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View Full Version : Has Serena a jumpers' knee ?


rikvanlooy
Jul 31st, 2003, 11:58 AM
In an Belgian newspaper (Het Laatste Nieuws) a doctor (ECC-tournament/Antwerp) said yesterday that he thinks Serena has a jumpers’ knee. If he is right, then it doesn’t look good for Serena. An operation would put her out of action for more than 6 months. A month is way too short a period to heal this kind of injury. He thinks Serena won’t play the US Open.

Here follows the entire article :

Haalt Serena US Open?

Orthopedisch chirurg Marcel Kenis: «Tendinose geneest niet op één maand»

BRUSSEL

Vorige week Stanford, gisteren San Diego: Serena Williams moest voor de tweede keer in twee weken forfait geven. Tendinitis in de linkerknie. De vraag rijst of ze wel de US Open haalt, eind augustus al.

Orthopedisch chirurg Marcel Kenis is categorisch: «Genezen binnen die tijdsspanne is onmogelijk.»

Marcel Kenis placht de arts van het ECC-tennistoernooi te zijn. Vertrouwd met tennisspelers dus. Ondertussen ook met basketspelers. En dus ook kniepeesblessures, de achillespees van de basketters. «Wij noemen het jumpers' knee. Eigenlijk geen tendinitis, geen ontsteking, wel tendinose, microscheurtjes in de aanhechtingspezen van de knie, plus mucoïde degeneratie. Zeg maar, slijtage. Een typisch overbelastingsverschijnsel.»

Serena speelt tennis, geen basket, en de Williams' zijn berucht voor hun selectieve optredens. Amper meer dan tien toernooien per jaar. Toch vermoedt dokter Kenis dat de Amerikaanse met dezelfde kwaal zit. «Het is geen typische tennisblessure, maar het wordt in de hand gewerkt door een aantal factoren, die ik bij Serena onderken. Zoals, veel spelen op hardcourt. Zoals, lange benen in verhouding tot de romp. Zoals: een disproportie in de ontwikkeling van de voorste en de achterste spieren.»

operatie of rust

Serena staat inderdaad op een koppel quadriceps als Duitse rijnaken. Is ze dan veroordeeld tot chronisch lijden? «Soms brengt rust soelaas, soms moet er operatief worden ingegrepen. Dat hangt af van persoon tot persoon. Maar in geval van operatie, spreken we meteen over een onbeschikbaarheid van 6 maanden.»

De US Open komt er al over een maand aan? «Op een maand is genezing onmogelijk. Je kan alleen een spuitje geven tegen de pijn. Met het risico dat de pees scheurt. Ik vraag me af welke Amerikaanse arts dat risico wil nemen? Nu is het wel zo dat zwarte atleten door de band een veel hogere pijngrens hebben dan blanke. Maar haar US Open lijkt mij wel behoorlijk in gevaar.»

Serena op de sukkel met de knie, Venus nog herstellend van de buikspieren, met enig cynisme kunnen we stellen dat Onze Meisjes een veelbelovende US Open wacht.

Chance
Jul 31st, 2003, 12:08 PM
Damn he's good hasn't met the girl but knows exactly what's wrong with her..... or is it more wishful thinking

gentenaire
Jul 31st, 2003, 12:09 PM
It's still only a presumption, he can't know what the real injury is. Besides, I have to disagree with him when he says Serena's got relatively long legs compared to the length of her upper body. He might be confusing Serena with Venus here. In fact, I have often felt Serena's legs are short in comparison with the length of ther body (don't mean this as criticism as I'm like that myself).

Juju_fan
Jul 31st, 2003, 12:11 PM
Well, we won't have to wait too long before we know if he's right...

Hulet
Jul 31st, 2003, 12:15 PM
Well, I don't know what the article is talking about (for obvious reasons). But, even if Serena has a jumper's knee, how long she is out depends on the severity of the pain she is feeling. For minor cases of Jumpers knee, a weeks rest andmassaging and icing of her legs is enough.

gentenaire
Jul 31st, 2003, 12:26 PM
BAsically he's saying that he doesn't think it's Tendonitis, not an inflammation, but Tendinosis (?) = microtears in the tendons. It's a typical 'overburden' injury.

Sufficient rest can help, sometimes an operation is necessary, it depends.

If she really has Tendinosis, then she can't be healed by the US Open. A doctor could prescribe her painkillers, but if she plays with that injury, she might risk tearing the tendons completely.

Anyway, let's hope this doctor's wrong and it's not this injury.

Hulet
Jul 31st, 2003, 12:48 PM
Okay, thanks for the summary.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 31st, 2003, 02:00 PM
Um is he her doctor? Did he examine her? Does he have access to her medical records? I am assuming the answer is no. So then how in the hell does he know what is wrong with her and what exactly is the point to this speculation?

selesfan
Jul 31st, 2003, 02:03 PM
Um is he her doctor? Did he examine her? Does he have access to her medical records? I am assuming the answer is no. So then how in the hell does he know what is wrong with her and what exactly is the point to this speculation?

He is speculating on what it would take for the Belgian girls to win the US Open. ;)

Cariaoke
Jul 31st, 2003, 02:04 PM
:tape:

Maybe Serena's doctor is his lover... hey, ER taught me that doctors love to sleep with doctors. ;)

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 31st, 2003, 02:05 PM
He is speculating on what it would take for the Belgian girls to win the US Open. ;)
:worship:
wow those belgians must be desperate for serena to be taken out of action.

gentenaire
Jul 31st, 2003, 02:08 PM
Um is he her doctor? Did he examine her? Does he have access to her medical records? I am assuming the answer is no. So then how in the hell does he know what is wrong with her and what exactly is the point to this speculation?

I knew that's how you'd react.

For the record, it's common to have experts discuss things that are in the news. After 9/11, we had experts on TV talking about how the buildings probably collapsed. Did they have all the details? No. Did they get to see the wreckage itself? No. But they've still got lots of experience in the field and the video footage to get some idea of what happened. Every time something happens, be it something general, be it in sports, there are experts giving their opinion.

They've got the fill the newspapers with something!

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 31st, 2003, 02:28 PM
Speculation like this and like you mentioned is never good. Why? Precisely because they don't have all the facts. If the facts exist then why not use them? Obviously someone has access to those facts why not ask them? What is the point of giving your expert opinion on someones medical condition that you have no access to? Its an excercise in futility.

Just because the same practice is done in other areas does not make it right. How is that a defense?

gentenaire
Jul 31st, 2003, 02:31 PM
As long as it's made clear it's just an opinion, I don't see what's wrong with it.

I've seen several articles here on WTAworld from newspapers where journalists gave their opinion on racism in tennis. There were no quotes from Venus or Serena in there, this journalist had no first hand knowledge, it was just an opinion. I did not see you complain about that person's opinion.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 31st, 2003, 02:43 PM
in my opionion when you have a professional or a so called "expert" on a given area give an opinion it is no longer just a mere opinion. I mean if they just wanted an opinion they would ask anyone. They went to an expert in the field and asked him a question based on the availiable information. However there is no need because she has already been to a doctor who DIAGNOSED HER. A thigh strain isn't that what it was? Why are they speculating on something that was already diagnosed? thats my issue. So you have an uninformed doctor with no access to serena's medical records offering his opinion in contradiction to the the doctor who examined serena and diagnosed her. Do you see my point?

The example you mentioned if regards to racism in tennis is a totally different situation.

rikvanlooy
Jul 31st, 2003, 02:50 PM
in my opionion when you have a professional or a so called "expert" on a given area give an opinion it is no longer just a mere opinion. I mean if they just wanted an opinion they would ask anyone. They went to an expert in the field and asked him a question based on the availiable information. However there is no need because she has already been to a doctor who DIAGNOSED HER. A thigh strain isn't that what it was? Why are they speculating on something that was already diagnosed? thats my issue. So you have an uninformed doctor with no access to serena's medical records offering his opinion in contradiction to the the doctor who examined serena and diagnosed her. Do you see my point?

The example you mentioned if regards to racism in tennis is a totally different situation.

We will see who is right. Doctors make mistakes as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if this "expert" was correct with his speculations. The way the Williams Sisters play is asking for injuries. Their play is purely based on power. To my opinion that's the main reason why they play as little as they do.

gentenaire
Jul 31st, 2003, 02:50 PM
Some say it's a thigh strain, others say it's the knee. That's the whole point, there's been very little information on Serena's injury.

Besides, it's 'cucumber time' (our way of saying there's not much newsworthy happening at the moment), so they have to fill their newspapers with all sorts of opinions of people. You're reading too much into this.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 31st, 2003, 02:55 PM
We will see who is right. Doctors make mistakes as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if this "expert" was correct with his speculations. The way the Williams Sisters play is asking for injuries. Their play is purely based on power. To my opinion that's the main reason why they play as little as they do.


When I see posts like this it just tells me you know nothing about the williams sisters and probably have never seen a match of theirs. There game is based on power but not purely. They also incoporate other elements.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 31st, 2003, 02:57 PM
Some say it's a thigh strain, others say it's the knee. That's the whole point, there's been very little information on Serena's injury.

Besides, it's 'cucumber time' (our way of saying there's not much newsworthy happening at the moment), so they have to fill their newspapers with all sorts of opinions of people. You're reading too much into this.

Thats another issue with papers. There are thousands of more important things happening besides serena's injury. And if they wanted to do a tennis story why not something interesting like a q and a with one of the players or an interview or bio piece?

rikvanlooy
Jul 31st, 2003, 02:59 PM
When I see posts like this it just tells me you know nothing about the williams sisters and probably have never seen a match of theirs.

????????????

gentenaire
Jul 31st, 2003, 03:01 PM
Thats another issue with papers. There are thousands of more important things happening besides serena's injury. And if they wanted to do a tennis story why not something interesting like a q and a with one of the players or an interview or bio piece?

Because those have been posted a thousand times over and aren't recent.

rikvanlooy
Jul 31st, 2003, 03:02 PM
When I see posts like this it just tells me you know nothing about the williams sisters and probably have never seen a match of theirs. There game is based on power but not purely. They also incoporate other elements.


If Venus and Serena had the power of (let's say) Conchita Martinez they wouldn't have won all those slams.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 31st, 2003, 03:12 PM
If Venus and Serena had the power of (let's say) Conchita Martinez they wouldn't have won all those slams.

okay and if martina hingis had the court sense of say anna kournikova she wouldn't have won all those slams.


if lindsay had the power of say conchita martinez she wouldnt have won all those slams.

if jen had the power of say conchita martinez she wouldn't have won all those slams.

if justine had the power of say twiggy she wouldn't have won her slam.

I guess serena or venus wouldn't have won a slam either if they had one leg a glass eye and and humpback. :rolleyes:

rikvanlooy
Jul 31st, 2003, 03:19 PM
okay and if martina hingis had the court sense of say anna kournikova she wouldn't have won all those slams.


if lindsay had the power of say conchita martinez she wouldnt have won all those slams.

if jen had the power of say conchita martinez she wouldn't have won all those slams.

if justine had the power of say twiggy she wouldn't have won her slam.

I guess serena or venus wouldn't have won a slam either if they had one leg a glass eye and and humpback. :rolleyes:

Everybody knows the difference between Venus/Serena and the rest are their power and their athletic abilities.

They don't paint the lines better than Hingis, Kim, ... They don't have the range of shots that Hingis and Justine have, .... They ....

Give Justine the body of Serena or Venus and Serena or Venus wouldn't stand a chance.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 31st, 2003, 03:23 PM
Everybody knows the difference between Venus/Serena and the rest are their power and their athletic abilities.

They don't paint the lines better than Hingis, Kim, ... They don't have the range of shots that Hingis and Justine have, .... They ....

Give Justine the body of Serena or Venus and Serena or Venus wouldn't stand a chance.

I guess you ignored that question I asked because you know the answer would be zero.

Also everyone knows that without her court sense martina would have racked up as many grand slam single titles as anna.

I guess serenas serve and venus down the line backhand are to be ingored also this is the one sport where being an athlete is held against you? Pathetic.

What does power have to do with drop shots, volleys, angles, etc etc because they use those shots. What does power have to do with redirecting the ball? That takes skill.

I also notice that you failed to mention any of the other power players like monica, jen, lindsay, etc. etc... and as for the range of shots well kim, lindsay, jen, monica, etc etc don't have the range of shots that hingis and justine have either. so whats your point?

Really why don't you go watch a match and then form an opinion.

Bella
Jul 31st, 2003, 03:28 PM
I think Beggin' Beguine is right. I've always seen Serena as having equal proportions or a little bit higher body-to-leg proportion than is usual. Maybe her strong upper body is throwing off the eye, though.

selesfan
Jul 31st, 2003, 03:31 PM
Everybody knows the difference between Venus/Serena and the rest are their power and their athletic abilities.

They don't paint the lines better than Hingis, Kim, ... They don't have the range of shots that Hingis and Justine have, .... They ....

Give Justine the body of Serena or Venus and Serena or Venus wouldn't stand a chance.
You sound like a total idiot who has never watched a tennis match. :rolleyes:

rikvanlooy
Jul 31st, 2003, 03:33 PM
I guess you ignored that question I asked because you know the answer would be zero.

Also everyone knows that without her court sense martina would have racked up as many grand slam single titles as anna.

I guess serenas serve and venus down the line backhand are to be ingored also this is the one sport where being an athlete is held against you? Pathetic.

What does power have to do with drop shots, volleys, angles, etc etc because they use those shots. What does power have to do with redirecting the ball? That takes skill.

I also notice that you failed to mention any of the other power players like monica, jen, lindsay, etc. etc... and as for the range of shots well kim, lindsay, jen, monica, etc etc don't have the range of shots that hingis and justine have either. so whats your point?

Really why don't you go watch a match and then form an opinion.

drop shots, volleys, angles ???

They are no better at this than the other top players (take a look at the semi final against Justine. Serena played some terrible drop shots).

Their serve is superior, because they have the power. Davenport is a big girl and also has a good serve.

Justine will never be able to serve as good as the Williams Sisters. Justine trains as hard as she can to improve her serve. She now serves at the same average speed of Serena, but her first serve percentage will allways be lower than that of Serena.

I have to say that they are real competitors. You're right that only having the right body is not enough to be a good tennis player. I wished Kim had the same mental attitude as Serena has.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 31st, 2003, 03:39 PM
drop shots, volleys, angles ???

They are no better at this than the other top players (take a look at the semi final against Justine. Serena played some terrible drop shots).

Their serve is superior, because they have the power. Davenport is a big girl and also has a good serve.

Justine will never be able to serve as good as the Williams Sisters. Justine trains as hard as she can to improve her serve. She now serves at the same average speed of Serena, but her first serve percentage will allways be lower than that of Serena.

I have to say that they are real competitors. You're right that only having the right body is not enough to be a good tennis player. I wished Kim had the same mental attitude as Serena has.


I did not say they were better at drop shots, volleys, or angles. I said they used them. You said they only use power. Now who is right? Not you.

Justine has a great serve, but I guess you still must find a reason to whine. "but her serve isn't better than serena's" well boo f*cking hoo. Get over it. Serena's finesse game isn't better than justines do you see any williams fans bitching and moaning about that?

Justine trains hard, yes. So do the other top players. Do you think serena started winning all those slams because she sits around and eats twinkies all day? She got fitter. She got mentally tougher.

Funny how you didn't answer my other questions. Here I'll repeat them.

How many slams would martina have won if she had the court sense of anna?
How many slams would jen, lindsay, and monica have won if they had the power of conchita martinez?

Would justine have won the french open if she had the finesse game of alexandra stevenson?

gentenaire
Jul 31st, 2003, 03:46 PM
Since when is saying that Serena is a power player bitching and moaning?

Serena and Justine have very different styles. Serena's style makes her more injury prone as it is harder on the body. I believe that's what rikvanlooy was trying to say.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 31st, 2003, 03:50 PM
Since when is saying that Serena is a power player bitching and moaning?

Serena and Justine have very different styles. Serena's style makes her more injury prone as it is harder on the body. I believe that's what rikvanlooy was trying to say.


I never said that. I only questioned when he said that serena is purely a power player. I dont think she is. And yes he is bitching and moaning that if justine had this or that she would be this or that and serena and venus would be nothing. yes that is bitching and moaning about something so stupid it is beyond reason. Okay lets take away justines finesse, lets take away jens forehand, lets take away, martinas court sense, lets take away lindsay's groundstrokes....

Juju_fan
Jul 31st, 2003, 04:25 PM
Um is he her doctor? Did he examine her? Does he have access to her medical records? I am assuming the answer is no. So then how in the hell does he know what is wrong with her and what exactly is the point to this speculation?
*putting Stupid Darkhorse on my ignore list*

This will prevent me from saying "Wow, again a retarded teenager who's overreacting about anything concerning the Holy Williamses..." everytime I read your posts...

:haha:

Mrs. Peel
Jul 31st, 2003, 04:30 PM
I guess you ignored that question I asked because you know the answer would be zero.

Also everyone knows that without her court sense martina would have racked up as many grand slam single titles as anna.

I guess serenas serve and venus down the line backhand are to be ingored also this is the one sport where being an athlete is held against you? Pathetic.

What does power have to do with drop shots, volleys, angles, etc etc because they use those shots. What does power have to do with redirecting the ball? That takes skill.

I also notice that you failed to mention any of the other power players like monica, jen, lindsay, etc. etc... and as for the range of shots well kim, lindsay, jen, monica, etc etc don't have the range of shots that hingis and justine have either. so whats your point?

Really why don't you go watch a match and then form an opinion.


:worship: :worship:

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 31st, 2003, 04:53 PM
*putting Stupid Darkhorse on my ignore list*

This will prevent me from saying "Wow, again a retarded teenager who's overreacting about anything concerning the Holy Williamses..." everytime I read your posts...

:haha:

no wonder I find myself disliking justine fans more and more. You all give so many reasons. freak.

Martian Willow
Jul 31st, 2003, 05:18 PM
Bob: it certainly was a thread of two halves...

Steve:: ...it sure was...Cybelle suckered rikvanlooy in by over-reacting to an innocuous newspaper article...

Bob: ...for a while it looked like rikvanlooy would make an ass of Cybelle...

Steve: ...but when rikvanlooy accepted the bait, he went off the deep end with the old 'if so-and-so hadn't had such-and-such' one-two, leaving him exposed...

Bob: ...despite Beggin' Beguines' defensive play...

Steve: ...allowing Cybelle to move in for the kill...

Bob: ...I can't wait for page 2...

Steve: ...coming up after this message from our sponsors...

:)

i_like_tennis
Jul 31st, 2003, 05:24 PM
oh no.....she has a knee problem.....
she better skips US Open and stays home,
her body is more important than tennis.....

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 31st, 2003, 05:29 PM
oh no.....she has a knee problem.....
she better skips US Open and stays home,
her body is more important than tennis.....

yes i agree. if her knee is still injured its better to withdraw. Im sure she will just like when her ankle was sprained and she withdrew from the aussie open in 2002. :rolleyes:

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 31st, 2003, 05:30 PM
Bob: it certainly was a thread of two halves...

Steve:: ...it sure was...Cybelle suckered rikvanlooy in by over-reacting to an innocuous newspaper article...

Bob: ...for a while it looked like rikvanlooy would make an ass of Cybelle...

Steve: ...but when rikvanlooy accepted the bait, he went off the deep end with the old 'if so-and-so hadn't had such-and-such' one-two, leaving him exposed...

Bob: ...despite Beggin' Beguines' defensive play...

Steve: ...allowing Cybelle to move in for the kill...

Bob: ...I can't wait for page 2...

Steve: ...coming up after this message from our sponsors...

:)

thats acutally amusing.

decemberlove
Jul 31st, 2003, 06:00 PM
dont yawl get tired of fighting the same fight all the time?

Bella
Jul 31st, 2003, 06:43 PM
Bob: it certainly was a thread of two halves...

Steve:: ...it sure was...Cybelle suckered rikvanlooy in by over-reacting to an innocuous newspaper article...

Bob: ...for a while it looked like rikvanlooy would make an ass of Cybelle...

Steve: ...but when rikvanlooy accepted the bait, he went off the deep end with the old 'if so-and-so hadn't had such-and-such' one-two, leaving him exposed...

Bob: ...despite Beggin' Beguines' defensive play...

Steve: ...allowing Cybelle to move in for the kill...

Bob: ...I can't wait for page 2...

Steve: ...coming up after this message from our sponsors...

:)

Pretty good.

Sanneriet
Aug 1st, 2003, 12:17 AM
tendinitis
The suffix "itis" means inflammation. The term tendinitis should be reserved for tendon injuries that involve larger-scale acute injuries accompanied by inflammation. (Tendinitis is often misspelled as tendonitis, but the preferred spelling used in most of the medical literature is tendinitis.)

tendinosis
The suffix "osis" implies a pathology of chronic degeneration without inflammation. Doctors prefer the term tendinosis for the kind of chronic tendon injuries that most of us have. The main problem for someone with tendinosis is failed healing, not inflammation; tendinosis is an accumulation over time of microscopic injuries that don't heal properly. Although inflammation can be involved in the initial stages of the injury, it is the inability of the tendon to heal that perpetuates the pain and disability. Most of the pain associated with tendinosis probably comes not from inflammation but from other irritating biochemical substances associated with the injury (see The Pain of Tendinosis and Overuse Tendon Injuries: Where Does The Pain Come From? for more information).[


This might help. Given the "chronic" nature of this, it seems reasonable that he is making a distinction.

DunkMachine
Aug 1st, 2003, 08:46 AM
Omg this guy said and I quote: "Blacks have a higher pain endurance level than whites". WTF??!!!!! Oh he means blacks are genetically predisposed to endure whippings for 400 years, oic thanks doc :rolleyes: .

Anyways, is this article wishfull thinking from the belgians, or what?

spudrsca
Aug 1st, 2003, 08:51 AM
Maybe Serena will have the same problem as Ronaldo.
Too much muscles in her legs for her articulation.

sharnadarling
Aug 1st, 2003, 10:15 AM
GOOD NEWS AT LAST! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

not ur time 2 shine nemore serena!

gentenaire
Aug 1st, 2003, 10:31 AM
Omg this guy said and I quote: "Blacks have a higher pain endurance level than whites". WTF??!!!!! Oh he means blacks are genetically predisposed to endure whippings for 400 years, oic thanks doc :rolleyes: .

Anyways, is this article wishfull thinking from the belgians, or what?

oh come on, stop twisting things around. You could read it as 'whites are wimps' as well, you know.

I remember a previous discussion, apparently you're a racist if you dare say there are physical differences between the races. (the only thing that is okay to say is that black man are in general 'better endowed'). I don't get it.

Cybelle Darkholme
Aug 1st, 2003, 02:40 PM
oh come on, stop twisting things around. You could read it as 'whites are wimps' as well, you know.

I remember a previous discussion, apparently you're a racist if you dare say there are physical differences between the races. (the only thing that is okay to say is that black man are in general 'better endowed'). I don't get it.

if the man said that then it is indeed racist. Even saying black men are better endowed is racist in my opinon. sure lets reduce them to animalistic sexual beings like they did in the past. Sorry but the past colors everything that happens in the present. That higher tolerance bullshit is just that. Do you really believe that black people as a have a higher pain tolerance? How? What study is this? And do you really believe that white people are "wimps"? what study? Wheres the research?

It sounds more like its racist bullshit and its easy to see. These broad generalizations are evil. Yes even the endowment one imo. the only reason that came into being is to scare away the white women during the days of slavery that if they tried to seduce one the slaves it would be pain beyond beliefe because of their huge endowment. :rolleyes:

gentenaire
Aug 1st, 2003, 03:47 PM
The endowment came across elsewhere, Cybelle, and believe it was the black posters who brought it up and were happy when the 'experienced woman' concurred.

I still don't see why it is racist. All people should have the same rights, should be treated the same, no matter what their race. But is it racist to say that in general Asians are smaller? Is it racist to say the Dutch are the tallest people in the world? Do you really want research results to confirm this? We all have eyes, we can see.

This doctor is a sports doctor with lots of experience in the field. I actually read his remark as a compliment towards blacks.

I'm an atheist, I see human beings as a biologic being. As there are difference between different sorts of plants, different sorts of animals, I don't think it's that strange to think there are differences between the races. I've been attacked earlier by a feminist for suggesting that there are differences between men and women. Shocking! How dare I suggest that men are stronger physically?! Whoa!

Cybelle Darkholme
Aug 1st, 2003, 03:54 PM
The endowment came across elsewhere, Cybelle, and believe it was the black posters who brought it up and were happy when the 'experienced woman' concurred.

I still don't see why it is racist. All people should have the same rights, should be treated the same, no matter what their race. But is it racist to say that in general Asians are smaller? Is it racist to say the Dutch are the tallest people in the world? Do you really want research results to confirm this? We all have eyes, we can see.

This doctor is a sports doctor with lots of experience in the field. I actually read his remark as a compliment towards blacks.

I'm an atheist, I see human beings as a biologic being. As there are difference between different sorts of plants, different sorts of animals, I don't think it's that strange to think there are differences between the races. I've been attacked earlier by a feminist for suggesting that there are differences between men and women. Shocking! How dare I suggest that men are stronger physically?! Whoa!

I am not saying there are not differences. Of course there are differences. However one thing like height is a fact. You can look at most asians and see that yes they are not as tall as other races as a whole. However something subjective like tolerance for pain? Please! I dont see how he can attribute that to race and not possibly lets say culture? Enviornment? Could it be that those are more important? I mean does not everyone have the same nerve endings? so Everyone feels pain. How in the world could race help them tolerate it more?

another example. People say that blacks dominate the sprints in track and field because of the type of muscles they have in their legs, short i believe for explosiveness, which whites do not have, they have long muscles for more endurance and long distances, I believe, but I could be wrong. However there are blacks who excell in long distances and marathons like the kenyans who have been winning a lot lately. So its not right imo to lump all wite people and say oh you will never dominate the sprints in track and field and then lump all black people and say oh you will never win the long distance runs. I wish I remembered the names of the muscle groups but I do not. oh well you get my point, right?

gentenaire
Aug 1st, 2003, 04:34 PM
I know what you're talking about, Cybelle. And I do believe blacks have more explosive power than whites because there's a difference in built. But I would never say that this makes the results these athletes achieve less worthy. There's raw talent and there's what you do with this talent. Kim Clijsters has often said that she's lucky to have her father's legs and the litheness (is that a word?) of her mother. She's got good genes. Does she therefore have an unfair advantage over others? I don't think so. She still had to train hard to get where she is now. Black sprinters have lots of talent (from their genes, and being black is part of their genes), but they still had to train very hard, be very determined in order to get where they are.

I'm sure you know what a Gaussian curve is. I believe that the 'explosive power' curve for blacks would be right of the one for whites. So on average, blacks are more powerful, I think. However, there are still a great many whites who have more powers than a group of blacks. Just like there are Asians who're taller than some white people.

Talents are mainly defined by genes, I think (and race is just one aspect of it, there are many more). I find all talents admirable and feel everyone should try to make the most of them. I see the strength of many blacks as their talent so it's something I admire.

Cybelle Darkholme
Aug 1st, 2003, 05:13 PM
I know what you're talking about, Cybelle. And I do believe blacks have more explosive power than whites because there's a difference in built. But I would never say that this makes the results these athletes achieve less worthy. There's raw talent and there's what you do with this talent. Kim Clijsters has often said that she's lucky to have her father's legs and the litheness (is that a word?) of her mother. She's got good genes. Does she therefore have an unfair advantage over others? I don't think so. She still had to train hard to get where she is now. Black sprinters have lots of talent (from their genes, and being black is part of their genes), but they still had to train very hard, be very determined in order to get where they are.

I'm sure you know what a Gaussian curve is. I believe that the 'explosive power' curve for blacks would be right of the one for whites. So on average, blacks are more powerful, I think. However, there are still a great many whites who have more powers than a group of blacks. Just like there are Asians who're taller than some white people.

Talents are mainly defined by genes, I think (and race is just one aspect of it, there are many more). I find all talents admirable and feel everyone should try to make the most of them. I see the strength of many blacks as their talent so it's something I admire.


For me the thing to admire is the effort and the work and the drive it takes to reach your potential no matter what innate talent or genes you have. For me the innate part of a person makes no difference and hardly matters if that person doesnt take the time to develop it.

Take people like mozart what if he just sat at home and never developed his talent? I mean the man was genius but it was the effort that defined him, the drive that defined him, not the innate ability.

To me race is irrelveant except when it comes to uv protection due to melanin in the skin. Thats the only function for race imo is to tell one how much sun tan lotion to put on to help prevent skin cancer.

To me developing your body is just like developing your mind. People are not born with a degree or knowledge in a certain area they have to work and learn and read and think. It takes effort. Just like it takes effort to develop a skill or your body. Sure your genes may give some people a certain advantage in some areas and others in different areas but if the effort is not put in then those genes mean nothing.

So it is the effort and drive that matters and for me that is what I admire.

gentenaire
Aug 1st, 2003, 06:04 PM
That's what I was trying to say, Cybelle. I admire people who make the best of their talents.

SJW
Aug 1st, 2003, 06:44 PM
Serena mentioned in a BELGIAN paper?? :eek::tape:

Dava
Aug 1st, 2003, 06:45 PM
What is Jumpers Knee.

selesfan
Aug 1st, 2003, 06:49 PM
GOOD NEWS AT LAST! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

not ur time 2 shine nemore serena!

:rolleyes: What an idiot you are.

DunkMachine
Aug 1st, 2003, 06:53 PM
oh come on, stop twisting things around. You could read it as 'whites are wimps' as well, you know.

I remember a previous discussion, apparently you're a racist if you dare say there are physical differences between the races. (the only thing that is okay to say is that black man are in general 'better endowed'). I don't get it.

:rolleyes: I think I was pointing out why people with one type of build is more proficient at one particulair sport than people with a different type of build. I assure you it had no racial undertone whatsoever. It's the truth, shorter limbs and a larger upperbody are better suited for weightlifting. Longer limbs are better suited for speed and movement.

However what I understand is how this man came to the conclusion that blacks have better pain endurance or why he even brought it up.

The endowment "myth" started by whitey I can't speak on that. Because I can only speak on myself about that. Let's just say the myth is......... :tape:.

Juju_fan
Aug 1st, 2003, 07:13 PM
:rolleyes: I think I was pointing out why people with one type of build is more proficient at one particulair sport than people with a different type of build. I assure you it had no racial undertone whatsoever. It's the truth, shorter limbs and a larger upperbody are better suited for weightlifting. Longer limbs are better suited for speed and movement.

However what I understand is how this man came to the conclusion that blacks have better pain endurance or why he even brought it up.

The endowment "myth" started by whitey I can't speak on that. Because I can only speak on myself about that. Let's just say the myth is......... :tape:.
Well, for your information, the endowment is a legend lol, the "ranking" in this area is:
1° Caucasian type
2° African type
3° Hispano type
4° Asian type

This is real stat, not just something I made up to prove a point ;)

SJW
Aug 1st, 2003, 07:16 PM
Well, for your information, the endowment is a legend lol, the "ranking" in this area is:
1° Caucasian type
2° African type
3° Hispano type
4° Asian type

This is real stat, not just something I made up to prove a point ;)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

and where do you live? wonderland LMAO :lol:

Juju_fan
Aug 1st, 2003, 07:19 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

and where do you live? wonderland LMAO :lol:
Well, if you need some documentation I can provide it :p

SJW
Aug 1st, 2003, 07:23 PM
no seriously are u belgian?

Juju_fan
Aug 1st, 2003, 07:27 PM
Well, yeah, but what does it say about the topic? :confused:

SJW
Aug 1st, 2003, 07:29 PM
i just wanted to know what area it came from

ive never heard any caucasian endowment jokes before or anyone saying they want to sleep with a caucasian because of the size of his, ugh, soldier ;)

Juju_fan
Aug 1st, 2003, 07:31 PM
i just wanted to know what area it came from

ive never heard any caucasian endowment jokes before or anyone saying they want to sleep with a caucasian because of the size of his, ugh, soldier ;)
Well, now you have ;)

You should check, for the sake of the statistics' science ;)

DunkMachine
Aug 1st, 2003, 10:42 PM
Whatever Juju_fan, if that improves your selfasteem. And a big &*)( it is. I have only seen the shadow of the tip of that monstrosity. :rolleyes:

rottweily
Aug 1st, 2003, 11:17 PM
When I see posts like this it just tells me you know nothing about the williams sisters and probably have never seen a match of theirs. There game is based on power but not purely. They also incoporate other elements.


He more or less meant mainly on power.

You can't deny that mostly Venus and also Serena have a rather high #injuries/#played_tourneys ratio.

Juju_fan
Aug 2nd, 2003, 10:21 AM
As I said in the beginning, time would tell if this doctor was right...

Now, it looks like he kind of "knows his stuff", doesn't he?

tennischick
Aug 2nd, 2003, 01:16 PM
so after all this defensive crap......the doctor was absolutely correct in his expert opinion. clearly some of you are not experts at anything so you can't relate to the professional world of defined expertise. as an expert he was called upon to give an opinion that he was clearly qualified to make. and he was correct -- both in his diagnosis and his treatment suggestions.

and it is a fact that Serena is injury-prone bec of her power play. this is not to say that she doesn't hit the occasional dropshot or sliced return. but mainly hers is a power game (i can't believe that this is actually being debated :rolleyes: ) and when you play tennis like she does, there is a higher risk of injury. here's hoping that she recovers fully and then rethinks and retools her game as needed.

BrianII
Aug 2nd, 2003, 02:40 PM
What does how she hits the ball have to do with her kness for the sake of argument lets say she gets some explosive power from her legs ...was hingis' ankle injury from hitting the ball to hard , or maybe kim shoulder strain last year ( an actual upper body injury ) was the result lack of technique maybe she needs to retool her hacking forehand and learn good technique .....did it occur to thickchick that just maybe Serena is a big girl who moves very fast in a stop and start sport ( constant change of directions ) and this just might put a lot of strain on joints knees ankles etc .....ever heard of physics, terms like momentum ( mass x velocity )..... Gee if Serena would return every ball with a lob only waiting for opponent to make a mistake then she could run around the court much more and the extra running ( more weight on those knees for longer periods ) would ensure healthy knees ..then she could retire later this year with an ankle injury( ala hingis) instead I guess rthe knees go cos you hit hard and the ankles cos you hit soft.

azza
Aug 2nd, 2003, 02:54 PM
hope so

spudrsca
Aug 2nd, 2003, 03:29 PM
What does how she hits the ball have to do with her kness for the sake of argument lets say she gets some explosive power from her legs ...was hingis' ankle injury from hitting the ball to hard , or maybe kim shoulder strain last year ( an actual upper body injury ) was the result lack of technique maybe she needs to retool her hacking forehand and learn good technique .....did it occur to thickchick that just maybe Serena is a big girl who moves very fast in a stop and start sport ( constant change of directions ) and this just might put a lot of strain on joints knees ankles etc .....ever heard of physics, terms like momentum ( mass x velocity )..... Gee if Serena would return every ball with a lob only waiting for opponent to make a mistake then she could run around the court much more and the extra running ( more weight on those knees for longer periods ) would ensure healthy knees ..then she could retire later this year with an ankle injury( ala hingis) instead I guess rthe knees go cos you hit hard and the ankles cos you hit soft.

Well, for Kim and Serena, it's the case :cool:
Kim has a very weird technic with her forehand.
And Serena isn't very aerian with her footstep, haven't you notice how Serena is like blocked when wrong footing.
Like I said in another post asking who would be the faster on 100 meters, I said that Serena had the power but thinks that she hasn't got a good runnig technic :cool:

One more thing i'd like to add is that Serena is one of the players who it the most balls out of position standing often on one leg and thus putting more pressure on her legs to compensate her lack of good positon for the stroke.

selesfan
Aug 2nd, 2003, 04:12 PM
As I said in the beginning, time would tell if this doctor was right...

Now, it looks like he kind of "knows his stuff", doesn't he?

How was he right? He said she would need 6 months to heal and she had tendonitis which is very common amongst athletes, how is a power game harmful to your knee. Look at Martina with her ankle problems, she isn't a power player. I have endonitis of the knees and I am certainly not a powerful athlete. ;)

decemberlove
Aug 2nd, 2003, 04:26 PM
another example. People say that blacks dominate the sprints in track and field because of the type of muscles they have in their legs, short i believe for explosiveness, which whites do not have, they have long muscles for more endurance and long distances, I believe, but I could be wrong. However there are blacks who excell in long distances and marathons like the kenyans who have been winning a lot lately. So its not right imo to lump all wite people and say oh you will never dominate the sprints in track and field and then lump all black people and say oh you will never win the long distance runs. I wish I remembered the names of the muscle groups but I do not. oh well you get my point, right?

theres two different fibres in the muscle, slow twitch and fast twitch. everybody has a mixture of both, neither of the two are exclusive to any particular race. fast twitch muscles are used by your eyes, slow twich by your back and lower legs. the rest of your muscles in your body are a mix.

fast twitch are good for explosive activities, they consume a lot of energy and tire fast. slow twitch is better for long distance running and cycling.

its all about what you end up with, nothing at all to do with race. there are just as many fast black sprinters as there are fast black long distance runners.

decemberlove
Aug 2nd, 2003, 04:30 PM
Well, for your information, the endowment is a legend lol, the "ranking" in this area is:
1° Caucasian type
2° African type
3° Hispano type
4° Asian type

This is real stat, not just something I made up to prove a point ;)

:lol: :lol:

thats hilarious
"hispano" isnt even a race

tennischick
Aug 2nd, 2003, 05:21 PM
Well, for Kim and Serena, it's the case :cool:
Kim has a very weird technic with her forehand.
And Serena isn't very aerian with her footstep, haven't you notice how Serena is like blocked when wrong footing.
Like I said in another post asking who would be the faster on 100 meters, I said that Serena had the power but thinks that she hasn't got a good runnig technic :cool:

One more thing i'd like to add is that Serena is one of the players who it the most balls out of position standing often on one leg and thus putting more pressure on her legs to compensate her lack of good positon for the stroke.
thank you. :worship: i couldn't have said it better. yes both of these women's injuries have everything to do with the way they play tennis. even the way Serena hits her double-handed backhand involves a great deal of torqueing of both of her knees. and her footwork is characteristcally poor hence her tendency to hit huge shots when she is not in the correct position to do so. i also believe that Hingis' injuries stemmed in part from the way she played tennis. Hingis tended to hit her shots off her backfeet instead of moving into the shot. also she tried to morph herself belatedly into a power player and she paid the price. as far as i am concerned, the combination of massive power and improper technique is the single largest cause of injury for both the WTA and the ATP.

DunkMachine
Aug 2nd, 2003, 06:38 PM
Actually Serena has the proper technique for distance running. She brings her knees up high and takes strong steps. But this technique is bad for changing directions and lateral movement. Kim and Martina use slides and run with shorter steps to get themselves into position. They aren't as fast but move faster towards a return.

rottweily
Aug 2nd, 2003, 06:43 PM
Well, for Kim and Serena, it's the case :cool:
Kim has a very weird technic with her forehand.
And Serena isn't very aerian with her footstep, haven't you notice how Serena is like blocked when wrong footing.
Like I said in another post asking who would be the faster on 100 meters, I said that Serena had the power but thinks that she hasn't got a good runnig technic :cool:

One more thing i'd like to add is that Serena is one of the players who it the most balls out of position standing often on one leg and thus putting more pressure on her legs to compensate her lack of good positon for the stroke.

Henin has no feet on the ground if she plays with a lot of power :lol:

Juju_fan
Aug 2nd, 2003, 06:47 PM
:lol: :lol:

thats hilarious
"hispano" isnt even a race
well, here's one source: http://www.sizesurvey.com/result.html

if you prefer hispanic, I apologize for my bad English ;)

decemberlove
Aug 2nd, 2003, 07:14 PM
well, here's one source: http://www.sizesurvey.com/result.html

if you prefer hispanic, I apologize for my bad English ;)

i always poking fun at your english, sorry if it appeared that way.

but hispanic ISNT a race. there are only three races technically, and hispanic is not one of them. so, this website is wrong.

whoa... i just saw the pictures... was not expecting that.

ive always read the average erect penis size of men [no matter the race] was 5.25" - 5.75". this survey said something about being self measured right? thats why i wouldnt believe it at all.

i dont believe all that racial/ethnicity bullshit. yknow the "irish curse", ive been with enough irish guys to say that isnt necessarily true. ive only been with one black guy, and he was pretty blessed, but he was also pretty tall. its always been my experience that usually a tall guy has a, umm, well-proportioned body, yknow? of course, im not implying short guys arent big, but i really wouldnt know.

starr
Aug 2nd, 2003, 07:41 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble about tall guys. ;)

Also -- Don't count out the short guys. ;)

Hey!! Guess what? The Belgian doctor was right! It was a tear in the tendon. Good call. Sure was funny reading the thread while knowing the outcome. The only thing is that the treating physician said that healing time would be 6-8 weeks. The Belgian guy thought it was a longer time.

Time will tell.

the cat
Aug 2nd, 2003, 07:47 PM
As far as technique goes, there are alot of players with shaky techinque on their strokes and footwork. And Serena Williams is one of them. But that didn't stop her from becoming by far the best female tennis player in the world.

And I don't know if a player such as Serena can improve their technique at this stage of her career and with all of the success she's had. A change in technique might lead to a loss of confidence and a slippage in her play.

starr
Aug 2nd, 2003, 07:53 PM
I would be bizarre if she changed her technique at this point.

I do blame the open stance and heavy torque used by the men for all of those hip and abductor injuries we see these days.

decemberlove
Aug 2nd, 2003, 07:58 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble about tall guys. ;)


why are you a tall guy with a small dick?

anyway, i said my experience, i was NOT making a general statement.

i usually count out short guys cos im not really attracted to the short, stocky type. i mean, theres a few, but they have to have a real nice face. and some of them have the serious napoleon complex that i just can not deal with. i prefer tall, lanky types :) short guys cant pull off the skinny look without looking like a 12 year old.

starr
Aug 2nd, 2003, 08:50 PM
I'm a fan of lanky.

Nah..... I'm not a tall guy. I just get around. :)