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Paneru
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:31 PM
Absence of Williams sisters irks Martina
Mon 10 November, 2003 09:23

By Matthew Cronin

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The Williams sisters Venus and Serena have earned a rebuke from Martina Navratilova for turning their backs on a ceremony celebrating the 30th anniversary of the WTA tour.

Eight of the 13 year-end world number ones invited did show up at the STAPLES Center for an on-court ceremony to honour tour founder Billie Jean King and the other founding members.

But the Williams sisters -- plus Steffi Graf, Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario and Monica Seles -- were conspicuous by their absence.

"You're part of the history and the present and future. It's too bad they (the Williams sisters) didn't make it. I know Serena is in town... I don't know where Venus is," Navratilova said. "They should have been here."

The sisters had attended a Los Angeles Lakers game and a fashion show in the city earlier in the week.

WTA officials weren't sure why the five absentees, who earned a combined $78 million prize money, didn't come.

"I don't know what everyone's situations were, but I would be disappointed if there were some that could have made it here and didn't," added Chris Evert who enjoyed a hypnotic rivalry with Navratilova spanning three decades. "That would be too bad.

GOOD EXCUSE

"But if you can't, you can't. Steffi could have jumped on her or (husband Andre) Agassi's private plane. I would hope you have a really good excuse if you didn't come."

Graf recently gave birth to their second child, a daughter, Jaz. Even though the German travels with Agassi on tour, she almost never makes public appearances to promote tennis.

"Steffi doesn't talk much," Navratilova. "She keeps to herself. I never really had a conversation with her. I think she's asked me about four questions in my life, so how can you have a conversation?

"She never really gave much of herself to anyone on the tour. She's not going to start now. She supports Andre, but even there she is in the background, in the corner and not on camera. That's how she is and that's okay."

Those in attendance included Evert, Billie Jean King, Navratilova, Tracy Austin, Martina Hingis, Jennifer Capriati, Kim Clijsters and this year's year-end world number one Justine Henin-Hardenne.


http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=sportsNews&storyID=401160&section=news

She needs to shut the hell up! :devil:
They had their reasons for not attending.
I wasn't aware that Venus, Serena, or Steffi
owed her a damn thing!

If I were Steffi I wouldn't talk to the bitch either!
Venus left to go back to Jupiter soon after the show.
Serena was still in town but if she didn't want to
be their irt is her perogative.

It's funny how the sisters aren't wanted by certain people and when they are gone, it's like 'how dare they' and 'who do they think they are'.

Definitely, the WTA needs them more
than V+S+S willever need them!

IMO, Martina is and has been jealous of
all three for various reasons.

irma
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:34 PM
I want to know what a good excuse is when a 1 month old baby and a 2 year old are not, especially when you know daddy is not at home too.

Maybe when you are death?

pReUrBrIyN
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:36 PM
:rolleyes: Martina, you fool.

Paneru
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:36 PM
I want to know what a good excuse is when a 1 month old baby and a 2 year old are not, especially when you know daddy is not at home too.

Maybe when you are death?

True!

However, she'd say, "babysitter".

SJW
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:37 PM
LOL she just had to take a swipe at Steffi especially

Linzi
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:37 PM
Sounds bitter to me.

Martian Willow
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:37 PM
Definitely, the WTA needs them more
than V+S+S willever need them!

...I don't think so... :confused:

Infiniti2001
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:38 PM
I don't care how much of a legend she is, but I am officially getting sick of her UGH. It's her choice to eat, sleep , and breathe , everything tennis--- but leave those who don't feel the same way the hell alone for crying out loud :fiery: :o :mad: :devil:

griffin
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:39 PM
She needs to shut the hell up! :devil:
They had their reasons for not attending.
I wasn't aware that Venus, Serena, or Steffi
owed her a damn thing!


It's not about what Martina thinks they owe HER, it's about what Martina thinks they owe the TOUR - at tour that has made them all very rich women.

Martina has always put a high priority on promoting women's tennis, and this is certainly not the first time she's commented about what she perceives as players not giving enough back.

Paneru
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:41 PM
...I don't think so... :confused:

I think so!
They needed the WTA before they became who and what they are as far as tennis is concerned. However, none of them need the WTA as much as the WTA needs them.

Ever wonder why certain people want V+S to let go
of the IW controversy....hmmm? ;)

irma
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:41 PM
True!

However, she'd say, "babysitter".

of course it's that easy :rolleyes:
I am glad Steffi is a responsable mom. Jaden and Jaz are lucky :D

treufreund
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:42 PM
Actually I agree 100% with her. Steffi is eccentric in her reclusiveness. I always liked her but there is something about her facial expressions and reclusiveness that come across very very cold. Not to mention Steffi's theatrics to turn the crowd against Hingis at the French. :fiery:

As far as the Williams sisters go, well, we all know they can't be bothered to support the tour. :rolleyes:

CapFan#1
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:42 PM
I think they all should have been there, save maybe Steffi with a new born and all. The Willies have benefited a lot from BJK and that was the least they could have done is come and show their support for BJK and the tour that pays them their fat pay checks. Even Cappy stayed on and attended and showed her support after her semi loss, and we all know the personal troubles she has had with BJK. Monica and ASV should have been there as well.

Paneru
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:43 PM
It's not about what Martina thinks they owe HER, it's about what Martina thinks they owe the TOUR - at tour that has made them all very rich women.

Martina has always put a high priority on promoting women's tennis, and this is certainly not the first time she's commented about what she perceives as players not giving enough back.

They maed theirselves with the help of coaches an others.
If they weren't the athletes they were and reached the highets they have, would the WTA give a rats ass about them? I think not!

Maybe Martina and the others should wat6ch and say what they do!
As they are accustom to running off at the mouth not giving a damn of what it's ramifications will be!

Paneru
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:48 PM
As far as the Williams sisters go, well, we all know they can't be bothered to support the tour. :rolleyes:

Damn right! :kiss:
All the shit they've been through on this tour and not once has the WTA ever come to their defense. Be careful of what you say and do and if not, don't be surprised when it comes back to bite you in the ass! :devil:

CapFan#1
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:49 PM
They maed theirselves with the help of coaches an others.
If they weren't the athletes they were and reached the highets they have, would the WTA give a rats ass about them? I think not!

Maybe Martina and the others should wat6ch and say what they do!
As they are accustom to running off at the mouth not giving a damn of what it's ramifications will be!


What ramifications??? :confused: How stupid! Martina and the rest are MATURE and respect the organization (WTA) and are humble enough to realize that they are ONLY 1 person in the histroy of the sport and that the sport is bigger than they are and that it is the RIGHT thing to do.... to give back to the sport which has given them SO MUCH.

alfajeffster
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:52 PM
Martina has a history of filling her mind with sour grapes and shooting her mouth off without really thinking through the consequences, but it's one of the things I like most about her- you never have to wait too long to figure out Martina's take on any given situation. Steffi Graf is the totally opposite. Many people still want to know what she thinks about lots of tennis-related subjects. She has always been a private person, and has admitted to not liking the spotlight for as long as I can remember watching her (since 1984 she's been my fav). She never said a word during the last 4 years of Martina's singles career about how Martina avoided Graf like the plague and virtually manipulated their head-to-head results so that it would end up a 9-9 tie. At what point in Graf's career did she ever pretend to be a spokeswoman for the WTA or champion of their causes and history. There are parallels between Margaret Court not showing up at these things too- neither tennis legend was ever deeply involved with WTA politics and pomp.

irma
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:53 PM
Actually I agree 100% with her. Steffi is eccentric in her reclusiveness. I always liked her but there is something about her facial expressions and reclusiveness that come across very very cold. Not to mention Steffi's theatrics to turn the crowd against Hingis at the French. :fiery:

As far as the Williams sisters go, well, we all know they can't be bothered to support the tour. :rolleyes:

you know I know understand why people always insulted steffi (even when it didn't make sense imho to call her cold since she was crying so much and certain rivals showed way less feelings on and off court then she did.) but when I see Justine I get a cold feeling over me too so I guess many felt that same way about Steffi too.

Paneru
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:55 PM
What ramifications??? :confused: How stupid! Martina and the rest are MATURE and respect the organization (WTA) and are humble enough to realize that they are ONLY 1 person in the histroy of the sport and that the sport is bigger than they are and that it is the RIGHT thing to do.... to give back to the sport which has given them SO MUCH.

Ramifications.

Oh, I forgot, it's the sisters that
are begging to be back at IW! :cool:

It's the sisters who are upset at not being
at this ceremony to honor a tour that has treated
them as inferior when they joined! :cool:

If the WTA wants respect they need to learn to give it.
The sisters have been treated like shit ever since joining this tour.
It is the sisters who names are used to promote certain events.
It's the lack of sisters that caused a %@% drop in USO ratings and over 40% drop in FO ratings.

Only thing stupid is you!

MLF
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:56 PM
They maed theirselves with the help of coaches an others.
If they weren't the athletes they were and reached the highets they have, would the WTA give a rats ass about them? I think not!



Looks like you've totally missed the point. If BJK and the early women's tennis tour pioneers hadn't taken such huge risks for equality for women in sport then none of these ladies would have achieved the high profiles and huge pay checks they currently enjoy / take for granted. I think if both Williams', Graf, Seles & Sanchez could have been there then it was poor form for them not to turn up. Lindsay's just back from surgery and managed to turn up. I think Martina's general comments about Steffi not giving much back to the tour were 100% spot on actually.

SJW
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:57 PM
Actually I agree 100% with her. Steffi is eccentric in her reclusiveness. I always liked her but there is something about her facial expressions and reclusiveness that come across very very cold. Not to mention Steffi's theatrics to turn the crowd against Hingis at the French. :fiery:

As far as the Williams sisters go, well, we all know they can't be bothered to support the tour. :rolleyes:

don't lets talk about behaviour turning the crowd against a player at the FO :kiss:

CapFan#1
Nov 10th, 2003, 04:58 PM
Ramifications.

Oh, I forgot, it's the sisters that
are begging to be back at IW! :cool:

It's the sisters who are upset at not being
at this ceremony to honor a tour that has treated
them as inferior when they joined! :cool:

If the WTA wants respect they need to learn to give it.
The sisters have been treated like shit ever since joining this tour.
It is the sisters who names are used to promote certain events.
It's the lack of sisters that caused a %@% drop in USO ratings and over 40% drop in FO ratings.

Only thing stupid is you!


The only people who hurt themselves were those who did not show up for the ceremony! That was the only ramification from this!

Paneru
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:01 PM
Looks like you've totally missed the point. If BJK and the early women's tennis tour pioneers hadn't taken such huge risks for equality for women in sport then none of these ladies would have achieved the high profiles and huge pay checks they currently enjoy / take for granted. I think if both Williams', Graf, Seles & Sanchez could have been there then it was poor form for them not to turn up. Lindsay's just back from surgery and managed to turn up. I think Martina's general comments about Steffi not giving much back to the tour were 100% spot on actually.

All honor to BJK and she knows how much
V+S respect her. They couldn't be there for their own reasons
as others and yet MS.Navratilova has the nerve to open her damn mouth!

Also, if you were treated as they've been by this tour since they became apart of it maybe you'd then have a different perspective!

Paneru
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:02 PM
The only people who hurt themselves were those who did not show up for the ceremony!

I wasn't aware of that,
care to explain? ;)

MLF
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:04 PM
I'm a fan of Venus Williams. I like Serena too but not as much, but I'm wondering how the WTA have treated them badly? At the end of the day the IW incident was due to a crowd full of pricks not the WTA tour.

Infiniti2001
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:06 PM
The only people who hurt themselves were those who did not show up for the ceremony! That was the only ramification from this!

O'DRAMA :rolleyes:

CapFan#1
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:09 PM
I wasn't aware of that,
care to explain? ;)


They missed out on a great celebration, on being part of an historical event, and they harmed their reputation in the process. Playing on the tour comes with responsibilities, it is in fact, a job. At your job, if they through a holiday party or recognition party, you may not want to go, but you have an obligation to attend. It shows respect for those who put $ in your pocket and those who you work with. Do you get it now??

Paneru
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:09 PM
I'm a fan of Venus Williams. I like Serena too but not as much, but I'm wondering how the WTA have treated them badly? At the end of the day the IW incident was due to a crowd full of pricks not the WTA tour.

Maybe it's not the WTA as much as people apart of the WTA but,
then it would be the WTA or parts of it seeing as how these people are part of it officals/organizers and players alike.

And yet,
what did the WTA do
to help the situation?

Trish101
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:09 PM
give me a break im not surprised at all. The sisters do what they wantr, when they want. They dont care about anybody else, of there fans. Im not surprised, thats all i will say. No More Comment.

griffin
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:12 PM
"O'DRAMA"?

Who's trying to make a federal case out of this? ;)

alfajeffster
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:13 PM
I'm a fan of Venus Williams. I like Serena too but not as much, but I'm wondering how the WTA have treated them badly? At the end of the day the IW incident was due to a crowd full of pricks not the WTA tour.

Not to change the color of this thread, but that Indian Wells incident could have happened anywhere. A crowd who spent good, hard-earned money and arranged their schedules to attend that match IN PRIME TIME TELEVISION, I might add, was informed 5 minutes before the match that it wasn't going to happen. This exacted the result, and many of those same people saw it as a Williams family affront and insult to them personally- kind of an in-your-face we call all the shots knock and the establishment and tennis fans in general, and Serena, unfortunately, felt the brunt of the fans anger in the final against Kim. If Steffi Graf would have behaved this way, she would have been just as roundly booed.

From all I have seen over the past 5 years, the WTA has bent over backwards to accommodate the Williams Sisters. In fact, the WTA pretty much does this for all the top players. Most people don't see it, because there is only room at the top for 1, and every top player has benefitted from the WTA.

Martian Willow
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:13 PM
Maybe it's not the WTA as much as people apart of the WTA but,
then it would be the WTA or parts of it seeing as how these people are part of it officals/organizers and players alike.

And yet,
what did the WTA do
to help the situation?

...can you please explain...clearly and concisely...what the fuck you are talking about...? :)

Infiniti2001
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:14 PM
"O'DRAMA"?

Who's trying to make a federal case out of this? ;)

loudmouth navratilova and all the others who want to crucify the absentees especially Williams *2 :p

Linzi
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:15 PM
I think the way they pull out of every tournament, left right and centre shows a complete lack of respect on their part. If they carry on like this, their fans will disappear.

esquímaux
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:15 PM
I smell sour grapes :eek:......not about this situation, but about the posters in this thread :ras:.......:angel:

lizchris
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:17 PM
Martina needs to make up her mind if she likes the Williams sisters or she doesn't. Sometimes she has nice things to say about them, but the other times, she has bad things to say abou them. I also don't like the title article. I noticed that she wasn't as mad a Steffi, Monica or Aranxta for not being there (Seftti just gave birth, so that is an excuse; I don't know about the other two) as she was at the sisters.

Did it ever occur to Martina and others that the sisters have been treated like shit ever since they started doing well on the tour, espcially by fans and commentators? I don't blame them for not going I would have done the same thing.

I'd be interested to see if the others who were there were as irked as Martina was.

Paneru
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:18 PM
They missed out on a great celebration, on being part of an historical event, and they harmed their reputation in the process. Playing on the tour comes with responsibilities, it is in fact, a job. At your job, if they through a holiday party or recognition party, you may not want to go, but you have an obligation to attend. It shows respect for those who put $ in your pocket and those who you work with. Do you get it now??

Hmmm...I don't think they care about missing some celebration seeing as how many people in the public conciousness actually know it was even happening.

Hammered it into what, exactly?
A couple hundred people see they are there and all of the sudden the public hates them! I don't think they give a damn about what anybody there would have to say about them in a negative light as that's all certain people see them in aways!

Funny, I thought that being a great athlete put $ in your pocket!
Guess not! If they weren't great athletes they'd still be getting the bucks? Can my sister sign up?

They had no obligation to go!
I wasn't aware attendance was mandatory!
Wasn't aware that this was a requirement under the "job" description.
How much will they be fined and how will they get at Steffi and Arantxa?

MLF
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:19 PM
Maybe it's not the WTA as much as people apart of the WTA but,
then it would be the WTA or parts of it seeing as how these people are part of it officals/organizers and players alike.

And yet,
what did the WTA do
to help the situation?


I don't mean to be rude to you but do I get a prize if I can work out what you are trying to say in that post?

What do you think the WTA should have done? How can they stop a crowd from booing after the event has happened? Blame the fans not the WTA. The Williams were not the first players to be booed that day and they certainly won't be the last. It was a nasty crowd in that day but there's no way you can say the WTA have treated Venus & Serena badly.

mishar
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:20 PM
Do y'all live in a world of total paranoia and hostility all the time?

I'm a huge fan of Venus and Serena and Monica, but i don't think Martina criticizing them means she's "hating" them or trying to "crucify" them. My God! She's uttering a criticism, she's always been outspoken, maybe it's wrong, maybe it's right, but no one is immune from criticism.

Paneru
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:22 PM
I think the way they pull out of every tournament, left right and centre shows a complete lack of respect on their part. If they carry on like this, their fans will disappear.

Did you find it respectfull of them to continue to use Venus' name to advertise at Philly after she withdrew? Was it respectful that they new Venus would be pulling out a week prior to the annoucement and yet continue to use her name?

I thought respect worked both ways!

Richie77
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:24 PM
Martina needs to make up her mind if she likes the Williams sisters or she doesn't. Sometimes she has nice things to say about them, but the other times, she has bad things to say abou them. I also don't like the title article. I noticed that she wasn't as mad a Steffi, Monica or Aranxta for not being there (Seftti just gave birth, so that is an excuse; I don't know about the other two) as she was at the sisters.

Did it ever occur to Martina and others that the sisters have been treated like shit ever since they started doing well on the tour, espcially by fans and commentators? I don't blame them for not going I would have done the same thing.

I'd be interested to see if the others who were there were as irked as Martina was.
Martina wasn't exactly treated all that friendly when she started doing well, either. Part of that had to do with the fact that she was always winning...which pretty much happens to every No. 1 player. Also, she was "overweight" (by society's standards) at the beginning of her career, and she got some potshots for that. In fact, Bud Collins...yes, the esteemed Bud Collins...once called her "The Great Wide Hope." :eek:

It happens to everyone...once Chris Evert started winning, she wasn't the cute little Cinderella anymore. And let's not even talk about Steffi Graf, who was treated abysmally bad in her career from beginning to end.

griffin
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:27 PM
Martina needs to make up her mind if she likes the Williams sisters or she doesn't. Sometimes she has nice things to say about them, but the other times, she has bad things to say abou them. I also don't like the title article. I noticed that she wasn't as mad a Steffi, Monica or Aranxta for not being there (Seftti just gave birth, so that is an excuse; I don't know about the other two) as she was at the sisters.


Who says she doesn't like them? She clearly disagrees with them on some things, but not thinking someone is perfect does not mean you dislike them (and vice versa).

Whether or not she realizes what V & S have gone through - it's not like Martina always received kind treatment from either the fans or the tour, either.

And jeeze, what mishar said.

funny, but didn't Chrissy say pretty much the same thing? I don't see anyone going after her thoat. Not that they should, but it is interesting :)

CapFan#1
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:28 PM
Hmmm...I don't think they care about missing some celebration seeing as how many people in the public conciousness actually know it was even happening.

Hammered it into what, exactly?
A couple hundred people see they are there and all of the sudden the public hates them! I don't think they give a damn about what anybody there would have to say about them in a negative light as that's all certain people see them in aways!

Funny, I thought that being a great athlete put $ in your pocket!
Guess not! If they weren't great athletes they'd still be getting the bucks? Can my sister sign up?

They had no obligation to go!
I wasn't aware attendance was mandatory!
Wasn't aware that this was a requirement under the "job" description.
How much will they be fined and how will they get at Steffi and Arantxa?


Yea, it was pretty obvious that didn't give a rat's ass about the celebration. You could be the greatest tennis player in the world ever, but if there are no tournies and no organization pushing for bigger prize money, than you get NOTHING in your pocket. Sure there may have not been a written rule for attending, but etiquette would dictate that you attend... but then again when did they ever pay attention to ettiquette?? And they wonder why their peers dont always get along with them??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:30 PM
Whatever. I thought the big saying was that no one is bigger than tennis? Well if venus and serena and monica and steffi and asv are not bigger than tennis then it doesnt matter if they showed up. It doesnt matter if they dont support the tour because tennis will go on because its bigger than they are. Well if thats the case everyone who says they should have been there should shut the f*ck up.

Paneru
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:31 PM
Who says she doesn't like them? She clearly disagrees with them on some things, but not thinking someone is perfect does not mean you dislike them (and vice versa).

Whether or not she realizes what V & S have gone through - it's not like Martina always received kind treatment from either the fans or the tour, either.

And jeeze, what mishar said.

funny, but didn't Chrissy say pretty much the same thing? I don't see anyone going after her thoat. Not that they should, but it is interesting :)

Thank You!

Also, Chrissy chooses her words wisely.
She said it was sad that others weren't their but didn't make it a point to critisize V&S or take a jab at Steffi for being reclusive and not talking much, which is simply her personality.

Spent

SJW
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:31 PM
but then again when did they ever pay attention to ettiquette??

you cannot be serious

you just left yourself WIDE open for bashing of Jennifer

Richie77
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:31 PM
Who says she doesn't like them? She clearly disagrees with them on some things, but not thinking someone is perfect does not mean you dislike them (and vice versa).

Whether or not she realizes what V & S have gone through - it's not like Martina always received kind treatment from either the fans or the tour, either.

And jeeze, what mishar said.

funny, but didn't Chrissy say pretty much the same thing? I don't see anyone going after her thoat. Not that they should, but it is interesting :)
great post :)

And nobody is yelling at Chrissie...maybe Chrissie still is the cute little Cinderella ;)

Paneru
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:31 PM
Whatever. I thought the big saying was that no one is bigger than tennis? Well if venus and serena and monica and steffi and asv are not bigger than tennis then it doesnt matter if they showed up. It doesnt matter if they dont support the tour because tennis will go on because its bigger than they are. Well if thats the case everyone who says they should have been there should shut the f*ck up.
:worship:

Infiniti2001
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:32 PM
Whatever. I thought the big saying was that no one is bigger than tennis? Well if venus and serena and monica and steffi and asv are not bigger than tennis then it doesnt matter if they showed up. It doesnt matter if they dont support the tour because tennis will go on because its bigger than they are. Well if thats the case everyone who says they should have been there should shut the f*ck up.


:worship: The truth is in your post :p

CapFan#1
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:33 PM
you cannot be serious

you just left yourself WIDE open for bashing of Jennifer


Oh no :eek: something new (NOT) from the usual suspects! I'm so scared. WHATEVER

Infiniti2001
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:35 PM
you cannot be serious

you just left yourself WIDE open for bashing of Jennifer


:lol: the nerve of a Jen fan mentioning the word etiquette :haha:

lizchris
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:35 PM
Who says she doesn't like them? She clearly disagrees with them on some things, but not thinking someone is perfect does not mean you dislike them (and vice versa).

Whether or not she realizes what V & S have gone through - it's not like Martina always received kind treatment from either the fans or the tour, either.

And jeeze, what mishar said.

funny, but didn't Chrissy say pretty much the same thing? I don't see anyone going after her thoat. Not that they should, but it is interesting :)

Chris, who is a known cirtic of the way Venus and Serena play tennis, didn't single anyone out; she made a general statement which is fine by me.

Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:36 PM
I think the way they pull out of every tournament, left right and centre shows a complete lack of respect on their part. If they carry on like this, their fans will disappear.

Trust me, their fans aren't going anywhere.

what gets me is the lot of you assuming the non attendes didn't have other plans lined up. How do you know what their schedule was and where they had to be before this was all planned. Also even if they didn't have plans the only obligations they have are to THEIR SPONSORS.

I also notice that no one bitched about monica or asv not being there.

lizchris
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:36 PM
Martina wasn't exactly treated all that friendly when she started doing well, either. Part of that had to do with the fact that she was always winning...which pretty much happens to every No. 1 player. Also, she was "overweight" (by society's standards) at the beginning of her career, and she got some potshots for that. In fact, Bud Collins...yes, the esteemed Bud Collins...once called her "The Great Wide Hope." :eek:

It happens to everyone...once Chris Evert started winning, she wasn't the cute little Cinderella anymore. And let's not even talk about Steffi Graf, who was treated abysmally bad in her career from beginning to end.

I agree with you on Steffi except for one thing; I don't ever remember he being booed when she played in her home country.

CapFan#1
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:38 PM
Trust me, their fans aren't going anywhere.

what gets me is the lot of you assuming the non attendes didn't have other plans lined up. How do you know what their schedule was and where they had to be before this was all planned. Also even if they didn't have plans the only obligations they have are to THEIR SPONSORS.

I also notice that no one bitched about monica or asv not being there.


Monica and ASV should have been there as well, for sure. The only one with a plausible excuse was Steffi, has just gave birth and has a new born and a toddler at home.

mishar
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:39 PM
I also want to say, Venus and Serena have been treated really badly by some members of the media, and some fans, but they have not been mistreated by the WTA. Billie Jean King has been their constant champion and supporter. That doesn't mean they needed to go last night, but let's not get carried away.

SJW
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:39 PM
Oh no :eek: something new (NOT) from the usual suspects! I'm so scared. WHATEVER

OMG see how you lie

i am a Jennifer fan you idiot

Paneru
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:40 PM
Monica and ASV should have been there as well, for sure. The only one with a plausible excuse was Steffi, has just gave birth and has a new born and a toddler at home.

Wasn't aware that you were the authority on what is or isn't a
"plausible" excuse! :p

I'm done, it's tired now.

CapFan#1
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:41 PM
OMG see how you lie

i am a Jennifer fan you idiot


Hey, I know you ar a Jen fan! :worship: The comment wasn't directed at you, but the usual suspects who will post bogus shit about Jen no matter wether I post or not

mishar
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:41 PM
Monica was treated awfully when she was #1 - and talk about the WTA treating someone badly, they treated her awfully after she was stabbed. But she has always been very responsible about promoting the tour.
If the article focuses on V&S, it's partly because they were in LA earlier this week, and also because they are the best two players in the world (which you cannot say of the other former #1s)

alfajeffster
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:42 PM
I also want to say, Venus and Serena have been treated really badly by some members of the media, and some fans, but they have not been mistreated by the WTA. Billie Jean King has been their constant champion and supporter. That doesn't mean they needed to go last night, but let's not get carried away.

And if you look at how many tributes and gala dinners there have been in the past 20 years in honor of Billie Jean King, you get a better picture of how some players just don't fit it into their schedule AGAIN.

Richie77
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:42 PM
I agree with you on Steffi except for one thing; I don't ever remember he being booed when she played in her home country.
True. I was speaking in general.

CapFan#1
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:43 PM
Wasn't aware that you were the authority on what is or isn't a
"plausible" excuse! :p

I'm done, it's tired now.


I am not the authority, I just hve COMMON SENSE :devil:

AND THANK GOD YOU ARE DONE!

lizchris
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:44 PM
Monica was treated awfully when she was #1 - and talk about the WTA treating someone badly, they treated her awfully after she was stabbed. But she has always been very responsible about promoting the tour.
If the article focuses on V&S, it's partly because they were in LA earlier this week, and also because they are the best two players in the world (which you cannot say of the other former #1s)

Tracy Austin was born and raised in the LA area and still lives there wiht her husband and three sons. I wonder if Martina would have been inked if she didn't show up.

Tratree
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:45 PM
I think they all should have been there, barring illness or extreme circumstances. I am a HUGE Steffi fan, but she should have been there, 5-week-old or not. I'm sure she has plenty of help or grandparents who could watch her kids for a few hours. Steffi lives in Las Vegas. It takes approximately 45 minutes to fly from Vegas to LA. She could have been gone a total of 4 hours max if she wanted to be there. Serena was in the building earlier in the day and didnt' show up. Venus was there last week and decided not to be there. Monica doesn't seem to have any pressing engagements at the moment. She should have been there. Aranxta lives the farthest away, but she still should have made it.

They announced all week about how when Chris Evert won the YEC like 20 years ago or something that she won a whopping $25,000. These ladies honored yesterday paved the way for those absentees to be millionares. They should show some respect. I don't care how reclusive, mad, whatever you are....you should be there to support the game that gave so much to you. I am by no means a Billie Jean King fan, but even I got emotional with the ceremony and felt she was due some respect and honor and she got it from those there, including Jennifer. Those who couldn't attend should have at least sent a message or something, but instead it was obvious none of them cared.

Richie77
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:46 PM
Tracy Austin was born and raised in the LA area and still lives there wiht her husband and three sons. I wonder if Martina would have been inked if she didn't show up.
Probably yes. Same for Lindsay, who is also an L.A. native.

bandabou
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:47 PM
In a sense Martina is right. This was a big occasion and Venus and Serena should have been there.

But if they didnīt attend, Iīm sure they had a valid reason.

alfajeffster
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:48 PM
In a sense Martina is right. This was a big occasion and Venus and Serena should have been there.

But if they didnīt attend, Iīm sure they had a valid reason.

Probably already returned all the on-loan fashions from the show last week, and couldn't come up with anything to wear, and didn't want to shock the crowd by showing up naked. :lol:

CapFan#1
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:50 PM
I think they all should have been there, barring illness or extreme circumstances. I am a HUGE Steffi fan, but she should have been there, 5-week-old or not. I'm sure she has plenty of help or grandparents who could watch her kids for a few hours. Steffi lives in Las Vegas. It takes approximately 45 minutes to fly from Vegas to LA. She could have been gone a total of 4 hours max if she wanted to be there. Serena was in the building earlier in the day and didnt' show up. Venus was there last week and decided not to be there. Monica doesn't seem to have any pressing engagements at the moment. She should have been there. Aranxta lives the farthest away, but she still should have made it.

They announced all week about how when Chris Evert won the YEC like 20 years ago or something that she won a whopping $25,000. These ladies honored yesterday paved the way for those absentees to be millionares. They should show some respect. I don't care how reclusive, mad, whatever you are....you should be there to support the game that gave so much to you. I am by no means a Billie Jean King fan, but even I got emotional with the ceremony and felt she was due some respect and honor and she got it from those there, including Jennifer. Those who couldn't attend should have at least sent a message or something, but instead it was obvious none of them cared.

NOW THAT IS THE TRUTH!!!! :worship: :worship: Serena was in the building that day.. now that is shameful!!! She sure showed up in full force to launch HER clothing line at the GALA fashion show, but couldnt be bothered to show up for this!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: It is all about respect!

griffin
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:52 PM
Probably already returned all the on-loan fashions from the show last week, and couldn't come up with anything to wear, and didn't want to shock the crowd by showing up naked. :lol:

All the more reaons for me to be disappointed that they weren't there ;)

bandabou
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:53 PM
Probably already returned all the on-loan fashions from the show last week, and couldn't come up with anything to wear, and didn't want to shock the crowd by showing up naked. :lol:

Hahhaa.....me donīt think so. With ALL their money?! But they need to start working on their PR and show more dedication to the tour.

Linzi
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:54 PM
NOW THAT IS THE TRUTH!!!! :worship: :worship: Serena was in the building that day.. now that is shameful!!! She sure showed up in full force to launch HER clothing line at the GALA fashion show, but couldnt be bothered to show up for this!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: It is all about respect!
OMG that day!!!!!! That is what u call taking total and utter disrespect for BJK esp.

lizchris
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:55 PM
Hahhaa.....me donīt think so. With ALL their money?! But they need to start working on their PR and show more dedication to the tour.

I agree they should start playing mroe tournaments, but if the tennis world doesn't appreaciate them (and they don't), then why should they go the extra mile?

CapFan#1
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:57 PM
OMG that day!!!!!! That is what u call taking total and utter disrespect for BJK esp.


I know!!! And Martina and BJK are close, if Martina is saying something about this, it is probably because BJK is disappointed and said something. Maybe it isn't a foregone conclusion who is :lol: gonna get selected for the Olympics after all......

SJW
Nov 10th, 2003, 05:57 PM
well this year they couldn't play more

and to be honest, when it comes down to their bodies and playing 25 tournaments a year, there is no competition

lizchris
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:01 PM
I know!!! And Martina and BJK are close, if Martina is saying something about this, it is probably because BJK is disappointed and said something. Maybe it isn't a foregone conclusion who is :lol: gonna get selected for the Olympics after all......


Why shouls the sisters care, especialy Venus, she already has a gold medal in singles. Captiati probably isn't eligible, Lindsay is probably still mad at BJK, so she may be forced to pick Serena to play singles.

tennischick
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:01 PM
i admire Martina's commitment to and passion for the sport and i agree that some players could have shown up to show their support if they cared for the sport and not just for the money. but her attack on Steffi seems unecessarily mean-spirited and spiteful.

irma
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:04 PM
Maybe Steffi didn't want to go either. She was never a fan of the wta and just liked to play tennis. the wta was also never a fan of her so it's better that they split for good;)

Linzi
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:04 PM
The attack on the Williams Sisters aint personal...the one on Graf is. So what if she dont speak, big deal, u wud have thought she would have got over it already.

lizchris
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:09 PM
The attack on the Williams Sisters aint personal...the one on Graf is. So what if she dont speak, big deal, u wud have thought she would have got over it already.

Steffi alwways struck me as someone who is a loner. If I am not mistaken, she has few or no friends on the tour. Even at the USO, she doesn't even sit in a private box with other people, which for a fellow loner, even I find that a little strange. She is always going to be called aloof or unfriendly, when in actuality, she is probably very shy.

Linzi
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:10 PM
Thats the way she is though. Why does Martina N feel the need to keep bringing it up. Its her life she can do what she wants with it.

irma
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:11 PM
it's hard when the love of your life doesn't even want to talk with you.

lizchris
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:12 PM
it's hard when the love of your life doesn't even want to talk with you.

Huh?

irma
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:13 PM
I think she has a little crush on steffi what other reason would there be for openly bashing her (steffi') love life?

SJW
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:14 PM
:haha: @ Irma

you are so bad!

lizchris
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:16 PM
I think she has a little crush on steffi what other reason would there be for openly bashing her (steffi') love life?

Well, if fellow loner Steffi, is straight (like me), she wouldn't have recripocated (I think that is the right word).

DA FOREHAND
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:17 PM
The more Martina Nav. remains in the spotlight(mic firmly in hand) the more she whittles away at the awe and respect I once had for her, especially when she spits the pits of her sour grapes in regards to Steffi. Too transparent.

"Not to change the color of this thread, but that Indian Wells incident could have happened anywhere. A crowd who spent good, hard-earned money and arranged their schedules to attend that match IN PRIME TIME TELEVISION, I might add, was informed 5 minutes before the match that it wasn't going to happen. This exacted the result, and many of those same people saw it as a Williams family affront and insult to them personally- kind of an in-your-face we call all the shots knock and the establishment and tennis fans in general, and Serena, unfortunately, felt the brunt of the fans anger in the final against Kim. If Steffi Graf would have behaved this way, she would have been just as roundly booed." :mad:

B.S. a player defaulting a match 5mins or an hr. before is nothing new. That crowd and to a lessor extent(?) have had a bias and resentment of Venus and Serena for sometime now, and this was a chance for them to vent. They showed thier true colors by relentlessly booing a 17yr old for simply doing her job, and for anyone to try and excuse away thier actions is simply ................. :tape: :tape: :tape:

irma
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:17 PM
no and that's what hurts Martina. I mean she didn's start to follow Nav around the tour but that annoying bald Andre;)

lizchris
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:25 PM
no and that's what hurts Martina. I mean she didn's start to follow Nav around the tour but that annoying bald Andre;)

Didn't she date a race car drive before she dated Andre?

irma
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:25 PM
yes

JLDementieva
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:30 PM
I have always disliked Navratilova because of her negative comments towards Steffi. Yeah Martina's a tennis legend, but even legends needs to shut up once in a while!

bandabou
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:36 PM
Irma, you are BADDER than I thought!! :lol:

Cariaoke
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:37 PM
Irma :bowdown: :tape:

alfajeffster
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:38 PM
B.S. a player defaulting a match 5mins or an hr. before is nothing new. That crowd and to a lessor extent(?) have had a bias and resentment of Venus and Serena for sometime now, and this was a chance for them to vent. They showed thier true colors by relentlessly booing a 17yr old for simply doing her job, and for anyone to try and excuse away thier actions is simply ................. :tape: :tape: :tape:

I didn't really want to get into that argument, but since you brought it up ( :lol: ), the crowd at Indian Wells was actually very supportive of Serena's first big win there against Steffi Graf. I don't think the crowd developed a bias and resentment against Serena or Venus- I think they had a definite attitude about how they handled the whole situation. Richard Williams had for months prior to this match been making derrogatory statements about the WTA tour, and saying it should be "the Williams WTA Tour", and things like "they [ESPN] should pay us", and then to go out and pull the plug on the first ESPN prime time women's singles match just 5 minutes before- just a little too much to expect the crowd to be fair. I agree- they were horrible, and what an awful thing for a 17 year old to have to go through. I for one am very glad that the sisters have grown away from Richard's influence on their careers and developed into mature, responsible young champions.

Joseosu19
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:43 PM
In an article posted in another thread it said Serena was busy with lessons, Monica was in Florida rehabbing her foot, and Arantxa had a prior commercial engagement in Europe and she didn't find out about this until after her plans in Europe were made. It also said Steffi didn't find out about the ceremony until a few days in advance.

DA FOREHAND
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:46 PM
I don't think they've grown away from him at all. They always give him his propers(and he deserves them) and maintain that he is thier coach.

The Indian Wells tournament dropped the ball in handling the default. Venus' obligation it to try and be fit for play, from what I've heard her say she tried to wait til the last min. in hopes that the situation would get better it didn't. She informed the director and the rest is history. I guess we should be happy that we live in diff. times as I'm sure that crowd would liked to have taken the three of them tied them to a tree and give them fourty lashes.

I'm sorry(not really)but there is no excuse for thier disgusting actions.

CapFan#1
Nov 10th, 2003, 06:46 PM
In an article posted in another thread it said Serena was busy with lessons, Monica was in Florida rehabbing her foot, and Arantxa had a prior commercial engagement in Europe and she didn't find out about this until after her plans in Europe were made. It also said Steffi didn't find out about the ceremony until a few days in advance.


That is NOT the full story... Here is the FULL story...


Graf, Seles, Sanchez, Williamses skip historic ceremony
Evert: No-shows better have 'really a good excuse;' Navratilova: Venus and Serena 'should have been here,' Steffi never gave much to anyone on tour

By Matthew Cronin
********************


Susan Mullane/
Camerawork USA
FROM THE WTA CHAMPIONSHIPS IN LA – On a day when Amelie Mauresmo showed her No. 1 potential by shocking top-ranked Justine Henin-Hardenne 7-6 (7-2) 3-6 6-3 in the semi-finals of the Bank of America WTA Championships and Kim Clijsters continued to punch the clock in an admirable way by knocking out Jennifer Capriati 4-6 6-4 6-0, there were five notable absences from the WTA's 30th Anniversary Celebration.

A harrowing drum roll please for those women who came up with a reason not to thank Billie Jean King, the other original eight founding members of the tour and every other woman of note before them who made them multi-millionaires: Steffi Graf, Monica Seles, Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario, Venus Williams and Serena Williams.

The combined prize money of the Fab Five no-shows? About $78 million and that's not counting off court earnings they banked as a result of their tennis stardom. Their off court-combined earnings must be in the $250 million range.

"I don't know what everyone's situations were, but I would be disappointed if there were some that could have made it here and didn't," said former No. 1 Chris Evert, who did show up. "That would be too bad. But if you can't, you can't. But it would have been nice. Steffi could have jumped on her or [Andre's] private plane. I would hope you have a really good excuse if you didn't come."

Martina Navratilova said that the Williamses should have showed up.

"They would have liked it if they would have come and be more part of the game and the evolution of it," Navratilova said. "You're part of the history and the present and future. It's too bad they don't make it. I know Serena is in town. I don't know where Venus is. They should have been here."

There were eight former No. 1s who did walk on court including Evert, King, Navratilova, Tracy Austin, Jennifer Capriati, Martina Hingis, Clijsters and Henin-Hardenne.

"It's a really special time for women's tennis," said King. "It was great to see so many off the former No. 1 players here. I think today's generation of players will continue to build on what we started."
Possibly, but when two of this generation's primary attractions – Serena and Venus – don't show, and when two of the tour's most popular players (Graf and Seles) don't attend, how are fans supposed to put much importance into the WTA Tour's history, meaning or future?

PEANUTS TO MEGAMILLIONS
When King gets on court and speaks about how they used to play for peanuts and that she earned $119,000 at the end of 1972 and Serena topped $3.9 million last year due to the former players commitment to grow the sport, what are fans supposed to think about today's stars being absent?

Here's what: That Serena – who lives in LA – is too busy taking acting lessons or designing dresses; or that interior decorator Venus had to run back to Florida to sketch out an expanded dining room for a wealthy Boca Raton doctor; or that super-parent Steffi is too overwhelmed with her toddler and new baby not to be able to take pack them up, skip over from Las Vegas and find a babysitter for a few hours; or that Monica has too may laps to swim at home in Florida while rehabbing her feet; or that Arantxa is too wrapped up with her commercial obligations in Europe.

They are saying that tennis doesn't matter much. As Evert implied, if someone is ill or is having a very dicey personal situation that need to take care of, they are excused.

Apparently, Sanchez already had a prior engagement and did know until a month ago. One source said that Graf didn't know up until a few days ago, while another said she was informed in sufficient time and said no.

But the Williamses had time to take in a Laker game last Sunday and put on a fashion show last Monday.

"The absence of the Williams sisters is very disappointing," Navratilova said. I wish they would play more. The tour needs them."

The last time we saw Seles in September, she was happy and relaxed with little on her plate. Graf is around the sport constantly and does nothing to help promote it.

Sure, she's a little shy and wants to have a private family life that has nothing to do with tennis. Everyone respects that. But after being retired for more than four years and not having to work due to her on-court success, can't she give a little bit back to the sport once in a while?

The "I have two kids" excuse simply won't cut it. There are millions of parents who do and assuredly a few of them were at the Staples Center on Sunday. Many of those parents, if not most of them, have traveled with young children and have hired babysitters – especially when it came time to pay homage to the company that paid their bills.

But no Steffi on Sunday.

"Steffi doesn't talk much," Navratilova. "She keeps to herself. I never really had a conversation with her. I think she's asked me about four questions in my life, so how can you have a conversation? She never really gave much of herself to anyone on the tour. She's not going to start now. She supports Andre, but even there she is in the background, in the corner and not on camera. That's how she is and that's okay."

ATTENDANCE SUFFERS
Siggi Bucher
Yes, the tour is relatively successful compared to other women's sports, but despite increased attendance this week, the Staples Center has not been sold out. In fact, it has yet to be filled to its capacity of 20,000 fans. Maybe no non-Slam tournament can pull in that many fans, but Sunday's semis featured four great players and should have brought in more than 8,828 fans and couldn't. That's not a fact that any No. 1 can ignore.

If the tour had been able to promote the absent five's appearance on Sunday afternoon, it's probable that the tournament could have sold another couple thousand tickets. Steffi, Monica and Arantxa would have pulled in the 30-year-old to 45-year-old crowds and Serena and Venus would have attracted the kids and the twenty-somethings.

As Navratiliova said, "The biggest progress was made in the first 10 years. The last 15 years or so has been pretty much the same. It's been stagnating. That's the problem. The evolution of the product has stopped. The play hasn't stopped. It's never been better, but the structure needs to be revamped."

So do some people's sense of commitment.

Spirit
Nov 10th, 2003, 08:49 PM
Where was Monica??
Where was Arantxa??

Upstairs playing XBOX "Topspin."

fammmmedspin
Nov 10th, 2003, 09:17 PM
The Eurosport commentators made the same point. The ceremony was considerably weakened because so many of the greats didn't attend. Court would have been good but it was a long way. Steffi was greatly missed but obviously would have had unknown baby problems.ASV was half a day away by plane. where was Monica? She clearly deserved to be there and was clearly missed. Oddest of all where were the Williams sisters? You could see why they might not want to appear in public yet but Serena appeared in the same place with the other players wearing a black dress that looked like a nightie only days before which was pretty odd if she was in mourning again or injured days later. Not going when you were actually there was decidedly odd. They really do need some better advisers - you either avoid the whole thing which people will understand or if you feel up to it you do what the tour and the fans deserve and turn up. Turning up for the fashion, smiling at the cameras and then going home is what I think Martina N is peeved by.

ali
Nov 10th, 2003, 09:18 PM
Thank You!

Also, Chrissy chooses her words wisely.
She said it was sad that others weren't their but didn't make it a point to critisize V&S or take a jab at Steffi for being reclusive and not talking much, which is simply her personality.

Spent

She might have made a general statement, but why did she quantify it with something about Steffi getting on her private jet??

Why only Steffi? Can Monica, ASV and the Williams sisters not afford a private jet too?

I think of all of the comments, Steffi came off the worst, yet she was probably the one with the best excuse! :rolleyes:

Knizzle
Nov 10th, 2003, 09:21 PM
I'm sick of people saying the WTA pays Venus and Serena's fat paychecks. First of all, these paychecks are coming from sponsors of tournaments. BJK organized the WTA and I doubt that she and whoever helped her had the pocket money to fund all these tournaments nor do they today. Furthermore, Venus and Serena had to show up and win at these tournaments to get ANY money they earned on tour. Last time I checked the WTA didn't give any free handouts. If so, let me know I will send my sister up there to get a free million dollar check for doing absolutely nothing. Venus and Serena EARNED any money they've gotten from the WTA. These tournaments are making 100 times what they are paying Venus and Serena for participating in the tournaments. The players are the ones really getting ripped off, NOT the tournaments.

Also, if Nav doesn't know why anyone wasn't there, she shouldn't criticize them. If she knew exactly why there weren't there and why they decided not to come that would be a different story, but she clearly doesn't

griffin
Nov 10th, 2003, 09:34 PM
Kabuke - if you read carefully, Chrissy DID take a shot at Steffi. That quote about Steffi could have taken a jet was from Chris and not Martina. Martina just said she never really talked to Steffi and that she never really got involved in promoting the tour.

Knizzle, you're missing the point. Yes, the money comes from tournament sponsors, and yes, the women win it - earn it - on court. But those sponsorships, those opportunites didn't just appear by magic.

Knizzle
Nov 10th, 2003, 09:39 PM
Kabuke - if you read carefully, Chrissy DID take a shot at Steffi. That quote about Steffi could have taken a jet was from Chris and not Martina. Martina just said she never really talked to Steffi and that she never really got involved in promoting the tour.

Knizzle, you're missing the point. Yes, the money comes from tournament sponsors, and yes, the women win it - earn it - on court. But those sponsorships, those opportunites didn't just appear by magic.

Griffin, I understand that, but Venus and Serena have had to work hard for that money and like I said, more money is being made off of them then they could ever dream of earning from the WTA. They are not indentured servants to the WTA. The players are self-employed. The players do a ton of extracurriculars for the tour, much of which we don't see.

V&SGotItGoingOn
Nov 10th, 2003, 09:45 PM
What pisses me off is not that Martina N. expressed her opinion, but that she clearly condemned the Williams sisters and Steffi for not being there, but made no comment about Monica or Arantxa. Is it because she likes these two more? Or did they talk to her in the locker room more, so she won't publicly put them down for not supporting the tour. I think Martina likes to have the spotlight on her. Chris Evert also bugged me with the comment about Steffi jumping on a jet or whatever, keep these comments to yourself. One thing, Steffi probably has heard or noticed Martina N. say things in the locker room or elsewhere that have bugged her and she never complains about them to the media. I can't understand why Martina feels she is in a position to judge Steffi for not giving enough to other players.

CapFan#1
Nov 10th, 2003, 09:47 PM
I still say if you are in the building that day to attend a player brunch (Serena) than you should have brought your ass to the ceremony.

Knizzle
Nov 10th, 2003, 09:50 PM
I still say if you are in the building that day to attend a player brunch (Serena) than you should have brought your ass to the ceremony.

Some people have previous engagements. You don't know why she wasn't there.

CapFan#1
Nov 10th, 2003, 09:54 PM
:Some people have previous engagements. You don't know why she wasn't there.


Like the other players there said, if it wasnt some kind of emergency, she should have been there... She was obviously in contact with the WTA eneogh to plan HER FASHION SHOW for the Gala, but couldn't be bothered to show up for the ceremony??? :confused: :rolleyes: This was an historic event, marking the 30th annv. of the tour, which without the exsistence of, Serena would be out of her job....

Knizzle
Nov 10th, 2003, 10:01 PM
:


Like the other players there said, if it wasnt some kind of emergency, she should have been there... She was obviously in contact with the WTA eneogh to plan HER FASHION SHOW for the Gala, but couldn't be bothered to show up for the ceremony??? :confused: :rolleyes: This was an historic event, marking the 30th annv. of the tour, which without the exsistence of, Serena would be out of her job....

So would the thousands of other players, but were they there also?? It was a tribute to former #1's. Serena just happened to be good enough to be one of those. Would Jennifer have been there if she didn't play the champs, don't lie.

Rocketta
Nov 10th, 2003, 10:01 PM
This topic is so :zzz:

Martina will get over it and so will all of you!

Maybe Serena couldn't go to the ceramony at night that is why she showed up to the brunch? :confused:

say what there is another possibility besides that she was rude and just doesn't care? Nah! :rolleyes:

Oh and where is the condemnation for Monica or Arantxa? They're healty, wealthy adults. Who cares if they are a days travel away. It didn't stop them showing up to the US Open or any other tournaments did it?

I submit that Serena and Venus don't care about any of those opinions. So Martina can keep on wasting her breath its certainly not going to change anything that Venus or Serena does.

Fyndh0rnElf
Nov 10th, 2003, 10:03 PM
I don't care how much of a legend she is, but I am officially getting sick of her UGH. It's her choice to eat, sleep , and breathe , everything tennis--- but leave those who don't feel the same way the hell alone for crying out loud :fiery: :o :mad: :devil:

It's not the others' fault that they aren't obsessed with tennis like YOU MARTINA. THEY GOT OVER IT. On the other hand YOU JUST WON'T GO AWAY!! :armed:

Let them live their lives. If ASV didn't show up it was because she really couldn't. Steffi just doesn't give a damn about tennis. But Monica and Venus and Serena could have showed up. Not because they owe something but because it would be nice

Ballbuster
Nov 10th, 2003, 10:07 PM
I'm glad Venus and Serena UPStaged the Tour. Koodoos to Steffi and Monica too.

They know they are larger than the WTA.

Knizzle
Nov 10th, 2003, 10:08 PM
I would have accepted this if it came from BJK who is in contact with the sisters (especially Venus) quite often. It's just so obvious that Nav doesn't know what she is talking about. BJK obviously shows respect and kindness to the sisters which is why she is a trusted friend/advisor for them. It seems like she actually took the time to get to know the sisters and have gained their respect. That's the way things work in the REAL world, but on the tour somehow they seem to think they own you just because you are playing on the WTA Tour.

Seenus
Nov 10th, 2003, 10:15 PM
Nav understands that the event would have got more news coverage and much more attention if the Sisters were present. The other no shows were not particularly important.
That is the point she is trying to make.
Please understand her frustration.

*JR*
Nov 10th, 2003, 10:18 PM
There's a delicious irony going on in LA. The Martina free of all controversy is named Hingis! :lol:

Jarrett
Nov 10th, 2003, 10:28 PM
It's not about what Martina thinks they owe HER, it's about what Martina thinks they owe the TOUR - at tour that has made them all very rich women.

Martina has always put a high priority on promoting women's tennis, and this is certainly not the first time she's commented about what she perceives as players not giving enough back.

Yeah exactly. They don't owe Martina anything, they owe the tour everything. I really wonder where Monica was. :(

barmaid
Nov 10th, 2003, 10:29 PM
Martina has always put a high priority on promoting women's tennis, and this is certainly not the first time she's commented about what she perceives as players not giving enough back.[/QUOTE]





griffin is right....its all about "giving back" something to the sport that 1. Made you famous :hearts: 2. Made you wealthly :cool: 3. Made you a "tennis star". :worship:
Both Billie Jean King and Martina Navratilova sacrificed much to enhance the sport of tennis, they have promoted the sport they loved and the rest of the WTA need to acknowledge both their contributions and what better time than the 30th Anniversary. To ignore this event by not showing up is a "slap in the face" to these legends but I'll tell you....in their absence they have reduced their stature of respectibility and have become very small and selfish people !! :mad: Boo! Hiss! :eek:


barmaid :wavey:

darrinbaker00
Nov 10th, 2003, 10:35 PM
Steffi was the only one of the five who had a legitimate excuse for not being there; Arantxa, Monica and ESPECIALLY Venus and Serena should have been there. I say ESPECIALLY Venus and Serena because they were both in L.A. earlier in the week. I love the sisters to death, but sometimes they do things that are in bad form, and this was one of those times. ;)

gentenaire
Nov 10th, 2003, 10:57 PM
I'm sick of people saying the WTA pays Venus and Serena's fat paychecks. First of all, these paychecks are coming from sponsors of tournaments. BJK organized the WTA and I doubt that she and whoever helped her had the pocket money to fund all these tournaments nor do they today. Furthermore, Venus and Serena had to show up and win at these tournaments to get ANY money they earned on tour. Last time I checked the WTA didn't give any free handouts. If so, let me know I will send my sister up there to get a free million dollar check for doing absolutely nothing. Venus and Serena EARNED any money they've gotten from the WTA. These tournaments are making 100 times what they are paying Venus and Serena for participating in the tournaments. The players are the ones really getting ripped off, NOT the tournaments.

Also, if Nav doesn't know why anyone wasn't there, she shouldn't criticize them. If she knew exactly why there weren't there and why they decided not to come that would be a different story, but she clearly doesn't

What if Venus and Serena had chosen to play badminton instead of tennis? Just imagine that they were just as dominant in badminton, worked just as hard, were just as determined, etc. Same work, completely different pay check!
Tennis is about the only sport I can think of where the women's competition is equal (or almost) to the men's. That is not the work of V & S, or the tournament sponsors. What BJK did cannot be underestimated, the WTA tour is something unique!

Diya
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:10 PM
I think Martina N. is right. Steffi , Venus and Serena are 'selfish' players who have never really given anything back to the game that has made them what they are today :rolleyes:

Knizzle
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:12 PM
I think Martina N. is right. Steffi , Venus and Serena are 'selfish' players who have never really given anything back to the game that has made them what they are today :rolleyes:

What has Jennifer given back??

Rocketta
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:16 PM
What has Jennifer given back??

much lip! A few choice Curse Choice words! :)

:haha:

Knizzle
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:17 PM
much lip!

:haha:

LOL, me and Infiniti are having a talk about all this right now on MSN. You should join us. ;)

Rocketta
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:18 PM
LOL, me and Infiniti are having a talk about all this right now on MSN.

opps I added to my post! ;)

Sam L
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:18 PM
It's not about what Martina thinks they owe HER, it's about what Martina thinks they owe the TOUR - at tour that has made them all very rich women.

Martina has always put a high priority on promoting women's tennis, and this is certainly not the first time she's commented about what she perceives as players not giving enough back.
Go griffin. Could not have put it better myself. And it's funny how some fans are getting so defensive.

The bottomline is that you need to ask yourselves where will your favorites be if it weren't for the WTA Tour and those created the tour (Billie Jean and Co.)

Some people are just soo ungrateful.

Rocketta
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:18 PM
I'm sorry that was such a set-up if I ever saw one! :tape:

Knizzle
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:20 PM
opps I added to my post! ;)

I added to mine also!!

Rocketta
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:20 PM
So let me get this straight.

If you didn't show up to this 30 year thing. You don't appreciate the WTA and all that BJK, did for it. If you did show then you do and give back to the WTA and promote it.

It doesn't matter what you have done all year, everything depended on this one event.

:yeah: Yeah Right!

:rolleyes:

Veritas
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:21 PM
Where was Monica??
Where was Arantxa??

Monica was still nursing an injured foot, I believe. I don't think she would've wanted to hobble into the stadium with crutches while the others swan over the applause and presentations.

As for Arantxa, I'm not too sure. I would've loved to see her and Monica there, as I believe out of the the other 8 no.1s who were there in LA, those two were the nicest and lovable personalities on court. They were the exact reasons why I got tired of the boring, whoopeedoodlewhee ATP and switched my attention to the WTA.

I think that it's a shame Vee, Baby Girl, Monica and Bumble Bee (nickname for Arantxa) weren't there in LA. If they didn't go simply because they didn't want to, then I'd completely understand, after all, it's their choice and no one has the right to browbeat them and force them to come.

Also, what exactly has the WTA given these stars? These champions got to where they are today because of their hard work. They put the efforts in to win the trophies. They had the talent to achieve fame and recognition. The WTA was just there for them to participate as members so they can compete with others. Are you people telling me that the organisation was solely responsible for handing over GS trophies to these ladies? PUH-LEEZE!

If the WTA really cared about them, then they would've interfered at the right moment in their career. Where were they when Monica was nursing an injury and that thing (the psychotic German) was released from having to serve its sentence in jail? And what about the racial abuse Venus and Serena suffered early in their career? Did the WTA start implementing some rules on the behaviour of crowds? And what about poor Arantxa who for so long has suffered from the barbaric behaviour of those Gallic brainiacs at the RG? Did the WTA take her feelings into consideration and do something remotely significant to make Arantxa's playing experience there a little more bearable?

And please, that argument of "these players wouldn't have been so famous if it hadn't been for the WTA" is old and selfish. These players made their career through their own efforts. The WTA was just a leway. Vee, Baby Girl, Monica and Bumble Bee owe them nothing. The Organisation has enough stars to exploit.

Diya
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:23 PM
What has Jennifer given back??


Atleast she was there at the ceremony yesterday :tape:

Knizzle
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:24 PM
Atleast she was there at the ceremony yesterday :tape:

Well she gets one gold star, next to the one for her cleaning up her room and staying dry through the night.

Rocketta
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:25 PM
Atleast she was there at the ceremony yesterday :tape:

and that means more than anything right? :lol:

Ohh! I just thought of another thing Jennifer has given back! :bounce: :bounce:

Negative Press! :tape:

Sam L
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:29 PM
So let me get this straight.

If you didn't show up to this 30 year thing. You don't appreciate the WTA and all that BJK, did for it. If you did show then you do and give back to the WTA and promote it.

It doesn't matter what you have done all year, everything depended on this one event.

:yeah: Yeah Right!

:rolleyes:
It's a matter of respect. It's the tour's birthday. The same tour that made these players millionairesses.

starr
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:30 PM
you know I know understand why people always insulted steffi (even when it didn't make sense imho to call her cold since she was crying so much and certain rivals showed way less feelings on and off court then she did.) but when I see Justine I get a cold feeling over me too so I guess many felt that same way about Steffi too.


That was interesting, Irma. From the first time I saw Justine in person, I got that same feeling that I got seeing Graf. Just slightly repulsed. Then as I saw more and more of Graf, the feeling grew. I'll see what happens with Justine. I didn't like Evert either at first, but I grew to like her more.

But Evert and Navratilova worked their tails off for the WTA. They were on the board and between them helped to build what BJK and others started. I think both of them were rightfully bitter that Graf did absolutely nothing for the WTA. They wanted to pass the legacy on to her just as it had been passed on to them. Now, unfortunately, the crowd coming after Graf has followed her lead. I think the women might come to regret it, but right now they are whistling Dixie. :)

Diya
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:33 PM
and that means more than anything right? :lol:

Ohh! I just thought of another thing Jennifer has given back! :bounce: :bounce:

Negative Press! :tape:


This entire thread is about the comments of Martina N and Chissy re. players who didn't bother to show up for a ceremony where they should have been present. The Williams sisters were there for the fashion show and all but couldn't come for this ? This is just another example of their 'selfishness' and how they always wash their hands when it comes to giving back to a game that has given them everything. If they could bother to show up for the fashion show then why couldn't they turn up for this ceremony ? :rolleyes:

Rocketta
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:33 PM
It's a matter of respect. It's the tour's birthday. The same tour that made these players millionairesses.


So you are saying if they didn't go to this event they do not support the tour regardless of what they have done all year?

Everything hinged on this one event, right?

Rocketta
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:34 PM
This entire thread is about the comments of Martina N and Chissy re. players who didn't bother to show up for a ceremony where they should have been present. The Williams sisters were there for the fashion show and all but couldn't come for this ? This is just another example of their 'selfishness' and how they always wash their hands when it comes to giving back to a game that has given them everything. If they could bother to show up for the fashion show then why couldn't they turn up for this ceremony ? :rolleyes:


Still waiting for the answer of what Jennifer has given back to the tour?

Rocketta
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:35 PM
What's with the negativity on Queen Jenny? I thought this thread about bitching on the Williams sisters and Graf for petty reasons.

It was but it was time to flip the script! ;)

Veritas
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:38 PM
That was interesting, Irma. From the first time I saw Justine in person, I got that same feeling that I got seeing Graf. Just slightly repulsed. Then as I saw more and more of Graf, the feeling grew. I'll see what happens with Justine. I didn't like Evert either at first, but I grew to like her more.

But Evert and Navratilova worked their tails off for the WTA. They were on the board and between them helped to build what BJK and others started. I think both of them were rightfully bitter that Graf did absolutely nothing for the WTA. They wanted to pass the legacy on to her just as it had been passed on to them. Now, unfortunately, the crowd coming after Graf has followed her lead. I think the women might come to regret it, but right now they are whistling Dixie. :)

Chris and Martina did it because they chose to. Were they under any obligation (e.g. regulations, rules, etc.)? I think not.

Since they're exercising their own rights (i.e. doing promotional work for the Tour), then they can't expect to dictate what the others should or should not do. How dare they go romping around the press, embarassing and criticising others for what essentially is such a trivial matter? Venus and Serena have every right to say "no. I don't want to go to this ceremony". Why? Because like Evert and Navratilova, they're exercising their own rights and choices. Chris and Martina wanted to continued with the work (which is why they're currently appearing at ceremonies and ads - otherwise, if they didn't want to, they could've avoided it). Why force others to like it?

It's like them liking vanilla ice cream and wanting to force others to share their tastes.

bandabou
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:52 PM
Yep...it would have been nice for Venus and Serena to show up....but you canīt force them. They have the right to do anything they like the way they like it. Period.

Veritas
Nov 10th, 2003, 11:54 PM
Yep...it would have been nice for Venus and Serena to show up....but you canīt force them. They have the right to do anything they like the way they like it. Period.

Exactly! And the WTA hasn't done all that much for these ladies. You don't earn millions in the tennis world simply because you're tall and beautiful (Anna doesn't count b/c she earns it through agencies outside of the WTA). You do it through your raquet...not the organisation.

ico4498
Nov 11th, 2003, 12:00 AM
both sisters gave their time this last week promoting the WTA. they've given their time before. chances are good they'll probably give again.

would've been nice if they were there ... but the notion that they give nothing back is absurd.

Sam L
Nov 11th, 2003, 12:36 AM
So you are saying if they didn't go to this event they do not support the tour regardless of what they have done all year?

Everything hinged on this one event, right?
No they support the tour. Where was that picture of Serena with the little girls?

It's a mater of respect. Please there's a big difference. This is a huge landmark on the tour and it's something they (Graf/W/S and all could've done) by just attending and giving their respects.

We're arguing about different things here. I'm not saying that they don't give ANYTHING back to the tour, but they need to show respect to the tour that made them who they are today.

Anyway, if I was a top player I definitely would've attended. That's all I'll say this matter.

Trish101
Nov 11th, 2003, 12:37 AM
give me a break, the sisters didnt show up, its there own fault.

We have come to expect them to do this. Like most of us know by now, they dont care because they have what they want, money, and lots of it.

As for everything else in the scheme of things, why waste there times going to a stuffy picture scmuzz when they could be taking part in a movie? Its a bad philosophy and a rather poor attitude one, but thats trhe WS attitude, they dont give a shit, never did never will.

All the other girls show what true class they have, they are all team players and they will be known as such, the william sisters have a bad rep with most non WS supporters because of the way they act. They know this, so who cares? thell get whats coming to them.

Trish101
Nov 11th, 2003, 12:42 AM
Dont get me wrong, i wouldnt attend too, but they dont give respect to the women who started the tour, not as much as they should, in fact out of the top ten, they show the least.

They are arrogant, snotty and condecending...and really most of the girls are like that now thanks to the WS setting a bad example

... thats probably why Martina dislikes them, because after the WS showed up the lockerooms never been the samer, there total bitches and its just unpleasant.

Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 11th, 2003, 12:46 AM
Chris and Martina did it because they chose to. Were they under any obligation (e.g. regulations, rules, etc.)? I think not.

Since they're exercising their own rights (i.e. doing promotional work for the Tour), then they can't expect to dictate what the others should or should not do. How dare they go romping around the press, embarassing and criticising others for what essentially is such a trivial matter? Venus and Serena have every right to say "no. I don't want to go to this ceremony". Why? Because like Evert and Navratilova, they're exercising their own rights and choices. Chris and Martina wanted to continued with the work (which is why they're currently appearing at ceremonies and ads - otherwise, if they didn't want to, they could've avoided it). Why force others to like it?

It's like them liking vanilla ice cream and wanting to force others to share their tastes.

Stop your making too much sense for Diya to comprehend!!! Her tiny brain might burst with such thoughtful commentary.

Kart
Nov 11th, 2003, 12:48 AM
So you are saying if they didn't go to this event they do not support the tour regardless of what they have done all year?

Everything hinged on this one event, right?

Exactly.

It was just a 45 minute ceremony. It's no big deal by any means.

Martina has every right to feel that they should have been there but those comments about four sentences total with Steffi are cold :eek:.

Diya
Nov 11th, 2003, 12:48 AM
Why ? You seem to be speaking from experience ? So when was the last time you had a brain fart ?:tape:

Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 11th, 2003, 12:50 AM
No they support the tour. Where was that picture of Serena with the little girls?

It's a mater of respect. Please there's a big difference. This is a huge landmark on the tour and it's something they (Graf/W/S and all could've done) by just attending and giving their respects.

We're arguing about different things here. I'm not saying that they don't give ANYTHING back to the tour, but they need to show respect to the tour that made them who they are today.

Anyway, if I was a top player I definitely would've attended. That's all I'll say this matter.

Tennis didn't make them who they are. Its idiots like you who think people are defined by their careers that need help. Graf monica and asv and venus and serena all earned what they have gotten from their careers. It took hard work and they did it tennis didn't give them a damn thing. If they sucked at the game and were never ranked higher than 500 we wouldnt even be having this discussion would they still owe some imaginary obligation to tennis then? If so then why aren't the girls ranked lower out and about "supporting the tour"?

This is so much more bs.

And if so many people were concerned v and s didn't show then how about asv and monica and steffi, they werent there either.

Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 11th, 2003, 12:52 AM
Dont get me wrong, i wouldnt attend too, but they dont give respect to the women who started the tour, not as much as they should, in fact out of the top ten, they show the least.

They are arrogant, snotty and condecending...and really most of the girls are like that now thanks to the WS setting a bad example

... thats probably why Martina dislikes them, because after the WS showed up the lockerooms never been the samer, there total bitches and its just unpleasant.

funny but that sounds like a perfect description of jen! no wonder bjk kicked her butt of the fed cup team because jen is such a class act right? keep dreaming.

Sam L
Nov 11th, 2003, 12:57 AM
Tennis didn't make them who they are. Its idiots like you who think people are defined by their careers that need help. Graf monica and asv and venus and serena all earned what they have gotten from their careers. It took hard work and they did it tennis didn't give them a damn thing. If they sucked at the game and were never ranked higher than 500 we wouldnt even be having this discussion would they still owe some imaginary obligation to tennis then? If so then why aren't the girls ranked lower out and about "supporting the tour"?

This is so much more bs.

And if so many people were concerned v and s didn't show then how about asv and monica and steffi, they werent there either.
You must've missed Graf from my post. Look through again, and you'll see it. I didn't mention ASV and Monica because I didn't know.

Those who are more successful owes more to the sport because it's the popularity of the sport that helped them make that much money.

Take Althea Gibson for example, she was the best in the world but because there wasn't an established tour like today she had to leave the sport.

If Althea had played now, she'd be a millionairess too. That's the difference. That's why W/S, Graf, ASV etc.. should've been there to pay their respects for the WTA Tour. Get it?

It's not something that most people will get because: 1. They haven't had that much success in their life 2. They are too ungrateful to think about what if things like this.

Anyway, if you cannot argue like a mature adult, then I better not enter one with you in the first place.

starr
Nov 11th, 2003, 12:59 AM
Chris and Martina did it because they chose to. Were they under any obligation (e.g. regulations, rules, etc.)? I think not.

Since they're exercising their own rights (i.e. doing promotional work for the Tour), then they can't expect to dictate what the others should or should not do. How dare they go romping around the press, embarassing and criticising others for what essentially is such a trivial matter? Venus and Serena have every right to say "no. I don't want to go to this ceremony". Why? Because like Evert and Navratilova, they're exercising their own rights and choices. Chris and Martina wanted to continued with the work (which is why they're currently appearing at ceremonies and ads - otherwise, if they didn't want to, they could've avoided it). Why force others to like it?

It's like them liking vanilla ice cream and wanting to force others to share their tastes.

This is the sort of drivel that is being taught in school these days. Of course, it was their own choice. Everything you do including drawing breath at the end of the day is your choice. Saying that something is "a choice" doesn't add any enlightenment to any discussion of anything since one is only stating what is blatantly obvious.

So I guess you might sneer at what Gandhi did because it was his choice. Yes. It was his choice. It inspired some, and others chose to ignore it. I choose to admire those he inspired and not respect those who chose to smear his legacy.

To criticize someone for shirking responsibilites is not the same as forcing everyone to eat vanilla ice cream. There are some values that are better than others. Not all values are worthy of equal respect.

caseyl45
Nov 11th, 2003, 01:06 AM
Exactly! And the WTA hasn't done all that much for these ladies. You don't earn millions in the tennis world simply because you're tall and beautiful (Anna doesn't count b/c she earns it through agencies outside of the WTA). You do it through your raquet...not the organisation.

You're right. Most tennis players today do earn millions through their rackets. However, if not for the organization, today's players earn less than half of what the men do for winning the Grand Slams. Yes, they still earn their millions, but they certainly don't earn as many of them.

Trish101
Nov 11th, 2003, 01:07 AM
Cybelle, this is about your precious Princesses, the ones with the crappy attendance record, and a report card of F- calibre for effort trying to build the tour

.... Jen gets an A for effort and an A for attendance, at least she plays, and i hardly call Jens off court attitude "bitchy snotty or arogant" jen is humble, exact and kind. And most importantly she has respect for her elders.

im done hear, go find another LADY to harass, bitch

moon
Nov 11th, 2003, 01:13 AM
The way I see it, the players of yesteryear busted their butts, to promote the WTA. The players of today, simply will come up short by virtue of in today's game, there is not as much at stake. So, no matter what V and S (and to a lesser degree Steffi) do, it's never gonna compare to what the others did. therefore, there will always be bitching about "they didn't do enough to promote the tour".

Venus and Serena are never gonna please everybody, so they may as well do what they want.

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 11th, 2003, 01:24 AM
Sounds like Martina N made some forthright but not unreasonable comments. Big deal.

Joseosu19
Nov 11th, 2003, 01:25 AM
While I think that these players should ahve showed their respect to the tour, I think that their is many other ways than just showing up to a ceremony. Plus it seems most had prior engagements, and sometimes a person can't back out on plans already made. Anyone who says Monica, Arantxa, Venus and Serena don't promote the tour is completely wrong imo. Monica and Arantxa both give so much to their fans and spend so much time playing charity events and exhibitions. Arantxa also played tons of tour events while Monica was out and Steffi was injured to help draw in crowds. That may have cost her time at #1(the ranking system was different). Venus and Serena have appeared on TV shows, commercials, as well as tons of other things and have become two of the most famous female atheletes. I consider that promoting the tour and paying respect to it.

kevinc982
Nov 11th, 2003, 01:38 AM
The WTA needs to showcase it's finest to promote itself. It needs to shout-out how good it is, how good the events are and it's ability to produce players on a world stage.

If it can't command the respect of it's biggest draw-cards it starts to look like a hollow institution and that could hurt the promotion of the game and the money it makes.

On that count, I can understand why Martina was miffed and it's fair enough to expect a little more pride in the institution that births these players.

right1
Nov 11th, 2003, 01:44 AM
Ok you all said that this was the tour birthday right, Venus and Serena do not celebrity birthdays. so that why they did not come I guess :lol: :lol: :lol: ;) :)

Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 11th, 2003, 01:45 AM
The WTA needs to showcase it's finest to promote itself. It needs to shout-out how good it is, how good the events are and it's ability to produce players on a world stage.

If it can't command the respect of it's biggest draw-cards it starts to look like a hollow institution and that could hurt the promotion of the game and the money it makes.

On that count, I can understand why Martina was miffed and it's fair enough to expect a little more pride in the institution that births these players.

Look the institution didn't birth these players. I could see if the tennis usta had gone out and found venus and serena and developed them with tennis instruction and what not then yes they would owe something to tennis but that didn't happen. The usta is a money grubbing bunch of greedy bastards lining their pockets first.

Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 11th, 2003, 01:49 AM
Cybelle, this is about your precious Princesses, the ones with the crappy attendance record, and a report card of F- calibre for effort trying to build the tour

.... Jen gets an A for effort and an A for attendance, at least she plays, and i hardly call Jens off court attitude "bitchy snotty or arogant" jen is humble, exact and kind. And most importantly she has respect for her elders.

im done hear, go find another LADY to harass, bitch


Whatever Tranny. I see you dont have anything to say about asv, monica and graf who were absent do you? You are such a hypocrite two faced heffer. Please tell me one thing that ms steffi graf has done to support the tour? That woman hasn't done a damn thing in a career that spanned decades.

Trish101
Nov 11th, 2003, 01:55 AM
thats a good policy about showcasing its talent, but if there stars couldnt give a shit it doenst work so well does it?

kevinc982
Nov 11th, 2003, 02:04 AM
Look the institution didn't birth these players. I could see if the tennis usta had gone out and found venus and serena and developed them with tennis instruction and what not then yes they would owe something to tennis but that didn't happen. The usta is a money grubbing bunch of greedy bastards lining their pockets first.

I probably should've worded that better. :retard: I meant that there's no other womens tour (that I know of) that can promote these girls talents on an international stage. So you're right, the WTA doesn't 'birth' them in terms of discovering and nurturing new talent.

Veritas
Nov 11th, 2003, 02:16 AM
This is the sort of drivel that is being taught in school these days. Of course, it was their own choice. Everything you do including drawing breath at the end of the day is your choice. Saying that something is "a choice" doesn't add any enlightenment to any discussion of anything since one is only stating what is blatantly obvious.

So I guess you might sneer at what Gandhi did because it was his choice. Yes. It was his choice. It inspired some, and others chose to ignore it. I choose to admire those he inspired and not respect those who chose to smear his legacy.

To criticize someone for shirking responsibilites is not the same as forcing everyone to eat vanilla ice cream. There are some values that are better than others. Not all values are worthy of equal respect.

First of all, I do not sneer at what Ghandi did/achieved because I know I most likely couldn't have accomplished half of what he's done.

Secondly, the Ghandi analogy is a perfect example. You're right. Ghandi did liberate India from the Brits because he chose to. But get this...he chose to do it because he wanted to go out and give India it's own administration. He didn't do it because others criticised him for sitting on his backside and doing nothing (which isn't true, of course), but he went out and made a difference because it was his very own choice which he had the right to make.

Now, back to the tennis. If Martina and Chris were so vehemently dedicated and passionate about the sport, then two things should happen:

1) They would think twice about saying anything else (along with the millions of different things they've said in the past to belittle others - e.g. Steffi) that would cause controversy and subsequently, probably damage the reputation of the WTA. I, and I'm pretty sure many others, am sick to the teeth with all the media reports of conflicts and bickering going on inside the Tour. And my word...just look at what this incident has done. Already, there's three threads dedicated to a simple quote and members of this board are already at each other's throat. Chris and Martina are household names. They've been in the media/superstar business for quite a while. They should know that the media would mince their words and blow it out of proportion. They should know to be more careful with what they say. And more importantly...they should very well know that Venus and Serena are the sport's biggest celebrities and anything negative shot at them will prove to be fatal. Look at Indian Wells for example. No Venus + No Serena = No big attention. If Martina and Chris really cared about the WTA, then they should say things that won't cause a backlash...because usually, the victim always ends up being the entire tour.

2) Also, if Martina and Chris cared so much about the sport, then really, they should enjoy all the work required to promote it. IMHO, those quotes sound as if they're sour about the no-show. And that most likely means that "I don't want to do this promotional work, but since I feel obliged to, then I'll do it even though I'm sick to death of it". If they really cared enough, they wouldn't give two bread-sticks about others not attending because Martina and Chris would be so immersed in their work, they wouldn't even care about the no-show. And anyway, aren't Martina, Lindsay, Jenn, Tracy, Justine and Kim good enough to promote the sport? Venus and Serena aren't the only big names the WTA can use. Look at Belgium. Tennis has been insanely popular since Kim and Justine took charge of the spotlight. Jenn is one of the most well-known sportswoman and Martina and Lindsay have done ample to promote the sport. So why aren't Martina N and Chris devoting most of their attention to praising those who are there rather than snarling at those who can't attend? Instead of whining about something that's not there, go out and use whatever resources you have. Those other 6 girls who were in LA are outstanding champions and can very well generate media attention.

I agree with you that bringing value to the sport is important and needy.
In terms of "value", I've already said what I wanted about Martina and Chris not needing to generate bad publicity and using what they have. They should be valuing other people.

And anyway, Venus and Serena have done quite a bit as well. Do you think that there would be as much media attention and sponsorship deals if it hadn't been for the metophoric rise of these ladies? Already, the fact that the girls exist in the tennis world is doing plenty for the tour. And in fact, the WTA hasn't been idle to exploit this fame. Look at the number of times they've used Venus and Serena's name!

And I'll mention it again - the WTA isn't exactly peachy. Just as Venus and Serena might not have done "enough" (I purposely used ironic speech marks) for the Tour, the Organisation also has on several occasions, failed to fulfil their part. Look at Indian Wells. Look at RG. Has there been any significant improvements made to make things berable for the players? Sure, there's the argument that "they earn millions so poor crowd behaviour means jack"...but Venus and Serena earned millions because of their efforts to succeed, not because they have to kiss ass and pretend everything's nice and dandy.

Sure, the WTA gave birth. But a mother's obligation doesn't stop there. She (WTA) has to protect the child and nurture its growth. When someone (RG/Indian Wells crowds) has the nerve to hurt the offspring (Venus and Serena), then the mother would do whatever she can to make things better for her child. And if she doesn't even do that, then what hope has the child to survive in this world? Just as a child has its duties...so does the parent.

Venus and Serena don't owe more than they've given.

Oh, and Trish - please, don't use the word "bitch". I kinda like you...but I'm not so sure when you go around verbally bashing Venus, Serena and their fans. It kinda makes you seem less "ladylike" (your own words) :kiss:

Trish101
Nov 11th, 2003, 03:41 AM
Cybelle,

Dear i never incenuated Graff did anything, she was just like your prissy goddesses, diva'ish. bitchy and uncooperative. Remind you of a certain sister act?

Hun dont start with me, ive heared your babbling nonsence one too many times, and frankly, i really dont care anymore. Your old, tiered and about to run out of gas, and im not just taking about that crap body of your either, Miss Bubbles.

I am just saying what i see, and i dont see anything that the WS have done to further anything but themselves, they are highly selfish, very much like Graff, Monica and ASV im surprised, because they dont come off as selfish sluts like the other three. But surprise they no-show. I guess they were just like those others the whole time.

-have a nice day bitch, have a nice day.

Trish101
Nov 11th, 2003, 03:47 AM
Dismal ^^^ wonderfull threads, full of good points, i have to say i dont agree with everything, but thats life, right?

I kinda, sorta like you too sug! But i have to say, i dont swear or cuss or act 'unladylike' half as much as others ie: cybelle, Dawn ect ect the List of Bimbo-ish divas is forever expanding. Sure i have my moments of 'bittchyness' and i come across as a dominatrix little firecraker, but then again im an original poster, not some two-faced craker like Cybelle.

I can dish it out with the best of em' and if that poser Cybelle or any other girl wants to bring it, then god as my witness, i will bring it too. Its my god given right to blast tools like her, and so thats the way it works. (other than that im pretty calm, but again i take no crap, and no prisoners)

-lata sug!

CC
Nov 11th, 2003, 03:57 AM
Pam Shriver is such a little fucker. I noticed she took a catty jab at the players who were absent during the YEC final.

Ah, bitches.

TonyP
Nov 11th, 2003, 04:23 AM
Steffi was the only one with any kind of excuse and her's wouldn't hold water. She could have afforded to fly there in a private jet and bring her kids and a whole pediatric hospital with her if she wanted to.

There was no excuse at all for the others, except pure selfishness. And anyone who was in LA and decided not to attend should be drummed out of the WTA.

sunnysideup
Nov 11th, 2003, 04:47 AM
It's acceptable that the William sisters could not join the tournament for valid reasons but at least they should have attended the ceremony just to show their support to their respective organization, which made them millionaires.

Attending the ceremony can't injure them physically or mentally.:rolleyes:

Trish101
Nov 11th, 2003, 04:58 AM
i agree, its disgracefull. But they dont care either way, never have. Thats there problem, theve been taught to be selfish and to take take take and never give.

Taking is good, but without giving youll soon find out, your alone, and nobody wants to have anything to do with you.

Graff, im surprised she found a man, whod want a frigid woman like her as a wife? unless shes polar opposite what she was on the tour i dunno...but theres diffenetly some mental abuse that she whent through as a child, if not physical...her father was highly abusive and very angry man.

As for the williams, they had nothing earth shattering to do, and both were in the LA area the day before, so they HAD NO excuses other than the fact
1) there lazy
2) they dont care
3) FORGOT, YEAH RIGHT

Well you get the point...even ^ those excuses cannot justify there lack of class, im discusted and so deeply dissapointed, ive lost all my respect for Serena, and i have even more contempt for Venus for pulling ANOTHER stunt like this, childish and immature, discusting.

Knizzle
Nov 11th, 2003, 05:04 AM
Trish you are calling the WS lazy?? I don't even have to tell you what's wrong with you saying that.

Trish101
Nov 11th, 2003, 05:07 AM
Its called un-proffesional.

Knizzle
Nov 11th, 2003, 05:08 AM
Its called un-proffesional.

And who are the "professional" players.

Trish101
Nov 11th, 2003, 05:09 AM
well what would you call that? ..."they were too busy watching Oprah" whatever! there lazy. End of story.

Knizzle
Nov 11th, 2003, 05:10 AM
well what would you call that? ..."they were too busy watching Oprah" whatever! there lazy. End of story.

I didn't think you had an answer.

harloo
Nov 11th, 2003, 05:20 AM
What's so funny is that Capriati fans are coming in here dissing Venus and Serena for not respecting BJK, when Jen cursed her out during Fed Cup like an uneducated sailor. The ONLY reason Capriati showed up was because she was playing this tournament. She would never have shown up for anything honoring BJK.

I remember the whole Jen Cup Scandal, and how most of the Jen fans called BJK everything under the sun. And when other posters mentioned respect of a legend, and how Jen should apologize, the attacks got worser. Everything from her being overweight to her being a NAZI.

Now you people want to try to say Venus and Serena have no respect for BJK for not showing up to a gala dinner event? You not only sound idiotic, but pathetic at the same time.

Honestly, I wish the all the former number one's would of shown up. But they did not, and I'm pretty sure they had their reasons. Martina Nav, and Prissy Chrissy should really worry about themselves and stop commenting on other people.

The funny part is that you don't hear BJK complaining about anything at all. You only hear the loud mouth making such claims about Steffi and the Williams? Why single out these three players? Hmm....???

SerenaSlam
Nov 11th, 2003, 05:21 AM
if i was venus and serena, and steffi, i would send a damn card in the mail to they ass, stating, how the fuck i feel. and personally don't appreciate them "assuming" bull shit.

all navy needed to say was, she knew venus and serena were in town, but may have had prior obligations. when it comes to venus and serena, both are so famous in the public eye, that you need to let them know ahead of time, cuz they always have shit on they schedule.

Cam'ron Giles
Nov 11th, 2003, 05:32 AM
What's so funny is that Capriati fans are coming in here dissing Venus and Serena for not respecting BJK, when Jen cursed her out during Fed Cup like an uneducated sailor. The ONLY reason Capriati showed up was because she was playing this tournament. She would never have shown up for anything honoring BJK.

I remember the whole Jen Cup Scandal, and how most of the Jen fans called BJK everything under the sun. And when other posters mentioned respect of a legend, and how Jen should apologize, the attacks got worser. Everything from her being overweight to her being a NAZI.

Now you people want to try to say Venus and Serena have no respect for BJK for not showing up to a gala dinner event? You not only sound idiotic, but pathetic at the same time.

Honestly, I wish the all the former number one's would of shown up. But they did not, and I'm pretty sure they had their reasons. Martina Nav, and Prissy Chrissy should really worry about themselves and stop commenting on other people.

The funny part is that you don't hear BJK complaining about anything at all. You only hear the loud mouth making such claims about Steffi and the Williams? Why single out these three players? Hmm....???

Amen to that... :worship:

Trish101
Nov 11th, 2003, 05:38 AM
amen to the sisters having some class!

Couver
Nov 11th, 2003, 06:11 AM
This Thread is :lol: :lol:

It's just a forum for haters and fans to get together and have a good old fashioned brawl!

The funny thing is that by next January none of these players will remember or care about this event, that goes for those who were there and those who weren't. It's a small blip in their lives and the only ones who'll still be caring are people like Diya and Trish who'll bring this up every 3 months in a Williams or Steffi bashing thread (keep an eye out people it will happen.)


And I agree BJK has done everything for tennis and I"m glad Venus & Serena have a good relationship with her. But by not showing up for this well clearly they cannot stand her! :rolleyes:

I'm just glad they never called her homophobic names or cussed her out that's just down right low, clearly any player who does that to BJK is a total ungrateful B :lol:

nante4ever
Nov 11th, 2003, 06:29 AM
Hmmm...I don't think they care about missing some celebration seeing as how many people in the public conciousness actually know it was even happening.

Hammered it into what, exactly?
A couple hundred people see they are there and all of the sudden the public hates them! I don't think they give a damn about what anybody there would have to say about them in a negative light as that's all certain people see them in aways!

Funny, I thought that being a great athlete put $ in your pocket!
Guess not! If they weren't great athletes they'd still be getting the bucks? Can my sister sign up?

They had no obligation to go!
I wasn't aware attendance was mandatory!
Wasn't aware that this was a requirement under the "job" description.
How much will they be fined and how will they get at Steffi and Arantxa?

U know, i agree that it is not an obligation but mature individuals now that they need not feel obligated to attend a very important event from the tour that made them very rich and famous. After all, Venus and Serena can attend an MTV awards, why not the event at the YEC.

oddkayla
Nov 11th, 2003, 08:21 AM
Feminists who came before us have ensured we have the rights we now enjoy. Their fight and struggle has meant that I was able to get an education, that I have the great job that I have.

When they have celebrations, I choose whether I want to be there or not. I'm not forced by anything to show my support. It is part of the freedom to choose that I now get to enjoy.

At the end of the day, anyone who did not attend had a right to do that. It is a job. They do it to the best of their abilities, and even that is often not enough for Martina and her ilk. Give them a break already.

Everybody has thought these girls are not good for the tour. And then they do not show up and everybody starts whining!

Good for them to be away from such negativity. If they had been there it would have been something else.

servenrichie
Nov 11th, 2003, 09:18 AM
Actually I agree 100% with her. Steffi is eccentric in her reclusiveness. I always liked her but there is something about her facial expressions and reclusiveness that come across very very cold. Not to mention Steffi's theatrics to turn the crowd against Hingis at the French. :fiery:

As far as the Williams sisters go, well, we all know they can't be bothered to support the tour. :rolleyes:

Say what? This kid redefines chameleon :eek: :devil:

Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 11th, 2003, 01:06 PM
Trish the Tranny is forever and a day spewing bs. Jen must have bad karma or probably killed jesus christ in a former life to deserve a fan like trish.

selesfan
Nov 11th, 2003, 01:09 PM
I don't care how much of a legend she is, but I am officially getting sick of her UGH. It's her choice to eat, sleep , and breathe , everything tennis--- but leave those who don't feel the same way the hell alone for crying out loud :fiery: :o :mad: :devil:

Me too. I am so sick of her. I wish she would retire already.

griffin
Nov 11th, 2003, 01:09 PM
Not cool, Cybelle! That is not fair to trannies! :fiery:

Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 11th, 2003, 01:11 PM
Not cool, Cybelle! That is not fair to trannies! :fiery:

This is true so I hereby apologize to all trannies for the comparison to the pit monster of the sixth circle of hell, trish....

whoops I suppose i'm being unfair to the pit monsters now.... so I hereby apologize to the pit monsters of the sixth circle for comparing you to the thing that is trish...

RAA
Nov 11th, 2003, 01:26 PM
look, I love venus and serena.. but it would have been nice if at least one of them made the effort to come..

CapFan#1
Nov 11th, 2003, 01:53 PM
What's so funny is that Capriati fans are coming in here dissing Venus and Serena for not respecting BJK, when Jen cursed her out during Fed Cup like an uneducated sailor. The ONLY reason Capriati showed up was because she was playing this tournament. She would never have shown up for anything honoring BJK.

I remember the whole Jen Cup Scandal, and how most of the Jen fans called BJK everything under the sun. And when other posters mentioned respect of a legend, and how Jen should apologize, the attacks got worser. Everything from her being overweight to her being a NAZI.

Now you people want to try to say Venus and Serena have no respect for BJK for not showing up to a gala dinner event? You not only sound idiotic, but pathetic at the same time.

Honestly, I wish the all the former number one's would of shown up. But they did not, and I'm pretty sure they had their reasons. Martina Nav, and Prissy Chrissy should really worry about themselves and stop commenting on other people.

The funny part is that you don't hear BJK complaining about anything at all. You only hear the loud mouth making such claims about Steffi and the Williams? Why single out these three players? Hmm....???


How typical :rolleyes: Lash out at other fans and players after your players have done a faux paus! And since you brought up Fed CUPGATE, let's clarify..... As I and many other Cap fans said at the time... it takes two to tango and Jen wasn't the only one cussing like a drunken sailor that day. As we said at the time, BJK did a hell of a lot for the Tour, she just isn't a good Coach for Fed Cup... way too egotistical... which is a good quality for a pioneer (like someone starting a women's tennis assoc.) but a HORRIBLE quality for a coach and captain. Jen may have behaved badly in that incident, but BJK behaved a whole lot worse given her experience and stature. Having said all that, it doesn't take away from her achievements in the past.

This issue wasnt about disrespecting BJK, but about disrespecting the organization-- the WTA.

Nice try... trying to shift the microscope away from those who did not attend... but ultimately you failed :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ted of Teds Tennis
Nov 11th, 2003, 02:06 PM
It seems a fairly safe bet to me that the tour wouldn't be anywhere near what it is, and that by consequence today's players wouldn't earn the prize money (and the endorsements which flow from being a top player) they do, if it weren't for the pioneering work of BJK and the other women in the early 1970s.

Obviously, nobody has to attend, and they can't be forced to attend, but it is disappointing, and poor form, for any of the former #1s not to be there without very good reason. (Ironically, the one with the best reason -- Graf -- seems to be coming under just as much criticism as any of the absentees.)

It seems to me that the real issue in this thread is that King and Navratilova -- horror of horrors! -- had the unmitigated gall to criticise the Williams Sisters, and God knows there are a lot people here who seem to believe that Venus and Serena should never come under any criticism whatsoever, and that anybody who does criticise them is just a hater.

What I find most laughable, though, is the idea that Venus would have had prior plans. From press articles posted earlier in the thread, we know that ASV was informed of the event at least a month in advance -- at which time Venus was still, as far as anybody publicly knows, planning to PLAY in the tournament. If she were playing in the tournament, then there's no way she could have had other plans that had her in Florida on Sunday.

starr
Nov 11th, 2003, 02:11 PM
:haha:

A smooth running logical mind is always a pleasure.

spartanfan
Nov 11th, 2003, 02:12 PM
What the fuck Martina and you fucking Williams Sister bashers. Notice that Martina didn't say a harsh word about Seles or ASV? Martina needs to get a life like these missing women obviously have and she hasn't. Didn't Venus and Serena just participate in a charity fashion show for the WTA just this past week? Didn't we just see pictures of Serena at a tennis clinic for young kids. They can't be at EVERY fucking WTA sponsored ass kissing event. Perhaps if she had a life outside of tennis, she'd have less time criticizing those who do.

CapFan#1
Nov 11th, 2003, 02:16 PM
It seems a fairly safe bet to me that the tour wouldn't be anywhere near what it is, and that by consequence today's players wouldn't earn the prize money (and the endorsements which flow from being a top player) they do, if it weren't for the pioneering work of BJK and the other women in the early 1970s.

Obviously, nobody has to attend, and they can't be forced to attend, but it is disappointing, and poor form, for any of the former #1s not to be there without very good reason. (Ironically, the one with the best reason -- Graf -- seems to be coming under just as much criticism as any of the absentees.)

It seems to me that the real issue in this thread is that King and Navratilova -- horror of horrors! -- had the unmitigated gall to criticise the Williams Sisters, and God knows there are a lot people here who seem to believe that Venus and Serena should never come under any criticism whatsoever, and that anybody who does criticise them is just a hater.

What I find most laughable, though, is the idea that Venus would have had prior plans. From press articles posted earlier in the thread, we know that ASV was informed of the event at least a month in advance -- at which time Venus was still, as far as anybody publicly knows, planning to PLAY in the tournament. If she were playing in the tournament, then there's no way she could have had other plans that had her in Florida on Sunday.


So well said! :worship: :worship: :worship:

CapFan#1
Nov 11th, 2003, 02:17 PM
What the fuck Martina and you fucking Williams Sister bashers. Notice that Martina didn't say a harsh word about Seles or ASV? Martina needs to get a life like these missing women obviously have and she hasn't. Didn't Venus and Serena just participate in a charity fashion show for the WTA just this past week? Didn't we just see pictures of Serena at a tennis clinic for young kids. They can't be at EVERY fucking WTA sponsored ass kissing event. Perhaps if she had a life outside of tennis, she'd have less time criticizing those who do.


We all know the only reason they were at the fashion show was to promote their clothing lines :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

starr
Nov 11th, 2003, 02:19 PM
You noticed that, did you?

I would still like to know more about Serena's snit on Saturday. :)

brickhousesupporter
Nov 11th, 2003, 02:27 PM
Am I the only who thinks that the only reason they wanted Venus and Serena there was to have the 2 minority girls in the wta number 1 picture.

Doraemon
Nov 11th, 2003, 02:38 PM
Am I the only who thinks that the only reason they wanted Venus and Serena there was to have the 2 minority girls in the wta number 1 picture.

I don't think it's got much to do with race, minority or whatever.

Doraemon
Nov 11th, 2003, 02:45 PM
I know where Martina is coming from and it's understandable the way she felt about those former no.1s' absense. I don't think they should have been there but it would have been real great with them all in presense to celebrate the 30th anniversary of the tour. I don't see anything wrong in Martina expressing her opinon but she could have said it much better or more diplomatically. It's just her opinion and her opinion doesn't refelct everyone else' and she may be one of the greatest players and deserves a lot respect and credit for her contribution to the tour's advancement. Personally I like her all the better for being so outspoken and opinionated.. hehe.. but.. the way she criticized the sisters and Steffi in particular really... Guess she said what she said the way she said it (sorry to beat ard the bush hehe) for the sake of the tour on the whole... so though I may not agree with her on what she said, I still support her attitude and mentality towards the sport..

TonyP
Nov 11th, 2003, 03:43 PM
A few thoughts.

The event itself in my view was poorly done, and I was there to watch it. It was held on the wrong night. The second to last night was not a good time to promote the Staples Center event. The timing during the day was poor, requiring some of the women to show up in sweats, which is not the way they should have dressed for such a ceremony.

The ceremony itself was pretty lame. It began with a short and not particularly well done video showing some matches, then a salute to the girls who formed the tour, then Pam introing each number one, then Billie Jean's long speech, which was hard to understand because of poor miking. (I am at Staples Center a lot and never before has any speech been hard to understand.)

Lastly, the number one's held no formal news conference, which is what should have happened. All nine of them should have sat down at the table in the press conference room and answered questions from the press. Instead, the press "grabbed" individuals in the tunnels, either before or after the ceremony. But that wasn't nearly as fun as hearing them interact in a news conference could have been.

All that being said, it wouldn't have killed those other players to show up to help support a sport that has made them --made them millionaires to be sure.

In the end, I'm sure several of those who came had other things to do, but chose to be there anyway.

The fact that is is widely believed that most of those who didn't show up have pretty much behaved the same way during the course of their careers. They show up at tournies, play their matches, pick up their paychecks and go home.

Personally, I think it takes more and the players who have consistantly supported the tour deserve praise. The tour is struggling now and it got out last night that the Championships will probably move again in 2005 due to poor attendance. TV numbers are either down or stagnent and there is a feel by many (including a lot of journalists), that women's tennis as lost some of its alure, in part because the big stars are quitting or have quit. Some of those big stars came back Sunday night to try to lend a hand.

Others chose not to. Its not hard to see why those who didn't have come in for criticism.

harloo
Nov 11th, 2003, 04:19 PM
How typical :rolleyes: Lash out at other fans and players after your players have done a faux paus! And since you brought up Fed CUPGATE, let's clarify..... As I and many other Cap fans said at the time... it takes two to tango and Jen wasn't the only one cussing like a drunken sailor that day. As we said at the time, BJK did a hell of a lot for the Tour, she just isn't a good Coach for Fed Cup... way too egotistical... which is a good quality for a pioneer (like someone starting a women's tennis assoc.) but a HORRIBLE quality for a coach and captain. Jen may have behaved badly in that incident, but BJK behaved a whole lot worse given her experience and stature. Having said all that, it doesn't take away from her achievements in the past.

This issue wasnt about disrespecting BJK, but about disrespecting the organization-- the WTA.

Nice try... trying to shift the microscope away from those who did not attend... but ultimately you failed :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Basically I'm speaking of the hypocrisy of rabid Capriati fans who disrespected BJK by constantly calling her out of her name during the Jen Cup Scandal. Now they want to act they have SOOOOOOOO much respect for BJK and what she did for the WTA since their favorite is not attacked for not attending a gala event? Give everyone a BREAK!! Capriati fans who disrespected BJK should not even mention any word about respect for the founder of the WTA.

I wish Venus and Serena would of shown up, but it did not happen. If asked about why they did not attend they will say what happened. But Martina Nav, and Chrissy have no right to diss Steffi, and the Williams for not showing. Enjoy the event and move on already.

It just goes to show you the championships could not end with some made up drama concerning the Williams.

Whatever! :lol:

Trish101
Nov 11th, 2003, 08:03 PM
Cybelle,

You are a dog, and a heffer, so dont go around spreading your germs to all the posters. You vile slut.

Its just too bad i cant lay waste to you like id like, by lordy your terribly lucky your trashy hashy ass aint near my face, thats all im gonna say.

Dogs just never shut up do they? Its like you gotta put them in there place everytime, but its ok Cybelle, chihuahuas like yourself are ALL bark and no bite. So dont mess with this pitbull, wouldnt want to hurt you now.

have a nice day bitch, have yourself a good one.

Trish101
Nov 11th, 2003, 08:08 PM
Cybelle, tranny? now you of all people calling me a tranny? its like me calling you a lady, we all know your not...but come on...thats just sad.

resorting to chep name calling, a classless poster and classless namecalling, fits the bill perfectly.

-later; two faced-craker.

Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 11th, 2003, 08:23 PM
Cybelle,

You are a dog, and a heffer, so dont go around spreading your germs to all the posters. You vile slut.

Its just too bad i cant lay waste to you like id like, by lordy your terribly lucky your trashy hashy ass aint near my face, thats all im gonna say.

Dogs just never shut up do they? Its like you gotta put them in there place everytime, but its ok Cybelle, chihuahuas like yourself are ALL bark and no bite. So dont mess with this pitbull, wouldnt want to hurt you now.

have a nice day bitch, have yourself a good one.

Wow you definitely are a jen fan with a mouth like that. Well you know what they say about people who use so much profanity... you do know what they say dont you? Probably not.

Though it is nice to know that you recognize yourself as a pitbull. I myself am a person, you know a human being, not a deranged rabid dog that you claim to be. How sad for you. I hope you find that self esteem you're so desperately looking for but I doubt its in the bottom of a bottle of captain morgan. whoops, the captain is probably too expensive for your taste, I meant the bottom of a bottle of peppermint shcnapps.

Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 11th, 2003, 08:27 PM
Cybelle, tranny? now you of all people calling me a tranny? its like me calling you a lady, we all know your not...but come on...thats just sad.

resorting to chep name calling, a classless poster and classless namecalling, fits the bill perfectly.

-later; two faced-craker.

Im so sorry that you can't afford your medication anymore. Well, times are tough and the economy is hard on everyone, even self proclaimed pitbulls such as yourself. Is therapy working or are you still chewing on your slippers at night? Well, wherever you get your reassurance I'm happy for you. Maybe in a few weeks you can move on to squeaky toys.

In the meanwhile I've already apologized to the tranny community for desparging their name in connection to you who are so foul. Perhaps the trannys will take pity on you and adopt you as one of their own since there really isn't a community for rabid mutant genetically challenged pittbulls.

CapFan#1
Nov 11th, 2003, 08:33 PM
Basically I'm speaking of the hypocrisy of rabid Capriati fans who disrespected BJK by constantly calling her out of her name during the Jen Cup Scandal. Now they want to act they have SOOOOOOOO much respect for BJK and what she did for the WTA since their favorite is not attacked for not attending a gala event? Give everyone a BREAK!! Capriati fans who disrespected BJK should not even mention any word about respect for the founder of the WTA.

I wish Venus and Serena would of shown up, but it did not happen. If asked about why they did not attend they will say what happened. But Martina Nav, and Chrissy have no right to diss Steffi, and the Williams for not showing. Enjoy the event and move on already.

It just goes to show you the championships could not end with some made up drama concerning the Williams.

Whatever! :lol:


Wow, how sad for you that everything is either black or white for you, that you can not grasp the concept of the "gray", of things that are neither black nor white..... THE WHOLE POINT OF MY PREVIOUS POST WAS THAT I CAN STILL RESPECT WHAT SOMEONE HAS DONE IN THE PAST BUT HAVE FAULT WITH HOW THEY ARE CONDUCTING THEMSELVES TODAY.. IT'S LIKE MICHAEL JACKSON, HIS OLD MUSIC WAS INCREDIBLE, BUT NOW HE IS JUST A FREAK WHO MAKES SHITE MUSIC.

AND THE CEREMONY WASNT ABOUT BJK!!!! IT WAS ABOUT THE WTA AS A WHOLE AND ITS' FOUNDING!
IDIOT!!!

Trish101
Nov 12th, 2003, 02:11 AM
Cybelle, medication, pitbulls, class?? hun are you on E??? I know you look and smell like a crack head, but really do you have to act like one too?

As i have mentioned before, im more than happy to lend out some food stamps for you, seeing as you spend all that government money on dope and whatnot, your kids need to eat too, ya know?

I just hope you take that head of yours, and your life out of the sewere girl, cause your starting to reek of mold and garbage, just like your personality.

im here if you need something Cybelle, people like me are kind folk, we just ask that you behave like a lady, even if your really a no good hooker.

- hope for the best, ill be praying for you!

Trish101
Nov 12th, 2003, 02:22 AM
wow^ its the pshyco-Diva herself, two bitches, one thread, im not impressed. :kiss:

Trish101
Nov 12th, 2003, 02:28 AM
Duece,

I whent on a vacation, but yeah i have recovered, it seems you have too; all those burn marks have scabed up nicely Duece Hun, too bad i cant say the same about the eyes...

but i promised myself that next time it wouldnt get phyical...so how are ya??

Trish101
Nov 12th, 2003, 02:28 AM
;)

Trish101
Nov 12th, 2003, 02:33 AM
yeah... i whent everywhere, right down to New Orleans, i visited some old relatives, it was awsome, creol food is DEVINE, and i meet Emeril Legassi, now HE can cook LOBSTER MMMM

right1
Nov 12th, 2003, 03:08 AM
[QUOTE=Kabuke]Absence of Williams sisters irks Martina
Mon 10 November, 2003 09:23

By Matthew Cronin

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The Williams sisters Venus and Serena have earned a rebuke from Martina Navratilova for turning their backs on a ceremony celebrating the 30th anniversary of the WTA tour.

Eight of the 13 year-end world number ones invited did show up at the STAPLES Center for an on-court ceremony to honour tour founder Billie Jean King and the other founding members.

But the Williams sisters -- plus Steffi Graf, Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario and Monica Seles -- were conspicuous by their absence.

"You're part of the history and the present and future. It's too bad they (the Williams sisters) didn't make it. I know Serena is in town... I don't know where Venus is," Navratilova said. "They should have been here."

The sisters had attended a Los Angeles Lakers game and a fashion show in the city earlier in the week.

WTA officials weren't sure why the five absentees, who earned a combined $78 million prize money, didn't come.

"I don't know what everyone's situations were, but I would be disappointed if there were some that could have made it here and didn't," added Chris Evert who enjoyed a hypnotic rivalry with Navratilova spanning three decades. "That would be too bad.

GOOD EXCUSE

"But if you can't, you can't. Steffi could have jumped on her or (husband Andre) Agassi's private plane. I would hope you have a really good excuse if you didn't come."

Graf recently gave birth to their second child, a daughter, Jaz. Even though the German travels with Agassi on tour, she almost never makes public appearances to promote tennis.

"Steffi doesn't talk much," Navratilova. "She keeps to herself. I never really had a conversation with her. I think she's asked me about four questions in my life, so how can you have a conversation?

"She never really gave much of herself to anyone on the tour. She's not going to start now. She supports Andre, but even there she is in the background, in the corner and not on camera. That's how she is and that's okay."

Those in attendance included Evert, Billie Jean King, Navratilova, Tracy Austin, Martina Hingis, Jennifer Capriati, Kim Clijsters and this year's year-end world number one Justine Henin-Hardenne.


http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=sportsNews&storyID=401160&section=news

She can do what she want to do outside of tennis but Venus and Serena can't http://www.**************
go down to see Martina on the page

Trish101
Nov 12th, 2003, 03:23 AM
well dahlin', i stayed in the world famous french quarter (and in my opinion the nicest part) of Newohleanz hahaha, actually i pampered myself by loging @ the beautiful Astor Crown Plaza Hotel, over on the corner of Canal and Bourbon streets...it was pure magic, let me tell ya!

There facilities are to die for and i just thouroughly enjoyed the staff, they treat you like royalty!

Anywho double-D i whent shopping, raided bourbon street and spent some time in the Garden District, that was ok too.

Anyways my Aunt lives 40 min by the coast near the river Delta, so we whent there (me and my sis) and just lazed about as my aunt fussed over us! it was pure heaven!

So tell me about your escapade to the Big-Easy? (lol silly name, but true) im DYING to hear!

Ballbuster
Nov 12th, 2003, 03:43 AM
Intimacy Starved broads fighting again......boy, y'all need some bad!

Trish101
Nov 12th, 2003, 03:46 AM
^^^ wow whats witht he bad rep? care to explain big boy?? hahahaha!

Ballbuster
Nov 12th, 2003, 04:15 AM
^^^Wanna help make it a single line of red dots?

Trish101
Nov 12th, 2003, 04:15 AM
interesting!...yes interesting fo' sure.

Trish101
Nov 12th, 2003, 04:18 AM
hmmm a line of red dots? should i? Would that be a responsible thing for me to do? Better not!

But bad boys do turn me on....good boys dont do nuthin', but bad boys...hmmm

Trish101
Nov 12th, 2003, 04:54 PM
no i dont think i will...nope!

esdee
Nov 12th, 2003, 06:08 PM
OK, just a couple of thoughts.

No-one other than the individuals concerned knows why they no-showed for the ceremony, but I feel it was a shame that the missing no 1's weren't there.

It's not just about honouring BJK and the "pioneers" for taking risks to promote womens tennis, and womens sports in general. For me it would also have been an opportunity to acknowledge the role of the fans in establishing such a successful sport. After all, many of us visit various tournaments and our series tickets help to boost the bank balances of the players and tour in general.
How many of todays players would actually be involved in the game if the prize money and endorsement opportunities weren't so great?
For that, you have to say "respect" to the likes of King/Casals/Evert/Navratilova any many more, for paving the way.

Wasn't Virginia Ruzici's victory at Roland Garros (and handy sum of prize money) one of the factors which motivated Richard Williams to inspire Venus and Serena to great things?

The opportunity to travel the world and earn a fortune appealed to many players from former Eastern Bloc countries - would we have had the opportunity to see all these great players if the foundations hadn't been laid soundly by the "old guard"?

On a final note - in these days of technolgical sophistication, couldn't they have managed a satellite link up with those no 1's who couldn't be there???