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Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 22nd, 2003, 07:45 PM
the most powerful hitters??? Um excuse me but their groundstrokes about even in terms of ground stroke speed with davenport, jen, justine, kim, myskina, mary and a few others. Venus may be the fastest server but when an ace at 88 mph is no better or worse than an ace at 120. The sisters excell because of a combination of factors, they are a jack of all trades and that is why they are so good. Speed, power, athleticism and mental fortitude are what propells them, especially the mental part.

so if youre going to make comparisons of power and hitting then why not make it with the person who hits the hardest mary, lucic, davenport.

oh and my new favorite russina is myskina after her fearless and superb effort in the fed cup. She rocks and is my new honorary williams sisters. sorry miss model shara.

Doraemon
Nov 22nd, 2003, 07:48 PM
If you don't think they are among the hardest hitters, then you either don't know tennis or are in denial.

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:03 PM
lol, justbecause they are the biggest hitters doesn't mean anybody is saying that's all they have to their game....

another Why-Don't-The-Sisters-Get-Enough-Credit thread.

harloo
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:08 PM
What I find odd is that everyone does not attribute Davenport, and Jen's success to the power game. They only consider them to be smart girls who just happen to hit the ball hard. LOL

And they constantly compare Justine to Hingis because she is so small and fragile in their eyes. Well it looks like Justine uses a lot of POWER to me, but of course her one handed backhand is the reason she is not considered a power baseliner. :lol:

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:11 PM
What I find odd is that everyone does not attribute Davenport, and Jen's success to the power game. They only consider them to be smart girls who just happen to hit the ball hard. LOL

And they constantly compare Justine to Hingis because she is so small and fragile in their eyes. Well it looks like Justine uses a lot of POWER to me, but of course her one handed backhand is the reason she is not considered a power baseliner. :lol:

Who doesn't attribute the success of Davenport and Capriati to their power games? I find it hard to believe anybody wouldn't.

Justine is a bulked-up version of Hingis with a wicked one-handed backhand.

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:14 PM
The thing is people say: They win because they hit hard.

well if it was about hitting hard, then wouldn´t Lindsay, Lucic, Mary,be on top?! all hit HARDER than the sisters.

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:17 PM
The thing is people say: They win because they hit hard.

well if it was about hitting hard, then wouldn´t Lindsay, Lucic, Mary,be on top?! all hit HARDER than the sisters.

I don't agree. I think the sisters hit harder than all three.

Lindsay is about the only player who can match the sisters in winners (on a good day), but I wouldn't go as far as to say she hits harder than they do.

harloo
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:19 PM
I'm sorry but who considered Jenn smart?

When have you ever seen Jen or Lindsay attacked for hitting the ball as hard as they do?

I like Lindsay and her game, but that's all you hear is that she is a beautiful striker of the ball. Do you hear her or Jen's success on tour being attributed to how hard they hit the ball?

No you don't. :rolleyes:

And I like Lindsay too. :)

Also, Henin is not Hingis. Please. Hingis was just more crafty. The comparison is an insult to Martina. :rolleyes:

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:20 PM
I don't agree. I think the sisters hit harder than all three.

Lindsay is about the only player who can match the sisters in winners (on a good day), but I wouldn't go as far as to say she hits harder than they do.

Really?! Go in the Mary Pierce hits....thread and you´ll see that the concensus is that Mary hits harder.

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:21 PM
When have you ever seen Jen or Lindsay attacked for hitting the ball as hard as they do?

I like Lindsay and her game, but that's all you hear is that she is a beautiful striker of the ball. Do you hear her or Jen's success on tour being attributed to how hard they hit the ball?

No you don't. :rolleyes:

And I like Lindsay too. :)

Also, Henin is not Hingis. Please. Hingis was just more crafty. The comparison is an insult to Martina. :rolleyes:

ain´t this the truth?!

harloo
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:22 PM
I don't agree. I think the sisters hit harder than all three.

Lindsay is about the only player who can match the sisters in winners (on a good day), but I wouldn't go as far as to say she hits harder than they do.

Lucic hit's harder than the sisters. And Mary can match them as well as Lindsay. But Justine uses alot of power also.

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:25 PM
Really?! Go in the Mary Pierce hits....thread and you´ll see that the concensus is that Mary hits harder.

and i disagree.

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:26 PM
Lucic hit's harder than the sisters. And Mary can match them as well as Lindsay. But Justine uses alot of power also.

Lucic does not.

Mary cannot.

Yes, justine uses lots of power. that's why she's the bulked up version of hingis.

Doraemon
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:26 PM
When have you ever seen Jen or Lindsay attacked for hitting the ball as hard as they do?

I like Lindsay and her game, but that's all you hear is that she is a beautiful striker of the ball. Do you hear her or Jen's success on tour being attributed to how hard they hit the ball?

No you don't. :rolleyes:

And I like Lindsay too. :)

Also, Henin is not Hingis. Please. Hingis was just more crafty. The comparison is an insult to Martina. :rolleyes:

It's obvious that the sisters are so good as they are not just because of their power. Ppl who say the sisters are good only because they are so powerful are just no worth taking seriously. So chill out and listen only to educated ppl. Usually we attribute the sisters' success to their athleticism which apparently Lindsay doesn't have so I guess it's a fair statement though they obviously have more than that to their game. When they first came on the scene, they tended more to resort to their power and athleticism but over the years they leanred to use brains and variety of shots which should be attributed to their rise from top players to the best players. In my opinion, everyone who is educated about tennis gives them enough credit and if you think they don't, then you may be listening to wrong ppl.

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:31 PM
It's obvious that the sisters are so good as they are not just because of their power. Ppl who say the sisters are good only because they are so powerful are just no worth taking seriously. So chill out and listen only to educated ppl. Usually we attribute the sisters' success to their athleticism which apparently Lindsay doesn't have so I guess it's a fair statement though they obviously have more than that to their game. When they first came on the scene, they tended more to resort to their power and athleticism but over the years they leanred to use brains and variety of shots which should be attributed to their rise from top players to the best players. In my opinion, everyone who is educated about tennis gives them enough credit and if you think they don't, then you may be listening to wrong ppl.

They ain´t that many that give them credit as you think.

harloo
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:39 PM
No, just like I have never seen Venus or Serena being attacked for hitting the ball as hard as they do.

Are you serious? Please, you must live on a different planet if you have not heard the complaints. Or maybe you have not been around long enough. :rolleyes:

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:42 PM
People even called their "power"-game bad for tennis!

When there are players who can hit harder than them sisters.

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:46 PM
The thing is... Some 12 years old internet troll will say that Williams sisters only win because of power and then we'll read for the next 10 years how "people" think the Williams only win because they hit hard.

that's because some of the williams fans have a chip on their shoulder about the williamses not getting enough respect (supposedly). Therefore, some of them feel the need to hammer down our throats this type of thing in an effort to rebut every "12 year old troll" on the net. get used to it, it ain't going away.

tennisIlove09
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:50 PM
I think when Venus and Serena first came on tour, all they did was hit the ball hard. I think both have matured, and realized that they don't have to hit EVERY ball as hard as they can--which they did when they first came on tour.

Knizzle
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:55 PM
No, just like I have never seen Venus or Serena being attacked for hitting the ball as hard as they do.

Where have you been?? Every damn article says "Williams overpowered her opponent with 110+ mph serves and blistering groundstrokes" something to that effect.

harloo
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:56 PM
Links of threads with complain please? I read this board and the sanex board for more than 4 year, ha!

No matter what evidence I put in front of you, you will dismiss it as just someone's imagination. You seem to live in a state of denial that is disturbing, and if anyone knows anything about the sanex board they would know what kind of garbage went on there about the sisters as well as the other players. So I find you to be a waste of time andy this, andy that. And frankly I will not waste any more of my time of your rantings.

Yeah I believe you were on sanex for 4 years alright. :tape: :rolleyes:

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 08:57 PM
Where have you been?? Every damn article says "Williams overpowered her opponent with 110+ mph serves and blistering groundstrokes" something to that effect.

And that is .... untrue?

Knizzle
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:01 PM
And that is .... untrue?

Not necessarily, but there is never any mention of the tactical game of the sisters, just the power.

Ryan
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:05 PM
I think when Venus and Serena first came on tour, all they did was hit the ball hard. I think both have matured, and realized that they don't have to hit EVERY ball as hard as they can--which they did when they first came on tour.


Ta da! This is mainly why they lost so many matches early in their career, because they played hit-or-miss tennis. Now they have developed every other part of their game and have become complete players IMO. And yes, Lucic hits harder then Venus and Serena.

Infiniti2001
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:17 PM
hey_britney, if you don't have any copies of RG 2002, and Wimby 2000, 2001 and 2002 request a copy from someone to listen to the way the so-called commenters tear down the sisters (especially Venus). I literally have my television on mute while making copies of tapes for people ugh.
Thank God Chris Everet is gone, because she was the absolute worse when it came to Venus. She never missed an opportunity to reduce her fantastic play and well constructed points to Wing Span and power . :fiery:

"Topaz"
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:19 PM
Those who doubt what kind of crap Serena had to put up with, check my signature below. The attack got to a point where she felt compelled to respond to it ... a year ago.

Hi Cybelle, Harloo! We've been at it for quite a long time, haven't we?

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:29 PM
[QUOTE=Knizzle]Not necessarily, but there is never any mention of the tactical game of the sisters, just the power.[/QUOT

Well, they don't mention the "tactical game" of Davenport when she wins .... cuz she really wins with power, and not much else.

I don't personally believe the Williams sisters have much in the way of a tactical game. They're not Novotna or Hingis. They key to their wins is power and athleticism (speed, court coverage). They don't outthink people, they're stronger and faster.

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:32 PM
Not that they are mindless drones .... they understand tennis strategy and are better for it, but how can anybody deny that their power and athleticism is what their success revolves around?

Knizzle
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:33 PM
Yes and? What does it have to do with the thread? She can overpower her opponent, but at the same time it doesn't mean she is only about power.

It has everything to do with it. They are always pegged for their power and nothing else.

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:35 PM
It has everything to do with it. They are always pegged for their power and nothing else.

so is davenport, so is pierce. nobody cares.

Knizzle
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:36 PM
[QUOTE=Knizzle]Not necessarily, but there is never any mention of the tactical game of the sisters, just the power.[/QUOT

Well, they don't mention the "tactical game" of Davenport when she wins .... cuz she really wins with power, and not much else.

I don't personally believe the Williams sisters have much in the way of a tactical game. They're not Novotna or Hingis. They key to their wins is power and athleticism (speed, court coverage). They don't outthink people, they're stronger and faster.

They do outthink opponents. You are a prime example of what we are talking about. Andy this Andy that are you reading this?? Ask any of the top players and they will tell you how smart match players the sisters are.

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:38 PM
They do outthink opponents. You are a prime example of what we are talking about. Andy this Andy that are you reading this?? Ask any of the top players and they will tell you how smart match players the sisters are.

I'm not saying they're not.

It's just whatever tactical knowledge they employ is secondary to their power and athleticism. that is what wins them matches.

Knizzle
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:40 PM
I'm not saying they're not.

It's just whatever tactical knowledge they employ is secondary to their power and athleticism. that is what wins them matches.

They had the same power and athleticism before, but they started winning when they used their heads more and also became more mentally tough. They combine the two.

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:44 PM
[QUOTE=Knizzle]Not necessarily, but there is never any mention of the tactical game of the sisters, just the power.[/QUOT

Well, they don't mention the "tactical game" of Davenport when she wins .... cuz she really wins with power, and not much else.

I don't personally believe the Williams sisters have much in the way of a tactical game. They're not Novotna or Hingis. They key to their wins is power and athleticism (speed, court coverage). They don't outthink people, they're stronger and faster.

Then the question is: They always had power and athletiscism, but they didn´t start winning from the going.

What happened that they started winning?!

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:44 PM
They had the same power and athleticism before, but they started winning when they used their heads more and also became more mentally tough. They combine the two.

you're right about both. But the biggest reason they morphed into the best is because they became more consistent. they just got BETTER at what they did best anyway. Sure, they became smarter and more mentally tough. But it still comes down to their power and their athleticism.

Knizzle
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:46 PM
[QUOTE=Knizzle]They had the same power and athleticism before, but they started winning when they used their heads more and also became more mentally tough. They combine the two.[/QUOTE

you're right about both. But the biggest reason they morphed into the best is because they became more consistent. they just got BETTER at what they did best anyway. Sure, they became smarter and more mentally tough. But it still comes down to their power and they athleticism.

Anyone who is successful in today's game needs power and athleticism.

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:46 PM
Then the question is: They always had power and athletiscism, but they didn´t start winning from the going.

What happened that they started winning?!

Explained above. Above 2, that is.

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:46 PM
Anyone who is successful in today's game needs power and athleticism.

Yup. and the sisters have more of that than anybody.

Knizzle
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:47 PM
Yup. and the sisters have more of that than anybody.

Some have as much power, but the sisters ARE the most athletic and cover the court the best. Most of all they go from defense to offense like no other. That's part of why they are THE best.

Venus Forever
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:49 PM
you're right about both. But the biggest reason they morphed into the best is because they became more consistent. they just got BETTER at what they did best anyway. Sure, they became smarter and more mentally tough. But it still comes down to their power and their athleticism.

That's only half the reason.

They became better not just because they became more consistent, but also because they became smarter on the court. They now know when their previous shot was so forceful that they are going to get an easy volley. They know when to come into net more, they learned more tactical moves by the help of King and others. They have become better players because they developed a sense of the court and what to do out there.

It's not all about the power.

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:49 PM
So it ain´t a bad thing afterall that you can run harder than the rest?!

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:49 PM
But brit will insist that the sisters are the most powerful players in the world.

Seenus
Nov 22nd, 2003, 09:59 PM
Power is good. Nobody should apologize for it. If Venus and Serena are the most powerful players in the game they should be proud of it.
Don't let people con you into thinking a great thing is a bad thing.

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 10:03 PM
Some have as much power, but the sisters ARE the most athletic and cover the court the best. Most of all they go from defense to offense like no other. That's part of why they are THE best.

I KNOW. i have been saying that ALL ALONG.

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2003, 10:05 PM
I KNOW. i have been saying that ALL ALONG.

Not true! You said because of their power.

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 10:05 PM
That's only half the reason.

They became better not just because they became more consistent, but also because they became smarter on the court. They now know when their previous shot was so forceful that they are going to get an easy volley. They know when to come into net more, they learned more tactical moves by the help of King and others. They have become better players because they developed a sense of the court and what to do out there.

It's not all about the power.

i'm not saying that!!! i acknowldge these things. i'm just saying, their games are still more reliant upon power and ATHLETICISM (for knizzle, who missed that part for the 4884848563490 times i wrote it) than anything else. I defy anybody to say otherwise.

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 10:06 PM
Not true! You said because of their power.

AND ATHLETICISM! AND ATHLETICISM! A-T-H-L-E-T-I-C-I-S-M!

read my posts, jesus.

Knizzle
Nov 22nd, 2003, 10:06 PM
I KNOW. i have been saying that ALL ALONG.

You seem to fail to acknowledge that they are great thinkers on the court also. They are also the best at playing the big points. Knowing what to do in pressure situations makes the difference in the sisters' matches.

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2003, 10:08 PM
AND ATHLETICISM! AND ATHLETICISM! A-T-H-L-E-T-I-C-I-S-M!

read my posts, jesus.

Of course...you can put a Marion Jones or Gail Divers and she is no.1 in NO time.

Venus Forever
Nov 22nd, 2003, 10:22 PM
i'm not saying that!!! i acknowldge these things. i'm just saying, their games are still more reliant upon power and ATHLETICISM (for knizzle, who missed that part for the 4884848563490 times i wrote it) than anything else. I defy anybody to say otherwise.

If it was all about power, wouldn't it all be about just hitting the ball back as hard they can?? But see, they don't do that. They move the ball side to side and until they have drawn their opponent so far off the court that they can hit the ball up the line, or come in a finish the point up at net. That's all about brains, not power. Power helps out, but their brains is what helps them finish a point off, and win more os their points.

Then plays like their defense, where they retrieve all the balls back, by not going for too much, and waiting for an opportunity to take over the point.

These are smart plays, not "look at all my power."

Face it, they try to open the court, in a smart manner, they don't just try to hit through their opponent, they play smart tactical tennis to open up the court and put the ball away. Their power just helps along with their brain.

They do what hingis does, except with more power, and minus the lobs and dropshots.

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 11:09 PM
You seem to fail to acknowledge that they are great thinkers on the court also. They are also the best at playing the big points. Knowing what to do in pressure situations makes the difference in the sisters' matches.

Actually, i did acknowledge that! You seem not to acknowledge that it is their power and athleticism that are the primary reasons they are where they are in the women's tennis.

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 11:11 PM
Of course...you can put a Marion Jones or Gail Divers and she is no.1 in NO time.

why don't you go back to the start of this discussion and read what i had to say (since clearly you did not before) and then comment.

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2003, 11:21 PM
I read what you said: You said because of their power and athletiscism...so that means you can put a Marion Jones, give her a raquet and she´ll do just fine imo.

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 11:23 PM
I read what you said: You said because of their power and athletiscism...so that means you can put a Marion Jones, give her a raquet and she´ll do just fine imo.

that's not what i said.

hey_britney
Nov 22nd, 2003, 11:23 PM
but i'm about done with this thread. none of you have bothered to read my posts, you all have selective vision.

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2003, 11:31 PM
But I do agree with you....Serena and Venus win mainly due to their athletiscism.

I just wanted to see if you think they have an itchy pitchy tennis-talent too.

space
Nov 23rd, 2003, 12:14 AM
They ain´t that many that give them credit as you think.


You are so right. People always say they win by their power even the lousy commentators. Have you notice now everyone is changing their stories about certain things they have said about the sisters. They even try to change the stories when we started saying that they say that the sisters were not good for tennis. In the last couple of days we are hearing a different story, where people are saying that no one said that they were not good for tennis. My, my my.

space
Nov 23rd, 2003, 12:26 AM
i'm not saying that!!! i acknowldge these things. i'm just saying, their games are still more reliant upon power and ATHLETICISM (for knizzle, who missed that part for the 4884848563490 times i wrote it) than anything else. I defy anybody to say otherwise.


Then kim should have about 10 slams no.

bandabou
Nov 23rd, 2003, 12:33 AM
Space, man you´re taking the words out of my mouth. Now everybody wanna play and act like they didn´t say thing and stuff!

bandabou
Nov 23rd, 2003, 12:34 AM
Then kim should have about 10 slams no.

Ain´t that right: power and athletiscism.....yet NO GS´s to show for it!:scratch:

hey_britney
Nov 23rd, 2003, 12:37 AM
Then kim should have about 10 slams no.

apparently you missed where i said the sisters have more power and athleticism than anybody else.

and you also missed where i said those were not the sole factors in their success, merely the largest.

but that's ok, everybody else did too.

hey_britney
Nov 23rd, 2003, 12:38 AM
But I do agree with you....Serena and Venus win mainly due to their athletiscism.

I just wanted to see if you think they have an itchy pitchy tennis-talent too.

i already said that, if you'll notice.

and now i'm done!

bandabou
Nov 23rd, 2003, 12:44 AM
At last someone who´s willing to admit that the sisters do have a "little" tennis-talent besides power and athletiscism!

dreamgoddess099
Nov 23rd, 2003, 11:59 AM
As I always say, it's not how athletic, powerful, or how great a thinker you are. What good are any of those things if you are not smart enough to execute them? It's all about execution. Execution takes lots of brains. You have to be smart to know how to put all of those things together. Tennis is a backward sport in that way. It praises so-called "brainy" players that supposedly use their brains to beat their opponents, but looks down on players who use their power and athleticism to win (as if to say they have no strategy). Which really makes no sense being as though tennis is a sport and not a chess game (well, not entirely). The real question is, why is power and athleticism in tennis treated with such distaste? That is, why does tennis (a sport) seem to frown upon power and athleticism so much? Most so-called “power players” are often seen as just ball bashing brutes with no strategy that do nothing other than hit the ball as hard as possible. But, the so-called “brainy” players are given all kinds of praise for their strategy. If you think about it, the power players have a better strategy to be honest. They actually have a more brilliant and more simplistic method that is more effective. I see how some could not recognize it. Basically, they just don’t allow their opponent to get their racket on the ball or setup properly for their shot. This way of play is the most effective because it reduces all levels of skill down to one. How so? Well, it doesn’t matter how skilled you are if you can’t get your racket on the ball. And, if you can’t get your racket on the ball how can you hit it? On the other hand, just getting to the ball is not enough. You have to have skill to be able to control the ball so that it hits within the lines. Instead of people seeing it as power players just using their power and athleticism to win so they don’t have to think, you should see it as brainy players just using their brains to weasel out of having to use their poor athleticism and run. Truth is, you need both. One to get you where you’re going, the other to know what to do once you get there.

bandabou
Nov 23rd, 2003, 12:16 PM
I hear ya,goddess! And that is JUST the way it is!

justine&coria
Nov 23rd, 2003, 01:43 PM
They do not hit the hardest they can, on every stroke in a match.
Their "power average" in a match is quite the same as Davenport for example.
But, they can hit a lot harder than everyone : they can have impressive "accelerations".
Noone can outplay an opponent the way the Williams do (when they're at their best).

For example, this year Serena totally outplayed Mauresmo : the score was something like 6-2 6-3, which doesn't really seems extra-ordinary, but those who watched the match know how much Mauresmo was dominated.
It wasn't Mauresmo's first loss 6-2 6-3, but, she's never been so dominated (except in other matches against the Williams)

bandabou
Nov 23rd, 2003, 01:52 PM
Yeah....in Paris Indoors, Serena went on a tear from 2-2 in the first to like 4-0 in the second! That was like EIGHTH!! games on the trut!!

Venus Forever
Nov 23rd, 2003, 06:46 PM
That Paris final was just spectacular from Serena. She never played so well, even serving and volleying.