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korben
Oct 17th, 2003, 10:12 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/sa/news?slug=ap-athletes-steroids&prov=ap&type=lgns

U.S. Anti-Doping Agency says it found steroid 'conspiracy'

By ROB GLOSTER, AP Sports Writer
October 17, 2003

An anonymous tipster. A used syringe filled with a mysterious substance that arrives by overnight courier at a drug lab. Enough secrets to fill a good spy novel.

The latest scandal to hit track and field involves a designer steroid and could lead to the disqualification of several U.S. athletes from the 2004 Athens Olympics.

The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency said Thursday that several track athletes tested positive in late June for the steroid known as tetrahydrogestrinone, or THG, that until recently was undetectable.

Those athletes now face two-year suspensions.

USADA chief executive officer Terry Madden called it a widespread "conspiracy'' involving chemists, coaches and athletes that was brought to the agency's attention by an anonymous tip.

"I know of no other drug bust that is larger than this involving the number of athletes involved,'' said Madden, who refused to reveal the names or genders of the athletes, or to be more specific about how many had tested positive.

Madden said the inquiry began in early June and expanded to other U.S. professional sports, but wouldn't give specifics. He said he believes international athletes also have used the steroid, which is taken by putting a couple of drops from a syringe under the tongue.

"What we have uncovered appears to be intentional doping of the worst sort,'' Madden said in a statement before a conference call from USADA headquarters in Colorado Springs, Colo. "This is a far cry from athletes accidentally testing positive as a result of taking contaminated nutritional supplements.''

Olympic athletes face drug tests at major competitions, as well as random testing between events. Their samples are divided in two and stored for future reference.

The athletes whose "A'' samples revealed THG have been notified and will now have their "B'' samples tested. If those also are positive, a review process will begin. Appeals could last for months.

THG has a chemical structure similar to two banned anabolic steroids, Madden said, but was tweaked to avoid detection. Though THG is not specifically named as a banned substance in world track, it would be considered a related substance outlawed under the sport's doping rules.

"This is a serious warning for cheaters,'' said Dick Pound, chairman of the World Anti-Doping Agency. "It shows that supposedly undetectable substances can be detected as new tests are developed.''

Madden said the USADA received a call from a man in June claiming to be a track coach. The caller named athletes he claimed were using a steroid that wouldn't be detected by tests then being used by the USADA. The man later sent the agency a syringe containing the substance, Madden said.

After determining the syringe contained THG, the USADA retested 350 urine samples taken from athletes at the U.S. track and field championships in June at Stanford, as well as 100 samples from random out-of-competition tests on track athletes and 100 random samples from non-track athletes.

Madden said the USADA, acting with extreme secrecy while it conducted the tests, contacted federal authorities with the findings.

The anonymous tipster, Madden said, identified the source of the THG as Victor Conte, founder of BALCO laboratory of Burlingame, Calif. The lab supplies nutritional guidance and supplements to athletes ranging from Barry Bonds to Bill Romanowski to Marion Jones.

"Everything that the coach has identified to us up to this time is true. We are fairly certain this substance came from Victor Conte and BALCO labs,'' said Madden, refusing to be specific.

But Conte, in an e-mail Thursday to The Associated Press and other news organizations, said BALCO was not the source of the substance.

"In my opinion, this is about jealous competitive coaches and athletes that all have a history of promoting and using performance enhancing agents being 'completely hypocritical' in their actions,'' Conte said.

Agents from the Internal Revenue Service and a San Mateo County narcotics task force went to BALCO last month. No arrests were made, and IRS spokesman Mark Lessler wouldn't comment on the unannounced visit.

As part of the retesting of the samples from the U.S. track championships, Madden said, officials discovered several positive tests for the stimulant modafinil -- which sprinter Kelli White says she took for the sleep disorder narcolepsy.

White tested positive this summer at the world championships in France for modafinil, and it could cost her a pair of sprint gold medals. Her case is being reviewed by the USADA.

rand
Oct 17th, 2003, 10:41 AM
wanna bet that no name will be made public and no one will get a suspension?

rikvanlooy
Oct 17th, 2003, 10:44 AM
wanna bet that no name will be made public and no one will get a suspension?

I thought as much when I heard about it.

The Americans have a "special" relationship with doping.

korben
Oct 17th, 2003, 11:05 AM
wanna bet that no name will be made public and no one will get a suspension?

No :( But this looks very big.

The informer was inside and they say "Everything that the coach has identified to us up to this time is true."

Also "I know of no other drug bust that is larger than this" (le Tour got pretty heavy number couple years back, 50 or so ?)

550 tests (100 non track and field). What % of cases can we expect, if ever revealed ? 10 at least, 20 ? 30 ? Even more ?

Usual strike rate is around 2%, this must be much bigger as athletes had no idea that design drug can be seen in tests.

Low estimate (10%) - 55 caught, 10 other than track and field
High estimate (20%) - 110 caught, 20 other than track and field

If they want to get rid of problem they do it now. If not, then they never will get better chance.

rand
Oct 17th, 2003, 11:09 AM
No :( But this looks very big.

The informer was inside and they say "Everything that the coach has identified to us up to this time is true."

Also "I know of no other drug bust that is larger than this" (le Tour got pretty heavy number couple years back, 50 or so ?)

550 tests (100 non track and field). What % of cases can we expect, if ever revealed ? 10 at least, 20 ? 30 ? Even more ?

Usual strike rate is around 2%, this must be much bigger as athletes had no idea that design drug can be seen in tests.

Low estimate (10%) - 55 caught, 10 other than track and field
High estimate (20%) - 110 caught, 20 other than track and field

If they want to get rid of problem they do it now. If not, then they never will get better chance.
we thought that during that tour too(it was in 1998) "now's the chance" but nothing happened...but it was not near 50 people you know ;)

gentenaire
Oct 17th, 2003, 11:51 AM
wanna bet that no name will be made public and no one will get a suspension?

too true :sad:

korben
Oct 17th, 2003, 12:02 PM
This from http://espn.go.com/oly/news/2003/1016/1639608.html

(shortened version as most were on that cover story)

As many as 40 track athletes face subpoenas

By Shaun Assael
ESPN the Magazine

Three track and field athletes who flunked drug tests have been subpoenaed to testify before a federal grand jury that is investigating whether a prominent San Francisco nutritionist has links to what one anti-doping official calls "an international doping conspiracy," ESPN has learned.

The three athletes were tested at the U.S. Track & Field Nationals in Palo Alto, Calif., in June. The results were reported in the last several weeks. One of the athletes was a client of Balco Labs, the supplement and nutrition company run by Victor Conte. The controversial nutritionist boasts of a roster of professional and Olympic sports stars as customers.

As many as 40 other athletes also may have received subpoenas, according to a source close to the case, who added: "The names I've heard are some of the biggest names in sports." On Thursday, anti-doping official Terry Madden, director of the U.S Anti-Doping Agency, identified Conte as the alleged supplier of the previously undetected steroid THG, which was detected in the three athletes. Conte issued a denial.


If those words in bold have backing, other sports will "suffer" as well

rikvanlooy
Oct 17th, 2003, 12:13 PM
This from http://espn.go.com/oly/news/2003/1016/1639608.html

(shortened version as most were on that cover story)

As many as 40 track athletes face subpoenas

By Shaun Assael
ESPN the Magazine

Three track and field athletes who flunked drug tests have been subpoenaed to testify before a federal grand jury that is investigating whether a prominent San Francisco nutritionist has links to what one anti-doping official calls "an international doping conspiracy," ESPN has learned.

The three athletes were tested at the U.S. Track & Field Nationals in Palo Alto, Calif., in June. The results were reported in the last several weeks. One of the athletes was a client of Balco Labs, the supplement and nutrition company run by Victor Conte. The controversial nutritionist boasts of a roster of professional and Olympic sports stars as customers.

As many as 40 other athletes also may have received subpoenas, according to a source close to the case, who added: "The names I've heard are some of the biggest names in sports." On Thursday, anti-doping official Terry Madden, director of the U.S Anti-Doping Agency, identified Conte as the alleged supplier of the previously undetected steroid THG, which was detected in the three athletes. Conte issued a denial.


If those words in bold have backing, other sports will "suffer" as well

I don't think anything will come from it. It's always the same in the USA.

gentenaire
Oct 17th, 2003, 12:19 PM
Not just the USA, unfortunately.

*JR*
Oct 17th, 2003, 12:36 PM
Actually, the development of the drug was financed by the noted substance abuse expert Rush Limbaugh, so @ age 52 he could finally make the NFL, sack Donovan McNabb, and tell the press "I told everybody he was overrated"! :devil:

korben
Oct 17th, 2003, 12:40 PM
Actually, the development of the drug was financed by the noted substance abuse expert Rush Limbaugh, so @ age 52 he could finally make the NFL, sack Donovan McNabb, and tell the press "I told everybody he was overrated"! :devil:

Who are they :confused:

*JR*
Oct 17th, 2003, 01:12 PM
Who are they :confused:
http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=89027 ;)

korben
Oct 19th, 2003, 01:19 AM
So 40 "elite" athletes who have been subpoenaed to testify as witnesses before a federal grand jury.

Only know handfull of names so far. Kelli White (says that she passed the test) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43701-2003Oct17.html , Kevin Toth and Barry Bonds

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/10/18/MNGLC2EG4O1.DTL

X-Lurker
Oct 19th, 2003, 02:14 AM
They raided the home of Marion Jones which I assume would be a shared residence with Tim Montgomery, so it's probably safe to add them to the list.

This is completely different from other doping scandals because the U.S. Justice Department is involved, treating this as an illegal drugs case; it's kind of out of the hands of the notoriously corrupt USTAF.

Rocketta
Oct 19th, 2003, 03:12 AM
I thought as much when I heard about it.

The Americans have a "special" relationship with doping.


Is that the same kind of relationship as the Germans or the Chinese??

Keep fooling yourself if you think "doping" is only a problem of the US.

Or wait are you one of those people who think US=bad, currupt; everyone else = pure and prestine?

TheBoiledEgg
Oct 19th, 2003, 01:02 PM
Is that the same kind of relationship as the Germans or the Chinese??

Keep fooling yourself if you think "doping" is only a problem of the US.

Or wait are you one of those people who think US=bad, currupt; everyone else = pure and prestine?

He doesnt mean that
when other countries athletes are caught for drugs they are banned instantly, where as the US Athletes are not made public (aka Jerome Young) whose name was just released in Aug for having failed a drug test in 1999 which would have got him banned for the Sydney olympics which he won.
Plus there are numerous other circumstances of the same happening.

TheBoiledEgg
Oct 19th, 2003, 01:03 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2003/10/19/soathl19.xml&sSheet=/sport/2003/10/19/ixothspt.html

Athletics: Doping scandal could cost White more gold
By Simon Hart
(Filed: 19/10/2003)



Kelli White, the American sprint star who faces being stripped of the two gold medals she won at the World Championships in Paris after failing a drug test, could also lose the two golds she won at this summer's US Championships after testing positive for the same banned substance.

White has admitted that the urine sample she gave at the US Championships in Palo Alto, California, in June has revealed traces of modafinil - the same drug that was discovered in the sample taken two months later after her 100 metres triumph in Paris. The American claims the drug was prescribed for an hereditary sleeping disorder but admits she failed to notify the anti-doping authorities in advance because she had no idea it was a banned drug.

The reason that the earlier drug test failure has only recently come to light is because at the time of the US Championships the US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) did not test for modafinil. However, all 350 samples provided at the championships have recently been re-examined following an anonymous tip-off that a new, hitherto undetectable anabolic called tetrahydrogestrinone, or THG, was being widely abused. Tests for modafinil were also carried out as part of the investigation.

White faces a disciplinary hearing in the United States which is likely to result in the loss of the two gold medals she won in Paris in the 100m and 200m, and she expects the US Championships case to be dealt with at the same time. However, her claims that the drug, a mild stimulant, was used to treat a narcolepsy condition have been thrown into doubt by the revelation that several more modafinil 'positives' have been detected among other samples. Unless sleeping disorders are rife among American athletes, the likelihood seems to be that it is being used as a performance enhancer.

White, who insists she has not tested positive for THG, has also confirmed that she is one of 40 American sports stars who have been subpoenaed to give evidence to a Federal Grand Jury in San Francisco investigating the activities of the Bay Area Laboratory Cooperative (BALCO) in California, a company producing nutritional supplements that has been named as the source of THG, a so-called "designer" or artificially produced steroid that was previously unknown to drug-testers. USADA were alerted to the drug by a tip-off in May but have only recently discovered a reliable test to detect it.

Up to 20 stars are said to have tested positive for the steroid in what could be one of the biggest doping scandals in history, though anti-doping officials are refusing to reveal their identities until tests on second 'B' samples have been carried out.

The only athlete to have been named is American shot put champion Kevin Toth, one of dozens of sportsmen mentioned on BALCO's website. His agent, John Nubani, has confirmed THG was part of his supplement package but said his client had no idea it was a banned anabolic steroid.

USADA have confirmed that 100 out-of-competition samples were also being re-analysed as part of the THG investigation, though it is unclear whether any foreign athletes are involved.

The THG scandal, which anti-doping officials in America have described as an "international doping conspiracy", is threatening to bring down the country's governing body of athletics, USA Track and Field.

Yesterday, the US Olympic Committee gave athletics officials one month to regain control of their sport or face being wound up following a series of controversies including Jon Drummond's histrionics against a false start in Paris and the revelation that world 400m champion Jerome Young was cleared to compete at the Sydney Olympics despite testing positive for nandrolone in 1999.

rand
Oct 20th, 2003, 08:29 AM
Is that the same kind of relationship as the Germans or the Chinese??

Keep fooling yourself if you think "doping" is only a problem of the US.

Or wait are you one of those people who think US=bad, currupt; everyone else = pure and prestine?
other countries usually don't test athletes positive for some product, carefully hide it and send these athletes to olympic games where they start picking on other "non-clean" athletes...the name carl lewis comes to mind...

Rocketta
Oct 20th, 2003, 03:48 PM
other countries usually don't test athletes positive for some product, carefully hide it and send these athletes to olympic games where they start picking on other "non-clean" athletes...the name carl lewis comes to mind...

That's not true. Now maybe the US is the guilty party today but other countries have and will do the same thing.

rand
Oct 21st, 2003, 09:06 AM
That's not true. Now maybe the US is the guilty party today but other countries have and will do the same thing.
the Us had I think 4 doping scandals this year only :o name one country where they have that...and in othe countries when it happens they don't let the athlete going (see for example what happens when a cyclist gets convicted of doping...-they usually don't send them to the next important race without any shame....)

King Satan
Oct 21st, 2003, 09:15 AM
the Us had I think 4 doping scandals this year only :o name one country where they have that...and in othe countries when it happens they don't let the athlete going (see for example what happens when a cyclist gets convicted of doping...-they usually don't send them to the next important race without any shame....)
they just didn't get caught.

rand
Oct 21st, 2003, 09:22 AM
they just didn't get caught.
who?

King Satan
Oct 21st, 2003, 09:30 AM
who?
all those damn doping athletes.

rand
Oct 21st, 2003, 09:56 AM
all those damn doping athletes.
well for example in belgium Mohammed Mourhit (long distance runner) was caught , but he was sentenced to three years without competition....
I've never seen one cyclist walking freely of doping charge.....except lance armstrong who refused to go to france for the investigation, after which they were forced to stop the investigation in question....

Rocketta
Oct 21st, 2003, 10:36 PM
rand, how old are you? I ask because entire teams have shown up to the olympics steroid down and they weren't necessarily caught right then. Matter of fact the athletes broke world and olympic records. They shattered them and went home with their golds.

Sure all came out later which will happen to everybody.

I'm not crazy enough to think that athletes in the US do not dope nor do I believe the officials no nothing about it. However, I'm also not crazy enough to believe this is just an issue with the US.

Maybe they are more adept at shielding their athletes from punishment but that doesn't mean other countries aren't "trying" to get away with the same thing. Always have and Always will. That is the nature of sport. You will have "cheats".

korben
Oct 22nd, 2003, 06:25 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/3203005.stm

Chambers 'fails drugs test'

British sprinter Dwain Chambers has tested positive for the banned designer steroid tetrahydrogestrinone (THG), according to The Guardian newspaper. The Guardian reported on Wednesday that traces of the drug were found in a urine sample given by the athlete in an out-of-competition test.

A second, or B test on the same sample has yet to take place.

Chambers' coach has refused to comment on The Guardian's claims.

Any athlete found guilty of using banned substances such as THG faces a miminum two-year ban.

THG came to the attention of the athletics authorities when an anonymous coach turned in a used syringe containing the substance.

Until last week it was thought to be undetectable by normal dope tests.

But is believed that up to 20 American athletes tested positive for the drug at June's US championships.

gentenaire
Oct 22nd, 2003, 06:32 AM
ta-dam, the difference between the US and the UK. Chambers' name is released after one failed drugged test, the Americans are still keeping quiet about the American athletes who tested positive.

gentenaire
Oct 22nd, 2003, 06:55 AM
Hypocrisy at the heart of the affair

American authorities knew long ago their athletes were drug abusers but chose to ignore it

Kevin Mitchell
Sunday October 19, 2003
The Observer

How fitting that what looks like becoming the biggest drugs bust in the history of sport should be sourced to a gym in California, whose citizens have just elected as their Governor a well known former Austrian bodybuilder.

Not that Arnold Schwarzenegger would have contemplated taking the performing enhancers himself. Those shining lumps of beef are all-American, blessed by God and George W Bush. And a man once allegedly in love with Hitler, serial buttock fondling and himself can only have so many vices.

But it is not beyond the imagination that The Terminator might soon emerge from the Governor's residence in Sacramento, stripped to the waist and, mad as hell, declare war on these new cheats. It's as believable as any other strand of this remarkable story.

Schwarzenegger, after all, is attached as strongly to the world of fantasy as are the athletes, coaches and officials who have persistently denied the use of the latest wonder steroid, THG. In the three years since my colleague Duncan Mackay revealed in these pages that American athletics was involved in a major cover-up, all but a few decent men have looked the other way. Officials and coaches have defended the athletes, who, in turn, have carried on taking the tablets.

And now, after claims by a major whistleblower within the sport, we are led to the Bay Area Laboratory Cooperative (BALCO) in San Francisco, a city whose connections with drugs from the Summer of Love was always more Class B than Class A. And there we find a Mr Victor Conte, supplier of supplements. He claims he is being fingered by jealous rivals, but never before have the accusations been so compelling. His list of star clients is impressive and, on Thursday, we will be treated to the testimony of at least 40 leading players in the drama before a federal grand jury. This is serious stuff.

It is not that people will be shocked by the allegations, although the scale is unprecedented. The anger and hurt from inside and outside the sport since the story hit the news wires two days ago springs from the realisation that people in positions of responsibility have indulged in the most outrageous hypocrisy, pointing the finger at others while, at best, ignoring transgressions closer to home.

If only they had listened three years ago. In the September 2000 issue of the Observer Sports Monthly , Mackay outlined the claims and hard facts. From the then President, Bill Clinton, down, people knew there was a problem, yet did nothing about it. 'The use of drugs in sports,' Clinton said just before the Sydney Olympics, 'has reached a level that endangers not just the legitimacy of athletic competition, but also the lives and health of athletes.'

The villains of the piece at that time were the United States Olympic Committee, whose inability or unwillingness to crack down on the cheats had created an environment of laxness. Shortly after that article and others, the USOC set up a troubleshooting agency that last week itself came down hard on USA Track & Field, supposed guardians of the sport there. .

Dick Pound, a Canadian not universally admired below the border and a senior vice-president on the International Olympic Committee at the time, articulated what a lot of people outside the United States were thinking: 'Perhaps America ought to sort its own problems out before it starts lecturing the rest of the world.'

Yesterday, Pound, who now heads the World Anti-Doping Agency from Montreal, had the grace to take the heat out of the situation. But only a little. 'I don't want to make it sound like the United States is the only [nation] doping,' he said. 'It's not. But this capacity for double think and denial is becoming a joke.'

It was a joke three years ago, though, and long before that - as was recognised by a doctor who ran the drug-testing programme in the United States for 10 years before resigning in disgust. 'There are names,' said Wade Exum, 'there is proof.'

If there is - and all indications point to a shedload of the stuff being produced soon - athletics in America will never be the same. If the boom drops on the sport, if leading track and field stars are banned, sponsors will run a mile. Without money, without television, without credibility, athletics in the United States - which struggles for a profile alongside basketball, gridiron, ice hockey and baseball - will be seriously marginalised. If the cheats are found and punished before the Olympics in Athens next year, that event, too, will be tarnished. If the light is shone in other dark corners - Italy, for instance, and here - the damage might prove unstoppable, at least in the short term.

Up until now, the testers have been at least one step behind the secretive labs and the rich athletes who can afford their produce. Not anymore. If people within the sport have finally had enough, this will not be the last time somebody grasses.

IF THERE IS one person you might feel sympathy for in the sorry mess it is the sprinter whose disqualification in the 100 metres final at the Seoul Olympics 15 years ago was the first major engagement of the modern drugs war, Ben Johnson. He confessed and took his licks, but nobody wanted to listen to him when he accused others.

Now, those who didn't have the courage of Pound and Exum will emerge from the shadows to declare their righteousness. Right alongside The Terminator. 'Hasta la vista, baby!'

rand
Oct 22nd, 2003, 07:20 AM
rand, how old are you? I ask because entire teams have shown up to the olympics steroid down and they weren't necessarily caught right then. Matter of fact the athletes broke world and olympic records. They shattered them and went home with their golds.

Sure all came out later which will happen to everybody.

I'm not crazy enough to think that athletes in the US do not dope nor do I believe the officials no nothing about it. However, I'm also not crazy enough to believe this is just an issue with the US.

Maybe they are more adept at shielding their athletes from punishment but that doesn't mean other countries aren't "trying" to get away with the same thing. Always have and Always will. That is the nature of sport. You will have "cheats".
I'm 25...
and of course I don't believe other athletes are clean...but in most countries (and I don't think making comparison with chinese/east-german/sovjet athletes is very flattering, I mean of coutrse weknow about them, but they don't even count because for them sports was only a propaganda machine...we're talking about so called "clean" countries here (not to offense german/chinese/russian people on the board, the "cleanless" I refer to is only on the sports federations of the cold war period....) we don't do the cover-up, no....when someone is suspected of doping here (and we have that for example at the moment with Johan Museeuw for example....) they don't hide it, no...they put it in the papers, even too fast, because they don't know anything yet....but they don't hide, and they certainly don't send them to important races....
if they aren't caught I don't think tyhere's a problem because you cannot sentence someone without any proof......but if you do have evidence you need sanctions....the us failed to do that in the past....

TheBoiledEgg
Oct 22nd, 2003, 09:29 AM
UK's top sprinter in positive drug test

Duncan Mackay
Wednesday October 22, 2003
The Guardian

Dwain Chambers, the fastest man in Europe and one of Britain's main hopes for an Olympic gold medal next year, has tested positive for a new banned designer anabolic steroid and could face a life ban from the sport. Britain also faces being stripped of the 4 x 100m silver medal it won at the world athletics championships in Paris in August as Chambers was part of the team.

The 26-year-old Londoner seems certain to miss the games in Athens if he is found guilty of taking tetrahydrogestrinone (THG), which until last week was thought to be undetectable.

Sources familiar with the process have told the Guardian that traces of the drug were found in a urine sample that the European 100 metres champion and record-holder provided during an out-of-competition test at his training base in Saarbrucken, Germany, on August 1.

Officials of the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) tested Chambers and his training partners after a tip-off from the US Anti-Doping Agency (Usada).

They sent the sample to the International Olympic Committee-accredited laboratory at the University of California in Los Angeles where scientists had only recently established a test for the drug.

Chambers has the right for a second test, or B sample, to be performed on the August 1 test. If that also proves positive Chambers will face at the least a two-year suspension. That could be extended to a lifetime ban if officials of the IAAF decide he was involved in a conspiracy to cheat with others.

If Chambers is found guilty he will earn the unwanted distinction of being the biggest name ever to be unmasked as a cheat in British sport. The highest-profile athlete before him was Linford Christie, the 1992 Olympic 100m champion. But he tested positive when he was semi-retired in 1999 and for nandrolone, a drug which was the source of great controversy and which many athletes ingested unwittingly in health supplements.

Alain Baxter, who came third in the slalom in the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics in 2002 was stripped of his medal after testing positive for a stimulant, which was present in an over-the-counter cold cure. The other Britons who tested positive were generally little-known athletes.

Chambers is trained by Remi Korchemny, a septuagenarian Ukrainian emigré who once coached the 1972 Olympic 100m and 200m champion Valery Borzov and who now runs the KMA Track Club with Victor Conte.

Terry Madden, the chief executive of Usada, last week identified Conte's San Francisco-based Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative (Balco) as being the source of the new designer drug.

US officials knew nothing about it until they received an anonymous tip-off from a "high-profile" athletics coach who sent them a syringe containing traces of the steroid that is injected under the tongue.

Following weeks of scientific work at UCLA doctors discovered the molecular make-up of the steroid had been modified so it avoided the detection of sophisticated scanning machines.

A test was devised for the drug and more than 500 samples taken earlier in the year were analysed again. Up to 20 top US and international stars, including Olympic champions and world record holders, may have tested positive in what is potentially the biggest doping scandal in athletics history.

Chambers is only the second athlete after the American shot put champion Kevin Toth to have been publicly identified.

Chambers was Britain's athlete of the year in 2002 following a summer in which he claimed the European 100m title in Munich and then equalled Linford Christie's nine-year-old European record when he ran 9.87 seconds at a meeting in Paris.

He finds himself caught up in a growing scandal which has already seen Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery, the world's fastest male and female sprinters, among 40 sportsmen and women subpoenaed to give evidence tomorrow before a federal grand jury in San Francisco investigating Balco.

Last month, Internal Revenue Service agents, accompanied by representatives of the Food and Drug Administration, the San Mateo county narcotics taskforce and the Usada raided Balco's offices.

It has been alleged that during their inspection they found vials and containers containing anabolic steroids, human growth hormone and testosterone along with other doping paraphernalia.

Conte has denied that THG is a banned substance.

UK Athletics, the sport's governing body in this country, and Stellar, Chambers' agent, last night declined to comment.

Iconoclast
Oct 22nd, 2003, 11:41 AM
ta-dam, the difference between the US and the UK. Chambers' name is released after one failed drugged test, the Americans are still keeping quiet about the American athletes who tested positive.
Erh, what difference? The name was surfaced by a newspaper, not by British Athletics. Some of the names of American athletes have been made public as well - through the media. Chambers was tested for THG after a request from USADA. There is no need to snicker at the Americans. They are pursuing this vehemently. But releasing names of people prematurely can open up a can of lawsuits and cause damage to athletes that may be innocent.

Some national federations have a habit of protecting their athletes. In the case of the United States, there are a lot of them to protect. Some federations are still turning a blind eye - Greek athletics for instance. But the Americans are proving that they have stepped up. If they are found guilty, we will know who the cheats are. No need to hurry things.

Although I'm still highly skeptical about this THG ordeal. The bust seems unrealistically large. And what are the actual documented medical effects of THG? Did athletes take it through nutritional supplements, knowing it was illegal?

rand
Oct 22nd, 2003, 11:46 AM
the reason why the number of athletes is so high is evident....the drug wasn't detectable until a short time ago....so when the samples were taken the athletes probably thought nobody would find out....

gentenaire
Oct 22nd, 2003, 11:55 AM
But releasing names of people prematurely can open up a can of lawsuits

That's exactly the difference between the US and most other countries. When an American player is banned, it's a lot more damaging than when it's an athlete from another country, because of the lawsuits, because of the higher endorcement deals.

Some national federations have a habit of protecting their athletes. In the case of the United States, there are a lot of them to protect. Some federations are still turning a blind eye - Greek athletics for instance.

The Greeks also have a bad reputation, that much is true.


But the Americans are proving that they have stepped up.

Until now, they haven't proved anything. They've kept a blind eye for years. If they now release the big names, then that's prove they're changing things and have stepped things up. I'll just wait until they've released the names and have sanctioned the guilty athletes.

korben
Oct 22nd, 2003, 12:42 PM
http://www.dwainchambers.com/ :rolleyes:

CappyMania
Oct 22nd, 2003, 12:51 PM
Is that the same kind of relationship as the Germans or the Chinese??

Keep fooling yourself if you think "doping" is only a problem of the US.

Or wait are you one of those people who think US=bad, currupt; everyone else = pure and prestine?

It happens all over the world but US is only country who makes their people believe they're are the only clean sport nation and others are doped. Don't forget which country controls the media.


Why all the drug-free US athletes have always been way better than the doped European athletes? There's something to think about.

TheBoiledEgg
Oct 22nd, 2003, 12:54 PM
A big time coach got pissed off, and he got the THG and handed it over to a lab

the THG was only uncovered but over 20 big time US Athletes are known to have been exposed as well as other athletes like Dwain

i've always had my suspicions about Dwain
his body shape resembles Ben Johnson alot.

TheBoiledEgg
Oct 22nd, 2003, 12:57 PM
This is what THG is
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/3210876.stm

i suppose now Iconoclost is gonna come out with more mumbo-jumbo that its not on the banned list like he always does :rolleyes:

How can it be on the banned list if its only been uncovered ??

Also the IAAF are seriously gonna take into consideration, the banning of LIFE those guilty of conspiring/duping of this THG drug.

TheBoiledEgg
Oct 22nd, 2003, 12:59 PM
Why all the drug-free US athletes have always been way better than the doped European athletes? There's something to think about.


you mean like Jerome Young, Flo-Jo, Marion Jones, Tim Montomomery, Carl Lewis et all ???

we all know the reason why now

we need the likes of Michael Johnson, Ed Moses not two-faced corrupt bent champions

Iconoclast
Oct 22nd, 2003, 01:37 PM
i've always had my suspicions about Dwain
his body shape resembles Ben Johnson alot.
I agree with you about this point. His muscles look plain absurd, almost as if they are living a life of their own and just dragging him along.

Iconoclast
Oct 22nd, 2003, 01:54 PM
This is what THG is
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/3210876.stm

i suppose now Iconoclost is gonna come out with more mumbo-jumbo that its not on the banned list like he always does :rolleyes:

How can it be on the banned list if its only been uncovered ??

Also the IAAF are seriously gonna take into consideration, the banning of LIFE those guilty of conspiring/duping of this THG drug.
Factually speaking, modafinil wasn't on the banned list. It was chemically related to certain stimulants. Medical experts have stated that it offers no athletic advantage for sprinting. I'm not ruling out that it was used as a masking agent, though, but I still see it as a petty case, barely worthy of attention and certainly not enough to strip her of medals.

Of course, it gets a lot more interesting with the recent THG revelations which also involve Kelli White. But I still need to see some hardcore medical evidence and not some Q&A from the BBC that is based on the press release from the USADA.

I believe most top track & field athletes, regardless of event, are dopers. But let's catch them on something that is actually something.

Some counter-points are offered here:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2003-10-20-steroid-probe-focus_x.htm

"My understanding from what I have been told by experts in this field," Conte has written in e-mails, "is that a very small alteration in the molecular structure of an anabolic steroid can cause it to become totally ineffective.

"THG may not even reach the androgen receptor at all and there may be absolutely no anabolic effects. To make these kind of statements without a single scientific study to support them is outrageous."

Iconoclast
Oct 22nd, 2003, 01:59 PM
That's exactly the difference between the US and most other countries. When an American player is banned, it's a lot more damaging than when it's an athlete from another country, because of the lawsuits, because of the higher endorcement deals.
Does the name Kevin Toth ring a bell? Someone whispered Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery in my ears as well. Not to mention Kelli White. Several names are out. As 'out' as Dwain Chambers.

I agree that Americans are more watchful about opening themselves up to litigation. But they are not exactly keeping this presumed drug bust a state secret.

They can't run away from what they have already uncovered. But we don't need a rush to justice as Johnnie Cochran would say.

gentenaire
Oct 22nd, 2003, 03:08 PM
I've never heard of Kevin Toth, Marion and Tim haven't been mentioned in the press as being accused, as for Kelli White, isn't it convenient to use the same athlete that was caught earlier?

Rocketta
Oct 22nd, 2003, 03:14 PM
Gee sue the Americans because their sports organization doesn't let their athletes be crucified in the media before they are actually banned.

Here all of yawl are taking the news of this Brit as gospel. Has a test ever been wrong? Humans being the way they are I'm sure that has happened.

TheBoiledEgg
Oct 22nd, 2003, 03:20 PM
Gee sue the Americans because their sports organization doesn't let their athletes be crucified in the media before they are actually banned.

Here all of yawl are taking the news of this Brit as gospel. Has a test ever been wrong? Humans being the way they are I'm sure that has happened.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
you mean don't tell they got a + test in 1999 like Jerome Young who then went on and won GOLD at the Sydney Olympics etc.

it was only recently found out in Aug 2003 that he had FAILED a test in 1999.
Wonder how many more ..........

Rocketta
Oct 22nd, 2003, 03:26 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
you mean don't tell they got a + test in 1999 like Jerome Young who then went on and won GOLD at the Sydney Olympics etc.

it was only recently found out in Aug 2003 that he had FAILED a test in 1999.
Wonder how many more ..........

Was he sanctioned? I think u have a problem with how the US federation sanctions their guys and that's fine but no If someone is not sanctioned or banned then no I don't think their name should be told. What would be the point if he is still eligible to compete?

Now should he have been banned? I don't know. I don't know the story.

TheBoiledEgg
Oct 22nd, 2003, 03:40 PM
He should have been banned
and he got away scot-free

US officials didn't tell the IAAF of his misdemeanour :o

and he won GOLD again at this yr World Champs :mad:

he was probably on THG this time

korben
Oct 23rd, 2003, 10:33 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2614-2003Oct22.html

U.S. Runner Jacobs Tested Positive for Steroid
Middle-Distance Veteran Said to Be Among 5 Track and Field Athletes Caught Using THG

By Amy Shipley
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, October 23, 2003; Page D01

Regina Jacobs, a 15-time U.S. national champion middle-distance runner and five-time world medalist, is among the five track and field athletes who have tested positive for the designer steroid tetrahydrogestrinone (THG), according to track sources.

Jacobs, 40, becomes the third athlete identified in the crackdown that U.S. Anti-Doping Agency officials are calling the biggest anabolic steroids bust in sports history.

British sprinter Dwain Chambers -- a training partner of U.S. sprinters Kelli White and Chryste Gaines under Coach Remi Korchemney -- was named yesterday by the Guardian newspaper in London as another of the athletes who has tested positive. His attorney, Graham Shear, confirmed the report.

korben
Oct 23rd, 2003, 10:40 AM
I´m not sure if all get same advertisements on that page.

At bottom :

"Cheap Anabolic Steroids" and "Safely Use Steroids" , this can only happen in America :rolleyes:

gentenaire
Oct 23rd, 2003, 11:58 AM
What, now there are only 5 who tested positive? What about the world champions and olympic champions?

LOL@the adds at the bottom

rand
Oct 23rd, 2003, 12:01 PM
What, now there are only 5 who tested positive? What about the world champions and olympic champions?

LOL@the adds at the bottom
how do you say doofpot in english?

mauresmofan
Oct 28th, 2003, 03:58 PM
Gaines Is Said to Be on List
Olympic relay gold medalist is among three U.S. track and field champions who have tested positive for stimulant, sources say.

By Alan Abrahamson, Times Staff Writer


Three U.S. track and field champions tested positive for the stimulant modafinil over the summer, among them sprinter and Olympic gold medalist Chryste Gaines, sources familiar with the inquiry into stimulants and a newly detected "designer steroid" said Monday.

Those testing positive after the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency reviewed results from samples taken at the U.S. outdoor track championships this June at Stanford, include Gaines, who won gold in the women's 400 relay at the 1996 Summer Games in Atlanta; Sandra Glover, a four-time U.S. champion in the women's 400 hurdles who was second at the world track championships in August at Paris, and Eric Thomas, 2003 U.S. outdoor 400 hurdles champion.

At least half a dozen U.S. athletes are believed to have tested positive for the same stimulant. Calvin Harrison, a gold medalist at the 2000 Olympic Games in the 1,600 relay, has acknowledged a positive test. Doctors use modafinil to treat narcolepsy, a sleeping disorder, and it is not clear why there was a surge in use of the substance by athletes.

Naming of U.S. athletes with positive tests was triggered by the disclosure two weeks ago of what USADA indicated was widespread use of the stimulant as well as the designer steroid, tetrahydrogestrinone, or THG. USADA's chief executive, Terry Madden, has said THG was identified after an anonymous tip from a self-described "high profile" track coach.

USADA has tied the discovery and distribution of THG to Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative (BALCO), of Burlingame, Calif. BALCO is the focus of a grand jury now sitting in San Francisco. The company's founder, Victor Conte, is widely known in track circles. He has denied wrongdoing.

Another figure drawing considerable interest is track coach Remi Korchemny, now living in the Bay Area. A generation ago, Korchemny helped train Soviet sprint star Valeri Borzov, an Olympic gold medalist. Korchemny has said he had never heard of BALCO until one of his runners, Gaines, worked out with NFL standout Bill Romanowski, an Oakland Raider linebacker who then played for the Denver Broncos.

Korchemny did not return a phone call Monday to his home.

Forty athletes have been subpoenaed to testify before the grand jury, according to Conte. CBS Sports reported Sunday that seven current or former Raiders, including Romanowski, are on the list.

Others are Barry Bonds of the San Francisco Giants and Jason Giambi of the New York Yankees, boxer Shane Mosley and track standouts Kelli White, a sprinter, and Kevin Toth, a shotputter.

The scope of the federal inquiry has not been announced. A subpoena is merely a legal request for testimony or information and does not indicate misconduct.

White tested positive at the world track championships in Paris for modafinil. So did hurdler Chris Phillips. White won the women's 100- and 200-meter sprints. Phillips finished sixth in the men's 110-meter hurdles.

Modafinil is a stimulant. THG is a steroid. Both stimulants and steroids have long histories in track and field. Steroids build muscles and enable an athlete to train harder and longer. Stimulants energize. Some within track and field, however, have come to believe that a particular stimulant can "mask," or hide, steroid use, and the connection, if any, between modafinil and THG is not known.

At least one internationally recognized expert on the use of drugs in sport, Long Island internist Gary Wadler, said that such a connection would seem to make little sense.

The performance-enhancing effects of THG, according to USADA, can last for months. But it is detectable in the body for only a few days after ingestion. For an athlete following a carefully planned ingestion schedule, THG would thus be all but "invisible to detection," Wadler said, adding, "So why would you take something to make something [supposed to be] invisible, invisible?"

Four U.S. track performers and Europe's fastest sprinter, Britain's Dwain Chambers, are believed to have tested positive for THG. News accounts have identified three of the four Americans — distance standout Regina Jacobs, hammer thrower John McEwen and Toth. Jacobs was identified by the Washington Post; McEwen by the Chicago Tribune; Toth by the Post and the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Chambers' lawyer issued a statement last week acknowledging that the sprinter had tested positive for THG. None of the three Americans has acknowledged a positive test.

"She doesn't know what THG is," Jacobs' attorney, New York lawyer Ed Williams, said.

Gaines, reached on her mobile phone, was asked if she'd been notified of a positive modafinil test.

"I haven't gotten anything," she said, then ended the call and did not return another call seeking further comment. Her agent, Renaldo Nehemiah, did not return calls to his office.

Glover did not return a call to her mobile phone.

Thomas' agent, Caroline Feith, reached on her mobile phone in the Netherlands, said, "I haven't gotten any official documentation. Until then, I can't say anything."

All tests must yet be confirmed by further laboratory analysis, and a sometimes-lengthy hearing and appeals process must run its course before sports authorities confirm a sanction, if any, against a particular athlete.

X-Lurker
Oct 29th, 2003, 04:31 AM
He should have been banned
and he got away scot-free

US officials didn't tell the IAAF of his misdemeanour :o

and he won GOLD again at this yr World Champs :mad:

he was probably on THG this time

You're totally right in pointing out that egregious example but...how do we know that other countries haven't done the same thing? It's not like the U.S. wins all the gold medals.

You have to differentiate between USATF and "the U.S."

The guys at USADA have done a great job and law officials have criminalized this drug...which means that with a grand jury etc., that more might come out than if they just relied on positive tests.

The U.S. appears to be getting it's act together...

...which is in marked contrast to the tennis world. Mark Miles was quoted in the NY Times as saying he was surprised that track and field could go back and retroactively test for THG and strongly hinted that the ATP wouldn't be doing that.

So :rolleyes: at tennis, which, despite the tens of millions of dollars the top players make has nooobody who would be tempted to do juice.

Question: If a winner of a major tested positive do you think it would actually come out? I honestly don't know.

gentenaire
Nov 19th, 2003, 06:08 AM
Just thought I'd bump this. So, where are those 40 names?

"some of the biggest names in sport." ""I know of no other drug bust that is larger than this involving the number of athletes involved,''

rand
Nov 19th, 2003, 07:30 AM
did you realy thing they would release the names? nah......

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 19th, 2003, 07:37 AM
The names should not be released until people are at least formally charged with something. Why defame the reputations of people who may be innocent?

It certainly looks like this is the worst kind of deliberate doping, if it is true. It's not something debatable like a high pseudoephedrine reading. People, there is a huge difference.

Even if this substance doesn't actually work (as Iconoclast suggests) it certainly looks like they were attempting to get an anabolic steroid effect while cunningly hiding what they were doing.

But why the rush for judgment by the media? I see no need for any country to release names at this stage, and I fully support the right of any athlete to sue if defamed.

gentenaire
Nov 19th, 2003, 08:00 AM
At this stage? They tested positive in June! Surely they had enough time to get the second samples tested? If the Brits can do it, why can't the Americans?

TheBoiledEgg
Nov 19th, 2003, 08:16 AM
some good news, finally FIFA has joined up to WADA
now hopefully Rio Ferdinand will be banned for 2 yrs

Soccer-Doping-WADA reach deal with FIFA in doping dispute (11/18/2003)
MONTREAL, Nov 18 (Reuters) - The head of the World Anti-Doping Agency said on Tuesday a deal had been reached with soccer's governing body over sanctions for players caught using illicit performance-enhancing drugs.

Dick Pound, president of the Montreal-based anti-doping watchdog, said FIFA, the world soccer federation, would be able to individually assess any case involving an athlete who contravened drug rules instead of being forced to apply an automatic two-year ban on competing.

"We addressed all the concerns that FIFA had, which were that there should not be an absolutely arbitrary, mandatory two-year sanction in the event of a doping offense," Pound told reporters during a conference call.

"They felt that every case was an individual case and had to be treated as such and we fully agreed."

Pound said his agency, established through the International Olympic Committee in 1999 to help eradicate the use of performance-enhancing drugs in sports, had agreed to send a drug-testing squad to FIFA's World Youth Championship in the United Arab Emirates this month.

TheBoiledEgg
Nov 19th, 2003, 08:17 AM
Doping-THG steriod scandal swirling around NFL (11/18/2003)
By Steve Keating

SAN FRANCISCO, Nov 18 (Reuters) - North America's professional sports leagues continue to be buffeted by the storm over the steroid THG with the NFL and Oakland Raiders under pressure to confirm positive tests of four players.

The NFL was plunged into the escalating steroid scandal on Sunday when CBS SportsLine.com reported that Raider linebacker Bill Romanowski, center Barret Robbins, defensive tackles Dana Stubblefield and Chris Cooper face bans after being notified they had tested positive for THG (tetrahydrogestrinone).

The report comes on the heels of Major League Baseball's announcement on Thursday that it will begin testing for steroids next season, including THG, after more than five percent of players produced positive tests in a 2003 testing survey.

The number of positives, between five and seven percent, exceeded the threshold agreed to in the collective bargaining agreement triggering automatic testing starting next season.

MLB said it will not name any of those players who tested positive in the survey while the NFL has also remained tight-lipped refusing to confirm or deny the reports about the four Raiders.


APPEALS PROCESS

"We don't comment on test results, it's confidential," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told Reuters. "Any suspensions are announced after the appeals process.

"From testing to announcing suspensions can take several weeks to several months."

Raider officials have also denied knowledge of any positive tests, as did Raiders coach Bill Callahan on Monday after being grilled by the media at the team's practice facility.

Callahan, however, pointed out that under the NFL's anti-doping procedures, teams and coaches are not usually informed until all appeals have been exhausted and a player is about to serve his suspension.

"I don't think this has affected us positively, we're all hurt by this," Callahan told reporters. "I haven't had any confirmation on that from the league.

"Normally when a player does get suspended, the day they get suspended is the day I'm informed.

"At this point I haven't heard from the league yet."

Questioned about the reports following the Raiders' 28-18 victory on Sunday over the Minnesota Vikings, Robbins said he was aware of CBS reports but insisted he had not received any notice from the league concerning a positive test.

"That's something that's out there," Robbins told reporters. "I haven't been notified of that. I don't think it's right the way it's been handled and that's all I'm going to say about it."

Stubblefield and Cooper are among a large group athletes, including baseball big name Barry Bonds and world's fastest man Tim Montgomery, who have already or are scheduled to testify before a federal grand jury conducting an investigation into the Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative (BALCO) and its president Victor Conte.

The United States Anti-Doping Agency suspects BALCO was the chief source of the previously undetectable designer drug.

Romanowski, a Pro-Bowl linebacker, and Robbins, who went AWOL on the eve of last year's Super Bowl and was later treated for bipolar disorder, have also been subpoenaed to testify in the BALCO case, according to media reports in the U.S.

According to Aiello, the NFL conducts over 10,000 drug tests each season, the league adding THG to its list of banned substances last month as soon as it was identified as a steroid.

While the NFL has what it terms a zero-tolerance policy on steroid use, suspensions would not be considered severe when compared to the lengthy bans of two years and more awaiting athletes, swimmers and cyclists found guilty of using performance-enhancing drugs.

First-time offenders in the NFL face four-game bans and second-time offenders receive a six-game suspension.

A player producing a third positive test could face a maximum one-year suspension.

MLB suspensions are also a maximum one year but a player would have to test positive five times to receive that penalty.

Four U.S. track and field athletes have tested positive for THG, American officials have said, as has European 100 metres champion Dwain Chambers.

MLB will not confirm who tested positive in their test survey or what steroid they found making the NFL the first professional sports league to be linked directly with the designer steroid.

http://www.wada-ama.org/en/t1.asp?wnews=120499&cat=63

TheBoiledEgg
Nov 19th, 2003, 08:20 AM
Dick Pound at yesterdays teleconference:

http://www.wada-ama.org/en/t2.asp?p=30633&wfeed=18november2003


http://www.wada-ama.org/en/t1.asp?wnews=120524&cat=63#
Doping-Countries not backing WADA may be barred as Olympic hosts (11/18/2003)
By Robert Melnbardis

MONTREAL, Nov 18 (Reuters) - Countries that fail to pay their dues to the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) or adopt its drug-ban code could be barred from seeking to host the Olympic Games, the sport watchdog's president warned on Tuesday.

Dick Pound said the agency had received less than two-thirds of the funding expected from countries for 2003. Late payers included the United States, Ukraine and Italy, he added in a conference call before a WADA meeting on Thursday and Friday.

At its meeting here the board will vote on sanctions against countries failing to pay or adopt the anti-doping code. Measures contemplated include denying accreditation for government officials and banning their national anthems at the Games.

International Olympic Committee (IOC) President Jacques Rogge has supported even tougher sanctions, Pound said.

"Over and above that, the IOC president has indicated that at the next session he is considering amending the Olympic charter to say that countries that have not paid their contributions to WADA and have not adopted the code will not be eligible to be candidate cities to host the Games," he said.

Not only is funding inadequate to meet WADA's $20 million annual budget for 2003, but the December 31 deadline is looming for 2004 contributions.

Pound acknowledged that if the U.S. fails to make its 2004 contribution by an extended June 30 deadline, New York could have to withdraw from the race to host the 2012 Olympics.

"It would affect any country that has not paid, and there may well be a number of them by the time we get to Athens, even if we change our payment deadline to June 30," Pound said.

"It certainly would include Brazil, for example, which has never paid anything towards WADA."


FUNDING CRITICAL

To date, 87 countries and dozens of sports agencies and federations have adopted the World Anti-Doping Code, aimed at harmonising rules against the illicit use of performance enhancing drugs.

Funding from countries for WADA, which was established in 1999 through an initiative of the IOC to foster a doping-free culture in sport, is critical because the IOC matches those contributions, Pound said.

Pound said he learned from a White House official on Tuesday that the U.S. is prepared to contribute $800,000 to WADA's 2003 budget, not the $1 million promised earlier.

Pound said President George Bush's Administration does not seem to support the anti-doping crusade being led by WADA and other agencies.

"We're very disappointed in, simply, the lack of interest on the part of the White House in this very serious problem," Pound said.

He pointed to growing evidence of doping in professional sports such as Major League Baseball and the National Football League.

Amateur athletes face strict and often career-ending sanctions when they are caught using performance-enhancing drugs, whereas professionals face more lenient treatment.

"In the professional leagues to date ... it almost looks as if every effort is being made to get cheaters back in play as soon as possible," he said.

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 19th, 2003, 08:53 AM
At this stage? They tested positive in June! Surely they had enough time to get the second samples tested? If the Brits can do it, why can't the Americans?



I'm getting very confused here. See this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/3203005.stm

Chambers 'fails drugs test'

British sprinter Dwain Chambers has tested positive for the banned designer steroid tetrahydrogestrinone (THG), according to The Guardian newspaper. The Guardian reported on Wednesday that traces of the drug were found in a urine sample given by the athlete in an out-of-competition test.

A second, or B test on the same sample has yet to take place.
Chambers' coach has refused to comment on The Guardian's claims.

.


So someone blabbed to the press about Chambers before the second test.

I have no idea why it takes so long to do a second test, but the Brits seem to take their time, too.

The process being talked about in the US is only that people have been subpoenaed to take part in what must surely be a complex process before a grand jury before any charges are laid. It is only an investigation into whether charges will be laid --that is the nature of a grand jury in the US. It is not the same as a jury trial, completely different process. Don't get confused by the word "jury". Technically, the jury that declares guilt or aquittal is a "petit jury".

Anyway, it's a very early stage of what will be a complex case, so I'm not surprised that the names on the subpoenas have been kept confidential so far. If anyone is charged with anything, I assume there will be a public trial.

rand
Nov 19th, 2003, 08:57 AM
I'm getting very confused here. See this.




So someone blabbed to the press about Chambers before the second test.

I have no idea why it takes so long to do a second test, but the Brits seem to take their time, too.

The process being talked about in the US is only that people have been subpoenaed to take part in what must surely be a complex process before a grand jury before any charges are laid. It is only an investigation into whether charges will be laid --that is the nature of a grand jury in the US. It is not the same as a jury trial, completely different process. Don't get confused by the word "jury". Technically, the jury that declares guilt or aquittal is a "petit jury".

Anyway, it's a very early stage of what will be a complex case, so I'm not surprised that the names on the subpoenas have been kept confidential so far. If anyone is charged with anything, I assume there will be a public trial.
yes, but probably when the athletes' careers will be over, so it won't matter anyway..... :sad:
sorry but more than 5 months for the second tests? :eek:

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 19th, 2003, 09:06 AM
Yes, but my point is that no one has been charged with anything. These people have been subpoenaed to give evidence to an investigatory body that will decide whether charges are laid against anyone.

Why is that so hard for people to understand.

The second tests bit is not very relevant. I was merely pointing out to Tine that the reason this Brit's name got out wasn't because a second test had been done in Britain. It was because someone leaked information to The Guardian based on the first test.

Now why the Americans would be going through this incredibly expensive investigation if they weren't genuinely trying to get to the bottom of it is beyond me. I don't see any reason to be cynical about that end of it and nor can I see why people are clamouring for names to be named at such an early point. Yet again, these people have not been charged with anything as yet. They have merely been served with subpoenas to tell what (if anything) they know. We have no idea at this stage who knows what, so I don't see why anyone should have been named yet when the subpoenas have not even been returned to the grand jury. What can possibly be sinister about that? It seems like a reasonable protection of their positions until the case is at least a bit further advanced.

gentenaire
Nov 19th, 2003, 09:21 AM
Either you tested positive or you didn't. The public has a right to know who tested positive. What if they decide they're not going to press charges?

BTW, Chambers's second sample was also positive, Chambers has even admitted to taking the drug. Why make it so complicated? If both samples are positive, punish the athlete, it's as simple as that!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/3242879.stm

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 19th, 2003, 09:56 AM
Either you tested positive or you didn't. The public has a right to know who tested positive. What if they decide they're not going to press charges?



Okay, he's since tested positive a second time, but that isn't how his name came out. Aren't we talking about when people should be named?

Personally, I care more about individual rights to privacy and reputation than the so-called "public's right to know" which is the excuse that irresponsible journalists use to defame innocent people. The claim that there is such a right is a very complex issue, and any such right has to have strong safeguards so that individuals are not destroyed by tabloid journalist and a public that loves to be titillated by stories of the misdeeds of others.

Anyway, there are sooooo many issues here, but the only one I was originally commenting on was naming names of people who may be innocent. Isn't the whole scandal we are talking about the matter before the grand jury? What I am saying is that I don't see why the names of the people who have been subpoenaed should be named at such an early stage of that inquiry.

All the other points get very complex, and my comment didn't relate to them. More generally, people seemed to be expressing cynicism about whether anyone will ever be punished or identified as a result of this grand jury investigation. I just can't see why. I mean it can feel good being cynical, you know? You can feel smarter than all those naive people. :) In my experience, though, premature cynicism is just as much a trap as naivety. People often believe the worst but it's not justified when all the facts come out.

Let's let the process take its course.

gentenaire
Nov 19th, 2003, 10:01 AM
Early stage, you say? What more do they need to figure out? If the samples are positive, that should be enough to accuse athletes. What's this whole investigation that needs to be performed? Since when are athletes only guilty if there's been an inquiry that lasts a year?

korben
Nov 19th, 2003, 10:09 AM
NFL and MLB taking rough measures against cheaters :lol:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A49473-2003Nov16?language=printer

4 Raiders Test Positive For THG
Use of Steroid May Lead to Suspensions

Monday, November 17, 2003; Page D01

OAKLAND, Calif., Nov. 16 -- Four members of the Oakland Raiders, including former Redskins defensive tackle Dana Stubblefield, have tested positive for the designer steroid THG, a source familiar with the results confirmed Sunday.

clip,clip,clip....

The four players that tested positive were Stubblefield, center Barret Robbins, linebacker Bill Romanowski and defensive tackle Chris Cooper, the source confirmed. The players face four-game suspensions unless their appeals are successful.

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Baseball To Test For Steroids

NEW YORK, Nov. 13, 2003

(AP) Major League Baseball will begin penalizing players for steroid use next season after learning that more than 5 percent of this year's tests came back positive.

MLB said of 1,438 anonymous tests this season, between 5 and 7 percent were positive. (so 70+ cheaters got away with it)

Starting next year, a first positive test for steroid use would result in treatment and a second in a 15-day suspension or fine of up to $10,000.

The length of penalties would increase to a 25-day suspension or fine of up to $25,000 for a third positive test, a 50-day suspension or fine of up to $50,000 for a fourth and a one-year suspension and fine of up to $100,000 for a fifth. The suspensions would be without pay.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/23/health/main579709.shtml

Compare that to penalties in other countries/sports.
First gets 2 years suspension, second lifetime ban.

gentenaire
Nov 19th, 2003, 10:13 AM
Gee, those tough penalties is going to stop them from doping :rolleyes:

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 19th, 2003, 11:05 AM
*sigh*

I'm not sure if we're even talking about the same thing anymore. I see a grand jury process involving extremely complex allegations not just that certain athletes doped but that there was an elaborate conspiracy and that all sorts of people knew all sorts of things, whether or not they used the drug themselves. Of course that is going to be a long, complicated procedure. Defense lawyers for those under suspicion will fight any such case every inch of the way, as they should do. A free society has those sorts of protections for individuals.

That does not mean, as some people said, that nothing will ever come out of it.

As for whether any of the forty athletes who have been subpoenaed actually tested positive for drugs, that is a separate issue. Why confuse the issues? :confused:

I assume that if anyone has actually tested positive there will be internal investigations by sporting bodies and names will be released if anyone is found guilty of doping. As I said earlier, this would be very serious, deliberate doping, from what we know so far. But that process has nothing to do with the grand jury investigation as far as I can see. If the complaint is that the internal procedure is taking too long, fine. I have no idea how long these things usually take. But that's nothing to do with my point.

gentenaire
Nov 19th, 2003, 11:10 AM
The articles clearly says athletes tested positive. Why can't they ban the athletes who tested positive while the investigation about those other allegations are going on? This grand jury process is very convenient for the guilty athletes. They can just continue taking part in international competitions.

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 19th, 2003, 11:16 AM
I've never disagreed with that. My comment was about the athletes caught up in the criminal case. My point was that no charges have even been laid. It was in response to some cynical remarks about that process.

I never said that internal investigations by sporting bodies should be put on hold pending the federal criminal investigation. Where does it say that that is happening? I'm not saying it's not happening, but I didn't pick it up if so. It's a genuine question.

gentenaire
Nov 19th, 2003, 11:27 AM
That is what I was talking about, Joui. We'd said in earlier posts, when the scandal first broke, that we believed no big names would ever be released, that nothing would come of it. The articles clearly say dozens of athletes tested positive. That was in June, the B-samples should have been tested by now. The only names to have come out or of athletes I've never heard of and Dwain Chambers, a Brit. If the Brits can take responsibility, why can't the Americans? That's what we're trying to say. Those big names who tested positive should have been released by now, they're not.

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 19th, 2003, 11:39 AM
Nearly my bedtime. I can't see anything in the stories about dozens of athletes having tested positive, but you may be right.

All I can see are references to "several" or "three" and a claim that about 40 "may have" been served with subpoenas. That doesn't mean they tested positive, only that it is thought they may (or may not) know something. Hey, I may even have missed something. I'm simultaneously working here.

But, see, you wouldn't expect to know the name of someone who has merely been subpoenaed to give evidence. I don't even know if a subpoena necessarily even goes on the public record at the time it is issued in the US federal system. Maybe it does but maybe not. It might just be stamped by a court officer and all the copies taken away by the prosecutors.

Issuing a subpoena is a very easy thing to do and it proves nothing.

gentenaire
Nov 19th, 2003, 11:44 AM
You're right, the 40 isn't the number of stars that have tested positive. It's about 20, apparently.

[Up to 20 stars are said to have tested positive for the steroid in what could be one of the biggest doping scandals in history, though anti-doping officials are refusing to reveal their identities until tests on second 'B' samples have been carried out.

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 19th, 2003, 12:02 PM
"Up to 20" according to one of those reports. Okay. Certainly not all the people who "may have been served" with subpoenas.

Oh well, must get some work done.

I don't know what the delay is with the sports administrators naming people. I suppose it is partly a policy of not naming names until appeals are heard etc. I agree that the excuse about the second test not being done yet is odd. I wonder if that is the real reason.

Whatever the merits of that, this federal investigation does look like the American justice system is taking it seriously.

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 19th, 2003, 12:39 PM
*off to bed*
Good discussion, Tine, and I see some of your points. I'm not totally dogmatic, y'know. ;)