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shap_half
Oct 8th, 2003, 11:55 PM
Hey all!

How would you guys rank the top ten against the top ten in terms of their tennis. Like who has the best and most effective forehand against the top ten?
Also for Service Game, Return Game, Forehand, Backhand, and Net Game. How does the top ten stack up against the top ten in those categories?

bandabou
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:06 AM
Forehand: Serena
Serve: Serena
Return: Serena
Backhand: Venus

Knizzle
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:09 AM
Hey all!

How would you guys rank the top ten against the top ten in terms of their tennis. Like who has the best and most effective forehand against the top ten?
Also for Service Game, Return Game, Forehand, Backhand, and Net Game. How does the top ten stack up against the top ten in those categories?

Forehand: Serena
Backhand: Venus
Serve game: This is a tough one, but I have to say Serena.(Doesn't the WTA or ITF have stats on service games held and return games won??)
Return game: Serena
Net game: Venus

RYNJ
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:10 AM
Serena, Jennifer, Lindays, Kim have good forehands

Venus, Justine, Lindsay, Myskina, Amielie have good backhands

I think all the women in the top ten have good returns given an easy serve they just whack it.

Lindsay, Justine, Venus, Chanda, Amelie have the best net game

I dont want to rank because I think on any given day it can be off or on

switz
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:14 AM
net-game or volleys?? venus has the best net game but i thinks it's highly debatable whether or not she has the best volleys.

bandabou
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:15 AM
Forehand: Serena
Backhand: Venus
Serve game: This is a tough one, but I have to say Serena.(Doesn't the WTA or ITF have stats on service games held and return games won??)
Return game: Serena
Net game: Venus

I was looking for that too....but i found only for the atp.

Knizzle
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:15 AM
net-game or volleys?? venus has the best net game but i thinks it's highly debatable whether or not she has the best volleys.

He said most effective net game against the top ten.

bandabou
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:17 AM
net-game or volleys?? venus has the best net game but i thinks it's highly debatable whether or not she has the best volleys.

But she wins percentage-wise the most points at the net and that´s all that matters.

LeonHart
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:18 AM
Forehand: Serena
Backhand: Justine
Serve: Serena
Return: Serena
Net game: Justine

Knizzle
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:19 AM
Forehand: Serena
Backhand: Justine
Serve: Serena
Return: Serena
Net game: Justine

Justine's net game most effective against the top ten??

bandabou
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:20 AM
Justine's net game most effective against the top ten??

Nope! Re-watch that Wimbledon semi.....Serena was passing the girl at most at will. I´m wondering if she even saw the passing shots coming.

switz
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:21 AM
But she wins percentage-wise the most points at the net and that´s all that matters.

i agree, it's just that sometimes people cloud these issues. she probably doesn't win the most percentage wise, because she comes in a lot and actually loses sometimes whereas someone like serena might come in just to finish a point and thus rarely lose, but that's being petty.

Knizzle
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:22 AM
Nope! Re-watch that Wimbledon semi.....Serena was passing the girl at most at will. I´m wondering if she even saw the passing shots coming.

I thought about that too, but I wasn't going to bring it up because it was just one match.

shap_half
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:22 AM
I'm talking about top ten vs. top ten, just making sure everyone understands just in case there was any discrepancy over it.

Jericho
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:22 AM
Forehand - Capriati
Backhand - Venus
Serve - Serena
Return - Davenport
Net Game - Venus

Knizzle
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:23 AM
i agree, it's just that sometimes people cloud these issues. she probably doesn't win the most percentage wise, because she comes in a lot and actually loses sometimes whereas someone like serena might come in just to finish a point and thus rarely lose, but that's being petty.

I think Clijsters and Davy may be the ones with the best percentage, but after them it's Venus. Venus wins the most total points though because she approaches more.

shap_half
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:24 AM
Service: Serena, Justine, Lindsay
Return: Serena, Lindsay, Justine
Forehand: Jen, Serena, Elena
Backhand: Justine, Venus, Lindsay
Net Game: Justine, Venus, Serena

Jericho
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:24 AM
i agree, it's just that sometimes people cloud these issues. she probably doesn't win the most percentage wise, because she comes in a lot and actually loses sometimes whereas someone like serena might come in just to finish a point and thus rarely lose, but that's being petty.

actually she goes to net a lot AND has a high percentage... ;)

Knizzle
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:26 AM
Forehand - Capriati
Backhand - Venus
Serve - Serena
Return - Davenport
Net Game - Venus

Remember this is supposed to be most effective against the TOP TEN. Cappy's forehand?? Davy's return?? Well okay, if that's how you see it. You're honest. ;)

switz
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:29 AM
actually she goes to net a lot AND has a high percentage... ;)

yeah i said she loses SOMETIMES. this thread is about against the top 10, not against players ranked 80 in the world. against players like serena and kim venus' percentage at net is not as high as their groundstrokes and passing ability is so much stronger. it's still very effective, and it's still the best in the top 10 however.

switz
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:31 AM
Remember this is supposed to be most effective against the TOP TEN. Cappy's forehand?? Davy's return?? Well okay, if that's how you see it. You're honest. ;)

i know, i was shocked to when i saw someone other than venus and serena in a williams fan's list ;)

Knizzle
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:32 AM
i know, i was shocked to when i saw someone other than venus and serena in a williams fan's list ;)

I know, but I was truly honest in my list. Their games are the most effective against the top ten, that's why they beat the top players all the time.

bandabou
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:35 AM
I know, but I was truly honest in my list. Their games are the most effective against the top ten, that's why they beat the top players all the time.

Exactly.....they win the most, so their games must be the most effective.

Brandon85
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:35 AM
jennifer is best at everything except closing out matches.

bandabou
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:36 AM
jennifer is best at everything except closing out matches.

:lol: ! Too bad, because that is the most important part.

switz
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:43 AM
Exactly.....they win the most, so their games must be the most effective.

yes their games must be the most effective, but that doesn't mean that they are necessary the best at every facet of the game. steffi graf rarely lossed to others in the top 10 but nobody said she had the best-backhand, hingis never lost but noody said she had the best forehand.

i don't want to get into an argument, because ultimately i probably agree that they do everything the most effectively. i just don't agree with your comment

Knizzle
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:52 AM
yes their games must be the most effective, but that doesn't mean that they are necessary the best at every facet of the game. steffi graf rarely lossed to others in the top 10 but nobody said she had the best-backhand, hingis never lost but noody said she had the best forehand.

i don't want to get into an argument, because ultimately i probably agree that they do everything the most effectively. i just don't agree with your comment

The difference is that Graf is only one person. It just so happens that one sister or the other has covered all five bases.

switz
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:54 AM
The difference is that Graf is only one person. It just so happens that one sister or the other has covered all five bases.

i wasn't disagreeing with the fact that they have the best shots, i was disagreeing with the sentiment that because they win they therefore have the most effective individual strokes. i just think a debate like this requires a little more analysis than that. it's not a big deal

Martian KC
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:55 AM
This thread was just asking for it. You won't get nonbiased answers anyone on this board.

Forehand- Serena
Backhand- Justine
Serve- Serena
Volley- Justine
Return- Lindsay

Knizzle
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:56 AM
i wasn't disagreeing with the fact that they have the best shots, i was disagreeing with the sentiment that because they win they therefore have the most effective individual strokes. i just think a debate like this requires a little more analysis than that. it's not a big deal

I know you are trying to avoid an argument, but I'm just here to discuss not to argue.

Jericho
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:56 AM
i know, i was shocked to when i saw someone other than venus and serena in a williams fan's list ;)

Why so shocking?

Capriati's forehand is what keeps her in matches especially against serena, where she can match serena's forehand and sometimes even break it down...serena's forehand goes off sometimes, especially when someone challenges it

Davenport, IMO, has the better return able to attack serena's serve...and it think that lindsay has the best groundies ever...capriati's return would come second and then serena's (she gets too anxious at times)

Venus has the better and most effective backhand than justine does...ex: championships at Wimbledon 01', vs. Capriati US Open SF 01', vs. Clijsters this year at wimbledon, against serena which is the weapon she uses to stay in matches...I dont recall a match where justine's backhand won her a match

shap_half
Oct 9th, 2003, 12:58 AM
Jenn's forehand is lethal. She might not win all the time but her forehand is still very effective and get her out of trouble. Her forehand is just dangerous and heavy. Even though she hasn't been winning her forehand still gets her in winning positions.

kyk710
Oct 9th, 2003, 01:01 AM
Chanda's forehand is very dangerous. Just ask Serena or Jenny ;)

bandabou
Oct 9th, 2003, 01:04 AM
Why so shocking?

Capriati's forehand is what keeps her in matches especially against serena, where she can match serena's forehand and sometimes even break it down...serena's forehand goes off sometimes, especially when someone challenges it

Davenport, IMO, has the better return able to attack serena's serve...and it think that lindsay has the best groundies ever...capriati's return would come second and then serena's (she gets too anxious at times)

Venus has the better and most effective backhand than justine does...ex: championships at Wimbledon 01', vs. Capriati US Open SF 01', vs. Clijsters this year at wimbledon, against serena which is the weapon she uses to stay in matches...I dont recall a match where justine's backhand won her a match

Uhmm, Lindsay´s return may be good.....but it has only helped her win twice in 11 matches against Serena.

Jen´s forehand may be good and even challenging to Serena, but how long can she stay with that. You can only stay with Serena´s forehand for so long.

Lindsay´s groundies are the best ever. Too bad she is slower than a turtle.

bandabou
Oct 9th, 2003, 01:06 AM
yes their games must be the most effective, but that doesn't mean that they are necessary the best at every facet of the game. steffi graf rarely lossed to others in the top 10 but nobody said she had the best-backhand, hingis never lost but noody said she had the best forehand.

i don't want to get into an argument, because ultimately i probably agree that they do everything the most effectively. i just don't agree with your comment

That´s true....but the thing is that they may not have the best shots, they don´t the have any that is the weakest either...so that balances it and makes it effective.

Knizzle
Oct 9th, 2003, 01:10 AM
The thing about Cappy's forehand is that she doesn't hit many winners with it against the top players. Just about everyone else in the top ten hits more forehand winners than Cappy. Hers is not the most effective against the top players.

LeonHart
Oct 9th, 2003, 01:12 AM
Nope! Re-watch that Wimbledon semi.....Serena was passing the girl at most at will. I´m wondering if she even saw the passing shots coming.
Well, Justine sure comes in alot vs. Cappy or Kim, this is vs. top ten correct? Not SERENA.

Knizzle
Oct 9th, 2003, 01:15 AM
Well, Justine sure comes in alot vs. Cappy or Kim, this is vs. top ten correct? Not SERENA.

But Venus comes in against everybody with success. No??

Trish101
Oct 9th, 2003, 01:31 AM
Thats not true, Jennifer repedtly hit winners against both Lindsay and KJustine when she faced both of them in those close matches, at least 25+ forhand winners in both matches!

Jens forhand is more lethal than Serenas, Serena takes more chances, thats all, and that may seem why Serena hits more winners on her forhand, but Jens forhand is consistently better than Serenas on every level, she doesnt take as many risks though.

bandabou
Oct 9th, 2003, 01:34 AM
Thats not true, Jennifer repedtly hit winners against both Lindsay and KJustine when she faced both of them in those close matches, at least 25+ forhand winners in both matches!

Jens forhand is more lethal than Serenas, Serena takes more chances, thats all, and that may seem why Serena hits more winners on her forhand, but Jens forhand is consistently better than Serenas on every level, she doesnt take as many risks though.

then she´s a fool no?! If it´s her best shot and she doesn´t use it to her advantage....

bandabou
Oct 9th, 2003, 01:36 AM
Well, Justine sure comes in alot vs. Cappy or Kim, this is vs. top ten correct? Not SERENA.

People said that Justine had the best net-game and that isn´t true imo. Her netgame is overrated imo, because she doesn´t win most of the time at against the top 10.

Martian KC
Oct 9th, 2003, 01:44 AM
JUSTINE has the most natural net game. You can see that, it's just hard for a girl of her stature to come in on shots.

pReUrBrIyN
Oct 9th, 2003, 01:48 AM
Forehand - Rubin, Serena, Venus, Jennifer, Lindsay
Backhand - Venus, Justine
Serve - Serena
Return - Serena
Net Game - Venus, Rubin, and Serena

Jericho
Oct 9th, 2003, 01:50 AM
Uhmm, Lindsay´s return may be good.....but it has only helped her win twice in 11 matches against Serena.

Jen´s forehand may be good and even challenging to Serena, but how long can she stay with that. You can only stay with Serena´s forehand for so long.

Lindsay´s groundies are the best ever. Too bad she is slower than a turtle.

returns dont win you matches obviously...but davenport, capriati, and venus are more likely to break serena than any other person

And about your forehand argument...that really didnt make sense so i dont understand...

Yeah too bad Lindsay is slow otherwise she would be a deadlier player, but of course i was talking about groundstrokes not speed ;)

Trish101
Oct 9th, 2003, 02:04 AM
Return of serve -1)Serena,2)Capriati (ask Johnny Mac and Chrissy, proffessionals dont lie!)3)Venus,4)Davenport,5)Clijsters

Backhand-1)Venus,2)Henin,3)Serena,4)Davenport,5) Capriati ect

Forhand-1)Jennifer,2)Serena,3)Davenport,4)Clijsters

Volleys-1)William Sisters, 2)Davenport,3) Henin, 4)Mauresmo

Serve-1)Venus, 2)Serena,3) Davenport,4)Capriati, 5)Henin,6) Clijsters,7)Mauresmo...ect ect

Speed-1)Serena&Jennifer tied 2)Henin&Clijsters ect ect 10)Lindsay last

Intencity-1) Serena&Jennifer...those two are mega bitches on court, and when they battle each other, WATCH OUT!

Mental Strength- this is a 4 way tie! 1) Serena, Kim, Henin, Venus (at one time id have put Jennifer @ #1 but now shes more @ #6 or 7)

Venus Forever
Oct 9th, 2003, 02:06 AM
I found this interesting at Oz:

Venus Williams def. Justine Henin-Hardenne 6-3 6-3

Venus = 12 of 19 at net = 63 %
Justine = 8 of 17 at net = 47 %

Venus Williams def. Daniela Hantuchova 6-4 6-3

Venus = 11 of 14 = 79 %

Sure, Justine has some 60%, but Venus has many 70% - 90%. In fact, Venus against the top 10 this year at the slams, lowest winning percentage at net was 63%, the match against Justine. She went as high as 88% in her match with Lindsay at Wimbledon.

Justine's lowest is 47% with a lot of 50% and 60%.

More effective at net = Venus.

bandabou
Oct 9th, 2003, 02:06 AM
returns dont win you matches obviously...but davenport, capriati, and venus are more likely to break serena than any other person

And about your forehand argument...that really didnt make sense so i dont understand...

Yeah too bad Lindsay is slow otherwise she would be a deadlier player, but of course i was talking about groundstrokes not speed ;)

agreed..but Serena can break EVERYBODY.

SerenaSlam
Oct 9th, 2003, 02:08 AM
if its percentages against top 10, than not to be funny but everyones percentages against serena should be realtively low compared to them against anyone else. i mean i remember watching serena play justine at wimbledon, kim at nasdaq, and lindsay at FCC, and serena had their winnings off first and second serves around 45-50%

bandabou
Oct 9th, 2003, 02:08 AM
I found this interesting at Oz:

Venus Williams def. Justine Henin-Hardenne 6-3 6-3

Venus = 12 of 19 at net = 63 %
Justine = 8 of 17 at net = 47 %

Venus Williams def. Daniela Hantuchova 6-4 6-3

Venus = 11 of 14 = 79 %

Justine Henin-Hardenne def. Lindsay Davenport 7-5 5-7 9-7

Justine = 9 of 23 = 39 % :o

Sure, Justine has some 60%, but Venus has many 70% - 90%. In fact, Venus against the top 10 this year at the slams, lowest winning percentage at net was 63%, the match against Justine. She went as high as 88% in her match with Lindsay at Wimbledon.

More effective at net = Venus.

Word! When Venus decides to go to the net, she´s deadly.

bandabou
Oct 9th, 2003, 02:10 AM
if its percentages against top 10, than not to be funny but everyones percentages against serena should be realtively low compared to them against anyone else. i mean i remember watching serena play justine at wimbledon, kim at nasdaq, and lindsay at FCC, and serena had their winnings off first and second serves around 45-50%

I´m telling you this girl is no fun serving against! Everybody started to pick on Venus second serve, because they saw what Serena was doing with it.

Once again: return= Serena.

Knizzle
Oct 9th, 2003, 02:20 AM
Thats not true, Jennifer repedtly hit winners against both Lindsay and KJustine when she faced both of them in those close matches, at least 25+ forhand winners in both matches!

Jens forhand is more lethal than Serenas, Serena takes more chances, thats all, and that may seem why Serena hits more winners on her forhand, but Jens forhand is consistently better than Serenas on every level, she doesnt take as many risks though.

Cappy's is not more effective because she doesn't go for it. Most everyone else's is more effective because they set themselves up and put away their forehands when they have the chance.

Knizzle
Oct 9th, 2003, 02:23 AM
Forehand - Rubin, Serena, Venus, Jennifer, Lindsay
Backhand - Venus, Justine
Serve - Serena
Return - Serena
Net Game - Venus, Rubin, and Serena

Rubin?? Yeah Chanda has the big forehand, but it's not the most effective against the top players.

shap_half
Oct 9th, 2003, 03:30 AM
Whoever put Kim in the forehand and mental strength list is seriously deluded. Against Venus, Justine, Serena, Kim's forehand is almost out of the picture. Against everyone else she is inconsistent with it. I can hardly call Kim's forehand a weapon against the top ten.

And her mental strength? Quit joking

kyk710
Oct 9th, 2003, 03:50 AM
Rubin?? Yeah Chanda has the big forehand, but it's not the most effective against the top players.
It was pretty effective against Serena and Lindsay last year at LA.
And it was effective this year against Jenny, Momo, and Justine.
:devil:

Knizzle
Oct 9th, 2003, 04:25 AM
Whoever put Kim in the forehand and mental strength list is seriously deluded. Against Venus, Justine, Serena, Kim's forehand is almost out of the picture. Against everyone else she is inconsistent with it. I can hardly call Kim's forehand a weapon against the top ten.

And her mental strength? Quit joking

Kim's forehand is a huge weapon. It's her biggest besides her movement. Yes it can go off at pressure moments in big GS matches, but most of the time it's great. You're dead on about the mental strength though.

Knizzle
Oct 9th, 2003, 04:26 AM
It was pretty effective against Serena and Lindsay last year at LA.
And it was effective this year against Jenny, Momo, and Justine.
:devil:

You almost got to your point, but you didn't finish. I'm confused as to what it is.

Trish101
Oct 9th, 2003, 06:01 AM
whatever, my girl has three slams, Chanda has NADDA NUTHIN, Jennifer is better in every level!

tennnisfannn
Oct 9th, 2003, 10:32 AM
It is quite interesting reading other people's opinions. I think it is particularly very hard to rank the players against each other coz they all match up so differenctly.
Serena's serve is very effective against all the top tenners but nobody seems to be able to break her more often than Jennifer. She seems to face alot more breakpoints although she has the knack of serving aces and unreturnables at this point.
Jen seems to return so well against most players. Lindsay, Venus and Serena too.
I love both Justine's and Venus' backhands. Against Kim, Justine's backhand is so lethal amd doesn't seem to have the same effectiveness against Venus.
Serena, Kim and Capriati have the best forehands imo.
I also believe Venus has the best net game and comes in on anyone, while Justine chooses who to come in against. On the other hand some players give you shots that are easier to come in on.

bandabou
Oct 9th, 2003, 11:35 AM
It is quite interesting reading other people's opinions. I think it is particularly very hard to rank the players against each other coz they all match up so differenctly.
Serena's serve is very effective against all the top tenners but nobody seems to be able to break her more often than Jennifer. She seems to face alot more breakpoints although she has the knack of serving aces and unreturnables at this point.
Jen seems to return so well against most players. Lindsay, Venus and Serena too.
I love both Justine's and Venus' backhands. Against Kim, Justine's backhand is so lethal amd doesn't seem to have the same effectiveness against Venus.
Serena, Kim and Capriati have the best forehands imo.
I also believe Venus has the best net game and comes in on anyone, while Justine chooses who to come in against. On the other hand some players give you shots that are easier to come in on.

Yeah Jen sure must be getting frustrated by Serena´s serve. Bunch of breakpoints, but Serena always brings the ace or the unreturnable serve.

Cybelle Darkholme
Oct 9th, 2003, 01:18 PM
IF you want to see whose better look at the head to head between all the top ten players. that tells the story.

bandabou
Oct 9th, 2003, 01:19 PM
IF you want to see whose better look at the head to head between all the top ten players. that tells the story.

Everybody knows that already...

DA FOREHAND
Oct 9th, 2003, 01:43 PM
Serve= Serena
forehand =Serena
Backhand=Venus
net game=Venus
returns=Serena/Jennifer/Venus