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lizchris
Nov 9th, 2003, 01:43 AM
I don't know if Ai is playing well or Justine is tanking, but Venus will fall to number 11 if Ai wins.

Ai won 6-3, 6-4, so Venus will start the year at number 11. I am going to have to watch her matches with the mute button on because Pam will have diarrhea of the mouth when talking about her.

CanadianBoy21
Nov 9th, 2003, 01:54 AM
It's amazing she is at 11, she only played 6 tournies!!!!!!!!

jellybelly
Nov 9th, 2003, 01:56 AM
you forgot special seeds!

no way Venus playing AO as seed 11 :D

tennnisfannn
Nov 9th, 2003, 01:59 AM
I don't know if Ai is playing well or Justine is tanking, but Venus will fall to number 11 if Ai wins.
Are you celebrating Ai's victory or Venus downfall? :rolleyes: Why pick on Venus and not on Seles who has played one more tourny more than Venus and Vento Kabchi just pushed ahead of her to a no.46. Come monday, Seles will be out of the top 50.
Nothing against Seles but your attitude to venus is plain juvenile.
And while you are it, why don't you start a thread showing how Danille Spacek, ranked 1117 is now ranked ahead of Hingis. :fiery:

lizchris
Nov 9th, 2003, 02:00 AM
It's amazing she is at 11, she only played 6 tournies!!!!!!!!

You have a point. Lindsay had more tournaments played when she dropped out of the top ten and she dropped lower than Venus.

MisterQ
Nov 9th, 2003, 02:01 AM
Don't worry, Venus will be back in the top Ten in no time! It is remarkable that she is even ranked 11 considering how little she has played this year!

And I personally think it's great for Ai, who has worked so hard this year, to have a taste of it.

lizchris
Nov 9th, 2003, 02:05 AM
Are you celebrating Ai's victory or Venus downfall? :rolleyes: Why pick on Venus and not on Seles who has played one more tourny more than Venus and Vento Kabchi just pushed ahead of her to a no.46. Come monday, Seles will be out of the top 50.
Nothing against Seles but your attitude to venus is plain juvenile.

Are you crazy? No way in hell am I celebrating a victory that is questionable at best. I am not angry that Venus fell to number 11; I am angry that the incoming number one played tanked to a player she should have beaten easily.

I am sorry that Venus will probably be seeded 4 or 5 at the AO because poetic justice would be Venus beating justine in the fourth round of a Grand Slam.

Chance
Nov 9th, 2003, 02:09 AM
9- 12 seeds won't meet 1-4 seeds in the fourth round.. but might play in the quarter final.

bandabou
Nov 9th, 2003, 02:09 AM
Hahaha...it doesn´t matter. Too bad for Venus, but that´s part of life.

tennnisfannn
Nov 9th, 2003, 02:11 AM
Are you crazy? No way in hell am I celebrating a victory that is questionable at best. I am not angry that Venus fell to number 11; I am angry that the incoming number one played tanked to a player she should have beaten easily.

I am sorry that Venus will probably be seeded 4 or 5 at the AO because poetic justice would be Venus beating justine in the fourth round of a Grand Slam.
Sorry mate, :hug: too many threads already dedicated to Venus' ranking and I misread your intention.
Here I was wondering what we would ever talk about in the off season considering that Justine had the nerve to end the year no.1 :devil: We certainly cannot bitch about the ranking system now.

JustineTime
Nov 9th, 2003, 02:16 AM
So now Justine is tanking.

How's your psychic hotline doing these days, Bri? :)

~KKman~
Nov 9th, 2003, 02:17 AM
:woohoo:

lizchris
Nov 9th, 2003, 02:25 AM
So now Justine is tanking.

How's your psychic hotline doing these days, Bri? :)

I may not be Ms. Cleo but I wasn't born last night either.

Explain this to me:

Justine's Day 1 - Went down 5-0 in the first set to Myskina, took an injury time out and was able to win seven games in a row?

Justine's Day 2 - Able to easily beat Jennifer (though injured, apparently wasn't as injured as she lead us to believe)

Justine's Day 3 - Not able to take a set off a person who she can beat and probably has beaten?

jellybelly
Nov 9th, 2003, 02:31 AM
Lindbergs call...they want baby back :p

¤CharlDa¤
Nov 9th, 2003, 02:35 AM
POor Venus....But hey, the one who are the worst in this situatuion are the one who will have ehr in the round of 16 in GS ;)

JustineTime
Nov 9th, 2003, 02:44 AM
Bri, I've read your posts for a long time, and I know you hate Justine. I was just poking fun, as well as making a point:

You haven't seen the match, have you? Tell me your baseless accusation isn't colored by your dislike of Justine.

Also, that's a pretty crappy thing to say about Ai, who has had some impressive results this year, such as her hard-won victory over Kim in Scottsdale, without which she wouldn't even BE in LA right now.

I was just pointing out what I consider the juvenility of your sentiments in my own inimitable way! :)

lizchris
Nov 9th, 2003, 02:49 AM
Bri, I've read your posts for a long time, and I know you hate Justine. I was just poking fun, as well as making a point:

You haven't seen the match, have you? Tell me your baseless accusation isn't colored by your dislike of Justine.

Also, that's a pretty crappy thing to say about Ai, who has had some impressive results this year, such as her hard-won victory over Kim in Scottsdale, without which she wouldn't even BE in LA right now.

I was just pointing out what I consider the juvenility of your sentiments in my own inimitable way! :)

I don't hate Justine; I don't know the woman; what I don't like is the theatrics on the court.

I don't have to see this match to know what was going on

With all due to respect to Ai, who had a great season, she would not have been in LA if not for the withdrawl of Serena.

If you find my posts so juvenile, then why are you here?

decemberlove
Nov 9th, 2003, 02:53 AM
who fucking cares?

we know where venus will be when she starts to play.

lizchris
Nov 9th, 2003, 02:56 AM
who fucking cares?

we know where venus will be when she starts to play.

Where?

And if you don't care, then why post in this thread?

JustineTime
Nov 9th, 2003, 02:59 AM
I don't hate Justine; I don't know the woman; what I don't like is the theatrics on the court.

I don't have to see this match to know what was going on

With all due to respect to Ai, who had a great season, she would not have been in LA if not for the withdrawl of Serena.

If you find my posts so juvenile, then why are you here?

C'mon, Bri, I've seen anti-Justine sentiments from you long before RG this year. Who are you trying to kid? :rolleyes:

And who says my finding someone's posts juvenile precludes me from responding? I'm quite juvenile myself more often than not, in case you haven't noticed. ;)

And once again: your conclusions are unfairly based on a marked lack of evidence. :rolleyes:

But, hey, here's some good ole irony for ya:

The last time they played, in Antwerp[ ;) ], Justine beat Ai by the very same score by which she lost tonight! :lol: :tape:

decemberlove
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:00 AM
shell be back where she belongs.

as in, why bother? its not as if vee is playing and shes dropped this much.
cos i like to get your panties in a bunch :devil:

lizchris
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:05 AM
C'mon, Bri, I've seen anti-Justine sentiments from you long before RG this year. Who are you trying to kid? :rolleyes:

And who says my finding someone's posts juvenile precludes me from responding? I'm quite juvenile myself more often than not, in case you haven't noticed. ;)

And once again: your conclusions are unfairly based on a marked lack of evidence. :rolleyes:

But, hey, here's some good ole irony for ya:

The last time they played, in Antwerp[ ;) ], Justine beat Ai by the very same score by which she lost tonight! :lol: :tape:

The only thing that I posted about Justine that is close to negative was when she (along with Amelie) was complaining about the sisters' dominance in the Grand Slams after she was sent packing by Venus in 2002. And that wasn't negative because I said she at least had the sense enough to know that she had to get better.

Other than that, I'd like for to find a negative post I made about Justine prior to RG.

Bright Red
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:06 AM
That sucks, but it's only a matter of time before she's back in the Top 10. Go Venus!

Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:09 AM
I dont care what her ranking is she's still the goddess of tennis. GO Venus and GO Ai !!!! its about time someone had the ovaries to smack down the enfant terrible and her gamesmanship ways!!! GO AI WOOHOO TOP TEN BABY!!! Finally someone besides venus and serena who can smack justine back in place!!!

K-Dog
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:09 AM
Is this in the Porsche standings or the rankings, because by my knowlege, the seeds are all based of the rankings.

lizchris
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:12 AM
Is this in the Porsche standings or the rankings, because by my knowlege, the seeds are all based of the rankings.

In the rankings.

As of Tuesday, the Porsche standings are erased and everyone is at zero until the first tournament of 2004.

the cat
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:16 AM
Liz, when Venus starts 2004 her #11 ranking will anger her and motivate her to get back to the top. Let's hope her abdominal strain is behind her for good. I have no doubt Venus has the desire to play great tennis again. But can she finally overcome this lingering abdominal strain? That's a tough injury for any athlete to overcome.

JustineTime
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:19 AM
The only thing that I posted about Justine that is close to negative was when she (along with Amelie) was complaining about the sisters' dominance in the Grand Slams after she was sent packing by Venus in 2002. And that wasn't negative because I said she at least had the sense enough to know that she had to get better.

Other than that, I'd like for to find a negative post I made about Justine prior to RG.

That's SOOO not true, Bri. I'm not saying you're a liar, because you're not, but your memory seems pretty subjective on this point.

And as far as finding any post of yours prior to RG, I can't, 'cause you know as well as I that GT, uhhh, tanked :o all their threads prior to RG this year.

Bri. You don't like Justine. I know it, you know it. Why deny it? :confused:

And who cares???

lizchris
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:22 AM
Liz, when Venus starts 2004 her #11 ranking will anger her and motivate her to get back to the top. Let's hope her abdominal strain is behind her for good. I have no doubt Venus has the desire to play great tennis again. But can she finally overcome this lingering abdominal strain? That's a tough injury for any athlete to overcome.

She said she is about 90% recovered. She also said her biggest mistake was to play the French Open. I also think she should have pulled out of doubles at Wimbeldon when their matches were delayed over and over again.

lizchris
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:25 AM
That's SOOO not true, Bri. I'm not saying you're a liar, because you're not, but your memory seems pretty subjective on this point.

And as far as finding any post of yours prior to RG, I can't, 'cause you know as well as I that GT, uhhh, tanked :o all their threads prior to RG this year.

Bri. You don't like Justine. I know it, you know it. Why deny it? :confused:

And who cares???

Actually, I was talking about this board.

Even if the old board at GoTennis was up, you still wouldn't be able to find anything, so give it up.

K-Dog
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:27 AM
Can Venus use a protected ranking? I heard it would be #4 , but I'm not sure.

JustineTime
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:31 AM
Actually, I was talking about this board.

Even if the old board at GoTennis was up, you still wouldn't be able to find anything, so give it up.

OK :)

But you're in de-NY-al! :p :lol:

vs1
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:32 AM
Congratulations Venus!! :) This shows why you are the queen!! With the limited number of events played and STILL you're at #11!!! That's definitely amazing!!! Next year, knock off one of those 1s and make it #1!!!! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Venus Forever
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:33 AM
Can Venus use a protected ranking? I heard it would be #4 , but I'm not sure.

Protective ranking doesn't mean anything for seeding.

Protective ranking is only used to get people into tournaments that they could not get into because of their new low rankings. Since Venus can get into every tournament, even with this lower ranking from a six month lay off, the protective ranking has no use for her.

Veritas
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:33 AM
I actually agree with lizchris. Rankings don't matter much because in some cases, they don't reflect the true talent of some players. I mean, no way does Venus deserve to be outside the top 5. Mark my words...come 2004 AO, the top 8 seeds will wish Venus was ranked a little higher.

And I personally thought that Justine should've beaten Ai today. As a fan of Ai, I wholeheartedly agree that she's had an amazing season and deserves credit for what she's achieved. But against the world no.1 today, I doubt the majority would've even believed Ai could beat her, let alone in straight sets. Look at how Justine played against Jenn - she annihlated her 6-2, 6-1 :eek:

jellybelly
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:34 AM
I dont care what her ranking is she's still the goddess of tennis. GO Venus and GO Ai !!!! its about time someone had the ovaries to smack down the enfant terrible and her gamesmanship ways!!! GO AI WOOHOO TOP TEN BABY!!! Finally someone besides venus and serena who can smack justine back in place!!!

looks like everybody give up on Kim :tears:

K-Dog
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:41 AM
Protective ranking doesn't mean anything for seeding.

Protective ranking is only used to get people into tournaments that they could not get into because of their new low rankings. Since Venus can get into every tournament, even with this lower ranking from a six month lay off, the protective ranking has no use for her.



Then how come in the summer of 2002, Davenport was seeded 4 at the US Open and when Monica returned to the tour in 1995, she was co#1. Or did the events seed Monica and Davenport higher?

lizchris
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:42 AM
Protective ranking doesn't mean anything for seeding.

Protective ranking is only used to get people into tournaments that they could not get into because of their new low rankings. Since Venus can get into every tournament, even with this lower ranking from a six month lay off, the protective ranking has no use for her.

VF, I think he/she means protected seeding at tournaments.

I remember Lindsay was given a protected seeding for the first 8 or 9 tournaments she played in when she came back from injury.

lizchris
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:44 AM
OK :)

But you're in de-NY-al! :p :lol:

I'll take that to mean your mouth wrote a check you ass couldn't cash.

Trish101
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:54 AM
Unlike most of you im a lil surprised shes out of the top 10...she mad 2 slam finals...and so im just a lil confused, then again she is totally unsuportive towards the wta on most levels.

jellybelly
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:57 AM
yes rankings system suck because Venus not high enough but rankings system great because it reward Venus top 10 despite 6 tourneys :worship:

Fingon
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:57 AM
I may not be Ms. Cleo but I wasn't born last night either.

Explain this to me:

Justine's Day 1 - Went down 5-0 in the first set to Myskina, took an injury time out and was able to win seven games in a row?

Justine's Day 2 - Able to easily beat Jennifer (though injured, apparently wasn't as injured as she lead us to believe)

Justine's Day 3 - Not able to take a set off a person who she can beat and probably has beaten?


I don't know why I bother, but I'll try.

Myskina choked big time. Justine wasn't physically well and Myskina didn't take her chances.

Capriati played like crap, Justine didn't need to do much.

Against Ai, all Justine had to win were 35 quality point. Not only she had clinched a spot in the semis, but also the top position in her group.

Under those circumnstances, and considering that she isn't 100% physically, it's natural that she won't feel motivated to fight for a match that means nothing to her, especially considering she has to play a semifinals match tomorrow.

That's not tanking, I have no evidence (neither do you) that she deliberately lost the match, did she try her best? certainly not, which is understandable, should she risk her body just to win a match that won't help her?

Concentration and motivation are very important in tennis, when a player doesn't feel motivated, won't play at her best. Same happened in Amelia Island this year, you would think that after winning a tier 1 and beating Serena she would not have a problem against Dementieva, but she did.

Funny, you don't seem bothered by Capriati who also could only take 3 sets off an ill player and yet today she managed to win a tough 3 sets match, or if it doesn't affect Venus it's ok?

last but not least, have you thought that Sugiyama is a good player? she is a top 10, won two tournaments and beat Kim Clijsters in one of them, is it so strange that a player that is having the best year of her career beats a player, certainly better but that isn't at her best physically and that also has no motivation at all for that match? I don't think so.

Knizzle
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:58 AM
I don't know why I bother, but I'll try.

Myskina choked big time. Justine wasn't physically well and Myskina didn't take her chances.

Capriati played like crap, Justine didn't need to do much.

Against Ai, all Justine had to win were 35 quality point. Not only she had clinched a spot in the semis, but also the top position in her group.

Under those circumnstances, and considering that she isn't 100% physically, it's natural that she won't feel motivated to fight for a match that means nothing to her, especially considering she has to play a semifinals match tomorrow.

That's not tanking, I have no evidence (neither do you) that she deliberately lost the match, did she try her best? certainly not, which is understandable, should she risk her body just to win a match that won't help her?

Concentration and motivation are very important in tennis, when a player doesn't feel motivated, won't play at her best. Same happened in Amelia Island this year, you would think that after winning a tier 1 and beating Serena she would not have a problem against Dementieva, but she did.

Funny, you don't seem bothered by Capriati who also could only take 3 sets off an ill player and yet today she managed to win a tough 3 sets match, or if it doesn't affect Venus it's ok?

last but not least, have you thought that Sugiyama is a good player? she is a top 10, won two tournaments and beat Kim Clijsters in one of them, is it so strange that a player that is having the best year of her career beats a player, certainly better but that isn't at her best physically and that also has no motivation at all for that match? I don't think so.

What you described sounds like tanking to me. I personally don't think she tanked, she just got beat.

TheBoiledEgg
Nov 9th, 2003, 04:01 AM
doesnt matter what she is ranked

if she was playing and still going down then its the time to cry.

we don't see Anna K is down to 300ish do we ??
or Asa Svensson, Anne Kremer either.

if you dont play its obvious your rank is gonna fall, no need to cry about it.

Mrs. Peel
Nov 9th, 2003, 04:01 AM
Look at how Justine played against Jenn - she annihlated her 6-2, 6-1 :eek:


Did you see this match? lol Justine had alot of help from Jennifer! Jennifer's attitude stank, her conditioning lacking, movement impaired. It was travesty to watch live... :eek:

lizchris
Nov 9th, 2003, 04:02 AM
I don't know why I bother, but I'll try.

Myskina choked big time. Justine wasn't physically well and Myskina didn't take her chances.

Capriati played like crap, Justine didn't need to do much.

Against Ai, all Justine had to win were 35 quality point. Not only she had clinched a spot in the semis, but also the top position in her group.

Under those circumnstances, and considering that she isn't 100% physically, it's natural that she won't feel motivated to fight for a match that means nothing to her, especially considering she has to play a semifinals match tomorrow.

That's not tanking, I have no evidence (neither do you) that she deliberately lost the match, did she try her best? certainly not, which is understandable, should she risk her body just to win a match that won't help her?

Concentration and motivation are very important in tennis, when a player doesn't feel motivated, won't play at her best. Same happened in Amelia Island this year, you would think that after winning a tier 1 and beating Serena she would not have a problem against Dementieva, but she did.

Funny, you don't seem bothered by Capriati who also could only take 3 sets off an ill player and yet today she managed to win a tough 3 sets match, or if it doesn't affect Venus it's ok?

last but not least, have you thought that Sugiyama is a good player? she is a top 10, won two tournaments and beat Kim Clijsters in one of them, is it so strange that a player that is having the best year of her career beats a player, certainly better but that isn't at her best physically and that also has no motivation at all for that match? I don't think so.

Don't get me started on Capriati, she is just as duplicitous as JHH.

BTW, if Justine wasn't 100% and wanted to save her energy for the semifinal, she shouldn't have played in the first place.

TheBoiledEgg
Nov 9th, 2003, 04:06 AM
she had to play

you cannot withdraw from a round robin tourn
if you withdraw, you're OUT.

JustineTime
Nov 9th, 2003, 04:07 AM
I'll take that to mean your mouth wrote a check you ass couldn't cash.

WOW! I was being friendly. My Bad! :o

Thanks for showing me the light!

Fingon
Nov 9th, 2003, 04:07 AM
Don't get me started on Capriati, she is just as duplicitous as JHH.

BTW, if Justine wasn't 100% and wanted to save her energy for the semifinal, she shouldn't have played in the first place.


oh yes, and the organizers would be so happy!!!

FYI there are very heavy fines for not playing unless they have very good medical reasons. Justine may be weak but obviously can play so she wouldn't be excused.

The WTA is trying really hard to make this event work, they won't be happy if a player, especially the new # 1 pulls out of a match.

or are you telling me she should've pulled out so Sugiyama didn't get the quality points and Venus stayed as # 10?

TheBoiledEgg
Nov 9th, 2003, 04:11 AM
if you didnt have to play
dont you think Kim wouldn't have bothered playing 2 1/2 hours yesterday and saved her ass for the Semis ???

once you withdraw, you can't get back in.

its a good rule.

Veritas
Nov 9th, 2003, 04:15 AM
Don't get me started on Capriati, she is just as duplicitous as JHH.

BTW, if Justine wasn't 100% and wanted to save her energy for the semifinal, she shouldn't have played in the first place.

Please...are you trying to say that it's impossible for a player to play badly on one day and improve the next? Just because Jenn was crushed by the H-H racquet, doesn't mean that she can't pick her game up and reverse her focus. So please...don't call Jenn "duplicitous". She has one very lovely face.

As for Justine, why shouldn't she not play? She's got nothing to lose and probably wanted to gain more competitive practice for her semi final match-up against Amelie tomorrow. What's wrong with that? (And anyway, she did the crowd at LA a favour, seeing that this year's event is terrible w/o the Williams).

Venus Forever
Nov 9th, 2003, 04:42 AM
Then how come in the summer of 2002, Davenport was seeded 4 at the US Open and when Monica returned to the tour in 1995, she was co#1. Or did the events seed Monica and Davenport higher?

As Lizchris pointed out, those were protective seedings, not protective rankings.

Protective seedings are not guaranteed, it's all up to the WTA on whether they want to give a player one or not. They don't have to give Venus or Monica anything for next year, it just depends on what they want to do with the situations.

katrientje
Nov 9th, 2003, 05:09 AM
I don't worry about Venus being ranked 11 and I am sure she doesn't either.
If she stays healthy she will soon be back were she belong, top 3 or higher!

Crazy Canuck
Nov 9th, 2003, 05:19 AM
I'm fairly confident that Venus' ranking is more important to you idiots than it is to Venus, Justine, Ai, or Jenn. So really... get some fucking perspectivie.

Kart
Nov 9th, 2003, 12:48 PM
I didn't realise that Ai had beaten Justine :D

Congratulations AI :D

Ending the season in the top ten :D

Well done :D

As for Venus, don't bother about the the ranking, I'm sure she'll come back strong and be back in the top five in no time :cool:.

Paneru
Nov 9th, 2003, 02:53 PM
It's is sad and very hard to believe that she's at #11.
However, I look at the bright side. Who else can say that they're ranked #11 with only 6 tournaments under their belt. She's played the least amount on tournaments than anyone in the top 30 or higher IIRC.

Also, what excites me is two things. Venus' desire and hunger will be greater than ever and the best thing is the QP's she'll get in playing against the top top above her.

So, I look for Venus to reach either 1 or 2 in 04'.
She need only duplicate this years results and add a few more tournaments and she's back top 4 easily.

2004 is going to be an exciting year!
Just stay healthy Venus! ;) :kiss:

Diya
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:35 PM
:sad: :sad:

When was the last time Venus Williams ended the year outside of the top 10 ? :sad:

Paneru
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:39 PM
:sad: :sad:

When was the last time Venus Williams ended the year outside of the top 10 ? :sad:

97' I think.

bandabou
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:41 PM
This is the first time since ´98 that Venus has the end the year outside of the top FIVE!!! and then to fall this down.

Infiniti2001
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:41 PM
:sad: :sad:

When was the last time Venus Williams ended the year outside of the top 10 ? :sad:

Not that I think you genuinely care :tape: but it was 1997-- her first full year on the tour :eek:

bandabou
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:44 PM
In fact, every year since ´98 BOTH Williamses have ended in the top 5, save´01.

Doraemon
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:47 PM
I don't see why we have to make it such a big deal. She only played six tournaments this year and it's just slightly better than taking a full season off due to injuires. It's not like she lost many matches and other players have gotten better than her. She knows she's still better than most of the players ranked above her and we all know it's true. She may not be as dominant against the Belgians as she used to be but she still is capable of beating them on a regular basis until the duo prove against it. The fact is Venus still holds a positive head-to-head record against both of them and the only player she has constantly lost to is her lil sis, Serena. Apart from the three, I don't see a player who can challenge her at the moment. Even the rapidly improving Russian girls, I don't think, will match in the next seaons or so. It may be bizzar to see her ranked outside of the top 10 but it's in a way simliar to Steffi being ranked outside of the top 30 due to cronicle injuires in some period of 1998 before her late charge to get back to the top 10. I think it's just way too eary to worry about her. When she starts losing to those ranked above her on a regular basis, then it will be the time. I just don't see that happening, though.

Paneru
Nov 9th, 2003, 03:51 PM
I don't see why we have to make it such a big deal. She only played six tournaments this year and it's just slightly better than taking a full season off due to injuires. It's not like she lost many matches and other players have gotten better than her. She knows she's still better than most of the players ranked above her and we all know it's true. She may not be as dominant against the Belgians as she used to be but she still is capable of beating them on a regular basis until the duo prove against it. The fact is Venus still holds a positive head-to-head record against both of them and the only player she has constantly lost to is her lil sis, Serena. Apart from the three, I don't see a player who can challenge her at the moment. Even the rapidly improving Russian girls, I don't think, will match in the next seaons or so. It may be bizzar to see her ranked outside of the top 10 but it's in a way simliar to Steffi being ranked outside of the top 30 due to cronicle injuires in some period of 1998 before her late charge to get back to the top 10. I think it's just way too eary to worry about her. When she starts losing to those ranked above her on a regular basis, then it will be the time. I just don't see that happening, though.

:yeah:

Infiniti2001
Nov 9th, 2003, 04:08 PM
I don't see why we have to make it such a big deal. She only played six tournaments this year and it's just slightly better than taking a full season off due to injuires. It's not like she lost many matches and other players have gotten better than her. She knows she's still better than most of the players ranked above her and we all know it's true. She may not be as dominant against the Belgians as she used to be but she still is capable of beating them on a regular basis until the duo prove against it. The fact is Venus still holds a positive head-to-head record against both of them and the only player she has constantly lost to is her lil sis, Serena. Apart from the three, I don't see a player who can challenge her at the moment. Even the rapidly improving Russian girls, I don't think, will match in the next seaons or so. It may be bizzar to see her ranked outside of the top 10 but it's in a way simliar to Steffi being ranked outside of the top 30 due to cronicle injuires in some period of 1998 before her late charge to get back to the top 10. I think it's just way too eary to worry about her. When she starts losing to those ranked above her on a regular basis, then it will be the time. I just don't see that happening, though.

While I still don't understand the need for this thread I couldn't have said it any better ;)

bandabou
Nov 9th, 2003, 04:10 PM
Yep. No big deal. Too bad her streak in the top 10 ended...but she still is a MAJOR force and EVERYBODY knows that.

right1
Nov 9th, 2003, 04:16 PM
all streaks come to a end

bandabou
Nov 9th, 2003, 04:18 PM
Indeed....it was evitable, but Ai played too good yesterday for Justine, I guess.

right1
Nov 9th, 2003, 04:25 PM
Indeed....it was evitable, but Ai played too good yesterday for Justine, I guess.
I guess Justine was to good of Serena at the Fench ;) :p :lol:

Mariolona-fan
Nov 9th, 2003, 04:41 PM
What could be Venus' ranking if she won't reach the final in Australia..
:confused:

ghosts
Nov 9th, 2003, 04:51 PM
OMG Venus :sad:

Jennifer's wife
Nov 9th, 2003, 05:00 PM
well, first reaction is of course :devil: but then if u think about it, she could beat most of the top ten anyway so she will be beating them in early rounds, getting muchos quality points and soaring back up the top ten rankings quicker than if she was like numba 5 or sumthing. So people shouldnt get too smug coz she'll probly be beating your fave in the QF at the AO. Or mine knowing my luck.....:rolleyes:

lizchris
Nov 9th, 2003, 05:16 PM
well, first reaction is of course :devil: but then if u think about it, she could beat most of the top ten anyway so she will be beating them in early rounds, getting muchos quality points and soaring back up the top ten rankings quicker than if she was like numba 5 or sumthing. So people shouldnt get too smug coz she'll probly be beating your fave in the QF at the AO. Or mine knowing my luck.....:rolleyes:

Venus has a winning record against everyone in the top ten except Serena and she has a comanding H2H against the incoming number one (Justine), Amelie, Jennifer, Elena, Anastasia, Chanda and Ai. Plus she has never lost a match against Jennifer, Elena, Anastasia and Ai.

Jennifer's wife
Nov 9th, 2003, 05:18 PM
^^yes, i think that was what i was saying in my own non tennis educated kind of way :unsure:

bandabou
Nov 9th, 2003, 05:44 PM
I guess Justine was to good of Serena at the Fench ;) :p :lol:

Of course....

dubro
Nov 9th, 2003, 05:46 PM
yep, venus is simply overrated :p :p

she is 11 only becuase deserves it :D :D :D

Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 9th, 2003, 06:33 PM
I don't know why I bother, but I'll try.

Myskina choked big time. Justine wasn't physically well and Myskina didn't take her chances.

Capriati played like crap, Justine didn't need to do much.

Against Ai, all Justine had to win were 35 quality point. Not only she had clinched a spot in the semis, but also the top position in her group.

Under those circumnstances, and considering that she isn't 100% physically, it's natural that she won't feel motivated to fight for a match that means nothing to her, especially considering she has to play a semifinals match tomorrow.

That's not tanking, I have no evidence (neither do you) that she deliberately lost the match, did she try her best? certainly not, which is understandable, should she risk her body just to win a match that won't help her?

Concentration and motivation are very important in tennis, when a player doesn't feel motivated, won't play at her best. Same happened in Amelia Island this year, you would think that after winning a tier 1 and beating Serena she would not have a problem against Dementieva, but she did.

Funny, you don't seem bothered by Capriati who also could only take 3 sets off an ill player and yet today she managed to win a tough 3 sets match, or if it doesn't affect Venus it's ok?

last but not least, have you thought that Sugiyama is a good player? she is a top 10, won two tournaments and beat Kim Clijsters in one of them, is it so strange that a player that is having the best year of her career beats a player, certainly better but that isn't at her best physically and that also has no motivation at all for that match? I don't think so.

Sugiyama beat her ass. Period. Justine can't win everything and if she did "lack motivation" then that in my opinion is a tank and if she did that she's even more pathetic than I originally thought. I'm glad she Ai spanked her ass across the court. Who cares what ranking venus is when she's been injured and only has six tournaments and still ranked in the top twenty.

GO AI at least someone other than serena and venus have the ovaries to smack justine down.

bandabou
Nov 9th, 2003, 06:37 PM
yep, venus is simply overrated :p :p

she is 11 only becuase deserves it :D :D :D

of course...

Knizzle
Nov 9th, 2003, 06:41 PM
Yes Venus is ranked 11 but we all know why. She failed to defend 3 titles because of injury and one GS final and a SF at the championships. That's over 2000 points, not to mention what she lost by being hobbled at the French. It's not as if she was losing or chose not to play after Wimbledon. If she gets a special seeding at the beginning of the year, then none of this will really matter because she only has 6 tournaments to defend in the first 7 months next year and she will be gaining for the rest of the year. The way the rankings work, she really has set herself up to be able to make a push for #1 like Serena did in 2002. Serena started the year at #9 and got to #1 by Wimbledon.

bandabou
Nov 9th, 2003, 06:56 PM
Yep.....it is all up to her. Hey, I´m sensing the same pattern here!!

DEETHELICK
Nov 9th, 2003, 08:19 PM
So will Venus get a special seed next year?

I'm just thinking of the knock on effect that will have on Elena (i.e. falling out of the QF seeding tier).

Venus should get one, she deserves it and I hope Elena plays a small event to boost her points and get her in the Top 7.

Trish101
Nov 10th, 2003, 12:44 AM
enough about Venus, lets talk about Marat Safin...hes got a nice ass huh?

Ballbuster
Nov 10th, 2003, 12:46 AM
you are right Trish, and NO we we. Actually, there isn't any men in ATP with any. So you can never be satisfied like you really likes.