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apoet29
Oct 14th, 2003, 08:42 PM
Fat phobia study reveals weighty attitudes

Tuesday, October 14, 2003 Posted: 3:13 PM EDT (1913 GMT)

FORT LAUDERDALE, Florida (AP) -- While it is no surprise that people often have a low opinion of the overweight, a new study finds that just standing next to a large person can be bad for one's image.

The experiment, conducted in England, demonstrates the depths of stigmatization endured by heavy people: It even rubs off on their friends.

Trying to combat discrimination against the overweight is a topic of discussion at this week's meeting in Fort Lauderdale of the North American Association for the Study of Obesity, the field's top professional organization.

Even here, though, another study suggests that obesity specialists themselves may harbor subtle, if unintentional, negative attitudes toward their patients.

"Weight stigma is powerful, pervasive and destructive," said Marlene Schwartz, a Yale psychologist.

In the English study, psychologist Jason Halford and colleagues from the University of Liverpool tested 144 female students' reactions to two prom photos. One showed a dapper, thin young man standing next to a svelte ringlet-haired woman. The other was the same photo altered to show the guy arm-in-arm with a very large, nicely dressed woman.

The volunteers took a quick look at one or the other of the pictures and then were asked their opinion of the man. They rated him from 1 to 5 on 50 negative adjectives -- called the "fat phobia scale" -- that people often use to describe obese people.

The man with the big woman was rated 22 percent more negatively than the same man with the thin companion. When seen with the large woman, he was more likely to be described as miserable, self-indulgent, passive, shapeless, depressed, weak, insignificant and insecure.

"It shows that people project negative attitudes associated with obesity not only on the obese but all those who associate with them," Halford said.

The study also found that students who were themselves overweight were more likely than usual to rate the man harshly when pictured with the obese partner.

At the same obesity meeting two years ago, researchers give a word quiz, called an implicit association test, to about 200 obesity professionals. The test, intended to measure bias, asks people to quickly link up words like "lazy," "stupid" and "worthless" on command with obese or thin people.

The results, described at this year's meeting, showed that obesity professionals were more apt to link the negative words with overweight people, even when trying not to.

"These are unconscious attitudes," said Heather Chambliss of the Cooper Institute in Dallas.

Carol Johnson of Milwaukee, a large woman who heads a support organization called Largely Positive, told the conference that overweight people are often discriminated against by doctors, who ascribe all their problems to weight and sometimes withhold standard treatments, like blood pressure pills, that they freely prescribe to thin patients.

"Society wants no fatties," Johnson said.

Rebecca Puhl of Yale said bias against the large begins early in life. Studies show that even preschoolers are more likely to describe overweight playmates as mean, ugly or stupid.

She said overweight people are less likely to get into college, less likely to get hired and more likely to get fired.

"Expressing negative attitudes toward obese people has become an acceptable form of bias," she said.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 14th, 2003, 08:51 PM
Rebecca Puhl of Yale said bias against the large begins early in life. Studies show that even preschoolers are more likely to describe overweight playmates as mean, ugly or stupid.

This friend of mine from elementary school... she was BIG girl - the biggest in the school, easily. From Kindergarten she got taunted mercilessly... later on people claimed that they "hated" her because she was "a bitch"... yet they were totally unwilling to accept responsibility for the fact that she was "a bitch" due to the years of torment they had put her through.

I'm no innocent either... I'm sure there were times that I didn't want to hang out with her because of what everybody was saying, etc. I don't believe I ever tried to make myself feel superior to her just because I happened to luck out in the gene pool... but I suppose I have my parents to thank for that attitude. Though I'm sure at some unconscious level I may have had those feelings ...

Anyways.... interesting - though somewhat unfortunate, yet not surprising - study, apoet. Thanks for sharing it

apoet29
Oct 14th, 2003, 09:00 PM
My sister and brother are overweight and they have been through some terrible things because of that. Unfortunately, kids can be cruel to others, and as a result, everyone suffers. I am hoping that studies can force a shift in public opinion, but I am not holding my breath on that.

ys
Oct 14th, 2003, 09:08 PM
This phobia makes perfect sense. If, for instance, airlines would make passengers pay fat people double fare or in proportion of their own weight, I would be the one to applaud.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 14th, 2003, 09:12 PM
This phobia makes perfect sense. If, for instance, airlines would make passengers pay fat people double fare or in proportion of their own weight, I would be the one to applaud.
I do hope that you're just baiting here...

LostInThe80s
Oct 14th, 2003, 09:17 PM
i have nothing against obese people. my only wish is that they would exercise as much as they ate cos some of them looking terribly unhealthy.

apoet29
Oct 14th, 2003, 09:18 PM
This phobia makes perfect sense. If, for instance, airlines would make passengers pay fat people double fare or in proportion of their own weight, I would be the one to applaud.

Just when I was beginning to like you . . .

ys
Oct 14th, 2003, 09:19 PM
I do hope that you're just baiting here...

Well, Becca, very fat people are dsigusting visually. It's not politically correct to say that, but almost everyone thinks so, and it is not even about thinking, it is about feeling.

King Satan
Oct 14th, 2003, 09:20 PM
I've always been a big guy, even when i was a lil king satan. i never let ppl make fun of my weight, and when they did, a punch in the mouth is all it took to make them stop :)

Crazy Canuck
Oct 14th, 2003, 09:30 PM
Well, Becca, very fat people are dsigusting visually. It's not politically correct to say that, but almost everyone thinks so, and it is not even about thinking, it is about feeling.
"Fat" women used to be the ideal. I guess they weren't considered so visually digusting back in the day, huh? Of course you feel that way, as do most (and I'm not excluding myself, or trying to put myself on another level here... I'm no better than anybody else) in our culture... but if our culture was different we would view heavy people differently. Unfortunately you can't just roll out of bed and change the entire culture one day... trust me, if I could I would :p

ys
Oct 14th, 2003, 09:32 PM
"Fat" women used to be the ideal. I guess they weren't considered so visually digusting back in the day, huh? Of course you feel that way, as do most (and I'm not excluding myself, or trying to put myself on another level here... I'm no better than anybody else) in our culture... but if our culture was different we would view heavy people differently. Unfortunately you can't just roll out of bed and change the entire culture one day... trust me, if I could I would :p

It would be much easier to make them work out.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 14th, 2003, 09:37 PM
It would be much easier to make them work out.
I have friends who you would likely consider "fat" that are very physicall active.... but you're just baiting, so I refuse to seriously get into this with you :p

Crazy Canuck
Oct 14th, 2003, 09:42 PM
Were "fat" women really an ideal for the majority of men or is it just a myth?

I don't think very fat people are disgusting, however I would tend to think most people no matter the culture would prefer by far a normal body than a "very fat" one.
It's not a myth.... heavier women were considered to be more fertile, more likely to survive through harsh conditions, blah blah. Somebody else could give you the correct explanation, but that is the basic idea ;)

The idea of "normal body weight" is defined by your culture... for example, what is considered sexy now, was not considered sexy forever and a day ago. Somebody the size of Marilyn Monroe is hardly the "ideal" now, but she was quite something in her time...

King Satan
Oct 14th, 2003, 09:44 PM
I have friends who you would likely consider "fat" that are very physicall active.... but you're just baiting, so I refuse to seriously get into this with you :p
tha's the way i am. i play a lot of sports (always have) but i'm just a big guy. i mean, i'm not obese or anything....but i'm a chubby guy :) what can i do about it? nothing. that's just the way god made me.

I think girls with meat on them can be very sexy! ;)

Crazy Canuck
Oct 14th, 2003, 09:45 PM
tha's the way i am. i play a lot of sports (always have) but i'm just a big guy. i mean, i'm not obese or anything....but i'm a chubby guy :) what can i do about it? nothing. that's just the way god made me.

I think girls with meat on them can be very sexy! ;)
This summer when i started biking all the time (my only means of transportation to work), I lost a lot of my excess weight - it's worth noting I didn't have that much in the first place. Anyways... I actually miss most of it :p

gentenaire
Oct 14th, 2003, 09:46 PM
It's not a myth.... heavier women were considered to be more fertile, more likely to survive through harsh conditions, blah blah. Somebody else could give you the correct explanation, but that is the basic idea ;)

The idea of "normal body weight" is defined by your culture... for example, what is considered sexy now, was not considered sexy forever and a day ago. Somebody the size of Marilyn Monroe is hardly the "ideal" now, but she was quite something in her time...

That's very true. These days however, people with a BMI between 20 and 22 live the longest. The conditions aren't as harsh anymore.

If only the models of today had the size of Marilyn! Models have a BMI that makes them almost anorexic.

GBFH
Oct 14th, 2003, 11:47 PM
She said overweight people are less likely to get into college, less likely to get hired and more likely to get fired.

yeup, all true. i've seen tons of dateline stories about this...they secretly videotaped a male interviewer with two women: one, who was thin, and one who was fat and both had the same qualifications (in fact, I think the fat one had slightly better credentials) and he hired the skinny chick. i guess, aside from aesthetics, people figure that if you let your body get that way, your work will be substandard.

and about the preschooler stuff...I read years and years ago a research study in a teen magazine that said if little kids (preschoolers and kindergardener's) had to choose between missing a limb and being fat, nearly 90% of them chose the former. think about that, a little kid would rather be permanently handicapped than be so much as twenty pounds overweight. that's sick, and very very sad.

Cybelle Darkholme
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:11 AM
Ugh Fat. Yuck.

I am sorry but its not hard to ask these people to lose some weight!!! I mean how bad are these people being persecuted if there are so many freaking fat people still in the country??? Obviously they are not being treated harsh enough if we are the biggest most obsese nation in the known world. Ugh.

I swear we should drop off plane load of these fat greedy resource hogging balloon people into a third world nation so they can feed the starving. Canniablism gotta love it. I'm sure that woman from the practice could feed a small village.

DutchieGirl
Oct 15th, 2003, 03:26 AM
It would be much easier to make them work out.
Yes, because it's so easy fr fat people to feel inspired to work out when poeple like you put them down all the time! :rolleyes:

doloresc
Oct 15th, 2003, 11:52 AM
It's not a myth.... heavier women were considered to be more fertile, more likely to survive through harsh conditions, blah blah. Somebody else could give you the correct explanation, but that is the basic idea ;)

The idea of "normal body weight" is defined by your culture... for example, what is considered sexy now, was not considered sexy forever and a day ago. Somebody the size of Marilyn Monroe is hardly the "ideal" now, but she was quite something in her time...

I was born during marilyn monroe's heyday and it's true: being curvy and voluptuous was the norm, and was the epitome of female beauty. as we all know, it's quite a different story today.

as for obese people, the one thing i'm certain of is that if someone could transform them to thin with the snap of a finger, they would allow it to happen. when you see them out in public, you can occasionally see the shame on their faces, largely result of society's cruelty. i do think, though, that societal pressures aside, obese people would simply feel better (in every regard) being thinner, as opposed to the notion that they're perfectly comfortable with being obese.

rand
Oct 15th, 2003, 12:04 PM
I actually believe there's no problem with the looking bad at too fat people....
for most of them (there are exceptions I KNOW ...)they're fat by their own fault....living on a mcDonalds diet and diet coke? :rolleyes:
Ys's comment isn't as absurd as it seems when you see what I (weighing 60 kilo's) have to pay extra on the plane for a few extra ilo's baggage....they don't have to pay extra for their extra weight? :confused:
and they're bound to get physical problems due to their fatness...and who pays for that? us again.....
it's not like they can't do anything about it is it?

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 12:20 PM
I agree in a way with rand and ys. If obese people need two seets on a plane, they should pay for 2.

And rand's right about the weight on planes too. You have to pay so much extra for a little extra luggage.

apoet29
Oct 15th, 2003, 12:22 PM
It's nice to know that prejudice in all forms still exists on this board. I'm shocked to read that many people believe that it is that easy to lose weight. It is not, and that is the problems that obese people face. Not only can it be very difficult to lose the weight, but when you are constantly being made fun of, it is easy to lose yourself in food. Plus, many obese people are obese due to genetic or health issues.

I'm amazed really. People on this board will scream about racism or xenphobia, but when it comes to obesity, no one can find it in their hearts to have any sympathy.

doloresc
Oct 15th, 2003, 12:30 PM
It's nice to know that prejudice in all forms still exists on this board. I'm shocked to read that many people believe that it is that easy to lose weight. It is not, and that is the problems that obese people face. Not only can it be very difficult to lose the weight, but when you are constantly being made fun of, it is easy to lose yourself in food. Plus, many obese people are obese due to genetic or health issues.

I'm amazed really. People on this board will scream about racism or xenphobia, but when it comes to obesity, no one can find it in their hearts to have any sympathy.

apoet29, i'm only speaking for myself: i would be equally critical of people addicted to drugs, alcohol, gambling and anything else that ruins your life. the overconsumption food is "treatable" but the desire to lose weight has to be there. a colleague of mine lost 17 lbs this year. she said this was the first time she lost weight in her life (she's 42). how did she do it? she ate less and exercised more. i realize it's not easy to slim down but everyone can do it!

apoet29
Oct 15th, 2003, 12:36 PM
apoet29, i'm only speaking for myself: i would be equally critical of people addicted to drugs, alcohol, gambling and anything else that ruins your life. the overconsumption food is "treatable" but the desire to lose weight has to be there. a colleague of mine lost 17 lbs this year. she said this was the first time she lost weight in her life (she's 42). how did she do it? she ate less and exercised more. i realize it's not easy to slim down but everyone can do it!

I realize that obese people have to have the desire like anyone else, but I find it rather amazing that no one has sympathy for the prejudice these people face. Obese people receive the same prejudice as those who are racist, yet somehow I am reading that people feel that obese people have brought this upon themselves. Do African-Americans, Hispanics and any other group bring racism onto themselves? No, they do not, but they are on the receiving end of it anyway. It is the same for obese people.

I guess my point is that no one should have prejudice against anyone else because one has no idea what that person deals with on a daily basis. My sister has fought the weight battle for years and has done so with people laughing in her face. I've been there when she has come home crying from it. In addition, she suffers from severe asthma, so that makes losing weight difficult for her. Of course, the people who make fun of her don't know that nor do they care to learn because they cannot see past her weight to the great person inside.

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 12:37 PM
No, it's not easy to lose weight, but I must confess I've often wondered how on earth they managed to get that fat in the first place. I would have started seeing a doctor at half that weight!

And face, all the overweight people I know simply eat too much and eat the wrong things, and then they blame it on their metabolism. They say I'm lucky to have such a good metabolism... WRONG! If I was to eat as they do, I'd end up being just as fat.

I'm critical of smokers as well, of people who drink too much, etc. And giving up smoking isn't easy either.

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 12:38 PM
I wouldn't make fun of obese people, but I would be very strict.

doloresc
Oct 15th, 2003, 12:47 PM
I realize that obese people have to have the desire like anyone else, but I find it rather amazing that no one has sympathy for the prejudice these people face. Obese people receive the same prejudice as those who are racist, yet somehow I am reading that people feel that obese people have brought this upon themselves. Do African-Americans, Hispanics and any other group bring racism onto themselves? No, they do not, but they are on the receiving end of it anyway. It is the same for obese people.

I guess my point is that no one should have prejudice against anyone else because one has no idea what that person deals with on a daily basis. My sister has fought the weight battle for years and has done so with people laughing in her face. I've been there when she has come home crying from it. In addition, she suffers from severe asthma, so that makes losing weight difficult for her. Of course, the people who make fun of her don't know that nor do they care to learn because they cannot see past her weight to the great person inside.

apoet29, that's a point that many people who don't understand why others are vehemently vocal about sexism, xenophobia and racism, as examples, simply miss. judging someone based solely on their weight isn't any different from discriminating against someone because of their gender, nationality or race.

by the same token, it is quite possible to be critical of obese people yet still respect and love them. no one is saying that they don't deserve to be treated with the same respect as anyone else. personally, i just don't like people accepting things about themselves that they DO have control over. you had no control over your gender, where you were born and your race but your weight is solely your responsibility.

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 12:48 PM
apoet, this is serious question, not meant to accuse or anything. With your sister, was there never a time when you could all see she was already overweight, but not yet obese, yet still gaining weight, that you rang the alarm bell? Why wait in trying to lose weight until you're obese? Why let it get that far?

My mother is overweight, we all know why. She's been trying to lose weight, but doesn't have the character for it. But she's not gaining any more weight. She's not headed for obesity. When I spent some time at home, I gain weight. Mom's always scared there won't be enough food so there's always too much. We keep telling her.

rand
Oct 15th, 2003, 12:51 PM
No, it's not easy to lose weight, but I must confess I've often wondered how on earth they managed to get that fat in the first place. I would have started seeing a doctor at half that weight!

And face, all the overweight people I know simply eat too much and eat the wrong things, and then they blame it on their metabolism. They say I'm lucky to have such a good metabolism... WRONG! If I was to eat as they do, I'd end up being just as fat.

I'm critical of smokers as well, of people who drink too much, etc. And giving up smoking isn't easy either.
I completely agree...and no I wouldn't make fun of them either, but let's be serious......comparing that to racism? Da backhand has to be joking....
if you=fat it's your own fault(for most people, like I already said), if you're born black, or jew, or hispanic, or with red hair, or....whatever...the it's not your fault....
or would you say a heroin-addict needs just as much respect as anyone else? :confused: they should be helped yes...but then again, if they let it happen in the first place it's because they're weak....or they didn't care enough untill it was too late, well, face the consequences....

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 12:51 PM
by the same token, it is quite possible to be critical of obese people yet still respect and love them. no one is saying that they don't deserve to be treated with the same respect as anyone else. personally, i just don't like people accepting things about themselves that they DO have control over. you had no control over your gender, where you were born and your race but your weight is solely your responsibility.

exactly!

rand
Oct 15th, 2003, 12:57 PM
Joking about what?
about this
"The only standard of morality now is "am I racist or not?", nothing else"
do you mean that it's the same making fun of fat people as it is of making fun of someone based on race? if that is, it's an injure against anyone who has ever been a victim of racism....

rand
Oct 15th, 2003, 01:06 PM
Yes, it's exactly the same, but this isn't what I meant.

I was saying, it seems the only moral preoccupation people have now is not to be racist, and usually ignoring the many other forms of cruelty.
so you don't believe someone who's costing society much more for reasons that are solely of his/her free will should for example be put on the same level as anyone else for example by having to pay more for the overweight on the plane he/she causes? :confused:
because it's of these things we're alking about...no one on this board said "we should make fun of them" or anything...what we said is...they make/made a choice of not caring about anything until it was too late(well never too late, thay always can start a diet....)....so they should face the consequences of their CHOICE...you don't agree with that?

rand
Oct 15th, 2003, 01:09 PM
My only point was cruelty is cruelty, being mean to someone is wrong, it changes nothing if it's weight or race.
but what is cruelty?
is making them pay more to geton the plane cruelty?

rand
Oct 15th, 2003, 01:18 PM
It was just a general comment, I didn't comment on the plane thing or anything else specific, I don't have an opinion on that.
but how do you define cruelty then?what does your comment mean?

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 01:20 PM
but how do you define cruelty then?what does your comment mean?

gee, let's see....calling obese people disgusting and looking at them as if they're the most revolting sight on earth? yeah, i think those things qualify.

rand
Oct 15th, 2003, 01:29 PM
gee, let's see....calling obese people disgusting and looking at them as if they're the most revolting sight on earth? yeah, i think those things qualify.
which no one on this board did I think....

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 01:50 PM
which no one on this board did I think....

I actually believe there's no problem with the looking bad at too fat people....

.....right.

rand
Oct 15th, 2003, 01:55 PM
.....right.
which doen't imlpy I do it....like I say in ulterior posts.....

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:00 PM
which doen't imlpy I do it....like I say in ulterior posts.....

riiiiiiiight. but i'm guessing you don't go out of your way to be in any way considerate towards an obese person, either. neglect and alienation are just as hurtful as insults.

because it's of these things we're alking about...no one on this board said "we should make fun of them" or anything...what we said is...they make/made a choice of not caring about anything until it was too late(well never too late, thay always can start a diet....)....so they should face the consequences of their CHOICE...you don't agree with that?

i'm not exactly sure what you mean by "consequences of their choice." please provide examples.

rand
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:02 PM
riiiiiiiight. but i'm guessing you don't go out of your way to be in any way considerate towards an obese person, either. neglect and alienation are just as hurtful as insults.

actually my mother is obese...do you really believe I would do that?


i'm not exactly sure what you mean by "consequences of their choice." please provide examples.[/QUOTE]
I think I gave a few examples....planes would be one....

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:06 PM
actually my mother is obese...do you really believe I would do that?

Do you share your sentiments about obese people on planes with her? Probably not. But then again, she is your mother.

I think I gave a few examples....planes would be one....

So you think people should just pay extra for being fat? Wow.

rand
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:10 PM
Do you share your sentiments about obese people on planes with her? Probably not. But then again, she is your mother.



So you think people should just pay extra for being fat? Wow.
actually... I do think she ought to pay more yes....otherwise it's just unfair....she weights something like 50 kilos more than me.....if I would take an extra 50 kilo's with me on the plane I would pay a lot more than a second ticket.....otherwise it's just the slim people paying for the fat people on the plane....

apoet29
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:12 PM
apoet, this is serious question, not meant to accuse or anything. With your sister, was there never a time when you could all see she was already overweight, but not yet obese, yet still gaining weight, that you rang the alarm bell? Why wait in trying to lose weight until you're obese? Why let it get that far?

My mother is overweight, we all know why. She's been trying to lose weight, but doesn't have the character for it. But she's not gaining any more weight. She's not headed for obesity. When I spent some time at home, I gain weight. Mom's always scared there won't be enough food so there's always too much. We keep telling her.

As I stated before, my sister has had severe health problems for years. There are times where she has been on a respirator because her asthma is that bad. As such, her breathing problems and the amount of steriods she has had to take to simply function has effected her weight gain.

The point I am trying to make is that it is unfair to penalize someone for their weight. Yes, it is true that people cannot help their skin color, gender, religion, etc, but there are cases of obesity that cannot be helped either.

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:12 PM
actually... I do think she ought to pay more yes....otherwise it's just unfair....she weights something like 50 kilos more than me.....if I would take an extra 50 kilo's with me on the plane I would pay a lot more than a second ticket.....otherwise it's just the slim people paying for the fat people on the plane....

Really? do you tell her that?

and i wasn't aware that plane tix cost more in anticipation of fat people being aboard? that's very interesting.

rand
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:14 PM
Really? do you tell her that?

and i wasn't aware that plane tix cost more in anticipation of fat people being aboard? that's very interesting.
actually she agrees....
well...if you need two seats then it's one seat the company cannot sell innit?

apoet29
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:14 PM
which doen't imlpy I do it....like I say in ulterior posts.....

Honey, if you say it, then more and likely, you do it.

rand
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:16 PM
Honey, if you say it, then more and likely, you do it.
no I don't....

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:17 PM
actually she agrees....
well...if you need two seats then it's one seat the company cannot sell innit?

This makes no sense with what I said. I do not see how the tix cost more this way. the fat person is paying for it, not you.

Honey, if you say it, then more and likely, you do it.

*agrees*

rand
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:20 PM
This makes no sense with what I said. I do not see how the tix cost more this way. the fat person is paying for it, not you.



*agrees*
if someone needing two places pay only for one (like it happens around here) it's one place the company loses...of course they compensate for it on their prices....

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:23 PM
if someone needing two places pay only for one (like it happens around here) it's one place the company loses...of course they compensate for it on their prices....

oh, then i misunderstood you. when you say a person needs two seats, i assumed you meant they bought two seats. in that case, i agree with you. you pay for what you use. but if they only need one seat, they should not have to pay any extra just because they are not your size. that's absurd, and discriminatory.

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:24 PM
the fat person is paying for it,


is he? Do they pay more? I don't think they do.

rand
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:25 PM
oh, then i misunderstood you. when you say a person needs two seats, i assumed you meant they bought two seats. in that case, i agree with you. you pay for what you use. but if they only need one seat, they should not have to pay any extra just because they are not your size. that's absurd, and discriminatory.
of course if you need only one seat you shouldn't pay for two....that would be absurd :confused:

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:26 PM
oh, then i misunderstood you. when you say a person needs two seats, i assumed you meant they bought two seats. in that case, i agree with you. you pay for what you use. but if they only need one seat, they should not have to pay any extra just because they are not your size. that's absurd, and discriminatory.

But if they don't fit in one seat and therefore use one and a half, half of which is the seat of another person who paid full price as well, do you think that's fair? And do you think it's fair we have to pay loads extra if we want to take 10 kg extra, but fat people take 100 kg extra and don't have to pay?

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:28 PM
of course if you need only one seat you shouldn't pay for two....that would be absurd :confused:

the feeling i got was if you wanted to take a little extra luggage, you had to pay extra. and that if ANY fat person wanted to go on the plane, they should have to pay in proportion to their weight...THAT is the feeling I got from reading your posts.

apoet29
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:28 PM
It is my understanding that a person who is significantly overweight and would take up space for two seats has to pay to use two seats. However, if a person can fit into one seat, then he or she is only required to pay for one seat. That is how it was when my sister and I went to Italy last year.

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:29 PM
But if they don't fit in one seat and therefore use one and a half, half of which is the seat of another person who paid full price as well, do you think that's fair? And do you think it's fair we have to pay loads extra if we want to take 10 kg extra, but fat people take 100 kg extra and don't have to pay?

uh, yeah. guess you didn't read my post...but that's okay.

I said, if you need more than one seat, you should pay for two.

and no, if you are fat, but only need one seat, you should not have to pay for your extra weight. that is absurd.

rand
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:30 PM
the feeling i got was if you wanted to take a little extra luggage, you had to pay extra. and that if ANY fat person wanted to go on the plane, they should have to pay in proportion to their weight...THAT is the feeling I got from reading your posts.
nope that's not what I meant...the thing was...I was talking about enough overweight for needing two seats....otherwise I don't even know on what base you would make the decision.....
the 100 kg extra was a clear indication...if someone weights 100 kgs more than me, chances are slim that he would fit on one seat....

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:31 PM
It is my understanding that a person who is significantly overweight and would take up space for two seats has to pay to use two seats. However, if a person can fit into one seat, then he or she is only required to pay for one seat. That is how it was when my sister and I went to Italy last year.

Fit in with the armrests down, I hope.

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:31 PM
nope that's not what I meant...the thing was...I was talking about enough overweight for needing two seats....otherwise I don't even know on what base you would make the decision.....
the 100 kg extra was a clear indication...if someone weights 100 kgs more than me, chances are slim that he would fit on one seat....

okay then...it was just a misunderstanding. i get it, now.

apoet29
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:32 PM
Fit in with the armrests down, I hope.

Fit in with the armrests up actually. I hope you read my response to your question about my sis' weight.

CC
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:33 PM
I think weight gain is mainly emotional. I have seen it in my nephew. He did not have the most stable early years (he's 8 yrs old at present) and right now his mother is so verbally abusive to him, sometimes I feel like telling her to shut the fuck up, but she is very big and I am small. Even if he doesn't show it, it must affect him.

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:35 PM
Fit in with the armrests up actually. I hope you read my response to your question about my sis' weight.

Then anyone can fit in one seat. It's not comfortable for the persons sitting next to a obese person, when they're forced to give up half their seat.

I just read your reply, I missed it first time round.

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:38 PM
another thing, because the seats are so cramped in economy class these days, I try to book tickets in economy plus to get more leg space. I didn't choose be on the tall side, yet I do pay more to fly. That's life.

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:42 PM
I think weight gain is mainly emotional. I have seen it in my nephew. He did not have the most stable early years (he's 8 yrs old at present) and right now his mother is so verbally abusive to him,

I suppose it is partly emotional, but in the case of an 8-year old, it's the kind of foods that are available to him. At that age, you don't choose what you eat, you eat what your parents give you, so in the case of an overweight 8-year old, I'd put the blame with the parents and not the kid.

SJW
Oct 15th, 2003, 02:58 PM
prejudice is gonna exist forever. it's never gonna be wiped out

i'm not overweight, but i'm not thin either. i sympathise with heavy people, but i admit i was the first one cursin' when i had cramp on a plane due to the person in front of me being so heavy that his seat was literally in my lap. i sat there for 8 hours +/- (i was in the middle and couldn't get up cos he didn't get up). i was in such pain cos of the cramp. my legs were seriously trapped cos i couldn't move them to get out of the seat.

so in cases like that yes i get pissed the fuck off. and i believe i'm well within my right. but i'll never go out of my way to make someone feel really bad about their weight.

CC
Oct 15th, 2003, 03:07 PM
I suppose it is partly emotional, but in the case of an 8-year old, it's the kind of foods that are available to him. At that age, you don't choose what you eat, you eat what your parents give you, so in the case of an overweight 8-year old, I'd put the blame with the parents and not the kid.

I put the blame squarely on her. I've seen how she lets him eat.

doloresc
Oct 15th, 2003, 03:19 PM
I suppose it is partly emotional, but in the case of an 8-year old, it's the kind of foods that are available to him. At that age, you don't choose what you eat, you eat what your parents give you, so in the case of an overweight 8-year old, I'd put the blame with the parents and not the kid.

exactly, beggin' beguine. whether it be cc's nephew or some other 8 year old, there is absolutely no reason they should be overweight. i realize there are special circumstances in some cases but overall it's not terribly difficult to feed your kids well AND LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF SERVINGS AND PORTIONS.

it's even more infuriating when the obesity is passed on from generation to another!

Kart
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:11 PM
I think overweight people are getting a bit of a raw deal from some people here.

It's easy to put on weight when you're not thinking about it. We know from scientific studies now that once you get the fat cells, you can never lose them, only deplete them which basically means that it is much harder to keep the weight down once you've been up there. There's also a genetic element there as well and who knows what other factors come into play.

Being overweight I can imagine is hard for someone to deal with if they don't want to look that way. There are all sorts of psychosocial issues with body image that I don't really know how to touch upon. There's no need to make someone like that feel any worse really is there ?

apoet29
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:18 PM
I think overweight people are getting a bit of a raw deal from some people here.

It's easy to put on weight when you're not thinking about it. We know from scientific studies now that once you get the fat cells, you can never lose them, only deplete them which basically means that it is much harder to keep the weight down once you've been up there. There's also a genetic element there as well and who knows what other factors come into play.

Being overweight I can imagine is hard for someone to deal with if they don't want to look that way. There are all sorts of psychosocial issues with body image that I don't really know how to touch upon. There's no need to make someone like that feel any worse really is there ?

Thank you so much Kart. You have said in one post what I could not clearly express in several posts.

With some of the comments I've read here, it is no wonder that so many people suffer from a distorted body image.

doloresc
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:28 PM
Thank you so much Kart. You have said in one post what I could not clearly express in several posts.

With some of the comments I've read here, it is no wonder that so many people suffer from a distorted body image.

apoet29, no one has said that obese people don't deserve respect and love! however, you can't rectify a problem by mollycoddling the issue. your sister and others with a weight problem will be better served with a more assertive approach, in my opinion. i'd rather tell someone "if you don't want to gain more weight, then don't eat as much, monitor what you eat and get some exercise" as opposed to "it's ok, you're just a big-boned girl and besides it's not your fault you have a hearty appetite".

there are a million success stories and your sister and countless others can join that group. but ultimately it's up to them.

apoet29
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:32 PM
apoet29, no one has said that obese people don't deserve respect and love! however, you can't rectify a problem by mollycoddling the issue. your sister and others with a weight problem will be better served with a more assertive approach, in my opinion. i'd rather tell someone "if you don't want to gain more weight, then don't eat as much, monitor what you eat and get some exercise" as opposed to "it's ok, you're just a big-boned girl and besides it's not your fault you ahve a hearty appetite".

there are a million success stories and your sister and countless others can join that group. but ultimately it's up to them.

Darling, I am not talking about you, but others who have contributed to this thread. Go back through it. Some of the comments have not been nice at all.

I don't believe in mollycoddlying the issue either, but telling someone, "Hey, fatty, why don't you lost some weight!" doesn't motivate that person to lose weight. In fact, it makes them feel worse. You're right. An assertive approach is needed to help people lose weight, but it is not easy for those people to lose weight if they have specific health issues. That's all I am trying to say.

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:34 PM
apoet, the point I was trying to +ake is exactly what dolores said. You have to be firm.

apoet29
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:36 PM
apoet, the point I was trying to +ake is exactly what dolores said. You have to be firm.

Honey, I wasn't referring to you either. I was specifically referring to Rand, Ys, and Cybelle. I like all of them, but their views on obesity were shocking and disturbing to me.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:38 PM
Gee, should ultra skinny people who only take up half a seat get to pay half price?

Kart
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:38 PM
doloresc, why not say both - "it's ok, you're a big-boned girl and it's not your fault you have a hearty appetite BUT if you don't want to gain more weight, then try not to eat as much, monitor what you eat and get some exercise."

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:39 PM
Honey, I wasn't referring to you either. I was specifically referring to Rand, Ys, and Cybelle. I like all of them, but their views on obesity were shocking and disturbing to me.
Disgusting views, but not surprising... they are shared by many, unfortunately.

Personally, I'm not about to look down on what people heavier than me eat. I regularly consume chips, McDonalds, candy, etc. I just happen to be physically active and have a good metabolism. I lucked out... that certainly doesn't give me the right to turn my nose up at everybody who didn't.

rand
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:39 PM
Honey, I wasn't referring to you either. I was specifically referring to Rand, Ys, and Cybelle. I like all of them, but their views on obesity were shocking and disturbing to me.
in what were my views on obesity worse than tine's :confused: I believe you haven't be reading my posts well....

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:39 PM
Gee, should ultra skinny people who only take up half a seat get to pay half price?

If two skinny people can fit in one seat and feel like doing this for the entire flight, then yes.

But we all know that even skinny people take up the entire seat.

doloresc
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:39 PM
apoet, the point I was trying to +ake is exactly what dolores said. You have to be firm.

exactly! apoet29, you don't have to insult the obese person BUT you must make it clear: losing weight will be hard work! if they want to be thin badly enough, it CAN happen but it will require a lot of patience and perseverence. if you baby them then you're giving them the opportunity to fail. losing weight is a serious matter and for those willing to take it seriously, they will be rewarded with a brand new outlook on life.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:41 PM
If only we were this harsh on people who were too SKINNY :)

doloresc
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:41 PM
doloresc, why not say both - "it's ok, you're a big-boned girl and it's not your fault you have a hearty appetite BUT if you don't want to gain more weight, then try not to eat as much, monitor what you eat and get some exercise."

kart, that can work as well but you have to be careful not to border on sugarcoating with the positivity.

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:43 PM
Sorry, I don't buy that metabolism crap. It might be true for a minority, it's not for the majority. I believe everyone has a certain healthy stable weight and that this weight is different for everyone, determined by DNA, but no one's healthy stable weight is 300 pounds. All the overweight people I know eat too much! *munch munch* I can't help it, it's my metabolism *munch mumch*
Too many people who're obese are using it as an excuse, for some it might be true, it's not for the majority.

Kart
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:43 PM
If only we were this harsh on people who were too SKINNY :)

As a skinny person, believe me you don't get off easily either.

People keep chasing me to make sure I've eaten :rolleyes:.

Poe
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:44 PM
Ugh Fat. Yuck.

I am sorry but its not hard to ask these people to lose some weight!!! I mean how bad are these people being persecuted if there are so many freaking fat people still in the country??? Obviously they are not being treated harsh enough if we are the biggest most obsese nation in the known world. Ugh.

I swear we should drop off plane load of these fat greedy resource hogging balloon people into a third world nation so they can feed the starving. Canniablism gotta love it. I'm sure that woman from the practice could feed a small village.

Looks like you have enough on your own plate to worry about.

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:44 PM
If only we were this harsh on people who were too SKINNY :)

Judging by the threads on Daniela Hantuchova and how people react to Lara Flynn Boyle, I'd say people are just as harsh.

doloresc
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:45 PM
If only we were this harsh on people who were too SKINNY :)

i've got one word for you:

hantuchova

or were you being facetious and i missed it? :o

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:45 PM
As a skinny person, believe me you don't get off easily either.

People keep chasing me to make sure I've eaten :rolleyes:.
Yeah yeah.... I know, it's not always easy being pencil thin either - just ask Hantuchova. But there are many people who are questionabley skinny who are still considered "ideal"... that is what I was getting at. If you're slightly underweight people are less likely to notice or insult you for it than if oyu are slightly overweight..

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:46 PM
i've got one word for you:

hantuchova

or were you being facetious and i missed it? :o
Read my post that followed this :p

apoet29
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:47 PM
in what were my views on obesity worse than tine's :confused: I believe you haven't be reading my posts well....

Honey, Tine may be critical, but has never said that it is okay to make fun of obese people. You, on the other hand, said that it was okay.

I actually believe there's no problem with the looking bad at too fat people....
for most of them (there are exceptions I KNOW ...)they're fat by their own fault....living on a mcDonalds diet and diet coke?

Do you remember this quote? That is what I am referring to.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:47 PM
Sorry, I don't buy that metabolism crap. It might be true for a minority, it's not for the majority. I believe everyone has a certain healthy stable weight and that this weight is different for everyone, determined by DNA, but no one's healthy stable weight is 300 pounds. All the overweight people I know eat too much! *munch munch* I can't help it, it's my metabolism *munch mumch*
Too many people who're obese are using it as an excuse, for some it might be true, it's not for the majority.
Right, so lets make sure to make ALL of them feel like crap, even those who truly can NOT help it :)

doloresc
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:48 PM
Sorry, I don't buy that metabolism crap. It might be true for a minority, it's not for the majority. I believe everyone has a certain healthy stable weight and that this weight is different for everyone, determined by DNA, but no one's healthy stable weight is 300 pounds. All the overweight people I know eat too much! *munch munch* I can't help it, it's my metabolism *munch mumch*
Too many people who're obese are using it as an excuse, for some it might be true, it's not for the majority.

i'm in total agreement, beggin' beguine!!

you should see when i go out to dinner and i notice that someone has 3 different types of starch on their plate. i cringe! :o

and, yes, there's absolutely NO REASON someone should be 300lbs!!!!!

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:49 PM
i'm in total agreement, beggin' beguine!!

you should see when i go out to dinner and i notice that someone has 3 different types of starch on their plate. i cringe! :o

and, yes, there's absolutely NO REASON someone should be 300lbs!!!!!
Why are you so concerned with what everybody else is eating? This is the part where i get lost... so they are heavy and eat a lot... so? What is it to you? Somebody help me out here.

Kart
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:49 PM
kart, that can work as well but you have to be careful not to border on sugarcoating with the positivity.

Absolutely, but I think the most important thing is for someone to want to lose weight for themselves - not for you, me or just to fit in with their friends.

You can be firm but never make someone feel guilty for looking the way they do. It's counter productive and it's cruel as well.

Good advice is even better when put sensitively.

rand
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:49 PM
Honey, Tine may be critical, but has never said that it is okay to make fun of obese people. You, on the other hand, said that it was okay.

I actually believe there's no problem with the looking bad at too fat people....
for most of them (there are exceptions I KNOW ...)they're fat by their own fault....living on a mcDonalds diet and diet coke?

Do you remember this quote? That is what I am referring to.
yeah but I explained that....

apoet29
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:49 PM
Sorry, I don't buy that metabolism crap. It might be true for a minority, it's not for the majority. I believe everyone has a certain healthy stable weight and that this weight is different for everyone, determined by DNA, but no one's healthy stable weight is 300 pounds. All the overweight people I know eat too much! *munch munch* I can't help it, it's my metabolism *munch mumch*
Too many people who're obese are using it as an excuse, for some it might be true, it's not for the majority.

I agree with you to a degree. But you keep stating that overweight people are heavy simply because they eat too much. That may be true for majority of the cases, but not for all of them. What you are not taking into consideration is the fact that some people may have a medical condition which causes what gain. When my sister started taking steroids for her asthma, that really caused her to gain weight. Eating habits are a definite part of weight gain, but it may not be the entire reason.

doloresc
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:52 PM
Yeah yeah.... I know, it's not always easy being pencil thin either - just ask Hantuchova. But there are many people who are questionabley skinny who are still considered "ideal"... that is what I was getting at. If you're slightly underweight people are less likely to notice or insult you for it than if oyu are slightly overweight..

crazy canuck, it's considered ideal by the fashion world but they are hardly representative of real people. skinny people get their own share of criticism particularly skinny females (anorexia, bulimia) and it leaves the same type of emotional scars as those of obese people.

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:52 PM
Right, so lets make sure to make ALL of them feel like crap, even those who truly can NOT help it :)

You're completely missing my point. I'm never going to approach a stranger and tell him what to do, it's up to the people who love this person to tell him.

We used to have a cleaning lady here who smelled terribly. That's something you don't always know about yourself. I never told her anything about it, I was hoping some of the people who know her well would. If I was very smelly, I know my mother would tell me.

TennisHack
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:55 PM
I agree with you to a degree. But you keep stating that overweight people are heavy simply because they eat too much. That may be true for majority of the cases, but not for all of them. What you are not taking into consideration is the fact that some people may have a medical condition which causes what gain. When my sister started taking steroids for her asthma, that really caused her to gain weight. Eating habits are a definite part of weight gain, but it may not be the entire reason.

Amen, and amen. I know people don't like to accept that weight gain is not completely within human control, but it isn't. People think just because you eat, you can control your weight. That isn't so.

As for everyone in this thread who has said that looking at fat people is disgusting and you have no sympathy for them, my only wish for you is to experience what you're dishing out. Heavy people already have horrible self-images and gaining only disgust from even the closest friends and family only makes them feel worse.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:55 PM
crazy canuck, it's considered ideal by the fashion world but they are hardly representative of real people. skinny people get their own share of criticism particularly skinny females (anorexia, bulimia) and it leaves the same type of emotional scars as those of obese people.
I was only basing that on personal experience... my friends who are looking a little lost when wearing a size 2 still don't get the same looks of digust as my friends who have to squeeze into a size 16 or whatever. I'm not saying that I think skinny people should be ragged on too.... au contraire; I think that people should mind their own fucking business and focus on their own lives and bodies as opposed to wasting all this emotional energy being upset over things they can't control - like other peoples bodies :)

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:55 PM
apoet, I understand your sister is a special case. I once saw a documentary on a girl with severe epilepsy. The meds she had to take also made her gain a lot of weight. She had a brain operation, after that she no longer needed to take those meds so she started losing that weight again.

i must say though that though she was overweight, she wasn't obese. But maybe, had she been forced to take those meds her entire life...

doloresc
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:56 PM
Why are you so concerned with what everybody else is eating? This is the part where i get lost... so they are heavy and eat a lot... so? What is it to you? Somebody help me out here.

crazy canuck, the reason i'm concerned is because there are many people out there who complain about being obese and how it makes them unhappy. i get frustrated hearing all this because they have control over their situation. smoking is affecting your health? quit or cut down your smoking. hate hangovers? stop or curb your drinking. sick of being overweight? diet, eat less, exercise. it's not easy BUT you can overcome these things that make you unhappy.

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:57 PM
It's easy to say we should mind our own business, but obese people have more health problems and in the end it's the tax payer who has to pay for it.

Kart
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:58 PM
Sorry, I don't buy that metabolism crap. It might be true for a minority, it's not for the majority. I believe everyone has a certain healthy stable weight and that this weight is different for everyone, determined by DNA, but no one's healthy stable weight is 300 pounds. All the overweight people I know eat too much! *munch munch* I can't help it, it's my metabolism *munch mumch*
Too many people who're obese are using it as an excuse, for some it might be true, it's not for the majority.

Actually I think they've found the obesity gene - it expresses a protein called leptin which is supposed to be an appetite suppressant and expressed less in some people who are morbidly obese. Or something along those lines.

I do understand what you mean though. At least though that if the person who thinks it's their metabolism believes that then they can take comfort in that attitude instead of guilt.

I have to time for them if they moan about being overweight and haven't tried to lose weight, but if they think it's their metabolism and aren't moaning I don't really have any problem with that if their health isn't at risk.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 04:58 PM
As for everyone in this thread who has said that looking at fat people is disgusting and you have no sympathy for them, my only wish for you is to experience what you're dishing out. Heavy people already have horrible self-images and gaining only disgust from even the closest friends and family only makes them feel worse.

Very nicely said...

it's very easy to look down on an entire group of people that you don't understand and critisize them, isn't it? I suppose this is peoples way of giving themselves a pat on the back; "oh me, aren't I just king shit because I happen to have a nice body"... apparently it isn't enough that they are "healthy looking", they have to rag on people who apparently are not in order to make themsevles feel better.

apoet29
Oct 15th, 2003, 05:00 PM
apoet, I understand your sister is a special case. I once saw a documentary on a girl with severe epilepsy. The meds she had to take also made her gain a lot of weight. She had a brain operation, after that she no longer needed to take those meds so she started losing that weight again.

i must say though that though she was overweight, she wasn't obese. But maybe, had she been forced to take those meds her entire life...

Honey, it's not just my sister. I'm sure that not every overweight person is obese because of eating habits, but because of health and medical problems. My sister was always big, but steroids really caused her weight to increase dramatically. It is a Catch-22 for her. She needs to take the steroids for her asthma, but the steroids are also causing her health problems. I do feel that there are obese people who may have medical problems that caused their obesity.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 05:00 PM
It's easy to say we should mind our own business, but obese people have more health problems and in the end it's the tax payer who has to pay for it.
Then I suppose that you also look down with disgust on low income families who also benefit from the tax payers dollar (erm... they do here, anyways. If this isn't the case in Belgium... my bad).

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 05:01 PM
crazy canuck, the reason i'm concerned is because there are many people out there who complain about being obese and how it makes them unhappy. i get frustrated hearing all this because they have control over their situation. smoking is affecting your health? quit or cut down your smoking. hate hangovers? stop or curb your drinking. sick of being overweight? diet, eat less, exercise. it's not easy BUT you can overcome these things that make you unhappy.
If you're generally concerned about their sense of well being, then my rants aren't directed at you... they are directed at the people who just hate having to look at people who happen to be heavier than ideal.

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 05:04 PM
Then I suppose that you also look down with disgust on low income families who also benefit from the tax payers dollar (erm... they do here, anyways. If this isn't the case in Belgium... my bad).

Those who don't feel like working and prefer to live off the tax payers money, yes, of course I look down at them.

I don't look down at people who through certain misfortunes had no choice but to live off welfare, cause that's what it's for.

doloresc
Oct 15th, 2003, 05:05 PM
I was only basing that on personal experience... my friends who are looking a little lost when wearing a size 2 still don't get the same looks of digust as my friends who have to squeeze into a size 16 or whatever. I'm not saying that I think skinny people should be ragged on too.... au contraire; I think that people should mind their own fucking business and focus on their own lives and bodies as opposed to wasting all this emotional energy being upset over things they can't control - like other peoples bodies :)

crazy canuck, as if you've never cared or reacted to something about other people that you can't control. come on; you're human. it's something we all do. of course, it's not my body but i'm entitled to have an opinion on someone's obesity.

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 05:07 PM
If it's a gene, where did it come from? As far as I know Americans all descend from Europeans, Asians, Africans, etc. places where obesity isn't nearly as common as in the US. It's not a coincidence that it's mainly in the US where you find so many seriously obese people. The eating habits of Americans are very different from the average European.

doloresc
Oct 15th, 2003, 05:13 PM
If you're generally concerned about their sense of well being, then my rants aren't directed at you... they are directed at the people who just hate having to look at people who happen to be heavier than ideal.

crazy canuck, i'm genuinely concerned. i don't like to see people unhappy especially when they have the ability to change their situation.

Kart
Oct 15th, 2003, 05:15 PM
It's easy to say we should mind our own business, but obese people have more health problems and in the end it's the tax payer who has to pay for it.

Can I assume that you take that attitude with smokers and people who drink as well - after all those two cause a massive strain on the health service worldwide.

About the genetics - it's not solely on genes of course. Obesity is what could be termed 'multifactorial' which means it's a combination of genes and environment. Which would presumably partly explain its distribution.

My point was though not to justify or explain obesity, just to say that point out that people should not be forced to attempt to look a certain way. If they want to take solace in excuses like their metabolism then let them. The decision to lose weight has to be theirs and one they make without being made to feel guilty for who they are.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 05:15 PM
crazy canuck, as if you've never cared or reacted to something about other people that you can't control. come on; you're human. it's something we all do. of course, it's not my body but i'm entitled to have an opinion on someone's obesity.
Of course I've done it... but I don't spend my hours sitting around thinking about how disgusting "fat people" are so that I can look in the mirror later and give myself a satisfied grin and think "oh, don't I measure up nicely!" Which, quite frankly, is why I believe so many people insist on slamming obese people - it makes them feel better about themselves.

Although to be fair, I bag on idiots all the time - one could say I do that to make myself feel better :)

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 05:16 PM
Those who don't feel like working and prefer to live off the tax payers money, yes, of course I look down at them.

I don't look down at people who through certain misfortunes had no choice but to live off welfare, cause that's what it's for.
Well as long as you look down on them, smokers/drinkers, drug addicts, and the occasional senior citizen (afterall - had they led a healthy life, perhaps they wouldn't be having so many health problems!) - then I'll leave you alone, since that would be a balanced viewpoint :p

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 05:19 PM
This reminds me of a thread i started in General Messages once... I was sick of reading all the buillshit people wrote about Hantuchova, and though I would try to set a couple things straight (yes, I know I'm self righteous :)). The thread somehow turned from a dicussion on eating disorders, to a place to bash "fat people". The posters in that thread seemed to sympathize far more with the people who were too skinny due to an eating disorder... many of them seemed to have no idea that one could be heavy due to psychological problems as well :rolleyes:

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 05:20 PM
If they want to take solace in excuses like their metabolism then let them. The decision to lose weight has to be theirs and one they make without being made to feel guilty for who they are.

But then they shouldn't whine that people call them lazy. I would never say this to a stranger's face, though. But if it's a personal choice, then I don't think I should feel guilty about thinking they're lazy (again, I repeat, there are exceptions)

And yes, I'm very strict on smokers, just check other threads here on WTAworld.

Kart
Oct 15th, 2003, 05:25 PM
But then they shouldn't whine that people call them lazy.

If you mean they whine about being overweight without trying to lose weight and get called lazy then I agree with you.

doloresc
Oct 15th, 2003, 05:36 PM
Of course I've done it... but I don't spend my hours sitting around thinking about how disgusting "fat people" are so that I can look in the mirror later and give myself a satisfied grin and think "oh, don't I measure up nicely!" Which, quite frankly, is why I believe so many people insist on slamming obese people - it makes them feel better about themselves.

Although to be fair, I bag on idiots all the time - one could say I do that to make myself feel better :)

crazy canuck, i feel the same way about both obese and skinny people who have issues about weight: i have sympathy. i wish i could give them the strength to get through their unhappiness because as well all know life is too short...

i realize that for some, it stems from psychological issues. i hope that their loved ones are there to rally around them to get them to a better place.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 05:51 PM
crazy canuck, i feel the same way about both obese and skinny people who have issues about weight: i have sympathy. i wish i could give them the strength to get through their unhappiness because as well all know life is too short...

i realize that for some, it stems from psychological issues. i hope that their loved ones are there to rally around them to get them to a better place.
Well I'm glad you feel that way... again, my rants aren't directed at people like you - or Tine, for that matter. They are directed at a couple other people in this thread who don't really give a fuck about these people but insult them anyways.

Cybelle Darkholme
Oct 15th, 2003, 06:44 PM
You're right. Being deragatory and calling them names and discriminating against fat people is awful.

However one cannot just act like being obese is fine. I mean there is a problem in this country, america, and pretending like nothing is wrong will not help.

I know this bunch of over weight women who go out and have fun together and pal around and thats great but they act like being overweight is a good thing. They parade around in clothing much too tight and not cut right for their bodies and act like its hot!!!


Please! Someone has to tell these women that being 100 pounds overweight is not cute and is dangerous. if you cant see your toes then houston we have a problem because sister girl will not be able to lift off from a chair much less the earth.

IMO its a sign of mental instability or deficiency to let yourself baloon into some whale sized walking snack factory.

EAT HEALTHY FOODS. EAT ALL YOU WANT. EAT HEALTHY. AND EXCERCISE.

Or at least get a gastric bypass and call it a day.

Ballbuster
Oct 15th, 2003, 06:48 PM
I cant' help it. I automatically get angry/pissed/mad at obese people. It's the one thing I never want to be and fortunately, I'm not.

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 06:51 PM
I cant' help it. I automatically get angry/pissed/mad at obese people. It's the one thing I never want to be and fortunately, I'm not.

ohhhhhhhhhh yeahhhhhhhhh, I can't handle you, bay-beeeeeeee :eek:

Gallofa
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:06 PM
My only point was cruelty is cruelty, being mean to someone is wrong, it changes nothing if it's weight or race.

Great words, that is a great thing to say. A great thing to understand. No cruelty can be tolerated. All cruelty is the same. All injustice is the same. If you rank it, you allow yourself to be mean, unfair and cruel.

I think many of you, the self-declared strict people of the world, must have had it very easy or are a bit heartless. Sorry, but anyone that has had to overcome an addiction (to food, to cigarrettes, to drugs, to chocolate...) knows what I mean. And this whole "you brought it onto yourself" declarations are not very useful. Trust me, they already know.

Regarding a previous discussion, I think anyone that takes up two seats on a plane should pay for two seats, regardless of personal size, it is only fair, that is not a punishment to fat/tall/mothers' with children, just a fair thing.

SJW
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:21 PM
Very nicely said...

it's very easy to look down on an entire group of people that you don't understand and critisize them, isn't it? I suppose this is peoples way of giving themselves a pat on the back; "oh me, aren't I just king shit because I happen to have a nice body"... apparently it isn't enough that they are "healthy looking", they have to rag on people who apparently are not in order to make themsevles feel better.

very nicely said

apoet29
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:39 PM
I just wanted to take the time to thank all of you. While I did not agree with all points made, I think we have had a lively discussion about an issue that is a definite problem in our society.

I'm off to teach another class. Have a good evening!

Ballbuster
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:40 PM
ohhhhhhhhhh yeahhhhhhhhh, I can't handle you, bay-beeeeeeee :eek:

To GBFH stands for


Great
Big
Fat
Hater?

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 07:41 PM
To GBFH stands for


Great
Big
Fat
Hater?

close enough.

but really, i can't handle you, bay-beeeeeeeeeeeee :eek:

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:02 PM
I cant' help it. I automatically get angry/pissed/mad at obese people. It's the one thing I never want to be and fortunately, I'm not.
Ah, finally somebody tells the truth ;) Displacing your own fear of obesity on to those who are in order to make yourself feel better. Congratulations, you win the honesty prize :p

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:06 PM
IMO its a sign of mental instability or deficiency to let yourself baloon into some whale sized walking snack factory.

IMO it's a sign of psychological instability to focus obsessively on things you can't control, or to insult groups of people who are at less of an advantage than you in order to make yourself feel better... a healthy individual wouldn't have to do either of these things.

Furthermore, if you truly believe these people are mentally unstable (something I don't agree with, btw), critisizing them for it is even more pathetic! Gee, let's laugh at people with psychological problems! Let's give ourselves another pat on the back!

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:19 PM
IMO its a sign of mental instability or deficiency to let yourself baloon into some whale sized walking snack factory.

EAT HEALTHY FOODS. EAT ALL YOU WANT. EAT HEALTHY. AND EXCERCISE.

Or at least get a gastric bypass and call it a day.

wow, thank you, Cybelle; i've seen the light.

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:27 PM
Fat people are good. Remember "Fight Club" and soap factory?

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:30 PM
Fat people are good. Remember "Fight Club" and soap factory?

actually, i think lean and muscular people are good. Remember "silence of the lambs" and Dr.Chilton? :lick:

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:31 PM
actually, i think lean and muscular people are good. Remember "silence of the lambs" and Dr.Chilton? :lick:

That was excellent... For dinner. But a gentleman has to be clean by the dinner time, and so we need a soap first..

LostInThe80s
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:33 PM
the only thing i have against fat people is that in one sitting they eat a meal that can feed a family of five in some third world country.

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:34 PM
That was excellent... For dinner. But a gentleman has to be clean by the dinner time, and so we need a soap first..

oh, i'm sure you have a little fat stored somewhere...kill two birds with one stone :lick:

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:34 PM
the only thing i have against fat people is that in one sitting they eat a meal that can feed a family of five in some third world country.


Every single one of then can feed a tribe in some third world country..

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:34 PM
the only thing i have against fat people is that in one sitting they eat a meal that can feed a family of five in some third world country.
Regular people eat meals that could feed a family of five in some third world country. Go rag on them.

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:35 PM
oh, i'm sure you have a little fat stored somewhere...kill two birds with one stone :lick:

No I have no fat. Fat is evil. When I start to accumulate some fat, I am no longer capable of reaching the dropshots.. So no fat..

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:35 PM
the only thing i have against fat people is that in one sitting they eat a meal that can feed a family of five in some third world country.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:36 PM
No I have no fat. Fat is evil. When I start to accumulate some fat, I am no longer capable of reaching the dropshots.. So no fat..

not possible. you can't live without fat in your body....so maybe i should encourage you to exercise more.

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:37 PM
I think that comment is a joke ;) but i might be wrong

considering the sentiments of most people on this board...i doubt it.

King Satan
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:40 PM
To all the fat ppl haters!

KISS MY FAT ASS! :)

LostInThe80s
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:47 PM
I think that comment is a joke ;) but i might be wrong

if you were referring to my comment i wasn't joking. i realise it was a bit over the top but it's how i truly feel.

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:50 PM
not possible. you can't live without fat in your body....so maybe i should encourage you to exercise more.

I would not mind. Would you join me? I know some very well working fat-burning exercises..

TennisHack
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:51 PM
However one cannot just act like being obese is fine. I mean there is a problem in this country, america, and pretending like nothing is wrong will not help.

This is the attitude I just don't get. You think fat people don't KNOW they have problems? That you're the first one to tell them? Please!

How about you (and here, I mean everyone) leave others be and worry about your own problems? Why do you feel that you are entitled to pass judgment on someone you don't know (or even someone you do)?

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:52 PM
I would not mind. Would you join me? I know some very well working fat-burning exercises..

certainly.
maybe we could go for a few drinks afterward, you drive :yeah:

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:52 PM
This is the attitude I just don't get. You think fat people don't KNOW they have problems?

You never know.. Excessive fat can easily cause brain blood supply problem.

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:53 PM
certainly.
maybe we could go for a few drinks afterward, you drive :yeah:

Your wish.. :devil:

King Satan
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:54 PM
I can't believe the attitude some of you have. you act like fat ppl aren't human. :rolleyes:

you guys are the ones that need help.

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:55 PM
I can't believe the attitude some of you have. you act like fat ppl aren't human. :rolleyes:

you guys are the ones that need help.

Any help is always welcome.

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:55 PM
Your wish.. :devil:

:yeah:

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:56 PM
Any help is always welcome.

after a few drinks, and some fat-burning exercises, of course.

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 08:58 PM
after a few drinks, and some fat-burning exercises, of course.

Wrong order. Fat-burning exercises are supposed to be followed by more drinks.

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:00 PM
Wrong order. Fat-burning exercises are supposed to be followed by more drinks.

naturally.

but when do we make soap?

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:04 PM
naturally.

but when do we make soap?

That has to be the first thing on our list, we'll need a lot of soap at the end..

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:07 PM
That has to be the first thing on our list, we'll need a lot of soap at the end..

we'll lure all of the fatties with a free-junk food giveaway. we all know they eat that crap by the ton...just don't know if it's wise, though. having them all congregate in one area might cause a fissure in the earth.

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:12 PM
having them all congregate in one area might cause a fissure in the earth.

Easily.. It could misplace Earth rotation axis and cause some global climate change. So, we should select the area very carefully. How about Atlanta? So, CNN would be able to have another fat phobia study?

GBFH
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:16 PM
Easily.. It could misplace Earth rotation axis and cause some global climate change. So, we should select the area very carefully. How about Atlanta? So, CNN would be able to have another fat phobia study?

or maybe we could round up all of the fat people in America and ship them off to Iraq....forget spending millions on missles, just drop a 300lbs-er on 'em...and all of the fat that explodes out of their bodies would ignite and burn that place to the ground...

Fatties: the NEW weapon for the war on terrorism.

Princess Fiona
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:51 PM
I know this bunch of over weight women who go out and have fun together and pal around and thats great but they act like being overweight is a good thing. They parade around in clothing much too tight and not cut right for their bodies and act like its hot!!!

Maybe these women have been ridiculed in the street - an overweight person's life can be total misery. If they can get together and feel better about life and themselves then why not? They are trying to help each other with self-esteem? Trying to look nice in certain clothes...

(I think other posters are more eloquent than me here - I don't really like some of the comments I've seen about overweight people so I'll leave it... :) )

Ballbuster
Oct 15th, 2003, 09:53 PM
Ah, finally somebody tells the truth ;) Displacing your own fear of obesity on to those who are in order to make yourself feel better. Congratulations, you win the honesty prize :p


You must be Queen Rebecca. What's with the name change. Queen!!!!!!


But yes, that's true. I don't want to be anywhere near fat, btw, I weigh 225, and I'm the heavest I've ever been. Whenever I tell people I'm fat that gasp and ask where. But I can see some.

But not like you Crazy Canuck.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 10:06 PM
You must be Queen Rebecca. What's with the name change. Queen!!!!!!


But yes, that's true. I don't want to be anywhere near fat, btw, I weigh 225, and I'm the heavest I've ever been. Whenever I tell people I'm fat that gasp and ask where. But I can see some.

But not like you Crazy Canuck.
How am I? ;)

Crazy Canuck
Oct 15th, 2003, 10:09 PM
I can't believe the attitude some of you have. you act like fat ppl aren't human. :rolleyes:

you guys are the ones that need help.
Indeed. I've already shared my theory - that the people who are downright cruel to obese people are doing so out of their own fears and insecurities (I stress that this does not included people like doloesc, Tine, etc. who may have opinions that differ from mine, but don't go out of their way to be cruel to this group of people)

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 11:09 PM
Indeed. I've already shared my theory - that the people who are downright cruel to obese people are doing so out of their own fears and insecurities

That's bull, dear.. Do people who dislike something that is not esthetic, such as ugly paintings (like contemporary avanguard crap ), or ugly music ( like rap or hip-hop ), or ugly building , do it out of any kind of fear or insecutiry.. No, simply because seeing that something leaves a scratch on our perception of picture around us.

You would say that it should not be directed to people.. I'd say, why not. When I am getting back home from beauty of Vermont or Utah, and then I see an ugly ( but looking perfectly healthy ) beggar on the street of NYC, I really wish he'd be gone.. Do you?

Kart
Oct 15th, 2003, 11:20 PM
You would say that it should not be directed to people.. I'd say, why not. When I am getting back home from beauty of Vermont or Utah, and then I see an ugly ( but looking perfectly healthy ) beggar on the street of NYC, I really wish he'd be gone.. Do you?

You're actually quite amusing :lol:.

Tell me though, when an ugly nurse comes to feed you after your drink drive accident, when you can't do it for yourself, would you wish her be gone as well ?

ys
Oct 15th, 2003, 11:24 PM
You're actually quite amusing :lol:.

Tell me though, when an ugly nurse comes to feed you after your drink drive accident, when you can't do it for yourself, would you wish her be gone as well ?

No, but I would probably make no advances. Things could be really differrent if she is not ugly.

Kart
Oct 15th, 2003, 11:26 PM
No, but I would probably make no advances. Things could be really differrent if she is not ugly.

I'm sure she'd be kicking herself for missing out :).

gentenaire
Oct 15th, 2003, 11:47 PM
If someone dislikes fat people, it's better to keep it to themselves. It's just a question of respect I would say. Paintaings / music / buildings are objects, no one is hurted if you find some ugly.

The artist/composer/architect might be hurt.

Cybelle Darkholme
Oct 15th, 2003, 11:53 PM
IMO it's a sign of psychological instability to focus obsessively on things you can't control, or to insult groups of people who are at less of an advantage than you in order to make yourself feel better... a healthy individual wouldn't have to do either of these things.

Furthermore, if you truly believe these people are mentally unstable (something I don't agree with, btw), critisizing them for it is even more pathetic! Gee, let's laugh at people with psychological problems! Let's give ourselves another pat on the back!


I'm noy trying to be mean or hateful but come one how hard is it to eat the right food and excercise????

This is not brain surgery. There are people in the world who don't have the Luxury to be overweight and face it thats what being overweight is, an american luxury or shall I say a first world country luxury.

Try travelling to a few developing countries and tell me how many obese people you come across. Hell even second world countries don't face this problem.

Honestly, I do believe some may be mentall unstable and dealing with perhaps depression or some other illness but I also believe a large, no pun intended, majoritys is simply lazy couch potato tv watching motherfuckers. Those are the individuals I have no sympthay for. Those are the people who I don't want my tax dollars supporiting when their asses are in the hospital for weight related problems that could be dealth with if that stop eating so many damn twinkies.

Discrimination is wrong, I agree, but dang can't they put down that freaking hoho?

Cybelle Darkholme
Oct 16th, 2003, 12:00 AM
Maybe these women have been ridiculed in the street - an overweight person's life can be total misery. If they can get together and feel better about life and themselves then why not? They are trying to help each other with self-esteem? Trying to look nice in certain clothes...

(I think other posters are more eloquent than me here - I don't really like some of the comments I've seen about overweight people so I'll leave it... :) )

okay I agree to a point. Look if these chicks were ugly as sin and went out and did this I would cheer them on. But being fat is not like being ugly. Being obese in my opinion is like bad hygiene. Would you go up to someone who hadn't bathed in a month and praised them and hi fived them and say, "go on girl you look how you want to look! You don't have to wash nothing! Stank on girlfriend stank on!"

PLEASE!

Its not healthy! Just like weighing the size of a bengal tiger is not healthy!!!!

Truly I am not trying to be evil. This issue is dear to me because my own mother is overweight and shes getting older and if she does not lose this weight it will go bad for her. I've spoken to her doctors and whats in the wings is not pretty. SHE STILL WONT DO A DAMN THING. She wont jog with me. She wont work out with me. She wont even freaking cook the healthy recipes I dig up for her!!!!

Its like she wants to die of a heart attack or god forbid diabetes which is so awful. I'm on my last nerve with her and my sister and brother have to deal with her because I'll start yelling and screaming.

vaiva
Oct 16th, 2003, 12:04 AM
This is not brain surgery. There are people in the world who don't have the Luxury to be overweight and face it thats what being overweight is, an american luxury or shall I say a first world country luxury.

Try travelling to a few developing countries and tell me how many obese people you come across. Hell even second world countries don't face this problem.

Nonsense.

For instance, obesity is becoming a serious problem in China. It hasn't reached the USA levels but the percentage of obese population is ever growing.

Unless, of course, you consider China a first world country ;)

Sam L
Oct 16th, 2003, 12:07 AM
An easy way to lose weight is to eat less meat. And you save more money too cause meat costs more in supermarkets. Just a thought.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 16th, 2003, 12:11 AM
That's bull, dear.. Do people who dislike something that is not esthetic, such as ugly paintings (like contemporary avanguard crap ), or ugly music ( like rap or hip-hop ), or ugly building , do it out of any kind of fear or insecutiry.. No, simply because seeing that something leaves a scratch on our perception of picture around us.

There is a difference between noting something is unattractive, and responding to said stimulus with immense hostility and disgust... I believe that those who respond in such an intense manner do so as a result fo their own insecurities... only those who respond so heatedly. You're welcome to disagree, but it's certainly not a "crap" theory...

You would say that it should not be directed to people.. I'd say, why not. When I am getting back home from beauty of Vermont or Utah, and then I see an ugly ( but looking perfectly healthy ) beggar on the street of NYC, I really wish he'd be gone.. Do you?

Maybe I'm just too damned self centered to understand such a conscious concern over the state of others...

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 07:34 AM
Great words, that is a great thing to say. A great thing to understand. No cruelty can be tolerated. All cruelty is the same. All injustice is the same. If you rank it, you allow yourself to be mean, unfair and cruel.

I think many of you, the self-declared strict people of the world, must have had it very easy or are a bit heartless. Sorry, but anyone that has had to overcome an addiction (to food, to cigarrettes, to drugs, to chocolate...) knows what I mean. And this whole "you brought it onto yourself" declarations are not very useful. Trust me, they already know.

Regarding a previous discussion, I think anyone that takes up two seats on a plane should pay for two seats, regardless of personal size, it is only fair, that is not a punishment to fat/tall/mothers' with children, just a fair thing.
well sorry, but: actually I have...I've stopped smoking after years of heavy smoking....in the same years I used to drink too much, every day...but then I decideed I would stop, and I did....full stop....I don't say everyone has to do it, and I've always said (already in my first post....) that there are medical exceptions...but if you don't even try and say it's the fault of your metabolism....wel I suppose I must have a genetical advantage, oh no wait, my father is a drunkard and a cocaineaddict, my mother is obese and my brother is a kloptomaniac my grandparents are alcoholics ....o gee I must have been lucky with my genes an dmy metabolism that none of it came on me...where's that puke smiley again?

Crazy Canuck
Oct 16th, 2003, 07:42 AM
well sorry, but: actually I have...I've stopped smoking after years of heavy smoking....in the same years I used to drink too much, every day...but then I decideed I would stop, and I did....full stop....I don't say everyone has to do it, and I've always said (already in my first post....) that there are medical exceptions...but if you don't even try and say it's the fault of your metabolism....wel I suppose I must have a genetical advantage, oh no wait, my father is a drunkard and a cocaineaddict, my mother is obese and my brother is a kloptomaniac my grandparents are alcoholics ....o gee I must have been lucky with my genes an dmy metabolism that none of it came on me...where's that puke smiley again?
You're so worthy! (where is that CKB smiley when I need it?)

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 07:44 AM
Nonsense.

For instance, obesity is becoming a serious problem in China. It hasn't reached the USA levels but the percentage of obese population is ever growing.

Unless, of course, you consider China a first world country ;)
and when did it happen? hen they stared putting mcDonalds in China :rolleyes:

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 07:46 AM
You're so worthy! (where is that CKB smiley when I need it?)
bla bla bla....

Crazy Canuck
Oct 16th, 2003, 07:49 AM
bla bla bla....
Ha! I'm right and you know it :p

Crazy Canuck
Oct 16th, 2003, 07:50 AM
and when did it happen? hen they stared putting mcDonalds in China :rolleyes:
Do you eat McDonalds? If not - You're so worthy! (looks again for that CKB smiley..)

King Satan
Oct 16th, 2003, 07:52 AM
Ha! I'm right and you know it :p
You're always right, you sexy canuck! :hearts:

DutchieGirl
Oct 16th, 2003, 07:54 AM
actually... I do think she ought to pay more yes....otherwise it's just unfair....she weights something like 50 kilos more than me.....if I would take an extra 50 kilo's with me on the plane I would pay a lot more than a second ticket.....otherwise it's just the slim people paying for the fat people on the plane....
OMG that is absolute fuckin crap! So does that mean if an anorexic gets on a plane they should pay less for a normal ticket, because they don't weigh so much, so why should they pay as much as some who weighs a "normal" amount (and how the hell do you know when to start making someone pay more for how much they weigh)? Have you ever heard of the word DISCRIMINATION??? I think you should look it up in the dictionary!

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:04 AM
Ha! I'm right and you know it :p
No I'm just getting tired of everyone agressing me because they think they have the right too because I say things they don't want to hear....you don't know anything about me but you start judging anyway....

DutchieGirl
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:04 AM
Darling, I am not talking about you, but others who have contributed to this thread. Go back through it. Some of the comments have not been nice at all.

I don't believe in mollycoddlying the issue either, but telling someone, "Hey, fatty, why don't you lost some weight!" doesn't motivate that person to lose weight. In fact, it makes them feel worse. You're right. An assertive approach is needed to help people lose weight, but it is not easy for those people to lose weight if they have specific health issues. That's all I am trying to say.

I agree...my Mum's really bad with the weight issue. She always looks at me, not in disgust, but like not in a nice way and says, "You should lose some weight"...so I turn around and now tell her to get f'ed basically (I do not live with her, thank God). And it's so funny because she can't talk as she is overweight too (neither of us are obese though). And seeing as I started putting on weight when I was 11 or 12, I think some of it is from her and my Dad. I mean they were feeding me! And it's not like I wasn't doing exercise then either - I used to take at least 4 hours of dancing classes a week, plus at lunch time in school we used to run around alot (and in primary school at least we'd either play skippy or elastics, or even netball).

Plus some of it is emotional too - I never was one who fit in much, especially at high school, and my family wasn't the model family either (always fights)...reall,y when you are 13 and you wanna feel good, food makes you feel good. When you're parents are fighting all the time, you don't sit there and think...hmm if I eat this I'm gonna get fat. You think...I wish my parents would stop this, but eating this makes me feel better!

I am currently trying to lose some weight, and I mus say that this thread is REALLY NOT inspiring to anyone who wants to do that!

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:05 AM
Do you eat McDonalds? If not - You're so worthy! (looks again for that CKB smiley..)
SOMETIMES I do....but not 5 times a week eating 3 burgers every time I go.....and then wondering why I'm getting fat and putting it on "my metabolism"

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:07 AM
OMG that is absolute fuckin crap! So does that mean if an anorexic gets on a plane they should pay less for a normal ticket, because they don't weigh so much, so why should they pay as much as some who weighs a "normal" amount (and how the hell do you know when to start making someone pay more for how much they weigh)? Have you ever heard of the word DISCRIMINATION??? I think you should look it up in the dictionary!
yeah right we discussed that already, if you don't understand someone using two seats should pay two seats then you should just go ....yourself....

DutchieGirl
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:08 AM
kart, that can work as well but you have to be careful not to border on sugarcoating with the positivity.

That is crap! You don't have to say like "oh I know dear, it's not your fault you put on weight", but you have to at least be a bit positive. Being negative is hardly gonna help. Seriously, if someone wants to lose weight, and you are negative to them about it, it's likely to put them off - trust me, I've been there - as I wrote before with my mum!

King Satan
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:12 AM
if being negative to try and motivate ppl to lose weight worked, we wouldn't have this problem ;)

DutchieGirl
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:20 AM
the only thing i have against fat people is that in one sitting they eat a meal that can feed a family of five in some third world country.

Do you know what? That is so damn untrue it's funny! I'm fat... yes, everyone should know it by now. I'm trying to do something about it. But you know what, I REALLY have never eaten much. My problem was eating the wrong foods, not eating too much at once. My God, my brother and Dad eat more than me! My brother is always peeved when he comes over here now because we usually have nothing in the fridge that he wants (junk food etc). I can only just handle a meal for one, let alone for 5!

Crazy Canuck
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:22 AM
No I'm just getting tired of everyone agressing me because they think they have the right too because I say things they don't want to hear....you don't know anything about me but you start judging anyway....
oh boohoo.... getting judged by somebody who doesn't know you. It's nice to know that you know how that feels. perhaps you should think about that next time you do it to others.

Excuse me while I wipe away a tear for you...

Crazy Canuck
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:24 AM
SOMETIMES I do....but not 5 times a week eating 3 burgers every time I go.....and then wondering why I'm getting fat and putting it on "my metabolism"
Right, because every "fat" person eats at McDonalds 5 times a week, 3 burgers per meal.

Weren't you just crying about people you don't know judging you? Oh, wah wah, boo fucking hoo, this is me feeling sorry for you *wipes away a tear*

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:26 AM
Right, because every "fat" person eats at McDonalds 5 times a week, 3 burgers per meal.

Weren't you just crying about people you don't know judging you? Oh, wah wah, boo fucking hoo, this is me feeling sorry for you *wipes away a tear*
oh no I already said a few times it was not about every fat person, but only this category....
but it's so easy not to read and bashing people anyway isn't it canuck....

Crazy Canuck
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:29 AM
oh no I already said a few times it was not about every fat person, but only this category....
but it's so easy not to read and bashing people anyway isn't it canuck....
Just ignore me. You know how worthy you are. It must feel so great to elevate yourself above those hideously obese McDonalds tards everyday. The opinion of little old me shouldnt' mean anything... YOU ARE WORTHY. I'm just some "canuck" fucking with you.... I'm not worthy at all. I don't insult fat people nearly enough in order to claim that!

DutchieGirl
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:29 AM
yeah right we discussed that already, if you don't understand someone using two seats should pay two seats then you should just go ....yourself....

Kiss my fat ass! I was catching up from yesterday, and yes I do understand what you mean NOW...after you FINALLY explained yourself after like a page of discussing about the plane seats. But even apoet thought that you meant people should pay for a seat by their weight because *funnily enough* you didn't mention anything about paying for two seats if they takle up two seats till near the end of the discussion! So it's easy to see why people weren't happy with you, besides the fact some of your other comments are just plain bs too!

DutchieGirl
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:34 AM
oh no I already said a few times it was not about every fat person, but only this category....
but it's so easy not to read and bashing people anyway isn't it canuck....

oh OK, so are you saying that if you see a fat person in thre street, you'll go up to them and ask first if they have a medical condition that made them fat before you look at the with disgust, or maybe make some comment to your friends about them? I very much doubt it! You don't break fat people up into "groups", so don't try to make out you are only ragging on the ones who eat McD's 5 times a week.

I don't eat McD's 5 times a week, and I could never eat 3 burgers in one meal, but you're still ragging on me!

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:36 AM
oh OK, so are you saying that if you see a fat person in thre street, you'll go up to them and ask first if they have a medical condition that made them fat before you look at the with disgust, or maybe make some comment to your friends about them? I very much doubt it! You don't break fat people up into "groups", so don't try to make out you are only ragging on the ones who eat McD's 5 times a week.

I don't eat McD's 5 times a week, and I could never eat 3 burgers in one meal, but you're still ragging on me!
nope I said from the beginning I don't look bad at fat people....but the bashing people wouldn't even believe that....just like you....it's getting really annoying....

DutchieGirl
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:37 AM
nope I said from the beginning I don't look bad at fat people....but the bashing people wouldn't even believe that....just like you....it's getting really annoying....
oh no, you just said that it's OK for others to look in a bad way at fat people... close enough, and excuse me, you were the one who came in and started bashing fat people... did you think people weren't gonna say something back? :rolleyes:

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:46 AM
I never bashed...it's just that some people here aren't able to read well....or trying to understand before starting to insult people...just like you did in your first post and then wondering why I reacted agressively on you.....I don't even know why I'm still wasting my time here...just keep on insulting me, I don't care....

King Satan
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:50 AM
Rand, you lil fucker shit motherfucker pansy shithead moron idiot dickface. How are you? :D lol

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 08:53 AM
Rand, you lil fucker shit motherfucker pansy shithead moron idiot dickface. How are you? :D lol
fine thanks, Im just off to go looking for fat people to laugh at them, spit on them and then kicking them....yeah that's me :lol: :rolleyes:

DutchieGirl
Oct 16th, 2003, 09:53 AM
I never bashed...it's just that some people here aren't able to read well....or trying to understand before starting to insult people...just like you did in your first post and then wondering why I reacted agressively on you.....I don't even know why I'm still wasting my time here...just keep on insulting me, I don't care....
yeah...why are you still here? Leave!

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 09:59 AM
yeah...why are you still here? Leave!
you are so funny :lol:

DutchieGirl
Oct 16th, 2003, 10:11 AM
you are so funny :lol:
yeah I know - must be why you keep coming back here when you say you are leaving! :rolleyes:

rand
Oct 16th, 2003, 10:11 AM
yeah I know - must be why you keep coming back here when you say you are leaving! :rolleyes:
what do you expect when saying "yeah...why are you still here? Leave!" :lol:

DutchieGirl
Oct 16th, 2003, 10:18 AM
what do you expect when saying "yeah...why are you still here? Leave!" :lol:
uhh for you to leave like you said you would! :rolleyes: Coz if you were leaving, you wouldn't be coming back in here to read what I said!

doloresc
Oct 16th, 2003, 12:06 PM
Great words, that is a great thing to say. A great thing to understand. No cruelty can be tolerated. All cruelty is the same. All injustice is the same. If you rank it, you allow yourself to be mean, unfair and cruel.

exactly, gallofa. all cruelty really is the same.

I think many of you, the self-declared strict people of the world, must have had it very easy or are a bit heartless. Sorry, but anyone that has had to overcome an addiction (to food, to cigarrettes, to drugs, to chocolate...) knows what I mean. And this whole "you brought it onto yourself" declarations are not very useful. Trust me, they already know.

i agree that to say "you brought it on yourself" isn't constructive (as well as outright rude) but as i said before, i believe in a more assertive (while still supportive) approach. also, i'm referring to those obese people who are unhappy about being overweight and want to change their lives. if one is perfectly happy with being obese, more power to them! but for those who have self-esteem problems stemming primarily from being obese, they (along with a solid support system) need to directly deal with their weight issues.

doloresc
Oct 16th, 2003, 12:16 PM
An easy way to lose weight is to eat less meat. And you save more money too cause meat costs more in supermarkets. Just a thought.

sorry, sam l, but you've been misinformed. while meat can raise your choleterol level, it's not going to contribute to immense obesity. the culprits are carbohydrates (bread, potatoes, rice, pasta). try not eating any of it for a week, while still eating meat, and you'll feel noticeably lighter. your body can break down a chicken breast easily but give it a baked potato or plate of fettuccine, it has to work much harder.

doloresc
Oct 16th, 2003, 12:23 PM
That is crap! You don't have to say like "oh I know dear, it's not your fault you put on weight", but you have to at least be a bit positive. Being negative is hardly gonna help. Seriously, if someone wants to lose weight, and you are negative to them about it, it's likely to put them off - trust me, I've been there - as I wrote before with my mum!

inkyfan, i realize you have to be positive but at the same time you have to be firm and not sugarcoat the situation.

if i downplay the situation (that you want to lose weight) and only utilize "motivational speaker" jargon to encourage you then personally i'm giving you the opportunity to fail. i see nothing wrong with saying "do this for yourself! if you want to lose weight, it CAN happen BUT you have to be committed!" perhaps that could be seen as negative to some of you but i see it as being very positive.

doloresc
Oct 16th, 2003, 12:29 PM
or at least get a gastric bypass and call it a day.

what do all of you think about gastric bypass as options for weight loss?

nbc weatherman al roker, for example, has successfully lost 100 lbs in the past year after having the surgery.

GBFH
Oct 16th, 2003, 12:54 PM
sorry, sam l, but you've been misinformed. while meat can raise your choleterol level, it's not going to contribute to immense obesity. the culprits are carbohydrates (bread, potatoes, rice, pasta). try not eating any of it for a week, while still eating meat, and you'll feel noticeably lighter. your body can break down a chicken breast easily but give it a baked potato or plate of fettuccine, it has to work much harder.

erm, i just personally feel that not eating carhohydrates is VERY bad for you. they're primarily an energy source...and if you cut them out of your diet, that chicken you eat is gonna be used for energy FIRST, and if there's ANYTHING left over, you might get a little protein for muscle-building. do NOT believe anything about the atkins diet. eat carbs, just not a whole bunch of them.

GBFH
Oct 16th, 2003, 12:55 PM
what do all of you think about gastric bypass as options for weight loss?

nbc weatherman al roker, for example, has successfully lost 100 lbs in the past year after having the surgery.

complete crap, and a copout. i'm fat, but i'd never go to such extreme measures to lose weight. it doesn't teach you how to eat properly, and that's what the whole purpose of losing weight SHOULD be.

doloresc
Oct 16th, 2003, 01:03 PM
complete crap, and a copout. i'm fat, but i'd never go to such extreme measures to lose weight. it doesn't teach you how to eat properly, and that's what the whole purpose of losing weight SHOULD be.

i agree that it's a cop-out but if you have the money, why not? ;) personally if i was fat i'd get more satisfaction out of losing the weight on my own as opposed to getting my stomach stapled. it's liking winning a match through a walkover or having your opponent retire.

GBFH
Oct 16th, 2003, 01:04 PM
inkyfan, i realize you have to be positive but at the same time you have to be firm and not sugarcoat the situation.

if i downplay the situation (that you want to lose weight) and only utilize "motivational speaker" jargon to encourage you then personally i'm giving you the opportunity to fail. i see nothing wrong with saying "do this for yourself! if you want to lose weight, it CAN happen BUT you have to be committed!" perhaps that could be seen as negative to some of you but i see it as being very positive.

i'm pretty much resigned to the fact that i'll never be able to lose weight while i live at home. if i so much as hint that i'd like mom to buy some healthier foods she gets all huffy and puffy, "I just can't take this. your father wants one thing, and you want another. i just can't take this." (my mom's a major drama queen).

or maybe i'll steal the credit card and hide the healthy stuff in my room. 'cause ALL she buys is junk food. her reasoning, of course...was that when she was growing up, her parents never had any pop or candy in the house, and when she left home she ballooned out...and that if we had it at home, we'd be less likely to eat it. erm, WRONG! lmao.

i'm 21 now, so it's my responsibility to get the weight off...and i'm workin' on it. lost a little bit of weight already. but it's not easy, and usually, when people give me motivational speeches, i don't take them very seriously. it's always from people who've never had a weight problem and have no idea what kind of emotional trauma i, or people like me, have experienced due to our appearance. i could bore you all to tears with some of the stuff people in junior high and high school did to me that i STILL want to cry over.

gotta give a shout-out to inkyfan. i'm in the same boat, and good luck :)

GBFH
Oct 16th, 2003, 01:05 PM
i agree that it's a cop-out but if you have the money, why not? ;) personally if i was fat i'd get more satisfaction out of losing the weight on my own as opposed to getting my stomach stapled. it's liking winning a match through a walkover or having your opponent retire.

lmao, i have (erm, i should say, my PARENTS) the money...but i'd never do it. it's just like you say, an easy way out.

Kart
Oct 16th, 2003, 01:42 PM
Gastric bypass is a bit of an extreme measure but I think it could still be an option in the morbidly obese ONLY - of course, I'd imagine it's not without its risks for malabsorption, hence malnutrition syndromes which presumably defeats the point of trying to lose weight for health reasons.

gentenaire
Oct 16th, 2003, 01:47 PM
Gastric bypass makes more sense than liposuction. I agree with Kart, it should be an option for the obese with serious health problems.

Princess Fiona
Oct 16th, 2003, 02:55 PM
okay I agree to a point. Look if these chicks were ugly as sin and went out and did this I would cheer them on. But being fat is not like being ugly. Being obese in my opinion is like bad hygiene. Would you go up to someone who hadn't bathed in a month and praised them and hi fived them and say, "go on girl you look how you want to look! You don't have to wash nothing! Stank on girlfriend stank on!"

PLEASE!

Its not healthy! Just like weighing the size of a bengal tiger is not healthy!!!!

Truly I am not trying to be evil. This issue is dear to me because my own mother is overweight and shes getting older and if she does not lose this weight it will go bad for her. I've spoken to her doctors and whats in the wings is not pretty. SHE STILL WONT DO A DAMN THING. She wont jog with me. She wont work out with me. She wont even freaking cook the healthy recipes I dig up for her!!!!

Its like she wants to die of a heart attack or god forbid diabetes which is so awful. I'm on my last nerve with her and my sister and brother have to deal with her because I'll start yelling and screaming.

I don't really think you can compare being obese to bad hygiene... Some people are made that way!! Losing weight is very very VERY difficult and it doesn't help when overweight/obese people are treated like inferior people... And some people abuse food because they are unhappy... It can be very complex...

GBFH and inkyfan, I send good vibes to you... :) When I was a teenager I was quite overweight (I was very overweight at one stage) and some things that people said hurt me. I felt so loathsome and ugly and the teens are a notoriously hard time of course... I remember covering the mirrors once because I didn't want to look at myself!! I really, really hated myself. I'm older now and I'm not as big as I was - I'm not really 'slim' but I'm okay with my weight. I think things are better now I am older. I think my body is a little more settled now... :) (I used to go to the gym but not any more... *sigh* I should REALLY start to go again... *scolds self* ;) ) I still feel really ugly and worthless at times though - it's hard for sure but I am luckier than a lot of people...

Cybelle, I wish your mother luck too...

doloresc
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:17 PM
i'm pretty much resigned to the fact that i'll never be able to lose weight while i live at home. if i so much as hint that i'd like mom to buy some healthier foods she gets all huffy and puffy, "I just can't take this. your father wants one thing, and you want another. i just can't take this." (my mom's a major drama queen).

or maybe i'll steal the credit card and hide the healthy stuff in my room. 'cause ALL she buys is junk food. her reasoning, of course...was that when she was growing up, her parents never had any pop or candy in the house, and when she left home she ballooned out...and that if we had it at home, we'd be less likely to eat it. erm, WRONG! lmao.

i'm 21 now, so it's my responsibility to get the weight off...and i'm workin' on it. lost a little bit of weight already. but it's not easy, and usually, when people give me motivational speeches, i don't take them very seriously. it's always from people who've never had a weight problem and have no idea what kind of emotional trauma i, or people like me, have experienced due to our appearance. i could bore you all to tears with some of the stuff people in junior high and high school did to me that i STILL want to cry over.

gotta give a shout-out to inkyfan. i'm in the same boat, and good luck :)

thanks for your honesty, gbfh! i wish you all the best and here's hoping you're able to move out some time in the near future. just remember during those dismal times that you have options. perhaps you just haven't taken the time to explore them. best wishes! :)

doloresc
Oct 16th, 2003, 04:25 PM
erm, i just personally feel that not eating carhohydrates is VERY bad for you. they're primarily an energy source...and if you cut them out of your diet, that chicken you eat is gonna be used for energy FIRST, and if there's ANYTHING left over, you might get a little protein for muscle-building. do NOT believe anything about the atkins diet. eat carbs, just not a whole bunch of them.

gbfh, carbs are fine but to eat 2 or more carbs in ONE meal is a very bad idea. for example, in the united states, if you go out for breakfast and have pancakes (carbs), it comes with potatoes (carbs) and toast (carbs). that's a lot of artery clogging AND a lot for your body to break down.

also, you're right, gbfh, you need the crabs for energy but if you're not exercising then the carbs are going to waste and you'll pack on the pounds. actually, you will put on more weight than you would if you were just eating meat and vegetables.

i don't follow the atkins diet (and other low/no carb diets) but i do know the effect carbs has on you, both positive and negative.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 16th, 2003, 09:03 PM
rand, you're so worthy :hearts: I aspire to be just like you :hearts: I'm going to try by best to remind myself EVERY day that I am better than everybody heavier than I am :hearts:

ys
Oct 16th, 2003, 09:04 PM
rand, you're so worthy :hearts: I aspire to be just like you :hearts: I'm going to try by best to remind myself EVERY day that I am better than everybody heavier than I am :hearts:

No, I am heavier than you..

Ballbuster
Oct 16th, 2003, 09:24 PM
No, I am heavier than you..


It figures. Fat and depressed, you know they go hand in hand.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 16th, 2003, 09:38 PM
No, I am heavier than you..
True, but you're also quite a bit taller.

ys
Oct 16th, 2003, 09:44 PM
True, but you're also quite a bit taller.

You didn't have a "taller" variable in your equation. ;)

LostInThe80s
Oct 16th, 2003, 09:51 PM
gastric bypass is good cos fat people will get full got a lot faster and on very little food.

liposuction isn't really any good cos fat people are losing 3 pounds at best and then there's all this excess saggy skin.

ys
Oct 16th, 2003, 09:57 PM
gastric bypass is good cos fat people will get full got a lot faster and on very little food.

liposuction isn't really any good cos fat people are losing 3 pounds at best and then there's all this excess saggy skin.

But liposuction produces extremely valuable byproducts. Liposuction is definitely better.

LostInThe80s
Oct 16th, 2003, 10:00 PM
But liposuction produces extremely valuable byproducts. Liposuction is definitely better.

rotflmao!

gentenaire
Oct 16th, 2003, 10:13 PM
i don't follow the atkins diet (and other low/no carb diets) but i do know the effect carbs has on you, both positive and negative.

I don't believe in any diet that says you should stop eating one particular food group. Balance is the word.

LOL@ys :lol:

Miss Thang
Oct 16th, 2003, 11:05 PM
Shout out to y'all who showin some respect up in this piece. :worship:

I weigh 218 lbs and I'm a size 14. I been fat all my life. My family done tried puttin me on all kinda diets and I even joined Nutri System but like I effed up cuz I aint got no will power. :o I've been livin with my sista and her kids since February and she put me on a diet and I actually lost a little wieght (6 lbs) but it's so hard. Most a y'all don't know! I just can't give up the food I like and the way my sista cook I'm always hungry cuz she cook more healthy stuff. I tell y'all folk been crackin on me bout my weight since I was a kid and I end up turnin to food cuz it made me feel better. I wanna lose weight but I'm too lazy to lose it so I gotta accept that I'm always be fat for my whole life. Yeah peeps look at me all twisted and ish but that aint my problem. I aint done ish to them so aint reason gotta look at me like "you fat pig" when I'm just mindin my own business. :rolleyes:

Props to all the fat peeps cuz I know how y'all feel! :kiss:

Sam L
Oct 17th, 2003, 02:13 AM
sorry, sam l, but you've been misinformed. while meat can raise your choleterol level, it's not going to contribute to immense obesity. the culprits are carbohydrates (bread, potatoes, rice, pasta). try not eating any of it for a week, while still eating meat, and you'll feel noticeably lighter. your body can break down a chicken breast easily but give it a baked potato or plate of fettuccine, it has to work much harder.
Dolores, I don't know about been misinformed, but I'm talking from experience. Not eating meat has made me feel better, lighter and feel like my body can move faster to anything. Carbs are essential to your diet. Listen to bajangurl, above. :) The important thing is, eat carbs but exercise, LOTS! Cut down on meat cause it'll make you heavy, feel sluggish. It prevents you from wanting to exercise and weighs you down.

This is from experience and I have talked to a lot of people who can confirm this.

DutchieGirl
Oct 17th, 2003, 02:36 AM
sorry, sam l, but you've been misinformed. while meat can raise your choleterol level, it's not going to contribute to immense obesity. the culprits are carbohydrates (bread, potatoes, rice, pasta). try not eating any of it for a week, while still eating meat, and you'll feel noticeably lighter. your body can break down a chicken breast easily but give it a baked potato or plate of fettuccine, it has to work much harder.

Actually, that's no true! Meat has HEAPS of fat in it! One sausage has about 10 grms of fat in it, and fat it harder to work off than carbo's! So yes, if you eat too much meat, then it can contribute to obesity! If you are eating meat every day for lunch and dinner, then that's probably gonna take up most of your daily recommended fat allowance - and that's not leaving much room for anything else you might eat as well! Carbo's are not bad if you don't go stupid with them, but you need carbo's to have energy!

DutchieGirl
Oct 17th, 2003, 02:40 AM
inkyfan, i realize you have to be positive but at the same time you have to be firm and not sugarcoat the situation.

if i downplay the situation (that you want to lose weight) and only utilize "motivational speaker" jargon to encourage you then personally i'm giving you the opportunity to fail. i see nothing wrong with saying "do this for yourself! if you want to lose weight, it CAN happen BUT you have to be committed!" perhaps that could be seen as negative to some of you but i see it as being very positive.WHy do you have to be firm? If they wanna lose the weight for themselves, then why do they even need you butting your nose in? Seriously, if someone (a friend, or family member) came up and said to me what you suggested, I'd turn around and tell them to mind their own freakin business!

And how is being positive towards them giving them a chance to fail?

DutchieGirl
Oct 17th, 2003, 02:44 AM
gotta give a shout-out to inkyfan. i'm in the same boat, and good luck :)

Thanks man (I'm assume you are male) ;). Have you visted the dieting and exercise thread before? You should! A few of us in there are trying to lose weight, and sharing our problems/successes! :D

DutchieGirl
Oct 17th, 2003, 02:47 AM
I don't really think you can compare being obese to bad hygiene... Some people are made that way!! Losing weight is very very VERY difficult and it doesn't help when overweight/obese people are treated like inferior people... And some people abuse food because they are unhappy... It can be very complex...

GBFH and inkyfan, I send good vibes to you... :) When I was a teenager I was quite overweight (I was very overweight at one stage) and some things that people said hurt me. I felt so loathsome and ugly and the teens are a notoriously hard time of course... I remember covering the mirrors once because I didn't want to look at myself!! I really, really hated myself. I'm older now and I'm not as big as I was - I'm not really 'slim' but I'm okay with my weight. I think things are better now I am older. I think my body is a little more settled now... :) (I used to go to the gym but not any more... *sigh* I should REALLY start to go again... *scolds self* ;) ) I still feel really ugly and worthless at times though - it's hard for sure but I am luckier than a lot of people...

Cybelle, I wish your mother luck too...

Thanks Fiona! I'm glad you are able to feel more confortable with your body now! :D

GBFH
Oct 17th, 2003, 02:48 AM
WHy do you have to be firm? If they wanna lose the weight for themselves, then why do they even need you butting your nose in? Seriously, if someone (a friend, or family member) came up and said to me what you suggested, I'd turn around and tell them to mind their own freakin business!

And how is being positive towards them giving them a chance to fail?

exactly. everytime my mom, dad, or one of my sisters makes a comment about what i'm eating, or that i should lose weight, i tend to think they're doing it to be self-righteous, and i'm more likely to tell them to screw off. noone else in my family is thin, and i certainly don't tell them what to eat.

if my family REALLY wanted to help me, they'd listen when i tell them what kind of food i want them to buy, and would think about their OWN health instead of feeling the need to scrutinize mine all the time.

GBFH
Oct 17th, 2003, 02:50 AM
Thanks man (I'm assume you are male) ;). Have you visted the dieting and exercise thread before? You should! A few of us in there are trying to lose weight, and sharing our problems/successes! :D

you're welcome ;) i'm female, by the way

and yeah, i've been in there a couple of times...i try not to broadcast the fact i'm trying to lose weight, because it adds so much pressure, you know? and it'll take a year, easy, to lose all of the pounds i've packed on. *sigh* oh well, you reap what you sow, ya know?

DutchieGirl
Oct 17th, 2003, 02:51 AM
I don't believe in any diet that says you should stop eating one particular food group. Balance is the word.

LOL@ys :lol:

Amen to that!

DutchieGirl
Oct 17th, 2003, 02:54 AM
Dolores, I don't know about been misinformed, but I'm talking from experience. Not eating meat has made me feel better, lighter and feel like my body can move faster to anything. Carbs are essential to your diet. Listen to bajangurl, above. :) The important thing is, eat carbs but exercise, LOTS! Cut down on meat cause it'll make you heavy, feel sluggish. It prevents you from wanting to exercise and weighs you down.

This is from experience and I have talked to a lot of people who can confirm this.I totally agree! When I eat carbs, then I feel like I have energy to burn, and so I get on my bike, but eating meat doesn't give me the same feeling. Before I started looking at what I was really eating, I didn't realise meat had so much fat in it too! I nearly died when I found out a sausage has like 10gms fat in it. Even the low fat sausages that I started buying have about 5-6gms fat in them! :eek: Chicken is a bit better, but it doesn't give you alot of energy, and doesn't make me feel full like carbs do!

GBFH
Oct 17th, 2003, 02:57 AM
chicken doesn't give you energy because it's primarily a protein source...it's terrible on your liver and kidneys to eat a lot of protein. we eat a LOT of meat at home...but mom cooks the stuff that dad likes, and he doesn't like veggies much. *sigh* i just need to move my ass out. or take over shopping duties. you should see my dad when i drink soy milk...he makes the funniest face :lol:

DutchieGirl
Oct 17th, 2003, 02:58 AM
exactly. everytime my mom, dad, or one of my sisters makes a comment about what i'm eating, or that i should lose weight, i tend to think they're doing it to be self-righteous, and i'm more likely to tell them to screw off. noone else in my family is thin, and i certainly don't tell them what to eat.

if my family REALLY wanted to help me, they'd listen when i tell them what kind of food i want them to buy, and would think about their OWN health instead of feeling the need to scrutinize mine all the time.

Yeah! It must be hard when your family won't buy healthier foods. I was a bit cautious about telling my Dad I wanted to lose weight because then it's like he expects me too, but at least ow he buys healthier stuff, and he will spend a little extra to maybe get some juice that I prefer if he thinks it's gonna help me! ;) It's a pity your family won't help you out! :(

DutchieGirl
Oct 17th, 2003, 03:02 AM
you're welcome ;) i'm female, by the way

and yeah, i've been in there a couple of times...i try not to broadcast the fact i'm trying to lose weight, because it adds so much pressure, you know? and it'll take a year, easy, to lose all of the pounds i've packed on. *sigh* oh well, you reap what you sow, ya know?
:o Sorry... isn't it funny how on this board if we don't know what sex a poster is, we tend to think "male"? (I'm female too - in case you didn't know). ;)

I understand about the pressure thing - I felt that when when I told my Dad - and sometimes it has been bad, like if I'm having a "lazy morning" he'll ask me when I'm gonna cycle or something, and they it's kinda like "I'll cycle when I want, so butt out"! ;)

But I have found the other thread to be useful because it's other people like me, who are trying to lose weight, and it's been good for the support and idea's! I mean if someone else is trying to lose weight at the same time as you, then it's good to support each other. I just hate the thin people who come up and tell you then you should lose weight! ;)

DutchieGirl
Oct 17th, 2003, 03:06 AM
chicken doesn't give you energy because it's primarily a protein source...it's terrible on your liver and kidneys to eat a lot of protein. we eat a LOT of meat at home...but mom cooks the stuff that dad likes, and he doesn't like veggies much. *sigh* i just need to move my ass out. or take over shopping duties. you should see my dad when i drink soy milk...he makes the funniest face :lol:Our family has never been real big with veggies. But I think part of the problem was that we all liked different veggies.

For example: I hate corn and pumpkin. My Dad and brother love corn and Dad will eat pumpkin. My brother hated carrots, and I like carrots. Dad doesn't like cauliflower or broccoli, while I love those! :rolleyes: You can see what a hassle it was cooking for 4 of us (which was made even more fun by Mum being a vegetarian and Dad not eating cheese). ;)

But now it's just me and my Dad, and we basically make our own meals anyway! ;) Which helps alot!

Ij ust have to say: EWW Soy milk! :p

GBFH
Oct 17th, 2003, 03:07 AM
Yeah! It must be hard when your family won't buy healthier foods. I was a bit cautious about telling my Dad I wanted to lose weight because then it's like he expects me too, but at least ow he buys healthier stuff, and he will spend a little extra to maybe get some juice that I prefer if he thinks it's gonna help me! ;) It's a pity your family won't help you out! :(

you're very fortunate. the thing that really gets me is my mom's diabetic, and won't buy healthier stuff. if my dad wanted to improve his diet, then it'd be a totally different story, i'm sure :rolleyes:

GBFH
Oct 17th, 2003, 03:10 AM
:o Sorry... isn't it funny how on this board if we don't know what sex a poster is, we tend to think "male"? (I'm female too - in case you didn't know). ;)

I understand about the pressure thing - I felt that when when I told my Dad - and sometimes it has been bad, like if I'm having a "lazy morning" he'll ask me when I'm gonna cycle or something, and they it's kinda like "I'll cycle when I want, so butt out"! ;)

But I have found the other thread to be useful because it's other people like me, who are trying to lose weight, and it's been good for the support and idea's! I mean if someone else is trying to lose weight at the same time as you, then it's good to support each other. I just hate the thin people who come up and tell you then you should lose weight! ;)

lmao, it's cool. nearly everyone thinks i'm a gay male at first ;) and yeah, i knew you're a chick. i'm amanda, by the way. nice to meet ya :wavey:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! yeah, i don't get where skinny people get off being so self-righteous :rolleyes:

GBFH
Oct 17th, 2003, 03:12 AM
Our family has never been real big with veggies. But I think part of the problem was that we all liked different veggies.

For example: I hate corn and pumpkin. My Dad and brother love corn and Dad will eat pumpkin. My brother hated carrots, and I like carrots. Dad doesn't like cauliflower or broccoli, while I love those! :rolleyes: You can see what a hassle it was cooking for 4 of us (which was made even more fun by Mum being a vegetarian and Dad not eating cheese). ;)

But now it's just me and my Dad, and we basically make our own meals anyway! ;) Which helps alot!

Ij ust have to say: EWW Soy milk! :p

lmao! sounds just like my family. the only veggies any of us seem to agree on are corn and potatoes...both high in starch, lmao. and i love spinach, and brocolli, green beans, peas...and i'll force down a carrot or two if i must. we just don't get a lot of variety around here.

lmao! soy = good stuff :p

DutchieGirl
Oct 17th, 2003, 03:21 AM
you're very fortunate. the thing that really gets me is my mom's diabetic, and won't buy healthier stuff. if my dad wanted to improve his diet, then it'd be a totally different story, i'm sure :rolleyes:
:eek: Diabetic Mum and she doesn't eat good! One of my friends is diabetic, plus both of my Mum's parents are too. It's horrible (I'll probably get late onset, I'm betting). :fiery:

DutchieGirl
Oct 17th, 2003, 03:24 AM
lmao, it's cool. nearly everyone thinks i'm a gay male at first ;) and yeah, i knew you're a chick. i'm amanda, by the way. nice to meet ya :wavey:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! yeah, i don't get where skinny people get off being so self-righteous :rolleyes:

Well, at least I didn't thin kyou were gay! ;) I'm Sarah! :wavey:

But skinny people are so much better than us, didn't you know that? ;) *sarcasm*

DutchieGirl
Oct 17th, 2003, 03:25 AM
lmao! sounds just like my family. the only veggies any of us seem to agree on are corn and potatoes...both high in starch, lmao. and i love spinach, and brocolli, green beans, peas...and i'll force down a carrot or two if i must. we just don't get a lot of variety around here.

lmao! soy = good stuff :p

mmm potatoes! :worship: ;) High in carbo's too! ;) :sad: They are my fave veggie, which sucks coz I can't eat too many of them! ;)

GBFH
Oct 17th, 2003, 03:26 AM
:eek: Diabetic Mum and she doesn't eat good! One of my friends is diabetic, plus both of my Mum's parents are too. It's horrible (I'll probably get late onset, I'm betting). :fiery:

she tries too eat better...but after her salad, she digs into half a pack of sugar-free cookies, which are LOADED with fat. i don't say anything because, hey, who am i to judge, right?

yeup...i'm headed for type II diabetes if i don't get on track and shed the pounds...but my more immediate concern is to get a job. doesn't matter how well i perform in school, if i'm not thin, i ain't getting the position. it sucks, but...:shrug:

GBFH
Oct 17th, 2003, 03:28 AM
Well, at least I didn't thin kyou were gay! ;) I'm Sarah! :wavey:

But skinny people are so much better than us, didn't you know that? ;) *sarcasm*

lmao!!!! thank you, sarah! :lol:

oh, don't i know it? if i rode the bus, i'd be sure to haul up my lardass and give them BOTH of my seats.

GBFH
Oct 17th, 2003, 03:29 AM
mmm potatoes! :worship: ;) High in carbo's too! ;) :sad: They are my fave veggie, which sucks coz I can't eat too many of them! ;)

oh yeah....doesn't it blow that EVERYTHING that tastes good is so bad for you? it's not fair :mad: