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"Topaz"
Jul 30th, 2003, 07:50 PM
I'm talking current 3rd best female tennis player, not ranking, just in case someone needs clarification.
Let me go by elimination.

- If Serena is playing anyone and is healthy, I expect her to win. So, in my mind, she's the best player right now.

- If Venus is playing anyone but Serena, and is healthy, I expect her to win. So, in my mind, she's the second best player right now.

- If Clijsters is playing anyone but Serena and Venus, and is healthy, I expect her to win. So, in my mind, she's the third best player right now.

- As for the fourth best, I don't have any solid expectation but Justine does come to mind as well as Davey, Cappy and Momo.

As a side point, when the first and second best don't or can't play due to various reasons including illness, why can't we accept that it behoves the third best to take the helm and be #1?

AjdeNate!
Jul 30th, 2003, 07:54 PM
Serena, Kim, Justine.

sartrista7
Jul 30th, 2003, 07:54 PM
If I go by your criteria, it's surface dependent.

On clay, Kim is third best (behind Justine and Serena).
On grass, Justine is third best (behind Serena and Venus).
On hard courts and indoors, Kim is third best (behind Serena and Venus).

I'm taking Justine overall, as she has a Slam. Which isn't part of the criteria at all, but eh, it's important.

selesrules
Jul 30th, 2003, 07:55 PM
1. Serena
2. Kim
3. Justine
4. Venus

why not simply follow the rankings? It's not as if Venus was stabbed or something. This is based on their true talents.

DA FOREHAND
Jul 30th, 2003, 07:59 PM
1. Serena
2. Kim
3. Justine
4. Venus

why not simply follow the rankings? It's not as if Venus was stabbed or something. This is based on their true talents.


If it's based on true talent there's no way Venus would be below justine, or Kim.

hingis-seles
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:02 PM
For me Kim is 3rd best. #2 has to be Justine(the only other player to win a Slam) and #1 is Serena who owns just about everything except RG.

"Topaz"
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:06 PM
If I go by your criteria, it's surface dependent.

On clay, Kim is third best (behind Justine and Serena).
On grass, Justine is third best (behind Serena and Venus).
On hard courts and indoors, Kim is third best (behind Serena and Venus).

I'm taking Justine overall, as she has a Slam. Which isn't part of the criteria at all, but eh, it's important.In your estimation, you have Kim twice and Justine once. Slam or not, logic (or math) points to Kim, doesn't it?

sartrista7
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:08 PM
In your estimation, you have Kim twice and Justine once. Slam or not, logic (or math) points to Kim, desn't it?

But I also have Justine top in one category, which sort of balances her two 4th places out. And as I said... she's got the Slam. If it wasn't for the clear gap between Venus and Justine on non-clay surfaces (the gap between Kim and Justine is imo fairly small), I'd have her second.

SJW
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:16 PM
if they were all to have a throw down, im saying the sisters come out on top then Kim and the other one.

whos had the best year? Serena Justine (the slam) Kim Venus

vs the other three? Serena Venus Kim Justine

i would say Kim is doing better than Venus right now. but Venus has her number ;)

so my educated opinion says Serena Kim Venus Justine *shrug* :D

per4ever
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:20 PM
If it's based on true talent there's no way Venus would be below justine, or Kim.

Justine is considered as the biggest talent in tennis these days..may be even in history. Consider only tennistalent and Justine is #1

SJW
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:22 PM
yea cos no way the number one player can be talented :o

id rather she be stupid and doing what she does than "talented" and.....not doing it :tape:

Knizzle
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:22 PM
Justine is considered as the biggest talent in tennis these days..may be even in history. Consider only tennistalent and Justine is #1

No, Venus and Serena do things no one else can do. Henin is talented, but her backhand is the only shot that people go gaga over. One handed backhands will always look more beautiful aesthetically than a two-handed backhand.

By the way I think Justine is third best, but this year she has been the second best at winning slams, and beating top players. Kim is #4 because beating the top four these days is a struggle for her. Serena is 1 and Venus is 2.

bandabou
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:24 PM
1. Serena: duh...
2. Venus: her play against Kim this year gives her the nod.
3. Kim: most consistent and I think she“s better than Justine on surfaces other than clay.

fleemke³
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:26 PM
No, Venus and Serena do things no one else can do. Henin is talented, but her backhand is the only shot that people go gaga over. One handed backhands will always look more beautiful aesthetically than a two-handed backhand.

No can't agree here. Both Martina and Justine have more abbilities than the other players in the circuit today. Serena and Venus were started on power, MArtina and Justine started on pure talent.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that the others aren't talented he! But pure technical Justine and Martina are more gifted BUT that's not enough to be a top-player. That's why Justine is working out that hard!

per4ever
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:28 PM
No, Venus and Serena do things no one else can do. Henin is talented, but her backhand is the only shot that people go gaga over. One handed backhands will always look more beautiful aesthetically than a two-handed backhand.

By the way I think Justine is third best, but this year she has been the second best at winning slams, and beating top players. Kim is #4 because beating the top four these days is a struggle for her. Serena is 1 and Venus is 2.

The williams sisters have other talents..more on the physical part of tennis imo. Of course they have tennistalent or they wouldn't be topplayers ;) I'm just talking about real tennistalent..the touch of a player, subtility, control over the racket. I think Justine is number 1 on that part

btw I voted Justine third best. I think the ranking is always a good reflexion of the situation at the moment.

DA FOREHAND
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:28 PM
Justine is considered as the biggest talent in tennis these days..may be even in history. Consider only tennistalent and Justine is #1


Funny I can only think of the slice backhand, and sliding on clay as something justine does better than Venus.

Mase
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:29 PM
Serena
Kim
Venus
Justine
Jenny/Davey

SJW
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:29 PM
why is it "talented" players often get the sh*t kicked out of them???

i think you are confusing talented with........vertically challenged baby ;)

Josh
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:29 PM
if they were all to have a throw down, im saying the sisters come out on top then Kim and the other one.

whos had the best year? Serena Justine (the slam) Kim Venus

vs the other three? Serena Venus Kim Justine

i would say Kim is doing better than Venus right now. but Venus has her number ;)

so my educated opinion says Serena Kim Venus Justine *shrug* :D

vs the other three and you put Kim above Justine? Justine has two wins against Serena and Kim this year. Kim has three wins over justine but no wins over either Serena nor Venus.

And you say Kim is doing better than Venus right now so you put her above Venus, yet you put Justine, who has also done better than Venus this year below her? :confused:

per4ever
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:30 PM
Funny I can only think of the slice backhand, and sliding on clay as something justine does better than Venus.
I think you never saw Justine's volleys then.

DA FOREHAND
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:31 PM
justine has very good volleys, too bad Venus passes her like an ugly hitchhiker when she comes in against her.

SJW
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:33 PM
vs the other three and you put Kim above Justine? Justine has two wins against Serena and Kim this year. Kim has three wins over justine but no wins over either Serena nor Venus.

And you say Kim is doing better than Venus right now so you put her above Venus, yet you put Justine, who has also done better than Venus this year below her? :confused:

Topic Title: who in your mind is currently the third best player

:wavey:

Hendouble
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:34 PM
Interesting metaphor, Da Forehand - presumably Henin sticks her thumb out as she raises the racquet and tries to jump straight into Venus' path?

Hendouble
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:36 PM
Actually, the metaphor is flawed - to pass Henin like an ugly hitchhiker, Venus would actually have to physically go past Henin herself. In fact, the way you phrase it suggests that it is Venus who is the ugly hitchhiker since she is the one who, and I quote, "passes her like an ugly hitch-hiker". Hmm, error-ridden on both counts.

Josh
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:37 PM
Topic Title: who in your mind is currently the third best player

:wavey:

Indeed, so you don't have to give arguments that don't make sense to back up your opinion. :p

Knizzle
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:37 PM
No can't agree here. Both Martina and Justine have more abbilities than the other players in the circuit today. Serena and Venus were started on power, MArtina and Justine started on pure talent.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that the others aren't talented he! But pure technical Justine and Martina are more gifted BUT that's not enough to be a top-player. That's why Justine is working out that hard!

Henin's forehand is just now becoming solid this year, before it was nothing, and that backhand can still be pounded on. You see this year she has become so muscular because her natural gifts weren't enough to win. I think the Williams get slighted because everyone thinks they popped out of the womb muscular and in shape and powerful. They obviously work hard to keep up their physical conditioning. Their talent was recognized when they were 10 and 8. Sometimes I think people are too caught up in watching how hard the sisters hit the ball to pay attention to the intricasies(sp?) of their strategy and tactics on the court. Somehow people think, hitting the ball slow or with spin or slice automatically makes a player "smart" which is not true. Venus especially is smart enough to have figured out how to beat a tough player like Henin 7 straight times. Those weren't really easy victories either some were 2 sets, but others were 3 grueling sets. The difference between Venus, Henin, and Clijsters is that Venus has figured out each opponent and how to play them. Venus is obviously mentally tougher, and she changes her strategies on the court better than the Belgians. Kim didn't change anything up when Venus countered her at Wimby, also in 2002 when Justine was up 6-2, 4-0 on Venus at Amelia, she didn't change tactics when Venus started to make her comeback. They are just like deer in headlights. This is what sets the talent of Venus apart from the Belgians. You can have all the natural gifts you want, but you have to have the brain power and skill to use them effectively. Venus has developed this.

SJW
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:38 PM
Indeed, so you don't have to give arguments that don't make sense to back up your opinion. :p

dont speak to me :)

Hendouble: baby stop trying to be funny....it aint working ;)

Hendouble
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:41 PM
Oh, but it is SJW, it is. You see, using the curious logic of WTAWorld I deduce that you wouldn't be making the effort to respond to me if you didn't find my posts funny in some way. That, and I get too much positive rep not to continue with this egregious posting style of mine...

alfajeffster
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:47 PM
Henin's forehand is just now becoming solid this year, before it was nothing, and that backhand can still be pounded on. You see this year she has become so muscular because her natural gifts weren't enough to win. I think the Williams get slighted because everyone thinks they popped out of the womb muscular and in shape and powerful. They obviously work hard to keep up their physical conditioning. Their talent was recognized when they were 10 and 8. Sometimes I think people are too caught up in watching how hard the sisters hit the ball to pay attention to the intricasies(sp?) of their strategy and tactics on the court. Somehow people think, hitting the ball slow or with spin or slice automatically makes a player "smart" which is not true. Venus especially is smart enough to have figured out how to beat a tough player like Henin 7 straight times. Those weren't really easy victories either some were 2 sets, but others were 3 grueling sets. The difference between Venus, Henin, and Clijsters is that Venus has figured out each opponent and how to play them. Venus is obviously mentally tougher, and she changes her strategies on the court better than the Belgians. Kim didn't change anything up when Venus countered her at Wimby, also in 2002 when Justine was up 6-2, 4-0 on Venus at Amelia, she didn't change tactics when Venus started to make her comeback. They are just like deer in headlights. This is what setst the talent of Venus apart from the Belgians. You can have all the natural gifts you want, but you have to have the brain power and skill to use them effectively. Venus has developed this.


As the British would say: BOLLOX!!! Deer in the headlights, really! That's exactly what Venus Williams looked like when she played Martina Hingis and Lindsay Davenport and lost regularly for a long time until new coaching (yes, she gets it regularly and never gives credit where credit is due) taught her to cut down on the unforced errors and simply rely on her athleticism to run down everything and expect to have to hit winners on the dead run all the time. She is without a doubt the most stupid #1 player in the history of women's tennis, IMHO

SJW
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:49 PM
Oh, but it is SJW, it is. You see, using the curious logic of WTAWorld I deduce that you wouldn't be making the effort to respond to me if you didn't find my posts funny in some way. That, and I get too much positive rep not to continue with this egregious posting style of mine...

ahhhhhhhh thats what it is........rep whore :p

Hendouble
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:49 PM
Actually, it's "bollocks", but your point is well taken.

SJW
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:50 PM
btw: calling tennis players who earn millions a year stupid only makes urself look MOREso :rolleyes:

Hendouble
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:51 PM
Oh no, SJW - I was employing this unique style long before the concept of reputation points became a reality. They simply confirmed and validated what I was doing, I don't tailor what I say just to suit others.

fleemke³
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:52 PM
Henin's forehand is just now becoming solid this year, before it was nothing, and that backhand can still be pounded on. You see this year she has become so muscular because her natural gifts weren't enough to win. I think the Williams get slighted because everyone thinks they popped out of the womb muscular and in shape and powerful. They obviously work hard to keep up their physical conditioning. Their talent was recognized when they were 10 and 8. Sometimes I think people are too caught up in watching how hard the sisters hit the ball to pay attention to the intricasies(sp?) of their strategy and tactics on the court. Somehow people think, hitting the ball slow or with spin or slice automatically makes a player "smart" which is not true. Venus especially is smart enough to have figured out how to beat a tough player like Henin 7 straight times. Those weren't really easy victories either some were 2 sets, but others were 3 grueling sets. The difference between Venus, Henin, and Clijsters is that Venus has figured out each opponent and how to play them. Venus is obviously mentally tougher, and she changes her strategies on the court better than the Belgians. Kim didn't change anything up when Venus countered her at Wimby, also in 2002 when Justine was up 6-2, 4-0 on Venus at Amelia, she didn't change tactics when Venus started to make her comeback. They are just like deer in headlights. This is what setst the talent of Venus apart from the Belgians. You can have all the natural gifts you want, but you have to have the brain power and skill to use them effectively. Venus has developed this.

Well maybe Venu is smarter but she has a lot more matches played yet on the highest level! The Justine who lost against Venus 2-3 years ago isn't the same as the Jsutine who beat Serena twice this year!
And I meant that Justine can do everything with here racket and very easy!

Hendouble
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:55 PM
btw: calling tennis players who earn millions a year stupid only makes urself look MOREso :rolleyes:

Not really - intelligence isn't an essential quality for earning millions, as many moronic company executives and spoilt heiresses have proved in the past. I'll bet I'm more intelligent than a lot of tennis players out there, the difference is I'm not as talented or as strong-willed as them. Well, OK, I'm not talented or strong-willed at all in comparison to them, but I bet I could beat a couple of them at Trivial Pursuit.

DA FOREHAND
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:55 PM
. She is without a doubt the most stupid #1 player in the history of women's tennis, IMHO


Capriati? I'm not gonna call any top player stupid, but Monica was never known as a tacticul genius either.

bandabou
Jul 30th, 2003, 08:59 PM
And since that Amelia match Justine hasn“t taken a single set off Venus.

SJW
Jul 30th, 2003, 09:02 PM
Not really - intelligence isn't an essential quality for earning millions, as many moronic company executives and spoilt heiresses have proved in the past. I'll bet I'm more intelligent than a lot of tennis players out there, the difference is I'm not as talented or as strong-willed as them. Well, OK, I'm not talented or strong-willed at all in comparison to them, but I bet I could beat a couple of them at Trivial Pursuit.

someone who earns that much--> isnt stupid. now David Beckham might not be the brightest sod to grace the planet bless him, but golden balls is a VERY VERY smart mofo

Knizzle
Jul 30th, 2003, 09:03 PM
As the British would say: BOLLOX!!! Deer in the headlights, really! That's exactly what Venus Williams looked like when she played Martina Hingis and Lindsay Davenport and lost regularly for a long time until new coaching (yes, she gets it regularly and never gives credit where credit is due) taught her to cut down on the unforced errors and simply rely on her athleticism to run down everything and expect to have to hit winners on the dead run all the time. She is without a doubt the most stupid #1 player in the history of women's tennis, IMHO

First off all if you have to call her stupid, the you are ignorant yourself. You're right, early on Venus did look lost on the court against Hingis and Davenport, but right around 99 she started to figure them out, and totally dominated Davenport from then on. Hingis was a tougher cookie to handle because SHE ran down all the balls, but eventually Venus figrued out how to beat her consistently. Like I said in my post earlier, Venus DEVELOPED her game and her strategies against each individual player.

tennisIlove09
Jul 30th, 2003, 09:05 PM
Clay-Justine-Serena-Kim
Grass-Venus-Serena-Justine
Hard-Serena/Venus-Kim

Over all

Serena
Venus
Kim
Justine

DA FOREHAND
Jul 30th, 2003, 09:05 PM
The turning point In Venus and Martina's rivalry was when Venus outrallied Martina on her home surface Swisscom Challenge.

Hendouble
Jul 30th, 2003, 09:06 PM
someone who earns that much--> isnt stupid. now David Beckham might not be the brightest sod to grace the planet bless him, but golden balls is a VERY VERY smart mofo

Yes, you make a good point... in fact, when I said intelligent, I should have said "knowledgeable". That's the real key difference. I'll bet I could certainly thrash quite a lot of players with a Trivial Pursuit round on literature, if only because seemingly every player has a pathological aversion to reading - I cite Henman's "Nah, I don't like it, it's boring."

Knizzle
Jul 30th, 2003, 09:07 PM
Well maybe Venu is smarter but she has a lot more matches played yet on the highest level! The Justine who lost against Venus 2-3 years ago isn't the same as the Jsutine who beat Serena twice this year!
And I meant that Justine can do everything with here racket and very easy!

I agree Justine has gained vast experience in the last 2 years, but she won the French so there are no excuses for her now. She has crossed over to the dark side(i.e. slam winners/big match winners) :devil: By the way Venus defeated her 6-3, 6-3 this year at the Australian.

villa
Jul 30th, 2003, 09:07 PM
As the British would say: BOLLOX!!! Deer in the headlights, really! That's exactly what Venus Williams looked like when she played Martina Hingis and Lindsay Davenport and lost regularly for a long time until new coaching (yes, she gets it regularly and never gives credit where credit is due) taught her to cut down on the unforced errors and simply rely on her athleticism to run down everything and expect to have to hit winners on the dead run all the time. She is without a doubt the most stupid #1 player in the history of women's tennis, IMHO


I'm afraid your talking bollox! what do you mean venus had to cut down her errors and run everything down expecting to hit winners on the run to beat lindsay and hingis? you make this sound like a bad thing- what do you expect her do? don't run the balls down?!! and even when she does to not hit winners but instead give her opponent an opurtunity to win the point!!!- dumbass- to do what venus does requires talent- if it didn't than your girl martina would have succeded at her attempted power play in 2002 when she beefed up and everyone was telling she would never win another slam looping shots into court...

i hate the way people always refer to players who haven't got much pace on shots as more talented- surely it is much harder to hit really hard shots accurately down the lines than slicing shots back into court- it is for me- i can play the conchita and hingis loopey forehands quite easily- its the power shots which require more controll/skill/timing to correct....

cool bird
Jul 30th, 2003, 09:15 PM
Well i have just got say I dont think that Justine is the most taltented on the wta tour. For me that crown would have to go to Patty Synder.
I think over all if we are talking about third best player in tennis I would have to go with Kim i think in the long run Kim will be better then Justine.
As for the Williams when they are playing there best tennis i can see nobody on the womens tour who can touch them. I think Kim and Justine will beat them from time to time. But really Venus and Serena just do every thing better then Kim and Justine.
But to me the scary thing is i still think there is improvement in both Sisters. I feel maybe Serena is starting to reach her peak now. but with Venus I still fell nobody has seen the best of her yet and i hope that one day we will see it.
And when that comes I will then tell you who I think the number 1 player is

hinquit
Jul 30th, 2003, 09:15 PM
As the British would say: BOLLOX!!! Deer in the headlights, really! That's exactly what Venus Williams looked like when she played Martina Hingis and Lindsay Davenport and lost regularly for a long time until new coaching (yes, she gets it regularly and never gives credit where credit is due) taught her to cut down on the unforced errors and simply rely on her athleticism to run down everything and expect to have to hit winners on the dead run all the time. She is without a doubt the most stupid #1 player in the history of women's tennis, IMHO

Look at the time you took off your basic schedule to write this stupidness. And you think Venus is the stupid #1 player in history.
Your low life will never carry you anywhere. Find something to
do for yourself and foreget about Venus.

"Topaz"
Jul 30th, 2003, 09:55 PM
I'm amazed Justine gets 50% more votes than Kim as 3rd best player. Perhaps I shouldn't be, she's ranked #3 after all. Oh, boy!

justine&coria
Jul 30th, 2003, 10:03 PM
Kim, with Justine 2nd !!

SJW
Jul 30th, 2003, 10:06 PM
I'm amazed Justine gets 50% more votes than Kim as 3rd best player. Perhaps I shouldn't be, she's ranked #3 after all. Oh, boy!

Kim is the second best player right now

"Topaz"
Jul 30th, 2003, 10:54 PM
Kim is the second best player right nowFair enough. For a moment, suppose both Kim and Venus were healthy and were about to play each other, which one would you expect to win?

bandabou
Jul 30th, 2003, 11:01 PM
Fair enough. For a moment, suppose both Kim and Venus were healthy and were about to play each other, which one would you expect to win?

Now THAT“s is a question! A healthy Kim vs a healthy Venus: Who wins?! Hmmm....does the name Williams ring a bell!

moon
Jul 30th, 2003, 11:02 PM
Overall, Serena, Venus, then Kim.
This year, Serena, Justine, Kim

btw--if Venus plays Kim, and both are healthy, I'd expect Venus to win. :) No matter what the surface.

rottweily
Jul 30th, 2003, 11:03 PM
If it's based on true talent there's no way Venus would be below justine, or Kim.

Then Justine would be number 1 of course.

greg²
Jul 30th, 2003, 11:14 PM
clay: justine-Kim-Serena
Grass: serena - venus - Justine
indoor: Kim - Serena (if she plays :rolleyes:) - Lindsay
HC: Serena - Venus - Kim

Knizzle
Jul 30th, 2003, 11:16 PM
clay: justine-Kim-Serena
Grass: serena - venus - Justine
indoor: Kim - Serena (if she plays :rolleyes:) - Lindsay
HC: Serena - Venus - Kim


Kim isn't better than Venus or Serena on clay. Once again, Kim isn't better than Venus or Serena on indoor harcourts. The rest I agree with.

bandabou
Jul 30th, 2003, 11:25 PM
clay: justine-Kim-Serena
Grass: serena - venus - Justine
indoor: Kim - Serena (if she plays :rolleyes:) - Lindsay
HC: Serena - Venus - Kim

Kim above Serena on clay?! Where“s the French title?!

"Topaz"
Aug 1st, 2003, 04:12 PM
Here are some raw data that could help. The players have been ordered according to avg. Given that we are 2/3 through the tour year, these data do tell something.

Porsche Race to the Championships - 7/28/2003

name points tr avg

SERENA WILLIAMS 3916 7 559.4
VENUS WILLIAMS 2211 6 368.5
KIM CLIJSTERS 4136 12 344.7
JUSTINE HENIN-HARDENNE 3743 11 340.3
AMELIE MAURESMO 1607 9 178.6
LINDSAY DAVENPORT 1890 11 171.8
JENNIFER CAPRIATI 1705 12 142.1

SJW
Aug 1st, 2003, 07:13 PM
Fair enough. For a moment, suppose both Kim and Venus were healthy and were about to play each other, which one would you expect to win?

you missed my point. ive already said that Venus is overall the second best player in the world

Kim is the second best player right now. this year she has owned the non slams. but if she faced Venus at the US.....9 times out of 10 Venus would kill her (not literally but she would win ;))

ok imma do my list

clay-Henin (apparently :angel: ) Serena Kim/Venus
grass-Venus (4 wimby finals in a row? :eek: ) Serena Kim/Henin
HC- Serena Venus Kim..............................Henin
indoor-Serena Venus Kim Henin
overall-Serena Venus Kim Henin

Juju_fan
Aug 1st, 2003, 07:18 PM
Here are some raw data that could help. The players have been ordered according to avg. Given that we are 2/3 through the tour year, these data do tell something.

Porsche Race to the Championships - 7/28/2003

name points tr avg

SERENA WILLIAMS 3916 7 559.4
VENUS WILLIAMS 2211 6 368.5
KIM CLIJSTERS 4136 12 344.7
JUSTINE HENIN-HARDENNE 3743 11 340.3
AMELIE MAURESMO 1607 9 178.6
LINDSAY DAVENPORT 1890 11 171.8
JENNIFER CAPRIATI 1705 12 142.1

The average points mean nothing: if you play only the slams, and you do well there, of course you'll get better average because there's more points to win at them! Now, if someone wins every Tier II or Tier I they play, they can't average more than 350 pts/tournament for obvious reasons!

The more you play lower events, the more your average is lower. Does that mean the players who do that perform worse? Not necessarily!

SJW
Aug 1st, 2003, 07:26 PM
but arent the slams what matter?? to me i would prefer Melbourne to Moscow and London to Linz ;)

Dava
Aug 1st, 2003, 07:26 PM
Venus

Diya
Aug 1st, 2003, 07:30 PM
Justine is # 3 for me behind Kim and Serena

Lady
Aug 1st, 2003, 07:33 PM
Kim, Justine is the 2nd

"Topaz"
Aug 1st, 2003, 07:50 PM
The average points mean nothing: if you play only the slams, and you do well there, of course you'll get better average because there's more points to win at them! Now, if someone wins every Tier II or Tier I they play, they can't average more than 350 pts/tournament for obvious reasons!

The more you play lower events, the more your average is lower. Does that mean the players who do that perform worse? Not necessarily!
Understood; this is why I clearly indicated:Given that we are 2/3 through the tour year... So far, we've had 3 slams, numerous Tier-1's and Tier-2's. Based on that, I stand by my statement to the effect that an avg at this point does carry meaningful info.

Brαm
Aug 1st, 2003, 08:56 PM
1. Serena: duh...
2. Venus: her play against Kim this year gives her the nod.
3. Kim: most consistent and I think she“s better than Justine on surfaces other than clay.
I agree!

( :eek: )

Primula
Aug 1st, 2003, 10:38 PM
1. Serena
2. Kim (if Kim can win the US OPEN, I count them both as the best player of this year!)
3.Venus

SJW
Aug 1st, 2003, 10:59 PM
1 slam is equal to 2?? :confused:

then Henin and Clijsters deserve to be rated the best with Serena ;)

nahhhh i get what u mean, Kim has OWNED the lower levels this year (lower as in non slams lol :))

"Topaz"
Aug 4th, 2003, 04:18 AM
Post Acura-03 final, who really is the third best in your mind, say, after healthy Serena and Venus?

Gowza
Aug 4th, 2003, 04:30 AM
obviously serena, venus, kim and justine are the top 4 but in what order?

i think there is no doubt based on results that serena is the #1 as she has won 2 of the 3 slams this year. if we o one grand slams won then henin is next but venus has bee to 2 of the 3 finals this year. but venus hasn't done that well outside the slams so imo that has to put henin in front of venus, of course justine lost to venus in their only match this year but we have to do this on overall results (even though i believe venus is the better player). but we also have kim, shen hasn't won a grand slam but she's been to a final and 2 semis, that's not a grand slam win but she has done extremely well outside the grand slams. the big question is: do grand slams mean more? imo yes because they are the highest regarded tournaments and are usually the toughest to win based on competition and the length of time the tournament goes for. so for that puts kim at #4. which means imo #3 is between venus and justine. since venus hasn't won a slam and justine has plus justine has done a bit better outside the grand slams then that makes up for venus' final spots in those 2 grand slams so i guess i put justine ahead of venus, which means i put venus at #3.

ASTRID
Aug 4th, 2003, 07:08 AM
SERENA

venus
kim
justine