap_half
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:18 PM
I don't care about their style of playing. All I'm saying is that it's not Justine's.

hey_britney
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:21 PM
it seems that alot of people who were bored with seeing Venus (her own person) and Serena (her own person) play in the same matches are now content and okay. They now seem silent with the same ole kim and juju matches. Whereas all hell broke loose when V@S competed in the same matches.

So V@S are from the same family and have similiar traits, so do Kim and Justine.

So why is or WAS everyone so silent when it was the same ole same ole same ole JUJU and KIM in final? JUJU and KIM in final. Same ole same ole JUJU AND KIM in final. JUJU and Kim in final?

SAME OLE SAME OLE JUJU and KIM in final? Sa..me.. well i think u get the picture..

Because there is a rivalry between Kim and Justine. They are not siblings, and they desperately want to beat each other. It matters who wins because they are not of the same family. To anybody but a Williams fan, it doesn't matter who wins Venus-Serena matches. The Williamses have already won the tournament, it's not important which one holds the big trophy. It's sort of boring to watch matches you're not interested in. Basically, while Venus and Serena are their own person, they are really seen as one. You either like both, or neither. They're polarizing figures, as I've said before.

Plus, they have yet to produce a good match in their many Slam finals. In addition, Venus has yet to produce a win since 2001 over her sister. So there's clearly really nothing exciting about Williams-Williams finals unless you're a huge fan.

So don't try to make Justine-Kim out to be the same thing. You can't bitch about the Williams' incredible story of two sisters making it to the top of tennis not getting enough attention, and then tell me that their matches are exactly the same as two unrelated players facing off.

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:24 PM
And Kim vs Justine have been great,Kim has beaten Justine, etc right?! Pl-uhze!

hey_britney
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:26 PM
And Kim vs Justine have been great,Kim has beaten Justine, etc right?! Pl-uhze!

Yes, Kim has. lol. More times that not, too.

And it's not really about the quality of their matches or the outcome. It's the fact that the outcome matters, whereas it really doesn't with Williams-Williams.

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:27 PM
I don't care about their style of playing. All I'm saying is that it's not Justine's.

Donīt care about their style of playing?!

You say that Justineīs an all-court player, but she rarely ventures at the net and WHEN she does venture, she is barely average in winning percentage. Whatīs so all-court about her then?! That she has a one-handed backhand?!

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:29 PM
Yes, Kim has. lol. More times that not, too.

And it's not really about the quality of their matches or the outcome. It's the fact that the outcome matters, whereas it really doesn't with Williams-Williams.

Because people wonīt chose a side! They keep insisting that Venus and Serena are one. Choose a side,no?! I love both, but I prefer Serena to win.

So if one day( highly unlikely, but still) Elke was to play Kim in a GS, the outcome wouldnīt matter?!

hey_britney
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:33 PM
Because people wonīt chose a side! They keep insisting that Venus and Serena are one. Choose a side,no?! I love both, but I prefer Serena to win.

So if one day( highly unlikely, but still) Elke was to play Kim in a GS, the outcome wouldnīt matter?!

Probably not. Same as if the Maleeva sisters played every Slam final. It would get very boring unless you were a big fan of them, and the end result wouldn't matter very much.

Venus Forever
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:35 PM
Because people wonīt chose a side! They keep insisting that Venus and Serena are one. Choose a side,no?! I love both, but I prefer Serena to win.

So if one day( highly unlikely, but still) Elke was to play Kim in a GS, the outcome wouldnīt matter?!

Don't bother with the moron. He still doesn't think Spirlea was responsible for the bump, even though she admitted it.

You know what his reason was?? We still don't know what Venus was thinking. :lol:

hey_britney
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:39 PM
Don't bother with the moron. He still doesn't think Spirlea was responsible for the bump, even though she admitted it.

You know what his reason was?? We still don't know what Venus was thinking. :lol:

I'm the moron? You can't even grasp hypotheticals, as you've clearly shown by once again misunderstanding what I was saying.

But why don't you leave that where it belongs. The other thread.

Venus Forever
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:41 PM
NO why is it sooo hard for you to understand that her style of play is very different from the Williams. I've come up with a theory - whether or not it is wrong will remain to be unseen - but it seems like Williams fands cannot admit that Justine who does not use the same style of play as Justine can beat the sisters. It seems like to beat the sisters you have be the sisters. I'm sorry but no. Justine's style of play is different from Serena's and Venus. Justine is more of an all court player where as the sisters are mainly baseliners and servers. If you can't see it then don't.

Yes, all court game, that's why she stays at the baseline, huh?? Is that why the Williams come in even more, or at least the same amount of times that Justine comes in??

Just like at Wimbledon, where Serena came in TWENTY times, compared to Justine's 14?? Or, what about the Australian open when Venus came in NINETEEN times, compared to Justine's SEVENTEEN. Yes, must be a more all around game. Not to mention that the winning percentages up there between Serena and Justine were basically the same, and Venus has a 20% better winning percentage up there.

I totally see where her better all court game came in.

:tape: :tape: :tape:

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:42 PM
Probably not. Same as if the Maleeva sisters played every Slam final. It would get very boring unless you were a big fan of them, and the end result wouldn't matter very much.

Probably not?! I thought it was certain?! So with Clijsters-Clijsters the result probably would matter, but with Williams-Williams it wouldnīt?!

:scratch:

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:44 PM
Yes, all court game, that's why she stays at the baseline, huh?? Is that why the Williams come in even more, or at least the same amount of times that Justine comes in??

Just like at Wimbledon, where Serena came in TWENTY times, compared to Justine's 14?? Or, what about the Australian open when Venus came in NINETEEN times, compared to Justine's SEVENTEEN. Yes, must be a more all around game. Not to mention that the winning percentages up there between Serena and Justine were basically the same, and Venus has a 20% better winning percentage up there.

I totally see where her better all court game came in.

:tape: :tape: :tape:

You forgot to say that Serena came at the net like 30 times during the French too and Justine had only like 20 net-aproaches.

Venus Forever
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:46 PM
Probably not. Same as if the Maleeva sisters played every Slam final. It would get very boring unless you were a big fan of them, and the end result wouldn't matter very much.

What's the difference between sisters continuously playing GS finals, and say, players from the same country, or just tro players in general??

If one's boring, the other would become boring just as well, right?? I mean, afterall, it's the same two people battling it out over and over again, right??

Venus Forever
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:48 PM
You forgot to say that Serena came at the net like 30 times during the French too and Justine had only like 20 net-aproaches.

Yes, how could I forget that Serena came in 25 times in the French, while Justine came in only 17.

Clearly, Justine has the better all around game, although she prefers to play at the baseline.

:tape: :tape:

Venus Forever
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:59 PM
I'm the moron? You can't even grasp hypotheticals, as you've clearly shown by once again misunderstanding what I was saying.

But why don't you leave that where it belongs. The other thread.

There's no point in hypotheticals when someone has admitted to the "crime."

If someone says: "Yeah, I fired this gun to see if she would move, but she didn't, so, well, she died."

Is the police not going to arrest her?? Of course not, because maybe the girl told the shooter to shoot her.

Please. :rolleyes:

Of course they're going to arrest her, because she admitted she shot her.

Same thing in the Venus, Spirlea case. There's no point in pondering what Venus was thinking. Venus said she was concentrating on the match, and thought it was an accident. OTOH, Spirlea was focusing more on where Venus was walking, and even admitted that she wanted to get close to see if Venus would move, which didn't happen. Spirlea knew where she was walking, and she walked into Venus. As simple as that, there's your blame. We know what both we're thinking, and we know that Spirlea's the blame, she even admitted it. Hypotheticals have no value. As soon as a person confesses, she's guilty, there's no other scenarios, unless she confessed wrongly to cover for another person, but there is no other person to cover for in this scenario.

Understand?? :rolleyes: :o

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:02 PM
Say no more, Venus! Say no more!

hey_britney
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:22 PM
Probably not?! I thought it was certain?! So with Clijsters-Clijsters the result probably would matter, but with Williams-Williams it wouldnīt?!

:scratch:

Williams-Williams matters for a historical perspective, just like Clijsters-Clijsters would. So both wouldn't matter to me unless I was a fan or either, but they do matter for the sake o' history, dear bandabou.

hey_britney
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:29 PM
What's the difference between sisters continuously playing GS finals, and say, players from the same country, or just tro players in general??

If one's boring, the other would become boring just as well, right?? I mean, afterall, it's the same two people battling it out over and over again, right??

I already told you. They are SISTERS. That is the difference! there's no intense rivalry there. It's different than any non-sibling matches. Unless you are arguing that there is no difference in closeness between sisters as compared to countrywomen. But that's absurd, so I'll assume you don't mean that.

You either like the Williams sisters, or you don't. I guess it's the same as watching two other players you dislike play time and again, with the only difference being that the outcome matters more since the trophy doesn't go to team williams or team clijsters regardless of the winner of the match.

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:33 PM
Williams-Williams matters for a historical perspective, just like Clijsters-Clijsters would. So both wouldn't matter to me unless I was a fan or either, but they do matter for the sake o' history, dear bandabou.

At least youīre consistent....

hey_britney
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:34 PM
There's no point in hypotheticals when someone has admitted to the "crime."

If someone says: "Yeah, I fired this gun to see if she would move, but she didn't, so, well, she died."

Is the police not going to arrest her?? Of course not, because maybe the girl told the shooter to shoot her.

Please. :rolleyes:

Of course they're going to arrest her, because she admitted she shot her.

Same thing in the Venus, Spirlea case. There's no point in pondering what Venus was thinking. Venus said she was concentrating on the match, and thought it was an accident. OTOH, Spirlea was focusing more on where Venus was walking, and even admitted that she wanted to get close to see if Venus would move, which didn't happen. Spirlea knew where she was walking, and she walked into Venus. As simple as that, there's your blame. We know what both we're thinking, and we know that Spirlea's the blame, she even admitted it. Hypotheticals have no value. As soon as a person confesses, she's guilty, there's no other scenarios, unless she confessed wrongly to cover for another person, but there is no other person to cover for in this scenario.

Understand?? :rolleyes: :o

Yes, I understand that you're wrong, and I'm right.

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:35 PM
I can see your point,brit.... sisters canīt hate each other or at leat not in the publicīs mind.

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:35 PM
So they wonīt arrest the shooter, brit?!

hey_britney
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:37 PM
I'm not sure what some of you want from this thread, though. If the Williams fans are so bored with Kim-Justine finals, that's GREAT. They can be. But why start these threads? Why try to get people to "admit" that other players playing is just as boring when they clearly aren't going to feel that way and there's also no way of proving that point?

Some of you won't be happy until this board bans anybody who doesn't like the sisters.

hey_britney
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:37 PM
So they wonīt arrest the shooter, brit?!

I didn't even read what he had to say. lol. I've been over it with him.

hey_britney
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:40 PM
Besides, his example is faulty.

bandabou
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:43 PM
Nope....for me it is just that you canīt critize PLAY of the Williams-Williams finals and then HAIL the all-Belgian finals, when the play has been as bad.

If people said two sisters dominating could be bad for the sport, hmm....maybe i could see that.

But donīt say they play bad against each other( they did at beginning) and then remain silent about the all-Belgian finals. Then you are not being consistent.

If you hate the PLAY of Williams-Williams matches, then you have to admit to yourself that the all-Belgian matches have been bad as well.

hey_britney
Nov 25th, 2003, 10:45 PM
Nope....for me it is just that you canīt critize PLAY of the Williams-Williams finals and then HAIL the all-Belgian finals, when the play has been as bad.

If people said two sisters dominating could be bad for the sport, hmm....maybe i could see that.

But donīt say they play bad against each other( they did at beginning) and then remain silent about the all-Belgian finals. Then you are not being consistent.

If you hate the PLAY of Williams-Williams matches, then you have to admit to yourself that the all-Belgian matches have been bad as well.

Well, that's fair enough.