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View Full Version : Fellow Canadians, is this one of the signs of the apocalypse?


alexusjonesfan
Oct 17th, 2003, 12:37 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/photos/mackay_harper_cp_5076825.jpg

OTTAWA - The leaders of the Progressive Conservatives and the Canadian Alliance made it official on Thursday. "We are announcing today," said Tory leader Peter MacKay, "an agreement in principle for the union of our parties, and a reunion of conservatives across Canada."

MacKay won his party's leadership just four months ago after pledging – in writing – not to merge with the Alliance. But late Wednesday night, he signed an agreement to do just that.
Stephen Harper, the Canadian Alliance leader, was also a reluctant convert to the merger. He once pledged he'd have no truck or trade with the Tories. But when he appeared before reporters in the National Press Theatre in Ottawa his attitude had changed. "Some people know that I don't get excited too often, but I had difficulty sleeping last night," he said.

What the leaders have agreed to is a proposal to merge. Both parties must ratify the deal by Dec. 12. If approved, there will be a membership drive for the new party, all old cards will be void.

A new leader will be chosen late in March with equal votes coming from each riding. Existing MPs will not be automatic candidates; riding contests will be open, and an interim joint council will write a new first constitution.

Since the timeline is so short there are no plans for a founding policy convention before an expected spring election. MacKay says the new party will have to be ready for a quick election. He says Paul Martin, who is expected to become Liberal leader next month, may call a spring election, "but we have no control over that."

With the broad strokes of policy already in the deal, including the equality of French and English and progressive social policies, it suggests the Tories have come out the winner in policy field, in the process of electing a new leader, and even the new name, which will be the Conservative Party of Canada.

Harper agrees that the Canadian Alliance made "significant concessions." "I am not going to deny that," he said. But, Harper said, the governing Liberals would no longer be able stand for re-election with a divided opposition. "Our swords will henceforth be pointed at the Liberals, not at each other."

The job now is to convince their two parties about the wisdom of becoming one again after 16 years of separation.

Written by CBC News Online staff
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:eek:

I'm not sure where 'small c' conservatives will fit in here and whether this new party will just predictably crowd the centre with pretty much everyone else or try to move most conservatives further right.

thoughts?

disposablehero
Oct 17th, 2003, 12:50 AM
I find the decade or so has been a monumental evolution in Canadian politics. First, the Reform party is founded, mainly by disgruntled former members of the Conservative Party. Then in 1993, the Reform party takes a surprising number of seats. In 1998 they become the Official Opposition, and talks of a merger with the Conservative Party begin. To further this end, they shortly thereafter change their name to the Canadian Alliance Party, which brings them a few but not many former members of the Conservative Party. Then the Canadian Alliance Party find themselves a bigwig from the Alberta Conservative Party (who jetskis) as their new leader. He doesn't work out, but the unification effort remains. Which brings us to now, a union of the two parties, with the new entity known as the "Conservative Party".

polishprodigy
Oct 17th, 2003, 02:15 AM
I think this is a good thing. I don't like Orchard, and he is the head of the pack of those who disagree with the merger. I just hope that a decent leader can be chosen (not Mckay or Harper). I hope that the new conservative party can make a big gain this next election or maybe even win it all (which I find unlikely but there's always hope ;)) I just hope that they go moderate and not alliance-very right wing cuz that would hurt the party's chances! They need a moderate leader!

disposablehero
Oct 17th, 2003, 02:19 AM
I just hope that a decent leader can be chosen (not Mckay or Harper).

Between the entire membership of both parties, there is only one decent leader. And he is the Liberal Premier of Quebec.

alexusjonesfan
Oct 17th, 2003, 02:49 AM
Between the entire membership of both parties, there is only one decent leader. And he is the Liberal Premier of Quebec.
:lol:

Maybe Doris Day should announce a comeback :tape:

btw does MacKay know what he's doing? Joe Clark wouldn't go along with the merger because he felt the Tories would be made 'junior partner'. Harper has apparently given into some concessions but I think he'll run circles around prettyboy MacKay in terms of wits. I don't know very much about Conservative politics (or politics in general for that matter) but to the politics gurus out there, does it seem like MacKay'll do anything to either become PM or at least kingmaker? He just went back on a whole whack of stuff he conceded to David Orchard for his support in the leadership race and now this (does he have any ideological consistency?). Is it just me or will Harper just play him like a marionette?

Barrie_Dude
Oct 18th, 2003, 12:54 AM
It is surely a sign of the appocolypse if they run Mike Harris in the next election and there is a very good chance they might! Be afraid, Canada, be very afraid! :scared:

alexusjonesfan
Oct 18th, 2003, 04:46 AM
It is surely a sign of the appocolypse if they run Mike Harris in the next election and there is a very good chance they might! Be afraid, Canada, be very afraid! :scared:

Time for the 'common sense' revolution to go national. You think the nurse at your hospital isn't paid enough? Tough! You think your kids' teachers shouldn't be forced to play T-ball with em? Tough! You think you deserve uninterrupted, reliable access to electricty? Tough! :o

Crazy Canuck
Oct 18th, 2003, 05:35 AM
It's all good, I wasn't really fond of a national health care plan anyways!

Barrie_Dude
Oct 18th, 2003, 05:44 AM
It's all good, I wasn't really fond of a national health care plan anyways!
Well, there will, I am sure, be a death tax as well!

*JR*
Oct 18th, 2003, 10:23 AM
Is Margit Trudeau available? :p

alexusjonesfan
Oct 18th, 2003, 03:07 PM
It's all good, I wasn't really fond of a national health care plan anyways!

I know only of OHIP :scratch:

Is there a national one I should be milking instead?

alexusjonesfan
Oct 18th, 2003, 03:09 PM
Is Margit Trudeau available? :p

no, but I bet Justin (the son)'s waiting in the wings for the Libs...along with Ben Mulroney ( :p ) who, now that Arnold's governor in Cali, will try to use his skills from hosting 'Canadian Idol' into leading the 'Conservative Party of Canada' :o

Canada's Ryan Seachrest for PM! :worship:

oggie
Oct 18th, 2003, 05:05 PM
Neither MacKay noe Harper should lead the new party, and they probably won't either. Otherwise, it would seems as a takover rather than merging.

alexusjonesfan
Oct 18th, 2003, 05:26 PM
update: the tories are going to vote on accepting the merger and it seems like David Orchard is about to make a big stink. They need 2/3rds majority for the motion to pass. Joe Clark has already spoken against this merger and some other members of the party are unhappy. So it it's still far from a done deal.

*JR*
Oct 18th, 2003, 05:39 PM
NDP! :p

alexusjonesfan
Oct 18th, 2003, 06:10 PM
NDP! :p

you don't want CKB to come in here and chide you for your lefty-liberaltardness do you? :p

and JR it freaks me out how much you know about other countries :eek: (I don't even know how many political parties Mexico has, let alone which one is in power :o)

*makes mental note of never revealing playing trivial pursuit with JollyRoger*

Ted of Teds Tennis
Oct 18th, 2003, 06:53 PM
you don't want CKB to come in here and chide you for your lefty-liberaltardness do you? :p

He could have suggested you vote for the CCF, or the Socreds. :p

From "south of the border", it seems to me that all Canadian politics is about is a bunch of folks whining "I'm not American!", and "I'm more not American than you!" :)

The reason there are so many Canadian-born comic actors in the US is because all the funny Canadians emigrate south to make a success of their lives, while the humorless ones stay behind and whine about how wicked the US is because it doesn't force people into a government monopoly health care system. :p

Crazy Canuck
Oct 18th, 2003, 07:02 PM
He could have suggested you vote for the CCF, or the Socreds. :p

From "south of the border", it seems to me that all Canadian politics is about is a bunch of folks whining "I'm not American!", and "I'm more not American than you!" :)

The reason there are so many Canadian-born comic actors in the US is because all the funny Canadians emigrate south to make a success of their lives, while the humorless ones stay behind and whine about how wicked the US is because it doesn't force people into a government monopoly health care system. :p
That was a joke, right?

disposablehero
Oct 19th, 2003, 12:12 AM
NDP! :p

Stop that! We are trying to have a serious conversation here. :cool:

alexusjonesfan
Oct 19th, 2003, 12:16 AM
He could have suggested you vote for the CCF, or the Socreds. :p

From "south of the border", it seems to me that all Canadian politics is about is a bunch of folks whining "I'm not American!", and "I'm more not American than you!" :)

The reason there are so many Canadian-born comic actors in the US is because all the funny Canadians emigrate south to make a success of their lives, while the humorless ones stay behind and whine about how wicked the US is because it doesn't force people into a government monopoly health care system. :p

:scratch:

I'm writing this one down :lol:

Ted of Teds Tennis
Oct 19th, 2003, 04:42 AM
Crazy Canuck:

It was meant somewhat in jest -- but I have to admit that I listen to Radio Canada International on my shortwave radio, which carries a fair amount of rebroadcasts from the CBC (intended for Canadians abroad), and it seems to me that Canadian politicians are obsessed with the US, and being perceived by the rest of the world as different from the USA.

As for health care, I think I've mentioned in a number of threads here in the Non-Tennis section that I believe to take care of oneself includes the right to take care of one's health care needs by paying for them out of pocket. This would seem to require private-sector health care -- but every politician I hear on RCI/CBC seems to think private-sector health care is an evil idea.

pReUrBrIyN
Oct 19th, 2003, 04:45 AM
Even if the PC's and Alliance merge, with Martin it won't matter. The Liberals will sweep once again.

And I hope whoever posted NDP as a party that you should support reconsiders because the reason why I am so strongly against them is because they say that rich people should have higher taxes. Thats horrible.

LIBERALS ROCK

NDP sucks

pReUrBrIyN
Oct 19th, 2003, 04:46 AM
And besides McKay should not be trusted hes a dirty sneak who lied to his people saying that their would be no merge.

And Harper? :lol:

He's just an idiot.

alexusjonesfan
Oct 19th, 2003, 05:06 AM
Crazy Canuck:

It was meant somewhat in jest -- but I have to admit that I listen to Radio Canada International on my shortwave radio, which carries a fair amount of rebroadcasts from the CBC (intended for Canadians abroad), and it seems to me that Canadian politicians are obsessed with the US, and being perceived by the rest of the world as different from the USA.

As for health care, I think I've mentioned in a number of threads here in the Non-Tennis section that I believe to take care of oneself includes the right to take care of one's health care needs by paying for them out of pocket. This would seem to require private-sector health care -- but every politician I hear on RCI/CBC seems to think private-sector health care is an evil idea.

I know your response was meant for Becca but mind if I butt in for a second? I hope you're not judging a people by the rhetoric of their politicians :lol:
Yeah, it's true that many Canadians are obsessed with the fear of American cultural annexation and part of it has to come with the 'sleeping with the elephant' syndrome we find ourselves in ;)

It's also true that many government officials believe against privatized health-care, though if you think that's unanimous, Stephen Harper and the Province of Alberta would like to have a word with you ;)

It's kind of ironic that you mentioned this, because there was an editorial in this week's Toronto Star about the unfortunately rampant anti-Americanism in Toronto. It talked about some Americans (especially democrats) living in Toronto feeling stereotyped and restricted, even if they disagreed with their government's policies.

So, please don't think of all of us as stuck up, whiney, anti-American hosers and we'll try not to think of all of you as 10-gallon hat and cowboy boots with jeans and a blazer wearing Texans who want to bomb the 'ell outta their next oil source. :lol:

Crazy Canuck
Oct 19th, 2003, 08:29 AM
I personally have little fear of becoming "Americanized"... it's already happen, what use is there in being afraid of it? My entire life I've been bombarded with American products, wether they be food, music, television.... and I've ate, listened to, and watched them with little fuss. It's life... if i'm fed and entertained, I don't give a fuck where it came from. Most of my friends feel roughly the same way, I imagine... although I'm from southern ontario... perhaps other areas of Canada are less happy about such things ;)

Now.... whoever was going on about the NDP - too left for me. :p

*JR*
Oct 19th, 2003, 09:46 AM
Even if the PC's and Alliance merge, with Martin it won't matter. The Liberals will sweep once again.

And I hope whoever posted NDP as a party that you should support reconsiders because the reason why I am so strongly against them is because they say that rich people should have higher taxes. Thats horrible.
Too bad. (And if you're from BC, I only have one thing to say): UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU :p