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View Full Version : Wertheim: Kimīs third-best at best.


bandabou
Oct 20th, 2003, 11:00 PM
This is what Wertheim had to say about Kimīs no.1 rank:

If Kim Clijsters regains her No.1 ranking by the end of the year, do you think she'd deserve the WTA Player of the Year award? --Rajendra Parihar, New Delhi, India

Rankings be damned, even if Clijsters defends her title in L.A. at the Bank of America Tour Championships in November (and thus, almost assuredly, finishes as No. 1) she's still the third-place finisher in Player-of-the-Year honors behind Henin-Hardenne and Serena, in that order. Yes, Williams Nation, you read right. I agree that, in a vacuum, Serena is the superior player. But let's be objective: JH-H won more titles, just as many Slams, played many more events and had a superior head-to-head record.

Judging from your mail, however, there's way too much hostility toward Clijsters. Sure she loads up on events and her ranking is largely a result of her expertly playing the numbers game. But these players can't win. When the Williams sisters play a sparse schedule they stand accused of disrespecting the sport. When Clijsters (to the delight of the tour and its promoters) plays early and often, she gets ripped trying to beat the system. Is it embarrassing that Clijsters may well finish 2003 ranked No.1 , albeit without winning a Slam? (By the way, it could be the second time in three years that the WTA's year-end No. 1 has been Slam-less.) You bet. But blame the ranking system. Not the beneficiary.

Dang! So much for being no.1!!

SerenaSlam
Oct 20th, 2003, 11:06 PM
such a ture statement. the funnie thing is, when lindsay did it, she stated she wasn't deserving of number 1 at all. funnie thing is, kim thinks she is deserving :eek: :rolleyes:

faboozadoo15
Oct 20th, 2003, 11:11 PM
why don't you work your ass off and win nine titles and then u can tell the reporters you aren't the best..... she contended for every title, made almost every final... lindsay was only #1 bc venus only played 10 events, and jennifer sucked badly after wimbledon.

bandabou
Oct 20th, 2003, 11:15 PM
why don't you work your ass off and win nine titles and then u can tell the reporters you aren't the best..... she contended for every title, made almost every final... lindsay was only #1 bc venus only played 10 events, and jennifer sucked badly after wimbledon.

contend?! Her two slam-finals she got bageled and bradsticked....not really contending imo.

Peter M
Oct 20th, 2003, 11:24 PM
(By the way, it could be the second time in three years that the WTA's year-end No. 1 has been Slam-less.)

More like third in four years. :eek:

bandabou
Oct 20th, 2003, 11:27 PM
More like third in four years. :eek:

yeah...Martina in ī00 too....so only ī02 gave a true reflection of who really was Mama!!

faboozadoo15
Oct 20th, 2003, 11:35 PM
uhhh last time i checked, making the final makes u pretty damn good contender...

bandabou
Oct 20th, 2003, 11:37 PM
uhhh last time i checked, making the final makes u pretty damn good contender...

sure,sure....but the PLAY in those finals was NOWHERE near the caliber of a no.1 player

faboozadoo15
Oct 21st, 2003, 12:00 AM
that's 1 match after a string of six... everyone has bad days...

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 12:03 AM
that's 1 match after a string of six... everyone has bad days...

Of course...foolish of me to forget that! :banghead: Too bad they all happen at the slams...put her at a tier III and she can win it easily. Put her against the elite at slam and she barely wins games.

~ The Leopard ~
Oct 21st, 2003, 12:07 AM
I hope Kim does not end up as # 1 at the end of the year. If she does, I damn sure hope that she wins the YEC to get there.

This is not coz I dislike Kim. Quite the contrary, I like her a lot. She's an exciting player, seems like a nice person, is very consistent and can get wins over just about anyone. But it does look a bit bad when the end-of-year # 1 got there without a really big win and with someone seeming to have the edge over her head-to-head.

Still, if she does end up as # 1 at year end she'll have had a remarkable year in her way. I hope she doesn't cop too much flak for it. If she manages to win the YEC again it will give her more of a claim to be the "real" # 1.

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 12:30 AM
I hope Kim does not end up as # 1 at the end of the year. If she does, I damn sure hope that she wins the YEC to get there.

This is not coz I dislike Kim. Quite the contrary, I like her a lot. She's an exciting player, seems like a nice person, is very consistent and can get wins over just about anyone. But it does look a bit bad when the end-of-year # 1 got there without a really big win and with someone seeming to have the edge over her head-to-head.

Still, if she does end up as # 1 at year end she'll have had a remarkable year in her way. I hope she doesn't cop too much flak for it. If she manages to win the YEC again it will give her more of a claim to be the "real" # 1.

Considering her play at the big tournaments lately.....wouldnīt bet on that.

AjdeNate!
Oct 21st, 2003, 12:37 AM
Sf, Ru, Sf, Ru
Sf, W, Sf, W
Ru, R4, Ru, Dnp
W, Sf, W, Dnp

~ The Leopard ~
Oct 21st, 2003, 12:39 AM
I'll be rooting for Momo and Juju in that order at the YEC.

I take your point, bandabou, but if Kim does win by some chance, in a round robin against all the best players who are actually playing, it will make it a lot harder for us to say she is not deserving of #1. It will mean that her recent head-to-head against the those players is phenomenal, with the recent victory against Justine counted in.

I can't see it happening though.

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 12:44 AM
Sf, Ru, Sf, Ru
Sf, W, Sf, W
Ru, R4, Ru, Dnp
W, Sf, W, Dnp

I meant Kim...

harloo
Oct 21st, 2003, 01:15 AM
Weirthless should shut up! Kim played the system fair and square. If she ends the year at no.1 then she deserves it. Henin H has every opportunity to stop her.

BTW, this Kim doesn't deserve the #1 debate is getting tired. yes, Justine won 2 slams....and...................Kim still can take #1. The system has been like this for a long time, some people need to let it go and get over it. :rolleyes:

topspin
Oct 21st, 2003, 05:49 AM
Bandabou,

What's the difference between you posting and bringing up any and everything to devalue Kim's accomplishments for the 2003 season and someone who is ant-Williams doing the same thing?
Would you probably say people treat Venus and Serena unfairly?

Kim made #1. You said didn't win any slams to recognize as a true #1. Are you really saying you would have been satisfied if you would have maintained the 5-1 lead in the third set of her semi-match with Serena at the Australian Open which would have meant no Serena Slam?

If all the fans and even the players were to have the mentality "that only the slams matters and it is only the slams' results which counts," what would become of the non-slams tournaments and events? They would cease to exist and the WTA could possibly face the same fate as the Women's United Soccer Association(WUSA). It folded after three years of existence due to a lack of attendance, media coverage, and sponsorship.

We should be thankful for any high-profile player who competes in the Tiers 1s, 11s, 111, 1Vs, and Vs in all parts of the world. For whatever reason a player enters a tournament or plays a certain amount of tournaments, their presence at least ensures fan interest which ensures fan support which ensures the continuation of the WTA.

~ The Leopard ~
Oct 21st, 2003, 05:59 AM
This Kim/Juju rivalry is great for the fans, though, as long as it doesn't get too acrimonious. Keep it up, both girls.

persond
Oct 21st, 2003, 06:05 AM
EVERYTHING BANDABOU SAYS IS TRUE. ALWAYS.



You know, they say, "IMITATION" is the sincerest form of flattery...!!! My hat's off to this imposter...!!! He/she must truely enjoy as well as envy my style of posting...!!! :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:

*persond thinks to himself; "what a sad and lonely individual to try and steal persond's identity...!!!* Hope they get the professional help they so desperately need...!!!*

tfannis
Oct 21st, 2003, 07:35 AM
lol....bandabou won't stop unless GM is deserted and only Williamsfans remain :rolleyes:

Kim played the tournaments she wanted to play, she played her heart out, tried to win every match she played, becomes nr. 1 in the proces...and gets containers of crap all over her...oh well :rolleyes:

Congrats Kim on your year-end top 2 place :yeah: Truly deserved :worship:

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 11:03 AM
Bandabou,

What's the difference between you posting and bringing up any and everything to devalue Kim's accomplishments for the 2003 season and someone who is ant-Williams doing the same thing?
Would you probably say people treat Venus and Serena unfairly?

Kim made #1. You said didn't win any slams to recognize as a true #1. Are you really saying you would have been satisfied if you would have maintained the 5-1 lead in the third set of her semi-match with Serena at the Australian Open which would have meant no Serena Slam?

If all the fans and even the players were to have the mentality "that only the slams matters and it is only the slams' results which counts," what would become of the non-slams tournaments and events? They would cease to exist and the WTA could possibly face the same fate as the Women's United Soccer Association(WUSA). It folded after three years of existence due to a lack of attendance, media coverage, and sponsorship.

We should be thankful for any high-profile player who competes in the Tiers 1s, 11s, 111, 1Vs, and Vs in all parts of the world. For whatever reason a player enters a tournament or plays a certain amount of tournaments, their presence at least ensures fan interest which ensures fan support which ensures the continuation of the WTA.

Then it would have been deserved no! she beat the former no.1 at a slam and won a slam. This isnīt between Serena and Kim...this about Kim and Justine.....in the past people could have said:yeah, but you have to play enough....but this year Justine has played nearly as much as Kim, win bigger titles, beat Kim at will along the way, beat Serena..... all things Kim didnīt do, but still sheīs being threatened for no.1 by Kim.

That doesnīt make any sense.

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 11:04 AM
lol....bandabou won't stop unless GM is deserted and only Williamsfans remain :rolleyes:

Kim played the tournaments she wanted to play, she played her heart out, tried to win every match she played, becomes nr. 1 in the proces...and gets containers of crap all over her...oh well :rolleyes:

Congrats Kim on your year-end top 2 place :yeah: Truly deserved :worship:

blah blah blah.....

tfannis
Oct 21st, 2003, 11:06 AM
blah blah blah.....
you owning many of those containers :rolleyes:

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 11:12 AM
you owning many of those containers :rolleyes:

owning many of those containers?! Whatīs that supposed to mean?!

SJW
Oct 21st, 2003, 11:14 AM
GO KIM! :hearts:

kim4eva
Oct 21st, 2003, 11:17 AM
GO KIM! :hearts:

Nice to hear positive stuff about Kim in GM... :angel:
GO KIM!! :hearts:

tfannis
Oct 21st, 2003, 11:28 AM
owning many of those containers?! Whatīs that supposed to mean?!
read before you post blah blah blah lol

great smash
Oct 21st, 2003, 11:31 AM
read before you post blah blah blah lol

His anwers do not depend on the content of other's messages, therefore no reading required...

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 11:35 AM
read before you post blah blah blah lol

Sure....great for Kim to finish in the top 2. That was it?!

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 11:36 AM
His anwers do not depend on the content of other's messages, therefore no reading required...

Now THIS is blah blah.....

great smash
Oct 21st, 2003, 11:39 AM
Now THIS is blah blah.....

See, you did it again ;) :lol:

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 11:44 AM
See, you did it again ;) :lol:

Sure, sure....

maryjane
Oct 21st, 2003, 12:56 PM
But blame the ranking system. Not the beneficiary.



that's what I think about.

CapFan#1
Oct 21st, 2003, 01:38 PM
Weirthless should shut up! Kim played the system fair and square. If she ends the year at no.1 then she deserves it. Henin H has every opportunity to stop her.

BTW, this Kim doesn't deserve the #1 debate is getting tired. yes, Justine won 2 slams....and...................Kim still can take #1. The system has been like this for a long time, some people need to let it go and get over it. :rolleyes:


THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!! :worship: :bounce: I couldn't agree more...this debate is getting old! :wavey:

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 01:40 PM
How can Justine stop Kim playing all the tier IIIīs and rack up free points?!

banned abou
Oct 21st, 2003, 01:51 PM
Mr. Jon is correcting: Ms. Kim has gained 10 this past year of row III, being equal the victories of Mss. Justine/Serena' s 2 GS in the running system points. :fiery:

pigam
Oct 21st, 2003, 01:51 PM
Funny how some people say Wertheimis full of shit when he writes something 'negative' about their fav, but go and quote him and act like he's thč authority when one of his comments suits them better... :rolleyes:

WHATEVER! Who cares ?? Serena began the year @ nr1, Kim took over, and now Justine reaches the top spot... nice for tennis, if you ask me. But stop bulling about those rank-systems! Tennisplayers have all year long to prove who's best!! Other athletes (think sprinters, swimmers,...) have only few occasions on which they have to peek! The possibility of 'luck' and 'badluck' is a lot higher there. So whoever reaches the nr 1 in tennis has to do something (really) well to deserve it ! Live with it :)

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 02:05 PM
Funny how some people say Wertheimis full of shit when he writes something 'negative' about their fav, but go and quote him and act like he's thč authority when one of his comments suits them better... :rolleyes:

WHATEVER! Who cares ?? Serena began the year @ nr1, Kim took over, and now Justine reaches the top spot... nice for tennis, if you ask me. But stop bulling about those rank-systems! Tennisplayers have all year long to prove who's best!! Other athletes (think sprinters, swimmers,...) have only few occasions on which they have to peek! The possibility of 'luck' and 'badluck' is a lot higher there. So whoever reaches the nr 1 in tennis has to do something (really) well to deserve it ! Live with it :)

And now tell us: How do u REALLY feel about this?! :lol:

Darran
Oct 21st, 2003, 02:05 PM
How can Justine stop Kim playing all the tier IIIīs and rack up free points?!

Kim's Luxembourg total isn't even in her top 17 tournaments, she plays there coz she enjoys it, I'm sure ranking points are not at all on her mind.
It certainly isn't stopping Justine being number 1. :rolleyes:

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 02:09 PM
Kim's Luxembourg total isn't even in her top 17 tournaments, she plays there coz she enjoys it, I'm sure ranking points are not at all on her mind.
It certainly isn't stopping Justine being number 1. :rolleyes:

Sure, sure....but does Kim even know the word: BREAK?!

pigam
Oct 21st, 2003, 02:11 PM
And now tell us: How do u REALLY feel about this?! :lol:
You're right ... who am I kidding?? :sad:

Actually, I find it REALLY sad two (2 !!) belgian players
reached the nr 1 position in an international sport like
tennis during the same season !! :scared: ...

OMG I just started crying again :bigcry:

Please :unsure: help me... :sad: :sad: :sad:

Darran
Oct 21st, 2003, 02:12 PM
Well thats her decision isn't it, if she were not playing this week is it likely she would be doing some practice? Yes i think so. So surely by playing a max of 4 matches and potentially easy ones at that, she is not going to tax herself.
By playing she is giving something back to the tour. Or would you prefer it that all top players play 7 or 8 tournaments and your left watching two no hopers sluggin it out week in week out?

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 02:14 PM
You're right ... who am I kidding?? :sad:

Actually, I find it REALLY sad two (2 !!) belgian players
reached the nr 1 position in an international sport like
tennis during the same season !! :scared: ...

OMG I just started crying again :bigcry:

Please :unsure: help me... :sad: :sad: :sad:

Oh..poor child!

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 02:16 PM
Well thats her decision isn't it, if she were not playing this week is it likely she would be doing some practice? Yes i think so. So surely by playing a max of 4 matches and potentially easy ones at that, she is not going to tax herself.
By playing she is giving something back to the tour. Or would you prefer it that all top players play 7 or 8 tournaments and your left watching two no hopers sluggin it out week in week out?

Hahaha.....so suddenly what happened this year because of injury is the norm?!

About Kim....sure it is her decision..if her playing a tier III is required for her lil sis to get some play time at tour level....hey go on, Iīd do the same thing for my sis too!

And as they say:"Not elke Clijster is a Clijster!"

moby
Oct 21st, 2003, 02:33 PM
sheesh... how would you like it if someone came over to tell you you suck

give elke a break already. it isnt her fault she's getting the wild cards

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 02:58 PM
sheesh... how would you like it if someone came over to tell you you suck

give elke a break already. it isnt her fault she's getting the wild cards


Did I say Elke sucks?!

MarcusRock
Oct 21st, 2003, 03:05 PM
owning many of those containers?! Whatīs that supposed to mean?!I think I read somewhere that ancient Barbarian tribes used that container comment as an insult to one's mother. I believe a modern-day translation would be something like, "Your mother's so ugly, that they placed her in a container and let zoo animals stare at her." That's pretty messed up of tfannis to say about you.

Dang bandabou, you gonna take that?

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 03:08 PM
I think I read somewhere that ancient Barbarian tribes used that container comment as an insult to one's mother. I believe a modern-day translation would be something like, "Your mother's so ugly, that they placed her in a container and let zoo animals stare at her." That's pretty messed up of tfannis to say about you.

Dang bandabou, you gonna take that?

Hell no! :fiery: :lol: