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tennisIlove09
Oct 20th, 2003, 11:39 PM
Henin-Hardenne: It's hard to compare

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press


ZURICH, Switzerland -- Justin Henin-Hardenne knows she still has to work on her game even though she's No. 1, and she can't worry about the Williams sisters.

Henin-Hardenne and Kim Clijsters have given women's tennis a distinctly Belgian flavor with Serena and Venus Williams sidelined.

"It's hard to say where we would be if they were still playing,'' Henin-Hardenne said. "I hope they come back really soon.''

"It's hard to compare, and that's my last problem right now,'' she added. "All I can say is that they are great champions and have won so many titles. And I still have to improve my game.''

Since Serena beat Venus in the Wimbledon final in their last appearances on tour, Henin-Hardenne and Clijsters have won seven titles and faced each other in the final of three, including the U.S. Open.

On Monday, Henin-Hardenne replaced Clijsters at the top of women's tennis to become the 13th No. 1 in the 28-year history of the WTA Tour rankings.

Her rise came a day after she won the Swisscom Challenge. She has a tour-leading eight titles this year, including the French Open and U.S. Open.

Clijsters, who lost in the Swisscom semifinals, had been No. 1 for 10 weeks. She will regain the No. 1 next Monday because Henin-Hardenne was too fatigued to defend her title at this week's Generali Open in Austria.

Serena Williams had knee surgery Aug. 1 and is out for the rest of the year. Venus, hindered by an abdominal strain since April, plans to return in Philadelphia next week.

Before withdrawing from the U.S. Open, Serena Williams had won five of the previous six Grand Slam titles, beating Venus each time.

Henin-Hardenne ended Serena's 21-match unbeaten streak at Amelia Island in April, then beat her again en route to the French Open title.

Clijsters ended Serena's 57-week reign as No. 1 in August, becoming the first player to take the top ranking without having won a Grand Slam title.

Combined, the Belgians have won 15 tournaments and reached 23 finals this year.

"I think Kim and Justine adjusted their level this year and have shown they can beat the Williams sisters,'' Jelena Dokic said after losing to Henin-Hardenne in the Swisscom Challenge final. "They also play a lot of tournaments.''

Dokic says it's important for the Williams sisters to come back so players have a true sense of where they stand.

"We don't know what kind of form they are in or how they will play when they come back,'' she said. "But I think if the Williams sisters do get back to one and two it will take a while.''

Henin-Hardenne this season has won more singles titles and prize money ($3,277,264) than any other player, male or female.

"I think she really deserves to be No. 1,'' Dokic said. "She has played very consistent. Kim played consistent also. But Justine won two Grand Slams this year so maybe she deserves it more than Kim.''

SerenaSlam
Oct 21st, 2003, 12:04 AM
"I think Kim and Justine adjusted their level this year and have shown they can beat the Williams sisters,'' Jelena Dokic said after losing to Henin-Hardenne in the Swisscom Challenge final. "They also play a lot of tournaments.''

"they" haven't shown anything. justine has, but kim hasn't. and people question after the "beat down" she got from serena, whether or not she can actually hang with serena.

to me it seems, when serena isn't top form, justine still struggles to win 7-5 in the third against serena. im comparing their games, and with that said, to me justine nor kim come close to hangin with serena or venus on the court right now. they have improved, for if we all remember, they would loose to the sisters like 4-2 or 3-3, now they are loosing to them 7-5 6-4 or 7-6 7-6, or 6-2 in the third. again that is loosing. and every now and then they have wins like 7-5 in the third over them. so they have clearly improved, its just a matter of, can they hang when the sisters are actually "on" their games?

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 12:14 AM
Maybe Kim would be able to show something if "they" would play the game of the tennis sometimes.

Blah blah.....Kim had two shots at Venus and three shots at Serena and couldnīt pull it out.

What have they really shown?! What Justine did this year, she did last year too: beat Serena on clay.....but because Justine did it at a slam, itīs like a big deal. When Justine starts beating Serena on anything else or letīs just say: take sets off Serena....then maybe she has improved.

On clay....Justine can barely win....when Serena was missing balls all over the place and Justine still only wins 7-5 in the third on Serenaīs weakest surface and Justineīs best.

They go on grass and Justine getīs totally smoked....not coming even close of winning a set. Whatīs been proven really?!

moon
Oct 21st, 2003, 02:46 AM
Dokic says it's important for the Williams sisters to come back so players have a true sense of where they stand.

lol. Why do they need Vee and Ree to come back since Kim and Justine
are so "capable" of beating them.
:rolleyes:

Volcana
Oct 21st, 2003, 03:23 AM
You can tell the player at the top from the player who just wants to get there. Justine is learning the diplomacy game, just as Venus and Serena had to, and Martina Hingis had too. (Steffi seems to have been born reticent.)

Justine and Kim both know they a chance to win every time they step on court. Justine's chances against Venus are slim, but she did beat her the first time they played. I pretty much agree with Justine's comments. Jelena, well, it would be nice if she could play 20 tournaments a year AND be a Top Ten player.

tenn_ace
Oct 21st, 2003, 04:11 AM
Jelena is such a funny person: "they also play a lot of tournaments" :haha: :lol:

keep it up, Jelly

SerenaSlam
Oct 21st, 2003, 04:51 AM
Blah blah.....Kim had two shots at Venus and three shots at Serena and couldnīt pull it out.

What have they really shown?! What Justine did this year, she did last year too: beat Serena on clay.....but because Justine did it at a slam, itīs like a big deal. When Justine starts beating Serena on anything else or letīs just say: take sets off Serena....then maybe she has improved.

On clay....Justine can barely win....when Serena was missing balls all over the place and Justine still only wins 7-5 in the third on Serenaīs weakest surface and Justineīs best.

They go on grass and Justine getīs totally smoked....not coming even close of winning a set. Whatīs been proven really?!
that is true. with such an "advantage" they make it seem for justine to have over serena, then why, when serena is not "on" her game (people aruge this and say how do you know justine wasn't "on" her game? answer= b/c justine wasn't missing, when serena was missing) is it taking justine to win 7-5 or 7-6 in the third set against serena. last year justine beat serena on clay 7-6 in the third. serena followed it up with a straight sets win on clay the following week i believe. this year justine beat serena 7-5 in the third, serena followed that one with a straight sets win over justine but this time on grass. thing is for justine, i think she knows what she is up against, same thing goes for kim. clay is the neutralizer for justine, when it comes to kim, she can run all day, and when venus and serena are on, you can run all day, but the points eventually end. back to justine, clay is about 1 month out of the almost 12 months played. she is gonna have to figure out how to beat serena on hardcourts, and grass. she is continuing to get her hass beat on hardcourts and grass, and personally if venus is dismissing her in straight sets on everything but clay, serena is gonna do the same. and she has shown that. venus to me, dismisses justine and kim better than serena does. its funnie, cuz venus seems to struglee with amelie and lindsay and martina etc, while serena didn't, she had problems with kim, justine, and jennifer. its so funnie, but ture.

Darran
Oct 21st, 2003, 07:09 AM
:rolleyes:

janjan
Oct 21st, 2003, 07:14 AM
Henin-Hardenne: It's hard to compare

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press


ZURICH, Switzerland -- Justin Henin-Hardenne knows she still has to work on her game even though she's No. 1, and she can't worry about the Williams sisters.

Henin-Hardenne and Kim Clijsters have given women's tennis a distinctly Belgian flavor with Serena and Venus Williams sidelined.

"It's hard to say where we would be if they were still playing,'' Henin-Hardenne said. "I hope they come back really soon.''

"It's hard to compare, and that's my last problem right now,'' she added. "All I can say is that they are great champions and have won so many titles. And I still have to improve my game.''

Since Serena beat Venus in the Wimbledon final in their last appearances on tour, Henin-Hardenne and Clijsters have won seven titles and faced each other in the final of three, including the U.S. Open.

On Monday, Henin-Hardenne replaced Clijsters at the top of women's tennis to become the 13th No. 1 in the 28-year history of the WTA Tour rankings.

Her rise came a day after she won the Swisscom Challenge. She has a tour-leading eight titles this year, including the French Open and U.S. Open.

Clijsters, who lost in the Swisscom semifinals, had been No. 1 for 10 weeks. She will regain the No. 1 next Monday because Henin-Hardenne was too fatigued to defend her title at this week's Generali Open in Austria.

Serena Williams had knee surgery Aug. 1 and is out for the rest of the year. Venus, hindered by an abdominal strain since April, plans to return in Philadelphia next week.

Before withdrawing from the U.S. Open, Serena Williams had won five of the previous six Grand Slam titles, beating Venus each time.

Henin-Hardenne ended Serena's 21-match unbeaten streak at Amelia Island in April, then beat her again en route to the French Open title.

Clijsters ended Serena's 57-week reign as No. 1 in August, becoming the first player to take the top ranking without having won a Grand Slam title.

Combined, the Belgians have won 15 tournaments and reached 23 finals this year.

"I think Kim and Justine adjusted their level this year and have shown they can beat the Williams sisters,'' Jelena Dokic said after losing to Henin-Hardenne in the Swisscom Challenge final. "They also play a lot of tournaments.''

Dokic says it's important for the Williams sisters to come back so players have a true sense of where they stand.

"We don't know what kind of form they are in or how they will play when they come back,'' she said. "But I think if the Williams sisters do get back to one and two it will take a while.''

Henin-Hardenne this season has won more singles titles and prize money ($3,277,264) than any other player, male or female.

"I think she really deserves to be No. 1,'' Dokic said. "She has played very consistent. Kim played consistent also. But Justine won two Grand Slams this year so maybe she deserves it more than Kim.''

This is AP?
Which media from? Thanks.

per4ever
Oct 21st, 2003, 08:05 AM
that is true. with such an "advantage" they make it seem for justine to have over serena, then why, when serena is not "on" her game (people aruge this and say how do you know justine wasn't "on" her game? answer= b/c justine wasn't missing, when serena was missing) is it taking justine to win 7-5 or 7-6 in the third set against serena. last year justine beat serena on clay 7-6 in the third. serena followed it up with a straight sets win on clay the following week i believe. this year justine beat serena 7-5 in the third, serena followed that one with a straight sets win over justine but this time on grass. thing is for justine, i think she knows what she is up against, same thing goes for kim. clay is the neutralizer for justine, when it comes to kim, she can run all day, and when venus and serena are on, you can run all day, but the points eventually end. back to justine, clay is about 1 month out of the almost 12 months played. she is gonna have to figure out how to beat serena on hardcourts, and grass. she is continuing to get her hass beat on hardcourts and grass, and personally if venus is dismissing her in straight sets on everything but clay, serena is gonna do the same. and she has shown that. venus to me, dismisses justine and kim better than serena does. its funnie, cuz venus seems to struglee with amelie and lindsay and martina etc, while serena didn't, she had problems with kim, justine, and jennifer. its so funnie, but ture.

Someone is forgetting the ass-kicking in Charleston I believe. Don't forget that Justine didn't play well at all in the Wimbledon semi.
The problem here is that you think that when Serena is playing well she doesn't miss. True, but Serena was playing well in the semi's at RG. Justine just keeps bringing them back, FORCING Serena to take more risks and make errors. Imo that's still Serena's weakness: the impatience. Venus is patient on the court, and that's why Justine has so many problems against her.

nygirl
Oct 21st, 2003, 08:07 AM
that is true. with such an "advantage" they make it seem for justine to have over serena, then why, when serena is not "on" her game (people aruge this and say how do you know justine wasn't "on" her game? answer= b/c justine wasn't missing, when serena was missing) is it taking justine to win 7-5 or 7-6 in the third set against serena. last year justine beat serena on clay 7-6 in the third. serena followed it up with a straight sets win on clay the following week i believe. this year justine beat serena 7-5 in the third, serena followed that one with a straight sets win over justine but this time on grass. thing is for justine, i think she knows what she is up against, same thing goes for kim. clay is the neutralizer for justine, when it comes to kim, she can run all day, and when venus and serena are on, you can run all day, but the points eventually end. back to justine, clay is about 1 month out of the almost 12 months played. she is gonna have to figure out how to beat serena on hardcourts, and grass. she is continuing to get her hass beat on hardcourts and grass, and personally if venus is dismissing her in straight sets on everything but clay, serena is gonna do the same. and she has shown that. venus to me, dismisses justine and kim better than serena does. its funnie, cuz venus seems to struglee with amelie and lindsay and martina etc, while serena didn't, she had problems with kim, justine, and jennifer. its so funnie, but ture.

Serena fans such as yourself and Bandabou seem to be eager to forget that Justine has handed Serena one of her worst defeats this year. Juju won in straights in Charleston :o . You keep on harping about how she 'struggled' during RG and got a whooping at Wimbledon, by all means harp away but mention ALL their matches.

malaye
Oct 21st, 2003, 08:54 AM
Serena fans such as yourself and Bandabou seem to be eager to forget that Justine has handed Serena one of her worst defeats this year. Juju won in straights in Charleston :o . You keep on harping about how she 'struggled' during RG and got a whooping at Wimbledon, by all means harp away but mention ALL their matches.

Lol. I don't know how to say it in English. In French we call it "selective memory" ;)

AaronJoyB
Oct 21st, 2003, 09:05 AM
I love JuJU and Kim but Serena and Venus in top form are stroger and better then the belgian

Knizzle
Oct 21st, 2003, 09:12 AM
Serena fans such as yourself and Bandabou seem to be eager to forget that Justine has handed Serena one of her worst defeats this year. Juju won in straights in Charleston :o . You keep on harping about how she 'struggled' during RG and got a whooping at Wimbledon, by all means harp away but mention ALL their matches.

Lol. I don't know how to say it in English. In French we call it "selective memory" ;)

I can't tell you how many Juju fans and previously Kim fans, forgot 7-25, 1-9 in Grand Slam matches. Talk about "selective memory"

malaye
Oct 21st, 2003, 09:28 AM
I can't tell you how many Juju fans and previously Kim fans, forgot 7-25, 1-9 in Grand Slam matches. Talk about "selective memory"
Thank you for the 'reminder' Knizzle, although that was not necessary.

I doubt that "Juju fans and previously Kim fans" have forgotten their favorites stats against the sisters. Our memory is not that selective after all ;)

That doesn't mean we can't hope they will reverse the trend in the future. What's the point of being a fan, if you have no hope left ?

Knizzle
Oct 21st, 2003, 09:33 AM
Thank you for the 'reminder' Knizzle, although that was not necessary.

I doubt that "Juju fans and previously Kim fans" have forgotten their favorites stats against the sisters. Our memory is not that selective after all ;)

That doesn't mean we can't hope they will reverse the trend in the future. What's the point of being a fan, if you have no hope left ?

It's not about not having hope in your fave, but if past matches are brought up, like you say all of them have to be taken into consideration. H2H history shows trends. And just for the record alot of Juju fans are still in denial about where Juju stands compared to the sisters. Kim fans were previously in denial, but are now in the coping stage.

nygirl
Oct 21st, 2003, 09:42 AM
I love JuJU and Kim but Serena and Venus in top form are stroger and better then the belgian

Nobody is denying that, I'm a Juju fan but as I see it, it's Justine that still has everything to proof (especially against Venus).
It just is a bit annoying when they keep repeating the same thing and suffer from selective memory loss when it suits them :p

CamilleVidann
Oct 21st, 2003, 09:43 AM
I have a funny feeling that the sisters will never get back to where they used to be..
When they return, they won't be as dominant for sure. Guess it's better for Serena to quit tennis and concentrate on her second career to avoid futhur humiliation.

nygirl
Oct 21st, 2003, 09:48 AM
It's not about not having hope in your fave, but if past matches are brought up, like you say all of them have to be taken into consideration. H2H history shows trends. And just for the record alot of Juju fans are still in denial about where Juju stands compared to the sisters. Kim fans were previously in denial, but are now in the coping stage.

Check my previous post. We, Juju fans, are much more realistic than you guys give us credit for ;)

Knizzle
Oct 21st, 2003, 09:52 AM
Check my previous post. We, Juju fans, are much more realistic than you guys give us credit for ;)

I know Juju fans know the truth, but they don't often like to let it show on the board. Most think six months is a lifetime of change.

malaye
Oct 21st, 2003, 09:54 AM
It's not about not having hope in your fave, but if past matches are brought up, like you say all of them have to be taken into consideration. H2H history shows trends. And just for the record alot of Juju fans are still in denial about where Juju stands compared to the sisters. Kim fans were previously in denial, but are now in the coping stage.

Yes, hum, that was exactly Nygirl's point !

And just for the record alot of Juju fans are still in denial about where Juju stands compared to the sisters. Kim fans were previously in denial, but are now in the coping stage.


Knizzle, this has nothing to do with being in denial. I mean, realistically, I don't think there is anybody who knows exactly where Justine stands compared to the sisters. Not when they haven't played since July. Not when Justine has kept improving since then. It seems reasonable to me to think that Justine must have shortened the gap a bit, and more importantly she has gained in confidence. Is that so outragious ? Should I expect a whole pack of fans to jump on me for saying that ?

servenrichie
Oct 21st, 2003, 10:21 AM
Jelena is always quick to give her comments on the Williams sisters

per4ever
Oct 21st, 2003, 10:24 AM
I know Juju fans know the truth, but they don't often like to let it show on the board. Most think six months is a lifetime of change.
Do you actually think that Justine at this moment is still the same player as at AO2003?

servenrichie
Oct 21st, 2003, 10:25 AM
I have a funny feeling that the sisters will never get back to where they used to be..
When they return, they won't be as dominant for sure. Guess it's better for Serena to quit tennis and concentrate on her second career to avoid futhur humiliation.

And isnt it time you drop dead and save yourself from further humiliation... oops forgot, you are already almost dead, at least your brain cells are.
PS, did you forget to take your medication again Camille?

drapero
Oct 21st, 2003, 10:28 AM
Again WS fans are trying to convince others but also themselves in greatness of their favs. It's very sad if you like Venus or Serena just becouse they play excellent tennis. You're so keen to prove that they will start winning as soon as they return on the court like this is the most important thing - winning. When my favorite player - Justine, was injured in 2000, I was just hoping to see her play again, not realy thinking at all if she's going to play bad or good. I think many WS fans are greedy and they love Venus and Serena just becouse they are successful.

servenrichie
Oct 21st, 2003, 10:35 AM
Again WS fans are trying to convince others but also themselves in greatness of their favs. It's very sad if you like Venus or Serena just becouse they play excellent tennis. You're so keen to prove that they will start winning as soon as they return on the court like this is the most important thing - winning. When my favorite player - Justine, was injured in 2000, I was just hoping to see her play again, not realy thinking at all if she's going to play bad or good. I think many WS fans are greedy and they love Venus and Serena just becouse they are successful.

Wrong! Venus ans Serena have the most loyal fans you can ever think of. We are not trying to convince anyone of their greatness. They are great. Time and time again, they come back from long lay-offs and go straight to winning. We believe that and we believe in them. We are also not going to stop supporting them, if they dont win immediately. Problem lies more with their detractors, who likes to downplay what they have done and what they are.

Greedy? Lol, I should think you should search for it with your favorite, who had to result to cheating because she was greedy :fiery:

CamilleVidann
Oct 21st, 2003, 10:55 AM
Wrong! Venus ans Serena have the most loyal fans you can ever think of. We are not trying to convince anyone of their greatness. They are great. Time and time again, they come back from long lay-offs and go straight to winning. We believe that and we believe in them. We are also not going to stop supporting them, if they dont win immediately. Problem lies more with their detractors, who likes to downplay what they have done and what they are.

Greedy? Lol, I should think you should search for it with your favorite, who had to result to cheating because she was greedy :fiery:

What kinda midication are you on right now? It's clearly not working for you. In fact it's actually worsing your retardation level. So, you're the most loyal fans ehy? That's the funniest quote of the day. You yet accuse all the other fans for acting exactly the day you tards do.
I wonder when you will learn if it ever happens. When I said I was the best WS fan, I received a lot support from non-Williams fans which made me realize I was actually wishing to belong to an other fan base.

drapero
Oct 21st, 2003, 11:06 AM
Wrong! Venus ans Serena have the most loyal fans you can ever think of. We are not trying to convince anyone of their greatness. They are great. Time and time again, they come back from long lay-offs and go straight to winning. We believe that and we believe in them. We are also not going to stop supporting them, if they dont win immediately. Problem lies more with their detractors, who likes to downplay what they have done and what they are.

Greedy? Lol, I should think you should search for it with your favorite, who had to result to cheating because she was greedy :fiery:


I said 'many', not all. And those many are trying months and months to
prove something that doesn't even need the proof: Serena and Venus at their best form are the best players in the world. But when they are not playing, there are other players who can make tennis interesting even without sisters and they also can be successful and speculations what would happened if WS were around are senseless. Also, why trying
to predict the future ? We just need to wait a little and we will see.

Last paragraph I won't comment becouse we will exchange bad reputation points again...

Shuji Shuriken
Oct 21st, 2003, 11:24 AM
Fuck 'em down Venus :hearts: :worship:....I can't wait to see you back on court tearing apart your opponents my Queen :worship:...you are the best ever....fuck anyone who thinks otherwise and who say I'm delusional. Win or lose, you're still my heart :hearts:...so fuck 'em down Queen Vee :devil:

servenrichie
Oct 21st, 2003, 11:32 AM
I said 'many', not all. And those many are trying months and months to
prove something that doesn't even need the proof: Serena and Venus at their best form are the best players in the world. But when they are not playing, there are other players who can make tennis interesting even without sisters and they also can be successful and speculations what would happened if WS were around are senseless. Also, why trying
to predict the future ? We just need to wait a little and we will see.

Last paragraph I won't comment becouse we will exchange bad reputation points again...

Tennis, well is interesting also when they are not playing, but it is filled with anticipation and excitement when they are playing, which a lot of their detractors dont want to admit, hence the argument. They are the best players, so figure out what would have happened had they been around. As you said, we just have to wait and see.

servenrichie
Oct 21st, 2003, 11:34 AM
What kinda midication are you on right now? It's clearly not working for you. In fact it's actually worsing your retardation level. So, you're the most loyal fans ehy? That's the funniest quote of the day. You yet accuse all the other fans for acting exactly the day you tards do.
I wonder when you will learn if it ever happens. When I said I was the best WS fan, I received a lot support from non-Williams fans which made me realize I was actually wishing to belong to an other fan base.

..and you, I have just one word for you: go and play with your lego stones and leave adults to their discussion. Dont forget to close the door Camile!

Paneru
Oct 21st, 2003, 12:20 PM
I have a funny feeling...
Guess it's better for Serena to quit tennis and concentrate on her second career to avoid futhur humiliation.

Funny feeling, huh?
Maybe you should go
get that thing checked out, eh? :cool:

Don't let 'em get you down sweetie,
keep holding on to your fantasies! :kiss:

BTW, what humiliation has Serena suffered?
Even if she were to never win another tournament
atleast she is doing great things with her life! :)

How 'bout you dear? :wavey:

Volcana
Oct 21st, 2003, 12:28 PM
Do you actually think that Justine at this moment is still the same player as at AO2003?

Actually, yes, basically. The improvements Justine made in her strength and conditioning were done during the off-season. She certainly has capitaized on them, but realistically, she's prety much the same player as at OZ '03. However, she a LOT better that the US '02 Justine.

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 12:33 PM
People talk about how Justine has improved and this and that. How do you know she has improven?! By beating a bunch of Russians she was always beating anyways?!

You canīt measure her true improvement until she faces the top players out there: Serena and Venus...the players whom she has never beating on the faster surfaces...until she beats them on faster surfaces, then there canīt really be any talk of improvement...

Thatīs gonna be a whole different thing....on clay you can keep running, on hardcourts and grass you can only run down so much.

Kart
Oct 21st, 2003, 12:50 PM
"It's hard to say where we would be if they were still playing,'' Henin-Hardenne said. "I hope they come back really soon.''

"It's hard to compare, and that's my last problem right now,'' she added. "All I can say is that they are great champions and have won so many titles. And I still have to improve my game.''

"I think Kim and Justine adjusted their level this year and have shown they can beat the Williams sisters,'' Jelena Dokic said after losing to Henin-Hardenne in the Swisscom Challenge final. "They also play a lot of tournaments.''

"We don't know what kind of form they are in or how they will play when they come back,'' she said. "But I think if the Williams sisters do get back to one and two it will take a while.''

"I think she really deserves to be No. 1,'' Dokic said. "She has played very consistent. Kim played consistent also. But Justine won two Grand Slams this year so maybe she deserves it more than Kim.''

I don't see anything wrong with what they've said. Justine has been respectful and Jelena has just given her opinion, which frankly is not that unbelievable.

:yeah: Justine and Jelena :yeah:.

nygirl
Oct 21st, 2003, 01:06 PM
People talk about how Justine has improved and this and that. How do you know she has improven?! By beating a bunch of Russians she was always beating anyways?!

You canīt measure her true improvement until she faces the top players out there: Serena and Venus...the players whom she has never beating on the faster surfaces...until she beats them on faster surfaces, then there canīt really be any talk of improvement...

Thatīs gonna be a whole different thing....on clay you can keep running, on hardcourts and grass you can only run down so much.

Will y'all stop acting as if clay is an inferior surface?? You act as if Justine's victories on clay (against for example Serena) mean nothing because 'it's only clay'... Clay is a surface like any other and a hard one to play on for the big servers (Pete ring a bell?).

And as to the point of her improvement, I think the improvement was a lot more mental than physical (note that I'm not saying she hasn't improved physically because she has), when I watch Juju play now I see how freely she plays, while a few years ago she was choking a lot in the big matches.

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 01:17 PM
Will y'all stop acting as if clay is an inferior surface?? You act as if Justine's victories on clay (against for example Serena) mean nothing because 'it's only clay'... Clay is a surface like any other and a hard one to play on for the big servers (Pete ring a bell?).

And as to the point of her improvement, I think the improvement was a lot more mental than physical (note that I'm not saying she hasn't improved physically because she has), when I watch Juju play now I see how freely she plays, while a few years ago she was choking a lot in the big matches.

Clay IS a surface....Justine maybe rules there and the Williamses rule on grass and hardcourts. The sisters HAVE beaten Justine on clay, but Justine is BARELY taking sets off them on the other surfaces.

jenny161185
Oct 21st, 2003, 01:17 PM
some people here are so funny - I doubt Justine really cares she's got the winning record against Serena this year

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 01:19 PM
some people here are so funny - I doubt Justine really cares she's got the winning record against Serena this year

She sure does....didnīt she say Iīm happy that the Williams family isnīt happy after RG?!

CamilleVidann
Oct 21st, 2003, 01:32 PM
when was the last time there was such hostility between two fan bases?

nygirl
Oct 21st, 2003, 01:38 PM
She sure does....didnīt she say Iīm happy that the Williams family isnīt happy after RG?!

I don't think she said that but if she did :worship: I love her in bitch mode :p Tennis is way too nice since Martina H. left. That's why I don't agree with Volcanas earlier statement:
'You can tell the player at the top from the player who just wants to get there. Justine is learning the diplomacy game, just as Venus and Serena had to, and Martina Hingis had too. (Steffi seems to have been born reticent.)'

I loved Venus when she was blunt as hell. I used to ROFL when I heard her make certain comments. And well imo Martina H. never learnt that diplomacy game... maybe she smirked a bit less in the end...although...nope, she just had nothing to smirk about anymore :sad:
Ahh how I miss the Swiss Miss and Bitchy Venus :boxing: . Those were the days ;)

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 01:58 PM
I don't think she said that but if she did :worship: I love her in bitch mode :p Tennis is way too nice since Martina H. left. That's why I don't agree with Volcanas earlier statement:
'You can tell the player at the top from the player who just wants to get there. Justine is learning the diplomacy game, just as Venus and Serena had to, and Martina Hingis had too. (Steffi seems to have been born reticent.)'

I loved Venus when she was blunt as hell. I used to ROFL when I heard her make certain comments. And well imo Martina H. never learnt that diplomacy game... maybe she smirked a bit less in the end...although...nope, she just had nothing to smirk about anymore :sad:
Ahh how I miss the Swiss Miss and Bitchy Venus :boxing: . Those were the days ;)

Strange...because when Venus was doing the talking they called her arrogant....and with Justine it is confidence. Interesting.

nygirl
Oct 21st, 2003, 02:14 PM
Strange...because when Venus was doing the talking they called her arrogant....and with Justine it is confidence. Interesting.

:rolleyes: Go back a few pages and you will find many a thread bashing Juju just the way Venus was trashed way back when...Some people like humility in their fave others like bitchiness...just a matter of taste I guess. Besides Venus was not the only one called out on her arrogance, I think at times Martina took more flack than any other player.

caafje
Oct 21st, 2003, 02:31 PM
Let's not forget that Justine still has a big improvement margin, and Venus and Serena (and Kim) don't have any.
Hopefully in the future Justine and Serena will be at about the exact same level; That would make the Grand Slams interesting again.

mexicotrip
Oct 21st, 2003, 02:33 PM
All I know is that Justine won the French Open beating the no.1 and 2 players in the world.

She also holds a 2-1 record against Serena this year.

Its funny how people don't consider clay an 'important surface' when really most of Europe/South America plays on clay, and there are so many clay court specialists.

Once again...its the American way of thinking coming right through :rolleyes:

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 02:37 PM
Let's not forget that Justine still has a big improvement margin, and Venus and Serena (and Kim) don't have any.
Hopefully in the future Justine and Serena will be at about the exact same level; That would make the Grand Slams interesting again.

Serena and Venus canīt improve?! Haa.....you better hope so for Justine, īcause as it stand they are still better than the improved Justine.

Both Serena and Venus can improve their patience so they can be even better on clay....

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 02:39 PM
All I know is that Justine won the French Open beating the no.1 and 2 players in the world.

She also holds a 2-1 record against Serena this year.

Its funny how people don't consider clay an 'important surface' when really most of Europe/South America plays on clay, and there are so many clay court specialists.

Once again...its the American way of thinking coming right through :rolleyes:

clay is a surface but it ainīt the only surface.....people canīt say Justine is at the same level as Serena, when Serena can beat her on three of the four surfaces without breaking a sweat and gave Juju a hell of a time on the ONLY surface she loses against Juju.

mexicotrip
Oct 21st, 2003, 02:52 PM
clay is a surface but it ainīt the only surface.....people canīt say Justine is at the same level as Serena, when Serena can beat her on three of the four surfaces without breaking a sweat and gave Juju a hell of a time on the ONLY surface she loses against Juju.

If only slams matter, than how can Venus be the number 2 in the world behind someone with more titles, more wins over Serena/Kim and 2 Grand Slams (one of which Venus has never won)...

In the last 2 years I am sorry to say, Venus has been a major underachiever, by her high standards, she would be the first to admit it
:( :(

Venus Williams is GREAT for tennis.

mexicotrip
Oct 21st, 2003, 02:55 PM
clay is a surface but it ainīt the only surface.....people canīt say Justine is at the same level as Serena, when Serena can beat her on three of the four surfaces without breaking a sweat and gave Juju a hell of a time on the ONLY surface she loses against Juju.

All I know that of all the times that Justine/Serena played this year, Justine came out ON top twice, while Serena came out on top, only once. Since Serena sat out the hardcourt season, my guess is that Justine would of beat her (in her current state)

Serena Williams IS GREAT for TENNIS.

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 03:01 PM
All I know that of all the times that Justine/Serena played this year, Justine came out ON top twice, while Serena came out on top, only once. Since Serena sat out the hardcourt season, my guess is that Justine would of beat her (in her current state)

Serena Williams IS GREAT for TENNIS.

At least you got something right. Serena is GREAT for tennis.

But you really think that Justine would have beaten Serena on hardcourts?! Hahahahahaa........thatīs a good one!

Ballbuster
Oct 21st, 2003, 04:31 PM
All I know that of all the times that Justine/Serena played this year, Justine came out ON top twice, while Serena came out on top, only once. Since Serena sat out the hardcourt season, my guess is that Justine would of beat her (in her current state)

Serena Williams IS GREAT for TENNIS.


If I could continue giving you bad rep points I would. You deserve them.

DA FOREHAND
Oct 21st, 2003, 05:00 PM
I see nothing wrong w/what either of them said anything out of line, I do like how both of them basically said Venus and Serena are the standard by which all others are measured.

Martian Willow
Oct 21st, 2003, 05:03 PM
But you really think that Justine would have beaten Serena on hardcourts?! Hahahahahaa........thatīs a good one!

...he said 'in her current state' dumbass...the state the rankings measure, not some fairy tale land of no injuries... :)

Martian Willow
Oct 21st, 2003, 05:05 PM
If I could continue giving you bad rep points I would. You deserve them.

...good answer...! :)

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 05:15 PM
...he said 'in her current state' dumbass...the state the rankings measure, not some fairy tale land of no injuries... :)

What current state?! You mean that Justine could beat an injured Serena?! If she canīt beat Serena EVEN then....

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 05:16 PM
I see nothing wrong w/what either of them said anything out of line, I do like how both of them basically said Venus and Serena are the standard by which all others are measured.

Of course they are! So much for the Belgian domination! Everybody walks around saying that they arenīt the true measure of form! DANG!

lizchris
Oct 21st, 2003, 06:29 PM
It is wishful thinking that Justine would have beaten Serena on hardcourts this year considering she has yet to have a victory against Serena on any other surface other than clay. It is also wishful thinking to say that Justine would have beaten Venus if they have played later this year. The fact is, Justine and Venus met at the AO when she displayed her "new" body and Venus still beat her in straight sets. She said that it was harder to play Venus because Venus was a more paitent player and displays a poker face when on the court.

Right now, Justine is number one, but willb e so for noly one week. It remains to be seen if she will be number one at the year, thoguth her chances are looking good that she will.

As far as Jelena is concerned, no one should take her comments about Venus or Serena to heart. She is still smarting from that ass whipping Venus gave he at the Acura Classic last year.

bandabou
Oct 21st, 2003, 06:55 PM
It is wishful thinking that Justine would have beaten Serena on hardcourts this year considering she has yet to have a victory against Serena on any other surface other than clay. It is also wishful thinking to say that Justine would have beaten Venus if they have played later this year. The fact is, Justine and Venus met at the AO when she displayed her "new" body and Venus still beat her in straight sets. She said that it was harder to play Venus because Venus was a more paitent player and displays a poker face when on the court.

Right now, Justine is number one, but willb e so for noly one week. It remains to be seen if she will be number one at the year, thoguth her chances are looking good that she will.

As far as Jelena is concerned, no one should take her comments about Venus or Serena to heart. She is still smarting from that ass whipping Venus gave he at the Acura Classic last year.

Well said!

Knizzle
Oct 21st, 2003, 06:59 PM
Do you actually think that Justine at this moment is still the same player as at AO2003?

Huh?? The AO wasn't six months ago. Let me check September, August, July, June, May, April. That's six months.

Darran
Oct 21st, 2003, 07:08 PM
WTF is dang?

Knizzle
Oct 21st, 2003, 07:10 PM
WTF is dang?

LOL!! Dang is slang, it's basically a non profane form of Damn!!