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View Full Version : Kobe Defense Bombshell! Defense Claims To Have Evidence That Can Clear Him


lizchris
Oct 15th, 2003, 06:34 PM
In court today, Kobe Bryant's defense team claims to have additional evidence that can clear Kobe. They claim to have a "stain" from the accuser's panties that is from someone else other than Kobe :eek: .

I said it last week and I will say it again; the prosecution's case is falling apart.

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 15th, 2003, 06:36 PM
I hope...This f'ing skank wants money and got a bunch of her friends to say "oh, she is so brave...she is trying to get justice"...:rolleyes:

Should teach him to stay away from trailor trash.

lizchris
Oct 15th, 2003, 06:40 PM
There was an article from a Nigerian man who said he was smart enough to stay away from white women because of what Kobe is going through and he thought Kobe would be smart enough to do the same.

Hopefully, Kobe has learned his lesson.

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 06:42 PM
ah yes, of course, only white women would do this kind of thing :rolleyes:

Ballbuster
Oct 15th, 2003, 06:44 PM
ah yes, of course, only white women would do this kind of thing :rolleyes:

Well since you put it that way, maybe........


Winters also said two pairs of panties from the woman were tested — one from the night of June 30, the other being the one she wore to a hospital for an exam the next day.

The latter pair contained blood and semen, Winters said.

"The accuser arrived at the hospital wearing panties with someone else's semen and sperm in them, not that of Mr. Bryant, correct?" defense attorney Pamela Mackey asked.

"That's correct," Winters responded.

Pubic hair samples from the woman also turned up Caucasian hairs that could not have come from Bryant, who is black, Winters said.

In Wednesday's court filing, defense attorney Hal Haddon said prosecutors misrepresented blood evidence found on the underpants.

"The clear implication of this testimony was that the accuser was bleeding due to the alleged sexual assault," he said. The prosecution deliberately failed to "put before the court all of the evidence concerning those panties."

The defense said that evidence had been given to Gannett, under seal, and it provided "compelling evidence of innocence."

CC
Oct 15th, 2003, 06:48 PM
Panties
Panties panties
Panties panties panties
Panties panties panties panties
Pa

G-Ha
Oct 15th, 2003, 06:51 PM
ah yes, of course, only white women would do this kind of thing :rolleyes:

And not just white women...all white PEOPLE in general are very evil. Didn't you know?.... :rolleyes:

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 15th, 2003, 06:55 PM
I dont think anyone is saying that...:rolleyes:

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 15th, 2003, 06:56 PM
I am talking about the skank and the skank alone...Dirty skanks like does not for ligitimate rape victims...:mad:

mentos
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:00 PM
There was an article from a Nigerian man who said he was smart enough to stay away from white women because of what Kobe is going through and he thought Kobe would be smart enough to do the same.

Hopefully, Kobe has learned his lesson.

That article is immaterial to the facts...wanton married man, with young daughter and beautiful wife couldn't keep his PENIS in his pants...MOREOVER, the alleged victim could have been any race…it happens all the time and spans the racial divide.

G-Ha
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:02 PM
I am talking about the skank and the skank alone...Dirty skanks like does not for ligitimate rape victims...:mad:

Perhaps you are, but the statement about staying "away from white women" and hoping Kobe learned his lesson, sounds like "white women" in general to me, and not "skanks".

Ballbuster
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:11 PM
This girl (white woman) is wrong for that.

She showed up at the police department with a pair of dirty panties with semen from a caucasian from a previous sexual encounter.


This woman is just plain foul. How can she win this case if she have cum stains in her panties from all the boys in her neighborhood.


LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

This case is going to get Tossed!

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:23 PM
<<Sing>>
Her milkshake brings all the boys to the yard...
And their like, it's better than yours
She could teach you, but she would have to charge...:lol:

Ballbuster
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:27 PM
<<Sing>>
Her milkshake brings all the boys to the yard...
And their like, it's better than yours
She could teach you, but she would have to charge...:lol:


That doesn't make sense, and when are you going to show us what you REALLY look like?

I know you a screwed up little queen, and you know I'm A listed. Whenever you ready let's post pics and then visit a known poster on this board. What ya scared of.

griffin
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:29 PM
This girl (white woman) is wrong for that.

She showed up at the police department with a pair of dirty panties with semen from a caucasian from a previous sexual encounter.

This woman is just plain foul. How can she win this case if she have cum stains in her panties from all the boys in her neighborhood.

LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

This case is going to get Tossed!

Whether or not she consented to have sex with one person does not mean she consented to have sex with Kobe. It shouldn't take a law degree to figure that out.

Cariaoke
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:33 PM
so, because she had sex with other people, which men frequently do, Kobe didn't rape her? right...

the real issue here is disdain for women who seek and receive sexual pleasure. bringin' up her past sexual history will label her as 'unclean' therefore not virtuous. only virtuous women are raped.

in short, if she's had sex before, why didn't she give it to the accused? she's a loose woman after all. she has no right to say no.

note the sarcasm.

Ballbuster
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:34 PM
Whether or not she consented to have sex with one person does not mean she consented to have sex with Kobe. It shouldn't take a law degree to figure that out.


True.

But why would she show up in with semen and bloody filled panties Without the semen and blood of the man that raped her?

This is not good for her case. She showed up with some body else's semen in her vaginal walls and panties and said it was kobe's.

Cariaoke
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:36 PM
^ i thought the hearing was closed or no...

if that is indeed true, which i seriously doubt because they tested the dna of semen when Kobe was arrested, hence him saying 'i didn't sleep with that woman' to 'i cheated on my wife' in .0000002 seconds, the case is over.

obviously, the prosecution has evidence, dna or otherwise that kobe inserted his penis into her vagina, whether it was with consent or not.

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:37 PM
Whether or not she consented to have sex with one person does not mean she consented to have sex with Kobe. It shouldn't take a law degree to figure that out.

Reasonable doubt Griff...Remember that they are using the fact that this skank suffered severe trauma to her v'gina...cause by Kobe's emm member...if she screwed several guys in two or so days and nasty still got the same panties on then that creates reasonable doubt and that is what our justice system is based on....it does not take a law degree to figure that out...:rolleyes:

Ballbuster
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:37 PM
so, because she had sex with other people, which men frequently do, Kobe didn't rape her? right...

the real issue here is disdain for women who seek and receive sexual pleasure. bringin' up her past sexual history will label her as 'unclean' therefore not virtuous. only virtuous women are raped.

in short, if she's had sex before, why didn't she give it to the accused? she's a loose woman after all. she has no right to say no.

note the sarcasm.


NO, all she had to do was show up with a pair of clean panties.

Dawn Marie
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:42 PM
The reality is that IF this statement from the media is true then she might as well kiss this case good bye,Iif Kobe did rape or didn't rape the case will be dismissed because there will be no way that it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that it was Kobe's member that caused the accused rape.

the cat
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:42 PM
Well said Griffin! :worship: I don't think anyone should believe something that is just a claim and not proof. There is a professor at a Colorodo College that says the alleged victim is a wonderful girl who has great values. Am I so supposed to believe him because he said that? Let's let the case unfold in the court of law before rushing to judgement.

Ballbuster
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:44 PM
"The accuser arrived at the hospital wearing panties with someone else's semen and sperm in them, not that of Mr. Bryant, correct?" defense attorney Pamela Mackey asked.

"That's correct," Winters responded


Winters is lead investigator.


This case is FULL of reasonable doubt.

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:49 PM
would you mind providing us with the source, Ballbuster?

lizchris
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:49 PM
Let me get something straight:

I was quoting an article I read on AOL weeks ago about how blacks and whites see the Bryant case differently and the Nigerian immigrant made the statement that I was quoting.

When I said that hopefully Kobe will learn his lesson, I should have elaborated more by saying that hopefully he has learned that he should keep his pants on because by having sex with someone who isn't your wife, you run the potential of being accused of rape by a physco. Not saying this woman is, but it is looking like she may be playing fast and loose with the truth.

Car Key Boi
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:02 PM
heh, i posted an article from bayarea.com a few days back, about the cumstains and panties blah, and a lot yuo doubted it was true

DO NEVER TEST!

KOBE=WillBeFreedDueToReasonableDoubt Boi

Car Key Boi
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:04 PM
"The accuser arrived at the hospital wearing panties with someone else's semen and sperm in them, not that of Mr. Bryant, correct?" defense attorney Pamela Mackey asked.

"That's correct," Winters responded


Winters is lead investigator.


This case is FULL of reasonable doubt.

TROOF!

lizchris
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:16 PM
you don't think so? read what lizchris said about hoping he's learned his lesson....

you can go to any major city and see just as many black whores on the street as you would white.

Read my latest post and hopefully you will get it straight.

Car Key Boi
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:18 PM
would you mind providing us with the source, Ballbuster?

here's one http://www.nbcsandiego.com/sports/2555510/detail.html

KOBE HATERS=OWNZED! :D

kiwifan
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:24 PM
stand by what you said to begin with and hopefully you won't pussy out on your opinion when things get rough.

:devil: :lol: :devil: :lol: :devil: :lol: :devil: :lol: :devil:


:tape:



Cheers - :cool:



:bolt:



__________________________________________________ ______________
Post 900, I might have to retire soon. ;) :cool: ;)

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:25 PM
stand by what you said to begin with and hopefully you won't pussy out on your opinion when things get rough.

Oh she will.. But what are you doing in this thread started and driven by people whose only motivation in their choice between right and wrong is always their racial sympathies?

lizchris
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:37 PM
stand by what you said to begin with and hopefully you won't pussy out on your opinion when things get rough.

I am. It isn't my problem you can't understand what I wrote.

Ballbuster
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:38 PM
would you mind providing us with the source, Ballbuster?



www.usatoday.com

and every major news outlet sweetie. Oh that right, you from over there.

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:10 PM
actually, ys, i'm a lakers fan so when i saw this thread i came in to see how kobe's situation was doing. i didn't count on the other stuff. :)

Wow! You watch basketball? :eek:

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:10 PM
www.usatoday.com

and every major news outlet sweetie. Oh that right, you from over there.
Which would be why she had to ask, you dumb fuck ;)

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:14 PM
Wow! You watch basketball? :eek:

uh oh, DD, you have a new fan ;)

somebody alert King Satan.

Car Key Boi
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:14 PM
i understood completely what you said. it isn't my problem you renegged on it.


lol, GO DD! :kiss:

lizchriz=OWNZED by the Diva

= Car Key Boi :D

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:17 PM
no, ys. i watch tall men throw balls into a basket. ;)

Is it exciting? And what are they doing after their balls are in the basket?

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:19 PM
www.usatoday.com

and every major news outlet sweetie. Oh that right, you from over there.

yeah, I'm one of those trailer trash whites.

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:21 PM
THEY usually continue to run around. however, let's make this more personal so that you have a better understanding of things.

But if he is one of those guys doing that kind of stuff, doesn't it decisively prove his innocence in this case?

why don't you throw your balls into a basket?
get back to me on how it feels, ok? ;)

That's the scary idea you are suggesting.. I don't have balls to do that..

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:21 PM
:lol: how are you my dear? school's going good? :wavey: :kiss:

I'm very well, thank you. having a ball in the obesity thread, think i busted my gut, laughing...and i can't handle it, bay-beeeeeeee.

How are you? How's work?

King Satan
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:23 PM
my two girls are here! :) :wavey: :kiss: :kiss:

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:27 PM
lol! i'm good, thanks. and work's good too. i've been able to handle it thus far, bay-beeeeeeeee! :lol:

well, in case you CAN'T handle it, bay-beeeeeeeeeee, i'm sure ys will loan us his detachable balls. such a sweetie.

King Satan
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:28 PM
*wonders why my babes haven't said hi to me* :scratch:

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:29 PM
i'm sure ys will loan us his detachable balls. such a sweetie.

Don't raise false hopes.. Unless you also have something ... detachable .. to exchange..

*JR*
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:29 PM
Griff, Cari, and others emphasing that she DID have a right to say no, let's take a hypotheical here: IF the accuser accepted an invitation late @ night to go alone to the hotel room of an out-of-town celebrity, wasn't she possibly leading him on? Either implicitly accepting a sexual overture OR setting him up to let her ultimately cash in, whether (again?) "changing her mind" (this time re. filing a civil suit); OR planning to sell the story to the highest tabloid bidder later. If so, AND there's DNA evidence that another male MAY have caused any injuries, doesn't that @ least create "resonable doubt" in a criminal trial?

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:31 PM
*wonders why my babes haven't said hi to me* :scratch:

:devil:

cause we're evil. and you like it when we treat you badly.

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:31 PM
:) :wavey: hi joe!

aw, shit....

alright, I'm evil...and don't you forget it!!!!!! :mad:

King Satan
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:32 PM
much better! :angel:

how are my sweethearts doing today? :)

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:32 PM
Don't raise false hopes.. Unless you also have something ... detachable .. to exchange..

wow, that's uber-creepy :tape:

Serendy Willick
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:33 PM
so, because she had sex with other people, which men frequently do, Kobe didn't rape her? right...

the real issue here is disdain for women who seek and receive sexual pleasure. bringin' up her past sexual history will label her as 'unclean' therefore not virtuous. only virtuous women are raped.

in short, if she's had sex before, why didn't she give it to the accused? she's a loose woman after all. she has no right to say no.

note the sarcasm.


The only reason why her sexual history has been brought into this and rightfully so, is to discount these so called "injuries" that the procescution claimed that Bryant gave to her. If she was having sex with another man (whom btw, they asked two of them for a DNA sample and they both declined), that puts doubt into in any objective jurors mind if Bryant caused these injuries. BTW, The procecution has been bragging about this bellboy, but hasnt said anything about the Night Auditor who noticed nothing disheveled looking or crying about her. :rolleyes:

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:37 PM
If so, AND there's DNA evidence that another male MAY have caused any injuries, doesn't that @ least create "resonable doubt" in a criminal trial?

meaning, he probably had an accomplice.. Mike Tyson again?

Cariaoke
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:39 PM
look, i don't care if she went to his hotel room, laid on his bed butt ass naked and he walked in on her with her legs wide open with a sign on her stomach that said 'do me, baby' if he walked up, disrobed and went between her legs and before or even AFTER he inserted his penis into her vagina, if she said 'no' and he continued, it's rape. i think that's a pretty simple thing to grasp. i don't care if there was an orgy going on... if people watched, i don't care if she was a prostitute, skank, whore or virgin... no man has a right to force himself on a woman, PERIOD. got it?

and this is of course assuming Kobe raped her. I'm not saying whether he's innocent or not. I need more details. but it's fact that he did cheat on his wife.

and I really don't get the whole 'she's doing it for money' defense. if that was the case, she would have just done a civil trial that would have been thrown out due to lack of evidence.

do you really think that a woman would go through being persecuted by people who don't even know her, probes into her personal life because every rape victim is put on trial (what were you wearing? what time of day were you raped?) MORE THAN THE ACCUSED because let's face it, men don't rape women; they're tempted and can't control themselves. :tape: do you really think someone would go through all this drama for a check? surely, there are easier ways to earn money nowadays.

this all makes me laugh, really.

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:39 PM
oh roger, shut up! jeezus!

you know...maybe JR is taking the mickey.

ally baker
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:43 PM
Cari said it perfectly.

Even if Kobe didn't rape her... he's a scumbag, and I hope he rots.

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:43 PM
i don't care if there was an orgy going on...

It's always an orgy around here. Look in any thread.. Orgies everywhere.. The way it goes, soon we'll create threads for virtual sex, thread for sexual education, thread for lessons in sex technique, thread for sex among fat people, threads for sex among rugby players, thread for sex with 87 billion.. A lot, a lot..

King Satan
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:47 PM
oompa loompa time!!

http://www.oompa-loompas.net/pix/aboutus.gif

Cariaoke
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:47 PM
It's always an orgy around here. Look in any thread.. Orgies everywhere.. The way it goes, soon we'll create threads for virtual sex, thread for sexual education, thread for lessons in sex technique, thread for sex among fat people, threads for sex among rugby players, thread for sex with 87 billion.. A lot, a lot..
:haha: :haha:

you are crazy! :p

Ballbuster
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:48 PM
yeah, I'm one of those trailer trash whites.

at least you can admit it.

Let's try getting ys to admit it too.

DunkMachine
Oct 15th, 2003, 11:20 PM
at least you can admit it.

Let's try getting ys to admit it too.

Lol I'll rep you for thatone. :lol: :lol:

Car Key Boi
Oct 15th, 2003, 11:32 PM
and I really don't get the whole 'she's doing it for money' defense. if that was the case, she would have just done a civil trial that would have been thrown out due to lack of evidence.

if Kobe is convicted, she WILL file a civil suit and it's gonna be for mils, That is a FTS



do you really think someone would go through all this drama for a check?


absolutely. Not everyone, but for sure there are plenty of wimmin out there (and guys) who would lie, cheat and go through an ordeal like that, if they thought there was a million dollar paycheck at the end of it. That's another FTS

surely, there are easier ways to earn money nowadays

yup, marriage to a rich guy/gurl :D

harloo
Oct 15th, 2003, 11:55 PM
Face it, Kobe is going down regardless if this girl lied or not. If Kobe wanted to mess with a white girl he should of went to Vegas and picked him up a call girl. But no! He went to the backwoods and messed with a young girl. The citizens of this town have a small town mentality and the parents have a problem with black guys messing with their white daughters. It's the truth because I have seen it unfold before. I use to live in a small town, and I know the mentality of these people.

Did anyone hear about the stranglation charges the prosecution is presenting? This case is getting dirty.

Kobe will most likely lose his contracts because they can't sell him as the wholesome upstanding guy anymore. What a shame. He had to mess his career up.

Also, I think their is a case for resonable doubt now but I don't think that will matter. The jury will probably not hear this evidence, and since the case was not moved I expect Kobe to be convicted.

DunkMachine
Oct 15th, 2003, 11:55 PM
I can't help but NOT feel sorry for this girl. I know it's a bit rough, but still. This alleged rape could have been so easily avoided. If she were attacked in an alley or otherwise caught completely by surprise I could feel sorry for her. But in this situation..... no.

What woman in her right mind would go to a 200 pound 6'5" foot guy his hotelroom (a guy whom she hardly knows btw.) in the middle of the night. If it were a woman from fuckin' Honduras or whatever she would know to stay the hell away. Shit I wouldn't go and I'm 6'8". Some of the ladies here have to admit that (if this were a rape) that is just asking for trouble. There's just some things you just don't do in order to keep yourself safe. You don't walk around with a full wallet in your hand. And you don't accept a strangers invitation to his hotelroom to go watch bugs bunny at midnight.

Still I strongly believe that this woman staged the whole thing to get paid. I think she went to his room fully aware of his intentions. They had sex and she claimed it was rape.

But thats just my assumption and I also mite be a bit of an asshole for thinking this.

Sue me :cool:

*JR*
Oct 16th, 2003, 12:21 AM
Brianna and anyone else who doesn't like my NOT being as certain about everything in advance as you are, that's too damn bad. I will continue to look @ all possible explanations for things whether (some) others prefer instant opinions or not. So when your Westside Whatever can say that "this board=owned" (by it), then you can "vote me off the island". Until then, please take your "gag order" and (never mind)! :rolleyes:

kiwifan
Oct 16th, 2003, 02:18 AM
Brianna and anyone else who doesn't like my NOT being as certain about everything in advance as you are, that's too damn bad. I will continue to look @ all possible explanations for things whether (some) others prefer instant opinions or not. So when your Westside Whatever can say that "this board=owned" (by it), then you can "vote me off the island". Until then, please take your "gag order" and (never mind)! :rolleyes:

Cheers - :cool:

Cariaoke
Oct 16th, 2003, 02:28 AM
I can't help but NOT feel sorry for this girl. I know it's a bit rough, but still. This alleged rape could have been so easily avoided. If she were attacked in an alley or otherwise caught completely by surprise I could feel sorry for her. But in this situation..... no.

What woman in her right mind would go to a 200 pound 6'5" foot guy his hotelroom (a guy whom she hardly knows btw.) in the middle of the night. If it were a woman from fuckin' Honduras or whatever she would know to stay the hell away. Shit I wouldn't go and I'm 6'8". Some of the ladies here have to admit that (if this were a rape) that is just asking for trouble. There's just some things you just don't do in order to keep yourself safe. You don't walk around with a full wallet in your hand. And you don't accept a strangers invitation to his hotelroom to go watch bugs bunny at midnight.

Still I strongly believe that this woman staged the whole thing to get paid. I think she went to his room fully aware of his intentions. They had sex and she claimed it was rape.

But thats just my assumption and I also mite be a bit of an asshole for thinking this.

Sue me :cool:

it's attitudes like this that make men think it's ok to force a woman. after all, it's a woman's responsiblity to control and satisfy a man's urges/compulsion for power. we must not dare turn a man on without finishing the job. the man's needs always come first. :tape:

I wasn't aware there was a time limit on rape, either. If the world were to pass a law... it would be quite comical...

'we, the citizens of the world, proclaim that the offense of rape shall only be considered a crime between the hours of 6 AM and 8 AM. outside of those time periods, forcing a woman or man to engage in sexual acts is hereby deemed legal. this would also apply to children.'

Adults, after all, are not the only ones raped.

as far as the whole 'she knows what she's getting into' pathetically weak argument, let me give a real world example. I'm black. Say I'm out walking around my town, which is redneck-infested, around 10 P.M. at night. You don't know why I'm walking out at night. A car full of rednecks drive past and backup when they see me. I hear the n word coupled with a few choice words such as 'c*nt', 'bitch', etc. They stop the car and attempt to physically assault me. I run as fast as I can and make it to the gas station's pay phone to dial 911. What if the operator asked me 'well, what were you doing out that late at night, walking by the road? you know this area isn't good for your kind.' Well, gee, I thought this was the land of the free and I could walk or be wherever the hell I pleased at whatever time of day I wanted. I didn't know by simply being in a place, area of town or hotel room justified crime. I'm sure if I was physically attacked and robbed, I would get sympathy for this 'hate crime'. But if those rednecks raped me, MY MORALS would come into question. Their defense would go into MY SEXUAL HISTORY. If this was a few years ago, WHAT I WAS WEARING WOULD COME INTO PLAY. WHAT ABOUT THEIR MORALS? WHAT ABOUT WHAT THEY DID? Oh, well, you shouldn't have been out that late. What a crock of bullshit.

So, hmmm... if she knows her attacker, casually or otherwise, it's ok for her to be raped? What about fathers raping their daughters? 'Yanno, the way she wore her private school uniform really left Daddy no choice.' How about co-workers, a boss for example? 'She shouldn't have been bending over that file cabinent... what could he do?' The associations could go on forever!

And what about robbers who rape their victims, in their bedrooms... it happens... 'hey, if she was sleeping on her sofa, it wouldn't have been as convenient!' 'did she leave her window open? SHE ASKED FOR IT!' 'maybe next time she'll install ADT.'

Rape victims are automatically convicted in moral court due to their choices. They are possibly the only victims that are blamed for what happened to them. When someone is robbed at gun point, no one asks 'well why didn't you try to get the gun from them?' When someone is attacked with a knife... 'why didn't you move out of the way?' When someone's identity is stolen and they incur a huge amount of debt and they only find out by checking their credit report... 'why didn't you check your credit report, sooner?' You never get these type of questions with those incidents. It is assumed by society that men have no compulsion to rape. Men may cheat, steal, lie, even murder but they will never rape a woman without a proper excuse. They are either tempted (it's late at night, she was wearing a short skirt, she got drunk and therefore got what she deserved... etc.) or she led him on to believe he was getting some and then changed her mind when he got an erection even if rape has nothing to do with sex. It's a total power thing.

The sad thing is is that it's ok to project these views on rape victims. Not only is the victim raped by the initial act, she has to relive that rape in court... if her name is published, which is against the law due to the public SHAME that is placed upon these victims, she's 'raped' again by the court of public opinion (she must have enticed him someway)... if people know her personally, I'm sure she'll be 'raped' by them sometime in the future. Rape/incest/molestation are crimes that never truly 'go away' over time. You have friendly societal reminders that you're somehow bad or deserved what you got.

All of this bullshit only absolves the true perpetrator in the crime committed... the rapist. If I was a man, I'd be insulted if people thought I could only think with what's between my legs. That I lacked self-control and immediately became mindless when I was able to get it up. But if it could get me off doing some serious jail time, dawg, I'll play dumb. I'ma play it cool since I've got a built-in excuse! *pops collar* Shoot, I wish I had these male benefits! Now if only they did that with other crimes... like robbing a bank! 'they shouldn't have had the vault open!' Close but no cigar.

Did anyone happen to pick up on the fact that she was a hotel employee? Guess not... after all she's just some random hoochie at some exclusive resort and happened to know Kobe's every move... she even knew what time he was getting knee surgery. Those gold diggers are so resourceful these days!

And my last point, even if she slept with as many men as she could the night before or after; if Kobe raped her, he's still wrong. He's already admitted to adultery so this whole 'no dna evidence' thing is irrelevant unless the evidence submitted was claimed to be the semen of Kobe and it's not.

In case you didn't know and I question the intelligence of most people on the board nowadays... vaginal tears can occur during normal consensual sex. On Friday, his attorney stated that the alleged victim had sex the day before, possibly explaining the tears. Rape can occur without vaginal tears so that argument holds as much water as a bottle cap. He, I've been so graphic all day but I'm blunt, engaged in some sexual contact with this woman. We just need to know if it was with consent or not. The evidence presented thus far doesn't prove either ocurred.

In a simple phrase, Kobe fucked up his life. Even if he's acquitted, he made a choice to cheat on his wife and jeopardize his future. All the $4 million purple diamond rings in the world can't buy back his credibility. He will forever be tied to this case.

For sure, athletes are targets... people can sue them for a variety of reasons and blah blah blah but their rise or fall can come down to one simple decision. Kobe didn't make the right one.

*JR*
Oct 16th, 2003, 03:34 AM
Cari, you make some very good points, though I still want to wait till each side gets to seriously challenge the other's evidence in this (or any) case B4 reaching conclusions. So as I sign off, just one minor quibble that we can pick up another time: as you stated, she was an employee of the hotel; HOWEVER if she went to his room on any kind of assignment (like a delivery or something) we'd have heard that; instead it seems agreed that she WASN'T there on hotel business. 2B continued.... ;)

kiwifan
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:46 AM
Cari, how's the altitude up there on that high horse of yours?

Guess what? Half of your rant is completely wrong (give you a hint: the part where no one deserves to be a victim of a crime is the correct half).

When it comes to violent crimes of all sorts reasonable people are expected to take precautions.

You are allowed to leave your life's savings lying out in your front yard, but if you wake up in the morning and its gone, no one feels sympathy for you. You were the fool who set yourself up for a larceny. Of course what happened to the person is wrong but it is fair to look into behavior and what steps can be taken to prevent the situation from occuring again.

Now on to Kobe. Understand this, because this is all that actually matters in court...

"mens rea" - The state of mind of the actor (Kobe in this case) at the time of the commission of the alleged offense is paramount in determining his criminal liability.

When you accuse anyone of a crime, their perception not the victims perception matters in court. Rape is not special in this instance, only the "sacred cow" of criminal acts.

Yes a woman can be raped laying out buck naked at an orgy, but I would hate to have to prove, without witnesses or signs of struggle present, that the guy who had sex with a buck naked woman hanging out at an orgy was a rapist.

The prosecution has to show that Kobe knew he was raping this girl, not that this girl believes she was raped.

She says she said "no", he says she didn't = reasonable doubt. Kobe's back shooting hoops, end of story.

This is where evidence comes in. Physical injury? Prove he did it. If she slept with men before and after the alleged rape then she can't prove Kobe caused her physical injury via sex. This isn't woman bashing or patriarchal bullshit, this is simple logic. If she alleged that Kobe punched her in the face yet got punched in the face by someone else before and after she met Kobe, she would have a hard time using evidence of a bruise to the face to prove that Kobe punched her in the face.

Now where most "witness lacking" rape cases go "wrong" (from a NOW viewpoint) is when the prosecution or the woman or someone representing the women proclaims. "Of course she's telling the truth, she has no reason to lie." Now understand this has nothing to do with her gender but when you make a "character" statement then automatically your character is legally subject to question. The defense has the right to prove that she does have "reason to lie". Even as simple a statement as "she's an All American girl who never got in any trouble" is, in court, enough to demand (not permit, but demand on pain of a mistrial or overturn on appeal) that any evidence of "trouble" be entered into the record. If this hotel employee is in the habit of sleeping with other NBA players when they are in town, it is admissible evidence if it goes to Kobe's mens rea with respect to consentual sex with "an NBA Groupie"; if she has suicide attempts in her recent past, it can go to her credibility because as harsh as it may seem unsuccessful suicide attempts are often seen as "cries for attention" as would a false rape charge against a major celebrity.

Now as far as what time a woman goes to a man's hotel room or what she's wearing. It doesn't make her "deserve to be raped"; that is not the issue. What is the issue is that if a man is bringing a willing (not dragged up against her will) female stranger up to his hotel room, in the evening, it is reasonable to a jury that he was bringing her up there to have sex and what's reasonable to a jury will be the standard to which the accuser is held. Kobe's mens rea was an intent to have sex, that's why she was in his room from his perspective. Now to counter this reasonable reality she has to show why Kobe knew she didn't want to have sex with him.

I hope you're getting my point here. The legal defense team is doing nothing wrong and would be doing nothing wrong if they went as far as to bring in the guys she had sex with before and after Kobe and describe in specific detail the sex they had with her.

If she presents evidence the defense is entitled to counter it in the most graphic of manners.

This is not because the law hates women, its because Kobe is presumed innocent and her word is not the determining factor. No accuser's word is the determining factor.

The reality is actually a little harsher than I laid out above. But there is no injustice being done to this woman, yet...

Understand that the most difficult factor is the crime of rape is that "sex" between to people of legal age is not a crime. When you steal you can't say, "but I didn't know he disapproved of my taking all of his money and spending it on myself". When it comes to sex you can say, "I didn't know she didn't want me to have sex with her" and then present the laundry list of factors that lead to the misunderstanding (but only if the alleged victim brings it up first as proof that Kobe "should have known" she didn't want to have sex with her).

None of us know what happened between them but if she can go public with an accusation, the accusation can be countered with all the advocacy (sp) the law will allow. Rape is a dirty stigma inducing accusation that Kobe will never truly shake no matter what the result is. Both sides are dragged through the mud.

Kobe's "mens rea" not her "virtue" is on trail.

Just as short skirts don't make you deserve to be raped, infidelity doesn't make you a rapist.

"He said she said?", he wins.

She has to present more and he has the right to crush her testimony on the stand. Her "virtue" is collateral damage.

End of story.

Final advice to women, in a situation where you've said no and the man doesn't stop. If he doesn't have a weapon, you have to scratch is face hard enough to draw blood. Either his face gets bloody or he has to use enough force to leave proof of force of a nature inconsistent with sexual intercourse in order to prevent you from scratching his face. Also a scratched face looks pretty good in evidence photos even years after the actual crime was committed. That eliminates all "shades of grey" in sexual relations.

Cheers - :cool:

King Satan
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:49 AM
oh my goodness! what on God's grey board happened here? :eek:

bri, you were so close to getting your mouth washed with soap! :fiery: you must be having a tough time at work :hug:

jojoseph
Oct 16th, 2003, 06:29 AM
cari, you give a great sermon on how she is the victim. However, Kobe is innocent until proven guilty. One thing you don't want to happen, is if you believe he is guilty, before there being evidence proving so, and then finding out that he is innocent. If there is evidence proving he did it, then obviously believe he did it, is based on good sound judgement. Even if Kobe is found innocent, he still may have done it, because his attorney may be able to get him off with a technicality so you have to really assess the evidence yourself to be able to get a good idea of what you really feel about him. While I would sympathize with a rape victim, it's their job to prove that Kobe is guilty. You may feel that I'm biased for Kobe, but that's the way I believe it should be. At this time, the most damning evidence for the prosecution is that she told Winters originally that she didn't say no, then turned around and said she did later. Then Winters stated that there were no marks at all on her neck, even though she says he violently choked him. Also, the more key evidence is how she was acting after the alleged rape and one guy at the hotel has stated that she was not at all acting unusual. I would have thought that she would have cried or something, but maybe not. People talk about how her past sexual history should not be brung up, however a lot of that has to do with her credibility. Yes, if she says no, she says no, but taken as a whole with other abundance of evidence that suggests that she is not telling the truth, then it may very well be that she is lying. Now, I'm not talking about her entire sexual past, however stuff like how many guys she had been sleeping with of late, should be admissible because there could be a chance that one of the other guys could have caused some of the injuries she claims to have been done by Kobe. That has to be taken into consideration. Even though I'd like not to think so, I'm sure there are girls that may make something like this up just to get attention and money. While I'm not suggesting that she is, there is a chance, as far off as it may seem.

DunkMachine
Oct 16th, 2003, 10:02 AM
Kiwifan, bless her infinite wisdom, explained my point better than I could. As a reasonable individual one allways takes certain precautions.
Cariosity your morals or the morals of others will not keep you safe from the moonshine drinking rednecks of the world. You should know better as a woman to walk around alone at night.

Ofcourse you should be able to walk by a country road late at night wearing a sexy dress but that doesn't mean that you should. You should be able to do so being bucknaked but that wouldn't make it a good fucking idea.

Come on Cari don't twist my words please. I do not condone rape or other crimes in any situation. I do however question the amount of precautions a victim took when the crime occured. I feel that most crimes could have been avoided if one used common sense alone.

Cari just because I question a rape victim doesn't make me pro-rape. Gimme a little more credit please :kiss:

Thanks

Cariaoke
Oct 16th, 2003, 01:09 PM
ROFLMAO! My 'high horse'...

I was speaking for ALL RAPE VICTIMS and not just the ALLEGED one in this case. I thought that was pretty clear but yet again, I give people too much credit. :tape:

Don't lie, even before the 'facts' came out about this case, your first thought was 'she's a gold digger' or 'she's lying'. You cannot deny that when a woman is allegedly raped, the general consensus is that she did something to deserve it.

Of course... morals won't save you in the world. That wasn't the point. The point was the STIGMA associated with someone that accuses someone of raping them.

And in a previous post, I said I didn't think Kobe was guilty or innocent, yet. I need more facts to make a more intelligent decision for myself.

I don't think we'll EVER know what truly happened.

My general and more broad point, if some of you could look BEYOND THE KOBE CASE... the initial reaction that a woman gets, when she's allegedly raped, from the public (not her friends or family) is that she didn't do something on her end to ensure her not being raped. An attitude such as this allows #1: rapes to not be reported and #2 men feeling entitled.

I'd like to give a big 'DUH' to all that kiwifan posted. Of course common sense comes into play. I'm talking SOCIALLY and not JUDICIALLY. When did ANY OF MY POST focus on legalities, other than the vaginal tears thing? I think SOCIALLY... (if I wasn't a history major, I'd totally be a sociologist) which means I like to study how society treats and acts towards a particular situation. NONE OF THIS WILL HAVE ANY BEARING ON THE OUTCOME OF THIS CASE. Double 'duh'. I JUST FOUND IT PARTICULARLY INTERESTING HOW PEOPLE IMMEDIATELY THOUGHT HE WAS INNOCENT DO TO HIS STATUS EVEN BEFORE THE FACTS CAME OUT. Which, AGAIN IS FROM A SOCIAL STANDPOINT CUZ I OBVIOUSLY HAVE TO REMIND PEOPLE (short attention spans, I guess...) a man has no reason to rape a woman without a good reason, especially if he makes millions a year. THAT IS THE POINT! And how you missed that, I don't know.

In this thread, a lot of people were taking Kobe's side and when one lone person decides to tell the story from the ALLEGED victim's perspective and goes into this from 'it's an issue' stand point, suddenly they're on a high horse. If it be's that way, I got my saddle. I look damn sexy in a stetson. :cool:

gentenaire
Oct 16th, 2003, 01:34 PM
I agree with both kiwifan and cari. In this particular case, now that we know more, it seems likely it wasn't rape. But Cari is right when she says that quite a few were convinced she was a gold digger from the start, without knowing anything at all, simply because she's white. And no woman deserves to be raped, whether she had sex with a hundred men before the rape or not.

*JR*
Oct 16th, 2003, 01:49 PM
Cari, there's a point Kiwi made (specific to this case) that you should consider. The one about NBA groupies (whether the accuser was one or not remaining "TBD" I guess). Meaning that celebrity men can be raped in a different way; financially, publicly humiliated, etc. Does he deserve that more than your local "Joe Adulterer"? :confused: That's why (as you did also say), I want 2C the case argued, not prejudged. (Whether Brianna likes "maybe this, maybe that" posts or not). :rolleyes: Kiwi, one point, specifically re. the face scratching advice: it COULD (sorry for a word that drives your 2 fellow Westies crazy :eek: ) get A WOMAN killed in A CASE, so it MAY or MAY NOT be wise given the circumstances. ;)

Cariaoke
Oct 16th, 2003, 01:51 PM
Cari, there's a point Kiwi made (specific to this case) that you should consider. The one about NBA groupies (whether the accuser was one or not remaining "TBD" I guess). Meaning that celebrity men can be raped in a different way; financially, publicly humiliated, etc. Does he deserve that more than your local "Joe Adulterer"? :confused: That's why (as you did also say), I want 2C the case argued, not prejudged. (Whether Brianna likes "maybe this, maybe that" posts or not). :rolleyes: Kiwi, one point, specifically re. the face scratching advice: it COULD (sorry for a word that drives your 2 fellow Westies crazy :eek: ) get A WOMAN killed in A CASE, so it MAY or MAY NOT be wise given the circumstances. ;)
ok, this proves that no one reads my entire posts...

For sure, athletes are targets... people can sue them for a variety of reasons and blah blah blah but their rise or fall can come down to one simple decision. Kobe didn't make the right one.

page two, last post. thanks.

so, just in case you didn't get my point through that highly simplified quote since the paragraphs before that made me want to get more concise towards the end... KOBE KNEW NBA PLAYERS AND OTHER ATHLETES WERE TARGETS! THE NBA EVEN HAS WORKSHOPS THAT ROOKIES ATTEND TO DEAL WITH LIFE IN THE LIMELIGHT AND ALL THE PITFALLS. That doesn't change the fact that he made a decision to have sex with someone and/or rape them. If he's innocent, he thought he'd get some real quick on the low and no one would ever know and oh yeah, 'I'm a celebrity and I'm entitled.' If he's guilty, he thought he could do whatever the hell he wanted because he's a celebrity.

Kobe's an athlete, in the public eye.. if he's truly innocent, I'm sorry that he's gotten... err 'caught up' but him getting 'caught up' is his own fault. No one seems to be laying any blame on him, guilty or not.

kiwifan
Oct 16th, 2003, 03:28 PM
Well, Cari you seem to be the only one giving the actual law a big "DUH" in this thread. :p I assure you the DUH part is the good stuff. :devil: You act as though everyone is cheering for Rapists and you are all alone; the only anti-rape voice on the board.

What-eva. :rolleyes:

I'm just droppin' a little reality into the ranting, that's all. :angel: :angel: :angel:

You're fully entitled to "Cari-on" now. ;)

Dunkmachine, wh8ile I don't key cars, I am a BOI. :lol:

And with that final note, I'm off to make some entertainment "magic" at the studio. :D

Cheers - :cool:

Cariaoke
Oct 16th, 2003, 03:34 PM
^ I called a spade, a spade.

You all seem to be cheering for this alleged rapist. *shrug*

And REALITY is what I posted. It happens everyday, in fact, it's happening right now. Oh, it's happening again. Was that another six seconds that went by... oops it happened again. I think you get my point.

I'm off to enjoy my mass communications class. I like being educated. :)

and it's intelligent, by the way. :p

kiwifan
Oct 16th, 2003, 03:56 PM
I changed it before your post, but WTAworld has never been worthy of spell check or proof reading :devil:

I'm secure in my "intellegence" :p

Ballbuster
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:00 PM
Carosity you need to leave this thread with all that nonsense.

Thanks Kiwi for your enlightenment.

I seen Johnny Cochran on GMA this morning - he says he believes Kobe will be acquitted by a landslide.

Ballbuster
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:08 PM
the defense team was reasonably sure of this within 72 hours of the charges. still...getting to the bottom of this is going to be very interesting to observe.


I'm sadden by it. Kobe is a rather honorable person. He's not a thug, and he has kept his nose clean for the most part. If something like this happened to a Allen Iverson, I could understand the madness surrounding it.

Unfortunately, I believe this is good for America, and for the future WEALTHY Black Ballers.

gentenaire
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:11 PM
I wouldn't call anyone cheating on his wife (of how long? With a baby of how old?) honorable.

Ballbuster
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:14 PM
I wouldn't call anyone cheating on his wife (of how long? With a baby of how old?) honorable.


:rolleyes: You are without man are you? and you will probably continue to be without man, and when you get one he will probably cheat.

....or have this already happend to you?

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:19 PM
:rolleyes: You are without man are you? and you will probably continue to be without man, and when you get one he will probably cheat.

....or have this already happend to you?
why do you say that...I'm with my girlfriend since more than 5 years and I never cheated on her, never even felt the slightest urge to do so.....
and I believe it IS quite essential in a relationship.....

SJW
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:19 PM
it has always amazed me how males NEVER seem to sympathise with rape victims in the same way as women. i guess because they RARELY experience it they don't know what it's like. just like whites don't really understand why we play the "race card". i'm talking in general here and regardless of whether Bryant raped this girl or not...this statement:

I can't help but NOT feel sorry for this girl. I know it's a bit rough, but still. This alleged rape could have been so easily avoided. If she were attacked in an alley or otherwise caught completely by surprise I could feel sorry for her.

surprises me but i guess it shouldn't. so would you not feel sorry for a girl raped by her boyfriend or a woman raped by her husband because they know the person and thus REALLY should know what they're getting themselves into? just because they aren't in an alley at night, they deserve no sympathy? just because they're not attacked by strangers, it's not really rape? those aren't your words Dunk i know but i'm really interested in what you mean.

i guess the only way you guys will change your mind is if someone close to you has to go through this supposed ordeal. and then you will know why women are so sensitive about the subject ;)

i'm not passing judgement on Kobe, but these opinions seriously disgust me.

that's all

Ballbuster
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:21 PM
why do you say that...I'm with my girlfriend since more than 5 years and I never cheated on her, never even felt the slightest urge to do so.....
and I believe it IS quite essential in a relationship.....

Why are you addressing me. I wasn't talking to you.

Don't you think its time for you to ask the poor girl for her hand in marriage, if not get out the way and let another man love her.

Ballbuster
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:22 PM
well jeff dahmer wasn't a thug either ....:) crime has no real face.


what do that have to do with anything. You talking about a White Serial Killer who ate Black male prostitutes. Where is your logic :rolleyes:

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:23 PM
Why are you addressing me. I wasn't talking to you.

Don't you think its time for you to ask the poor girl for her hand in marriage, if not get out the way and let another man love her.
I already did....
I was reacting because you were attacking Tine viciously.....

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:25 PM
perhaps because you're in a great relationship and...you're a good man, rand. unfortunately, this is not the case with the masses.
thx DD :) but it's really something that I don't get....ifyour relationship isn't good you can always walk out of it don't you? I don't think a bad relationship is an excuse....

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:28 PM
no. a bad relationship is never an excuse. an 'honorable' man, as some people are likely to say, would simply end the relationship before carrying on with the next.
my thought exactly :)

Ballbuster
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:32 PM
here's the logic.

you said he was honorable....honor is a lifestyle. one that doesn't include adultery, especially if one is a professed xtian. so...many would refute your claim.

you said he wasn't a thug....which means that for the most part, only thugs are allowed to be dissected for criminal investigations when in fact even people like dahmer (who was as far from looking like a thug as anyone) are seen as beyond heinous.

buster... don't roll your eyes when you're not sure what the complete logic is. ask instead and someone will explain to you as if you were a five year old, ok?

You are becoming annoying. You post for the sake of posting. You could of kept the above. k.

besides, what you talking about isn't is relation to the thread and again
you have derailed another thread. Why don't you rename yourself

:topic:

its most befitting for you.

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:35 PM
this board IS off topic isn't it? :confused:

gentenaire
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:36 PM
:rolleyes: You are without man are you? and you will probably continue to be without man, and when you get one he will probably cheat.

....or have this already happend to you?

and based on this message I say you must like the colour green, never got good grades in high school, your first girlfriend ran away with another girl, you spent 6 months in gaol, you have acne problems and a lisp...

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:38 PM
and based on this message I say you must like the colour green, never got good grades in high school, your first girlfriend ran away with another girl, you spent 6 months in gaol, you have acne problems and a lisp...
:lol:

Ballbuster
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:47 PM
and based on this message I say you must like the colour green, never got good grades in high school, your first girlfriend ran away with another girl, you spent 6 months in gaol, you have acne problems and a lisp...

aren't those your features????

I seen your pictures in that chat thread and I must say you look rather mousy....you are not the looker. Drop 30 lbs, get a face lift and a boob job and you just may have a shot.

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:49 PM
aren't those your features????

I seen your pictures in that chat thread and I must say you look rather mousy....you are not the looker. Drop 30 lbs, get a face lift and a boob job and you just may have a shot.
isn't this enough for a ban on this board? :confused:

Ballbuster
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:49 PM
you see, tine? this is one of the reasons why i absolutely refuse to see eye to eye with you on most issues....

after all of that, you forget to add that his first girlfriend ran off with a girl who was white trash!!! please refrain from offering up incomplete descriptions. ;) :p


why don't you give her the proper description of me, since you know.

Ballbuster
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:59 PM
hey, if all the talk about white trash wasn't.... :mad:


If the shoe fits, wear it.

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:59 PM
hey, if all the talk about white trash wasn't.... :mad:
which one?
no but really it means someone can simply offend you beyond any norm of decency (especially since Tine's pictures aren't bad at all!) without any consequences? I mean this was just childish name-calling.... :rolleyes:

Ballbuster
Oct 16th, 2003, 05:01 PM
and based on this message I say you must like the colour green, never got good grades in high school, your first girlfriend ran away with another girl, you spent 6 months in gaol, you have acne problems and a lisp...


Naturally, you'd miss this wouldn't you! She deserved that retaliation. Besides, this is untrue. What I said was truth.

Ballbuster
Oct 16th, 2003, 05:04 PM
yeah, I'm one of those trailer trash whites.


I don't have to. If you take a look at the above post, she said it about herself.

Don't get it twisted. Besides, all you have to do is wait a poster out, eventually they will tell you some truth about themself.

I guess this is her truth. I believe her.

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 05:05 PM
Naturally, you'd miss this wouldn't you! She deserved that retaliation. Besides, this is untrue. What I said was truth.
actually hers was clearly a joking response on your "I bet you're alone and bla bla" hers was clearly stating that you were jumping to conclusions very fast, on base of one little post....but you started the name-calling....

Ballbuster
Oct 16th, 2003, 05:08 PM
Read my signature.


Enough of you boring people, I'm off the the hip hop boards where they are throwing down.

:wavey: Car Kei Boi :kiss:

harloo
Oct 16th, 2003, 06:29 PM
great analysis kiwifan. :)

It seems like most of us are reacting on emotions and not basing our opinions on the judicial process.

I find some people to be either pro-Kobe because they are a fan of the lakers, or pro-victim because she is this poor helpless young lady who was taken advantage of by an elite basketball star.

IMO, Kobe in innocent until proven guilty and as you stated the accuser must prove her case. Until then the public should refrain from assuming Kobe is a "rapist".

gentenaire
Oct 16th, 2003, 07:00 PM
Don't worry, knowing the source, I'm not worried about these attacks ;) Dropping 30 Lbs :lol: That would give me a BMI of 14.6!! Nope, ballbuster, you're not going to tempt me into anorexia (she says while eating loads of cheese, ham and sausage). It's not because you need plastic surgery to improve your self worth that I do too.

King Satan
Oct 16th, 2003, 07:06 PM
Ballbuster is a dumbass! tine is freakin hott! :hearts:

griffin
Oct 16th, 2003, 07:12 PM
I find some people to be either pro-Kobe because they are a fan of the lakers, or pro-victim because she is this poor helpless young lady who was taken advantage of by an elite basketball star.


not to mention people reacting to supporters of either Kobe or the plaintiff...and I have to admit I've had a hard time separating my reactions to some of the people who are "pro-Kobe" (including his attorney) from Kobe himself. Kinda like getting po'd at a player because of some of her fans.


Innocent until proven guilty (which imo also goes for labeling the plaintiff a "slag" among other things)

kiwifan
Oct 16th, 2003, 07:22 PM
and the case IS being argued roger....here and where it counts. the face scratching advice to me is great. it provides evidence. and yes, you're right, it could get you killed. but i do believe that he specifically said, "unless he has a weapon".

:worship: :worship: :worship:

:angel: :cool: :angel:

:wavey:

kiwifan
Oct 16th, 2003, 07:26 PM
you sure about that counselor? :p

:smash: :smash: :smash:


:armed:


:devil:


:cool:

ys
Oct 16th, 2003, 07:48 PM
Ballbuster is a dumbass! tine is freakin hott! :hearts:

Was that you who said that? I thought it was me..

gentenaire
Oct 16th, 2003, 07:50 PM
Was that you who said that? I thought it was me..

Heehee, Ballbuster should insult me more often.

jojoseph
Oct 16th, 2003, 07:54 PM
it's attitudes like this that make men think it's ok to force a woman. after all, it's a woman's responsiblity to control and satisfy a man's urges/compulsion for power. we must not dare turn a man on without finishing the job. the man's needs always come first. :tape:

I wasn't aware there was a time limit on rape, either. If the world were to pass a law... it would be quite comical...

'we, the citizens of the world, proclaim that the offense of rape shall only be considered a crime between the hours of 6 AM and 8 AM. outside of those time periods, forcing a woman or man to engage in sexual acts is hereby deemed legal. this would also apply to children.'

Adults, after all, are not the only ones raped.

as far as the whole 'she knows what she's getting into' pathetically weak argument, let me give a real world example. I'm black. Say I'm out walking around my town, which is redneck-infested, around 10 P.M. at night. You don't know why I'm walking out at night. A car full of rednecks drive past and backup when they see me. I hear the n word coupled with a few choice words such as 'c*nt', 'bitch', etc. They stop the car and attempt to physically assault me. I run as fast as I can and make it to the gas station's pay phone to dial 911. What if the operator asked me 'well, what were you doing out that late at night, walking by the road? you know this area isn't good for your kind.' Well, gee, I thought this was the land of the free and I could walk or be wherever the hell I pleased at whatever time of day I wanted. I didn't know by simply being in a place, area of town or hotel room justified crime. I'm sure if I was physically attacked and robbed, I would get sympathy for this 'hate crime'. But if those rednecks raped me, MY MORALS would come into question. Their defense would go into MY SEXUAL HISTORY. If this was a few years ago, WHAT I WAS WEARING WOULD COME INTO PLAY. WHAT ABOUT THEIR MORALS? WHAT ABOUT WHAT THEY DID? Oh, well, you shouldn't have been out that late. What a crock of bullshit.

So, hmmm... if she knows her attacker, casually or otherwise, it's ok for her to be raped? What about fathers raping their daughters? 'Yanno, the way she wore her private school uniform really left Daddy no choice.' How about co-workers, a boss for example? 'She shouldn't have been bending over that file cabinent... what could he do?' The associations could go on forever!

And what about robbers who rape their victims, in their bedrooms... it happens... 'hey, if she was sleeping on her sofa, it wouldn't have been as convenient!' 'did she leave her window open? SHE ASKED FOR IT!' 'maybe next time she'll install ADT.'

Rape victims are automatically convicted in moral court due to their choices. They are possibly the only victims that are blamed for what happened to them. When someone is robbed at gun point, no one asks 'well why didn't you try to get the gun from them?' When someone is attacked with a knife... 'why didn't you move out of the way?' When someone's identity is stolen and they incur a huge amount of debt and they only find out by checking their credit report... 'why didn't you check your credit report, sooner?' You never get these type of questions with those incidents. It is assumed by society that men have no compulsion to rape. Men may cheat, steal, lie, even murder but they will never rape a woman without a proper excuse. They are either tempted (it's late at night, she was wearing a short skirt, she got drunk and therefore got what she deserved... etc.) or she led him on to believe he was getting some and then changed her mind when he got an erection even if rape has nothing to do with sex. It's a total power thing.

The sad thing is is that it's ok to project these views on rape victims. Not only is the victim raped by the initial act, she has to relive that rape in court... if her name is published, which is against the law due to the public SHAME that is placed upon these victims, she's 'raped' again by the court of public opinion (she must have enticed him someway)... if people know her personally, I'm sure she'll be 'raped' by them sometime in the future. Rape/incest/molestation are crimes that never truly 'go away' over time. You have friendly societal reminders that you're somehow bad or deserved what you got.

All of this bullshit only absolves the true perpetrator in the crime committed... the rapist. If I was a man, I'd be insulted if people thought I could only think with what's between my legs. That I lacked self-control and immediately became mindless when I was able to get it up. But if it could get me off doing some serious jail time, dawg, I'll play dumb. I'ma play it cool since I've got a built-in excuse! *pops collar* Shoot, I wish I had these male benefits! Now if only they did that with other crimes... like robbing a bank! 'they shouldn't have had the vault open!' Close but no cigar.

Did anyone happen to pick up on the fact that she was a hotel employee? Guess not... after all she's just some random hoochie at some exclusive resort and happened to know Kobe's every move... she even knew what time he was getting knee surgery. Those gold diggers are so resourceful these days!

And my last point, even if she slept with as many men as she could the night before or after; if Kobe raped her, he's still wrong. He's already admitted to adultery so this whole 'no dna evidence' thing is irrelevant unless the evidence submitted was claimed to be the semen of Kobe and it's not.

In case you didn't know and I question the intelligence of most people on the board nowadays... vaginal tears can occur during normal consensual sex. On Friday, his attorney stated that the alleged victim had sex the day before, possibly explaining the tears. Rape can occur without vaginal tears so that argument holds as much water as a bottle cap. He, I've been so graphic all day but I'm blunt, engaged in some sexual contact with this woman. We just need to know if it was with consent or not. The evidence presented thus far doesn't prove either ocurred.

In a simple phrase, Kobe fucked up his life. Even if he's acquitted, he made a choice to cheat on his wife and jeopardize his future. All the $4 million purple diamond rings in the world can't buy back his credibility. He will forever be tied to this case.

For sure, athletes are targets... people can sue them for a variety of reasons and blah blah blah but their rise or fall can come down to one simple decision. Kobe didn't make the right one.

Cari, your entire post focuses on 1) that she is the victim and 2) that Kobe's defense team is in the wrong and 3) that there doesn't appear to be any evidence that suggests that Kobe is innocent.

Yes, you can say that you don't know what to think about whether or not he's innocent all you want in previous posts, but it's your actions and comments that do the real talking.

Furthermore, majoring in sociology and making broad generalizations may be just fine when focusing on society as a whole, but when it comes down to individual circumstances, you can't just include everyone in the same category, no matter what the situation. You have to look at each circumstance separately.

SJW
Oct 16th, 2003, 09:26 PM
Joy i've missed you coming on to me in the threads :tape: :p

how are ya girl? :):wavey:

decemberlove
Oct 16th, 2003, 09:41 PM
stay away from my girl, sjw!

I have nothing to lend to this discussion but that I hope Venus & Serena comes back just so ballbuster can take it's crap back to GM...maybe Poe or Griff got their hands on it first :rolleyes: .

I'm so not getting caught up in this case- I'll let the facts come out and go from there- I'm not a Kobe fan but he is innocent until proven guilty. And the only part of the alleged victim's past that should be in question is the night or 2 before this rape occurred.


joy, i feel the same way... about everything youve said. :kiss:

King Satan
Oct 17th, 2003, 12:56 AM
Hi bri :wavey::kiss:

King Satan
Oct 17th, 2003, 01:02 AM
hey joe, how are you? :) :wavey:
I'm good babe, i just finished scaring my lil cousin with the Texas Chainsaw Massacre :devil:

Hey everyone! Lakers vs Cavs, tonight! live from staples center! :bounce: