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View Full Version : Whos the Better Baseliner? : Jennifer or Kim?***IMPORTANT*


Trish101
Nov 5th, 2003, 04:56 AM
Im starting this thread because one of my coworkers (Amy Dumas aka : LITA) thinks Kim clijsters is the better baseliner, but i argue shes only better at retrieving but Jen is the harder baseliner, tennis power wise.

If i had to choose, or you for that matter, the bigger more hard hitting woman, id go with Jennifer, she has all the groundstroke weapons to be a really good baseliner, but if i wanted to go for quikness and defense, Kim by the edge, shes a tad faster and she always gets those hard balls back, forcing you to hit another winner.

You should look at movement, pace on the ball, groundstroke weapons (forhand, backhand) technique, agility, indurance, depth of the ball, and placement. Serve is not a factor and recent results shouldnt influence your decision, this is talent only please. Please stay as un-biased as possible, id say they are pretty equal...but Jens the heavyer hitter.

-Trish :wavey:

Venus Forever
Nov 5th, 2003, 05:00 AM
Jen, both power and consistency.

Trish101
Nov 5th, 2003, 05:01 AM
im gonna go with Jennifer, she just has better technique, more weapons and on court presence...people are intimidated just hearing her name.

Venus Forever
Nov 5th, 2003, 05:02 AM
im gonna go with Jennifer...

What a surprise!! :eek:

Trish101
Nov 5th, 2003, 05:03 AM
and she can hit a forhand that Steffie herself help make the great shot it is today (most of you may not know this, But Steffie Graff helped jennifer get back on the tour, and really mentored her back)

skanky~skanketta
Nov 5th, 2003, 05:03 AM
kim. being a heavier hitter does NOT make you a better baseliner. and having a presence on court does not either.movement, endurance, agility for jen? you're kidding right? she's great in these departments, but kim is better.

Trish101
Nov 5th, 2003, 05:05 AM
LMAO...touche touche, but i could say the same about you...VENUS FOREVER! (is that venus's name i seeee???? LOL, i wonder whod you say if i put venus beside Jennifer??)

VeNuS FoReVeR: ill have to say Venus on this one....

Trish101
Nov 5th, 2003, 05:07 AM
Jen wasnt the girl on a hospital bed after losing a three hour match, was she? Hun Jen is made of harder stuff than your willies, she can stand the heat QAND give it...so i think im right and YOUR wrong, its my thread anyways, so i can say whatever i want!


HA!

UDiTY
Nov 5th, 2003, 05:12 AM
I think Kim has a better baseline game...she can hit cross-court and down the line with both wings and really moves well along the baseline.

Jenn does the same for the most part, but Kim's equal off both sides and Jenn seems to favor the big forehand weapon. But Jenn is less streaky, her forehand doesn't break down half as much as Kims.

So I dunno, it's pretty close. All-around/All-court game I would definitel say Kim but baseline game I think is pretty equal now that I think about it. :p

Venus Forever
Nov 5th, 2003, 05:18 AM
LMAO...touche touche, but i could say the same about you...VENUS FOREVER! (is that venus's name i seeee???? LOL, i wonder whod you say if i put venus beside Jennifer??)

VeNuS FoReVeR: ill have to say Venus on this one....

:lol: :lol:

No doubt about it. It's just that posted it as if you really had to think about it, without knowing who you would choose. :lol:

;)

azza
Nov 5th, 2003, 05:24 AM
Jen has more power

pReUrBrIyN
Nov 5th, 2003, 05:31 AM
Jen and Kim have equal power but Jen is more consitent on both sides, when Kim can really break down on her forehand.

bello
Nov 5th, 2003, 05:39 AM
JENN!!!...endurance, power, groundies..!

disposablehero
Nov 5th, 2003, 05:41 AM
I love how you always put *IMPORTANT* on your jen-aggrandizing threads, which are actually about as important as goat turd on the side of a mountain.

Anyhow, it's a pretty simple equation. Both are baseliners. Kim beats much better opponents, and doesn't let Alex Stevenson own her on a regular basis. So Kim.

Oh, and when you run into the teenaged boy who pretends to be Amy Dumas in your fantasy world, tell him I am a big fan of the wrestler he pretends to be on the internet.

Trish101
Nov 5th, 2003, 07:16 AM
hun, ok ill do that, have a good day...dont overdoo the medication!

-thanks for the feedback, other than that windbag ^^^^up there the replies have been pretty nice all around, wether its been kim or otherwise, i see though that ^^^ has a major PERSONAL issue with me, so bring it bitch, im not afraid of you, just BARIIING it.

Trish101
Nov 5th, 2003, 07:19 AM
And the sad thing is, hes canadian...ugh, well theres bad apples in all countries i suppose.

dont get personal with me Disposable, just post your opinion and get lost, nobody needs or wants to hear you run oof your filthy mouth at me, ok?

You are a pain in the ass and i am getting sick of listening to your spewing garbage, watch your back boy, cause your next.

earthcrystal
Nov 5th, 2003, 07:47 AM
I love how you always put *IMPORTANT* on your jen-aggrandizing threads, which are actually about as important as goat turd on the side of a mountain.

Anyhow, it's a pretty simple equation. Both are baseliners. Kim beats much better opponents, and doesn't let Alex Stevenson own her on a regular basis. So Kim.

Oh, and when you run into the teenaged boy who pretends to be Amy Dumas in your fantasy world, tell him I am a big fan of the wrestler he pretends to be on the internet.
Ah, now this was worth scrolling down for!

:kiss:

Trish: Don't worry, I'm sure dh's issues with you aren't personal at all; he has problems with imbeciles in general.

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 5th, 2003, 07:51 AM
Come on guys, you don't have to be mean; we need more celebrity look-alikes. "Trish" rules. :kiss:

I vote for Kim.

tennisIlove09
Nov 5th, 2003, 07:52 AM
Power--Jennifer (especially off forehand)
Consistency--Jennifer

I'd say Jennifer. I think the reason Kim does so well recently is because she runs every thing down, or she slides everything down

BasicTennis
Nov 5th, 2003, 07:57 AM
Kim...she has more variations in her game and Jennifer has no talent to do the "Kim split".:haha:

switz
Nov 5th, 2003, 07:58 AM
i'm not going to get involved, but i have to agree that use of important in every thread is amusing.

capriati is better in terms of talent IMO, but if talent was actually the most important factor then all my favourties would be in the top 5, but alas they are not. i think capriati has shown that when she plays well she is almost impossible to outperform, and only her head can save her opponents.

clijsters will have a better career IMO, but i don't think her shots are better. if you add in all the other factors involved in assessing a baseline game i would have to givr clijsters gets the nod.

DEETHELICK
Nov 5th, 2003, 09:01 AM
Our commentators at Eurosport said that Kim is so successful as she always get one extra ball back (heck, even two or three balls). To shorten the rallies against Kim, you have to go up the court. Kim also slices a lot when on the defensive.

Jennifer is great at the baseline because she doesn't slice as much, i.e. she is always ready to hit a groundstroke from the back of the court.

In terms of strategy from the back of the court, I'd say Kim has a slight edge, she uses great angles to open up the court.

In relation to consistency and power (which can overwhelm opponents on the other side) Jen has an edge.

If I were to say who is a better baseliner in today's game, I'd say Jennifer. Power and consistency are something I'd love to have on a tennis court.

Jeff
Nov 5th, 2003, 09:06 AM
Tough question, because I think both of these players' games revolves around their baseline ability.

But...I think Kim edges it out. Jennifer has the power, and can dominate if those power strokes are hitting...but Kim has the variation, and power as well. Not as powerful as Jennifer, but when comparing the two, Kim has both and Jen has only the power.

Come-on-kim
Nov 5th, 2003, 11:02 AM
I think both are very good baseliner!

Zhao
Nov 5th, 2003, 12:11 PM
Jenn...Her technique is superb
Whenever the both engages in groundstroke rallies
its always Jenn who slugs it out......

justine&coria
Nov 5th, 2003, 12:27 PM
im gonna go with Jennifer, she just has better technique, more weapons and on court presence...people are intimidated just hearing her name.

So you're answering to your own questions !!!:worship:

Anyway, I think Kim is a better baseliner.
Both almost always play from the baseline. And when Kim plays Capriati, Kim is expected to win.
So Kim is just a better baseliner !

switz
Nov 5th, 2003, 12:44 PM
And when Kim plays Capriati, Kim is expected to win.
So Kim is just a better baseliner !
Kim CLIJSTERS (BEL) v Jennifer CAPRIATI (USA)

*



1999**
Philadelphia**
Carpet*(I)**
32**
Jennifer CAPRIATI**
5-7 3-6 *

2001**
French Open**
Clay*(O)**
FR**
Jennifer CAPRIATI**
6-1 4-6 10-12 *

2002**
Australian Open**
Hard*(O)**
SF**
Jennifer CAPRIATI**
5-7 6-3 1-6 *

2003**
Berlin**
Clay*(O)**
SF**
Kim CLIJSTERS**
6-4 6-7(2) 6-4 *

2003**
Stanford**
Hard*(O)**
FR**
Kim CLIJSTERS**
4-6 6-4 6-2 *

Jennifer CAPRIATI (USA) leads 3 : 2

clijsters has won the last two, but they were still close. clijsters doesn't volley traditonally very often, but she constantly finishes balls with her swinging volleys, so i don't think it's as simple as kim is ranked higher therefore she's better. personally i think over the course of the year she is the better baseliner, but i also think that an 'on' capriati would be to much for kim and most other players on tour to handle

wateva
Nov 5th, 2003, 01:37 PM
jennifer's game is so predictable. she seldom goes for down the line shots. she'll just give another cross-court when the other side of the court is wide open. i think that's the main reason for losing to justine in us open semis. she had her chances but was unwilling to take the risk. kim on the other hand, would open up the court with her cross-court forehand and send a down the line winner. thus, in terms of game intelligence, kim is the better player.

MisterQ
Nov 5th, 2003, 02:22 PM
I give Jen the edge. Her ability to hit hard flat accurate strokes from defensive positions is pretty impressive, and she is also great at defensive lobs. And of course her more offensive shots are powerful and precise. Kim is close behind, however.

SerialKiller#69
Nov 5th, 2003, 02:46 PM
Kim.She thrives on it.

Trish101
Nov 5th, 2003, 07:20 PM
More people are saying Jennifer is the better player, surprise surprise heh heh.

Trish101
Nov 5th, 2003, 07:20 PM
*IMPORTANT* is important...my threads are important...beacaus i dont post threads that oten...so when i do they are important!

disposablehero
Nov 5th, 2003, 09:05 PM
More people are saying Jennifer is the better player, surprise surprise heh heh.

What more people think doesn't change which player won 8 titles this year and appeared in 2 Grand Slam Finals.

Lindsay A Davenport
Nov 5th, 2003, 09:08 PM
Today, Kim's game is much more impressive than Jen's.

tennisluver99
Nov 5th, 2003, 09:17 PM
Kim is better.

Venus Forever
Nov 5th, 2003, 09:29 PM
What more people think doesn't change which player won 8 titles this year and appeared in 2 Grand Slam Finals.

This thread was about this year?? I thought it was about being the better baseliner, for their entire career.

jenny161185
Nov 5th, 2003, 09:32 PM
jennifer,slighty.

disposablehero
Nov 5th, 2003, 09:39 PM
This thread was about this year?? I thought it was about being the better baseliner, for their entire career.

Monica.

~KKman~
Nov 5th, 2003, 09:58 PM
i think there has been some threads about this,
Jen has always been aggressive while Kim just plays
too defensive when the play each other,
Kim does hit more topspins and heavier tho,
and Kim plays with brains more, while Jen
just hits and hits w/o thinking like the commentators said,
there's a reason Kim is the best indoor player there is
but there is really no "better or worse".....
i just prefer Kim's playing style more,
it suits more surfaces than Jen while Jen
can only play on slower surfaces...

switz
Nov 5th, 2003, 10:03 PM
What more people think doesn't change which player won 8 titles this year and appeared in 2 Grand Slam Finals.

Capriati 3 GS - Clijsters 0 GS ;)

CapFan#1
Nov 5th, 2003, 10:07 PM
Capriati 3 GS - Clijsters 0 GS ;)


:worship: Enough said! Thank you and good night, put this thread to bed!!! :wavey:

Trish101
Nov 5th, 2003, 10:45 PM
give me a breaK, monica best baseliner? that slow poke? give me a break, she was the best for 2 years tops, that doesnt make her the best ever, woulda couklda should BUT she didnt...so i cant even count her. Besiders Jennifer has better groundstrokes than monica, and there hit harder...mostly because she has muscle in the arms, not fat tissue.

switz
Nov 5th, 2003, 10:56 PM
give me a breaK, monica best baseliner? that slow poke? give me a break, she was the best for 2 years tops, that doesnt make her the best ever, woulda couklda should BUT she didnt...so i cant even count her. Besiders Jennifer has better groundstrokes than monica, and there hit harder...mostly because she has muscle in the arms, not fat tissue.

good way to encourage intelligent conversation.

Trish101
Nov 5th, 2003, 11:10 PM
i know!

Malin
Nov 5th, 2003, 11:12 PM
umm Jen has three grandslams and a gold medal, she is obviously the better player and the better baseliner

disposablehero
Nov 5th, 2003, 11:20 PM
umm Jen has three grandslams and a gold medal, she is obviously the better player and the better baseliner

Jen is a better player because she won an event 11 years ago that the best player in the world wasn't allowed to enter?

switz
Nov 5th, 2003, 11:35 PM
god some people are stupid. you can't just take random events and use them as the fundamental evidence in a discussion of this nature. so far we have heard that clijsters is better because she has had a better year and that capriati is better because she has won some slams. is kafelnikov a better baseliner than ferrero just because he has won more slams? or ferrero a better baseliner than agassi just because he won RG this year? you can't make wide reaching statements on the basis of a few results, especially when comparing players at such different points in their respective careers.

there hasn't been much decent analysis of their games, which was something i think trish was trying to cater for in her original post by laying out all the categories which make up being a baseliner. i don't really give a shit who's the better baseliner, but personally i think clijsters' willingness to come forward and employ her swinging volleys more often than not means that she is not simply a baseliner, and hence that this discussion is not really worth getting into.

bandabou
Nov 5th, 2003, 11:52 PM
It doesn´t matter...because none of them is better than Serena anyways! There. ;)

magassi
Nov 6th, 2003, 12:09 AM
Jennifer did beat the best player in the world at the 1992 Olympic games: her name was Steffi Graf. Steffi was the best player then, and one of the all-time greats.

Leo_DFP
Nov 6th, 2003, 12:09 AM
Please stay as un-biased as possible, id say they are pretty equal

:lol: And you're not biased?

Before this year I would have said that Jennifer is the better ball-striker and heavier hitter. Now I'm not so sure. If you watch Capriati's matches nowadays versus the Willies, the Belgians, and Davenport, you'll see that she's always the more defensive player while her opponent is more of the aggressor - Kim included.

bandabou
Nov 6th, 2003, 12:15 AM
:lol: And you're not biased?

Before this year I would have said that Jennifer is the better ball-striker and heavier hitter. Now I'm not so sure. If you watch Capriati's matches nowadays versus the Willies, the Belgians, and Davenport, you'll see that she's always the more defensive player while her opponent is more of the aggressor - Kim included.

Yep.....and when you´re more defensive than KIM, then you know that you REALLY are defensive.

switz
Nov 6th, 2003, 12:16 AM
:lol: And you're not biased?

Before this year I would have said that Jennifer is the better ball-striker and heavier hitter. Now I'm not so sure. If you watch Capriati's matches nowadays versus the Willies, the Belgians, and Davenport, you'll see that she's always the more defensive player while her opponent is more of the aggressor - Kim included.

that's mainly of her own doing. she often comes out freely in the first set, wins its convincingly, and then when she gets to point where she can take the match she gets scared and starts playing with too much margin for error and the top players just eat her up (see capriati vs serena at wimbledon, capriati vs kim at stanford, capriati vs henin at the US Open)

bandabou
Nov 6th, 2003, 12:20 AM
Against Serena it is understandable.....NO ONE can really stay with Serena for three-sets. But against Kim, Jen really should be the agressor most of the time. For a player who´s been compared to Hewitt, Jen sure crumbles under pressure a bit too much imo.

Malin
Nov 6th, 2003, 12:36 AM
Jen is a better player because she won an event 11 years ago that the best player in the world wasn't allowed to enter?

let it go man, she's done, and it's not Jen's fault, Monica didn't represent her country so she couldn't play

Trish101
Nov 6th, 2003, 12:48 AM
if i was biased i wouldnt have put kim in Jens catagory, i would simply have said Jen, rambled on about how Kim and serena vee, ecy suck...but since i didnt you cannot judge me.

I think Kim and jen are similar in there games...but im just basing my decision (jen) on the way she plays, shes stronger and hits harder than kim, she also has the better technique, and she can keep up the pace throughout a match, if she doesnt have a mental crisis...shes a tough cookie, kims just a cookie, not tough.

disposablehero
Nov 6th, 2003, 01:40 AM
Jennifer did beat the best player in the world at the 1992 Olympic games: her name was Steffi Graf. Steffi was the best player then, and one of the all-time greats.
:haha: :haha: :haha:

Trish101
Nov 6th, 2003, 01:59 AM
disposable, she was....what did you think monica was the best? hahahahaha she only won 8 slams! and Graff had like 18 @ the time!!! your crazy.

Venus Forever
Nov 6th, 2003, 02:20 AM
Monica.

The threads about Jen and Kim.

Looks like you didn't want to admit that as of right now, Jen's baseline career just does not add up to Kim's, otherwise you wouldn't have brought up Monica. :o

Ryan
Nov 6th, 2003, 02:38 AM
Jen > Kim, despite sucking against her for some reason. Hmm.


Monica > Kim, Jenn, Henin, Mauresmo, Lindsay combined. Nuff said.

Trish101
Nov 6th, 2003, 02:42 AM
wow i guess being more talented than ^^^ all those girls couldnt help save her career from ruin now could it? ;)

Ryan
Nov 6th, 2003, 02:44 AM
wow i guess being more talented than ^^^ all those girls couldnt help save her career from ruin now could it? ;)


No, but it made her career better then everyone mentioned above, the fact that she's INJURED now is irrelevant.

disposablehero
Nov 7th, 2003, 01:19 AM
The threads about Jen and Kim.

Looks like you didn't want to admit that as of right now, Jen's baseline career just does not add up to Kim's, otherwise you wouldn't have brought up Monica. :o

Nope, just once again using the opponents criteria. He asked "Whos" (Who IS) the better baseliner. IS being a present tense word. And in the present, Kim is quite obviously a better baseliner than Jen. She was at this time last year, and its become increasingly more obvious ever since. He wanted to change it to a career comparison once the present became clearly a lost cause. He did so because the entire career is something he could actually claim for Jen. So I tossed Monica at him. He changed the criteria because he didn't want a fair fight, so I didn't give him one.

Trish101
Nov 7th, 2003, 01:36 AM
him? im a her hunny, but then again i didnt change any criteria...