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AmErIcAn
Jul 28th, 2003, 11:06 PM
Before all u lovely belgians and kim fans have a go at me understand what im saying.

Kim is a lovely girl she cute and sweet, fantastic player, but she hasnt got what Venus or Serena have got or martina, Jelena or Jennifer have in abundance. (even juju, and to a lesser extent)

That is slight arrogance charisma controversy. which is what makes the tour what it is.
The best years of the tour imo and ive only really watched tennis for about 8/9 years. Was the 99,00,01 seasons when Martina and Serena were having it out at press conferences. Hingis calling Amelie half man. Richard Williams being a fool. jen being a bitch. All this was great to observe and to me Kim lacks this and is therefore to me unexciting. The prospect of a Jen serena match or a Martina Venus match is much more mouth watering than a kim serena match or a kim Jen match.

Her play is great dont get me wrong, but shes too gracious in defeat she dosent want revenge on people and those are the qualities that make things more interseting.

As for her being number 1 in the world...interesting got the talent to do it but i dont think she has the ruthlessness yet, I mean Monica is a nice person but when she was no1 she wasnt as nice as she is now. she had that slight arrogance.

Some of ya'll will agree others will think im taking crap. this is just my opinion!

angele87
Jul 28th, 2003, 11:22 PM
I'm kinda :confused: here... your post doesn't seem to have anything to do with the question asked in the thread title. Does Kim have charisma? I would say yes but others are bound to disagree. It's a matter of personal opinion imo. Now as for your post, is Kim ever nasty or contervery-causing? Definetly not. Is she arrogant? Not at all! But imo, I don't think causing conterversy and being arrogant have anything to do with charisma :confused:

Jeff
Jul 28th, 2003, 11:32 PM
Nothing wrong with your opinion, but I disagree. Kim is chrasmatic, and although she is not bitchy, she is indeed very intelligent, confident and determined, which shows in the way she does her interviews, as well as the way she plays.

As far as unexciting, well I think what makes the tour exciting overall, is the contrasting styles and personalities of all the players. Kim is definetly no exception, and in fact I think the fact that she is such a good player, so talented and so competitive...yet remains composed, generous, nice--but yet also confident, is what makes Kim a very popular and important player on the tour.

angele87
Jul 28th, 2003, 11:34 PM
Nothing wrong with your opinion, but I disagree. Kim is chrasmatic, and although she is not bitchy, she is indeed very intelligent, confident and determined, which shows in the way she does her interviews, as well as the way she plays.

As far as unexciting, well I think what makes the tour exciting overall, is the contrasting styles and personalities of all the players. Kim is definetly no exception, and in fact I think the fact that she is such a good player, so talented and so competitive...yet remains composed, generous, nice--but yet also confident, is what makes Kim a very popular and important player on the tour.
:worship: Good post :yeah:

fammmmedspin
Jul 28th, 2003, 11:38 PM
charisma has nothing necessarily to do with arrogance. Being arrogant is a total turn off to many - particularly if the person seems awful enough to believe in their own arrogance. Charisma is in the eye of the beholder. Bob Hope had it. Martina H has it, Ronald Reagan had it and according to the polls even G W Bush has it.

AmErIcAn
Jul 28th, 2003, 11:39 PM
i looked it up in the dictionary and charisma means personal quality which impresses and excites.

I guess it was a bad choice of word cause yeah kim does that with her play.

what im really trying to say is in my post kim to me hasnt got the same appeal as others. as shes too inoffensive and sweet. OK thats nice but it dosent excite me im sure it might excite others but not me and im sure many others too.

Hawk
Jul 28th, 2003, 11:40 PM
Nothing wrong with your opinion, but I disagree. Kim is chrasmatic, and although she is not bitchy, she is indeed very intelligent, confident and determined, which shows in the way she does her interviews, as well as the way she plays.

As far as unexciting, well I think what makes the tour exciting overall, is the contrasting styles and personalities of all the players. Kim is definetly no exception, and in fact I think the fact that she is such a good player, so talented and so competitive...yet remains composed, generous, nice--but yet also confident, is what makes Kim a very popular and important player on the tour.

Very well put Jeff..I totally agree :)

Bezz
Jul 28th, 2003, 11:40 PM
I think that fact that kim is modest and such a nice player adds another dimension to the womens tour, its good to have the range of personalities. I wouldn't want a tour full of jenn's and serena's (althought it would be interesting), but i also wouldnt like a tour full of sugiyama's and kims, that would be a bit boring.

sartrista7
Jul 28th, 2003, 11:42 PM
Kim is an even better cure for insomnia than a Coetzer-Martinez match-up.

Crazy Canuck
Jul 29th, 2003, 02:52 AM
Kim is an even better cure for insomnia than a Coetzer-Martinez match-up.
Essentially.

See, when I first started getting into tennis as more than a casual fan, I found LIndsay Davenport to be a big snooze. Once I learned that she had a bit of bitch in her, she grew on me. Same applies for Kim, except that i'm yet to discover her inner bitch and somehow doubt I ever will. Which is fine... we can't all be super bitches. :cool:

disposablehero
Jul 29th, 2003, 03:03 AM
Yes, Kim lacks An American Passport charisma.

Lisbeth
Jul 29th, 2003, 03:04 AM
Well, I'm confused about what charisma is, since I thought it meant the ability to draw people to you, a personal attractiveness if you like - yet the person everyone in the media is using it about lately is Andy Roddick, about whom nothing attracts me. I mean, nice enough kid but he just doesn't impress me as having any great feature which draws me to watch him, or for that matter particularly want to meet him :confused: . So although the dictionary definiton is just fine, I guess it's entirely personal what features you find "charismatic".

Either way, if Kimmy lacks it then it's not something one would want anway ;) :)

¤CharlDa¤
Jul 29th, 2003, 03:47 AM
I completely agree with that first post..she lacks something...

Rocketta
Jul 29th, 2003, 03:50 AM
Kim is an even better cure for insomnia than a Coetzer-Martinez match-up.

this about sums it up for me.......;)

Hawk
Jul 29th, 2003, 03:51 AM
I think both Serena and Hingis have a 'look at me' :D type of personality...I believe they both really liked the spotlight. That is what Kim is probably lacking..I think Venus is like Kim in that respect too..she doesn't crave the spotlight.

Nothing wrong with either..Serena and Marti were just more publicly recognized as a result of their personalities..people outside tennis have probably heard of them..while I doubt many outside of tennis know who Kim is.

alexusjonesfan
Jul 29th, 2003, 03:54 AM
I completely agree with that first post..she lacks something...

my guess would be a bandwagon driven by the american media...

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 29th, 2003, 03:54 AM
Kim is a lovely girl. She's nice. She's kind. She's sweet. She's nice. She's kind. She's sweet. She's nice.

Well thats all well and good for the woman you want to take home to meet your parents but for a top female athlete its the death knell of publicity, exposure, and most imporantly attracting casual fans. What casual fan knows who the hell kim clijsters is and then once they know do they care? Not the ones I've spoken too.

Venus they love.

Serena they love.

Jen they love.

Anna they love.

Martina they love.

You have to have some spark of personality or at least and edge. Kim sadly has neither but she has more than justine who comes across as blank piece of slate or worse a pre recorded message set on repeat.

Hawk
Jul 29th, 2003, 03:57 AM
my guess would be a bandwagon driven by the american media...

That too...you've got to admit if Kim was American everyone would know who she is.

alexusjonesfan
Jul 29th, 2003, 03:57 AM
justine who comes across as blank piece of slate or worse a pre recorded message set on repeat.
poor Justine...maybe she could get some advice on 'how not to be plain' from people on this board?

disposablehero
Jul 29th, 2003, 03:58 AM
Kim doesn't talk trash has no personality.

Rocketta
Jul 29th, 2003, 04:01 AM
Kim doesn't talk trash has no personality.

yup and that equals "slightly" boring to many.

Crazy Canuck
Jul 29th, 2003, 04:01 AM
Few of my favourites are American, few of them trash talk, and I STILL find Kim boring. It's a matter of personal preference... for the most part.

G_Slammed
Jul 29th, 2003, 04:08 AM
I think both Serena and Hingis have a 'look at me' type of personality...I believe they both really liked the spotlight.

Noooooooo... I just can't believe that's true Hawk. ;)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20030728/mdf325592.jpg

jd4eva
Jul 29th, 2003, 04:14 AM
kim puts me to sleep :)

Hawk
Jul 29th, 2003, 04:18 AM
Noooooooo... I just can't believe that's true Hawk. ;)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20030728/mdf325592.jpg

I know shocking information, isn't it? :eek: :p

Volcana
Jul 29th, 2003, 04:26 AM
Well, there's charisma and there's American charisma, which we'll abbreviate as $$$CHARI$MA!!!$$$.

Kim has charisma. She someone most players have a definite opinion about and it's universally positive.

What Kim doesn't have is $$$CHARI$MA!!!$$$. Which the cynical might read to mean she's not easily packaged into an easily sale-able, easily digestible mental stereotype, preferable with overt sexuality in play, that the Vast Forces of American Marketing know they can make a fortune exploiting. Not that I'M one of the cynical, no not me. I go to Anna Kournikova matches to read the articles.

The only thing about Kim that seemed like there might be a story in it, is that she was apparently sleeping with Hewitt when she was 17. (Illegal here and there). But her parents were always around and seemed so thoroughly approving and normal and there only like a two year age difference between Kim and Lleyton and the whole thing went nowhere scandal-wise.

She's a well-spoke young lady who's extremely good at what she does. She's extremely well compensated, and has as much financial security as one can reasonably hope for with so much of life ahead. She's publicly commmitted to one person of whom her parents approve. She nevers says anything stupid. She never says anything mean. And she's perfectly willing to admit she has a lot to learn.

Where's the $$$CHARI$MA!!!$$$ in that?

There's no traction for the Vast Forces of American Marketing to exploit. Nice doesn't get it done. I don't care how many people like and respect you, those are the things we exploit to make money. $$$CHARI$MA!!!$$$ is magazine covers, and hours signing autographs, and appearances in movies and TV shows and sooner and later, so poor fool seeking $$$CHARI$MA!!!$$$, or even worse thinking they have it, will release a CD. I can hardly wait. The only way things could be worse would be if actually MARRIED Hewitt. The press would forget she existed, except at GS time. If she was single, things might be different. She has thunder thighs, true, but one of the Great Hidden Justices of the Universe, is that a lot of guys go for that. You turn some West Coast rappers loose with some Kimmie video for inspiration and you'd get uh... highly sale-able verse that maybe Lleyton shouldn't hear.

Why do you think American media loves Capraiti, the Williams sisters, even Anna K? It's the built in story. Easy $$$CHARI$MA!!!$$$. Look at Lance Armstrong. Cancer Survivor story. Yao Ming. He only has a large percentage of a quarter of the people on the PLANET hanging on his every move during the basketball season. Turns out he's a sharp and funny guy, but he was a star in commercials before anybody knew if he could play. Circumstances MADE him a star.

When you've got the Williams Sisters hype, and Capriati/Phoenix-from-the-Ashes hype, and the Amelie/Lesbian hype, Justine just one her 1st GS title. This is a BIG deal! Let's be foresquare. With all those easy to exploit for cheap revenue stories around, how many stories about how much the other players like Kim can you write?

If you can be fit into something close to one of the pre-determined molds, or create a REALLY good new, the media will cheerfully assured everyone you have $$$CHARI$MA!!!$$$.

Venus is reticent. So what, the media's beenhandling that for years. She grew up in public and made it out alive. They know how to write her story. All she has to do is not do anything too controversial. And she's got Serena to cover her now. She;s got all the $$$CHARI$MA!!!$$$ she could possibly need.

Serena makes it easy. She likes all the superstar stuff and knows how to play it. And she's got this Diana (the goddess, not the princess) / perfect body thing, AMD the Playboy, perfect body thing, AND the good-girl religious thing, AND the oh-my-God-do-you-see-what-she-has-on?

Jenn makes it easy too, but not in a way that helps Jenn. Everytime Jenn curses people remember she wound up in jail. The whole story, just hanging around to be exploited for cash. Again. Nobody has to work. Nobody has to know the game. Nobody has to write worth a good goddamn. Perish the fucking thought we'd see a national movement toward RESEARCH, thank you. Hey, how about one of you talking heads giving an opinion on why she hasn't even won a Tier II in 18 months.

No, none of that. Jenn is a star. She has $$$CHARI$MA!!!$$$. Who needs information?

Find me an image I already know how to exploit, and I'll give you $$$CHARI$MA!!!$$$. If you want to find out who the players and the people who run the tour look up to and respect, good luck. If we can't sell it, we don't tell it.

Hawk
Jul 29th, 2003, 04:32 AM
The only thing about Kim that seemed like there might be a story in it, is that she was apparently sleeping with Hewitt when she was 17. (Illegal here and there). But her parents were always around and seemed so thoroughly approving and normal and there only like a two year age difference between Kim and Lleyton and the whole thing went nowhere scandal-wise.

Did I miss something?..was there an actual story about this or are you just saying that there could have been a story about it?

treufreund
Jul 29th, 2003, 04:41 AM
I think Kim is great, has charisma and that most of you are cynics. Maybe when someone is as kind as kim you are threatened.

disposablehero
Jul 29th, 2003, 04:44 AM
She has thunder thighs, true, but one of the Great Hidden Justices of the Universe, is that a lot of guys go for that. You turn some West Coast rappers loose with some Kimmie video for inspiration and you'd get uh... highly sale-able verse that maybe Lleyton shouldn't hear.


Actually, the whole post deserves an approve but this part clinched it.

irma
Jul 29th, 2003, 04:49 AM
when serena is not "gracious" in defeat people are whining, kim is "gracious" in defeat and people are still whining"

what do people want :lol:

and kim is fine the way she is anyway :o

BasicTennis
Jul 29th, 2003, 04:51 AM
Kim has the charisma that's why Lleyton is doing his best to keep her.:devil:

alexusjonesfan
Jul 29th, 2003, 05:00 AM
when serena is not "gracious" in defeat people are whining, kim is "gracious" in defeat and people are still whining"

what do people want :lol:

and kim is fine the way she is anyway :o

don't ever suggest again that there can be life beyond whining! :mad:

BasicTennis
Jul 29th, 2003, 05:15 AM
don't ever suggest again that there can be life beyond whining! :mad:
it's all in your mind lady. :p

CondiLicious
Jul 29th, 2003, 05:16 AM
As for her being number 1 in the world...interesting got the talent to do it but i dont think she has the ruthlessness yet, I mean Monica is a nice person but when she was no1 she wasnt as nice as she is now. she had that slight arrogance.

she wasn't arrogant. She was a kid and didn't really have any idea that everything she said would be twisted. She was nice back then as well though.

alexusjonesfan
Jul 29th, 2003, 05:33 AM
it's all in your mind lady. :p

what the hell? I'm a man :mad: :lol:

BasicTennis
Jul 29th, 2003, 05:37 AM
what the hell? I'm a man :mad: :lol:
then stop whining.:lol:

alexusjonesfan
Jul 29th, 2003, 05:40 AM
then stop whining.:lol:

:tape:

Lisbeth
Jul 29th, 2003, 05:52 AM
Well, there's charisma and there's American charisma, which we'll abbreviate as $$$CHARI$MA!!!$$$.

Just wanted to say this is a very insightful and fair minded post.

Volcana
Jul 29th, 2003, 10:46 AM
Did I miss something?..was there an actual story about this or are you just saying that there could have been a story about it?

Therer were stories about it. But with parental approval and everyone being up front, it wasn't a STORY. Just another boring fact.

Dava
Jul 29th, 2003, 10:49 AM
:confused:

Kim as a player when on court, is not a gracefull and charismatic player to watch, but then I dont think Venus is either, but yes all the other players have a certain flamboince, even Jelena and Serena, whos styles sometimes look unconfortable, but to me also seem graceful.

I think thats what you mean anyway

sartrista7
Jul 29th, 2003, 10:55 AM
Few of my favourites are American, few of them trash talk, and I STILL find Kim boring. It's a matter of personal preference... for the most part.

Ditto.

Volcana's charisma vs $$$CHARI$MA$$$ point is an excellent one. Very few of my faves have the latter (although I maintain that the majority of WTA players have the potential for it... you can market anything to the masses if you put enough effort in), but the thing with Kim is that I just find her profoundly uninteresting beyond the dogs-looking-like-their-owners resemblance to Hewitt. Justine, Nastya and Lina don't exactly have $$$CHARI$MA$$$, but they've all got something compelling about them.

SJW
Jul 29th, 2003, 11:31 AM
if more player were like Kim, the tour would be a great place.

ppl say shes boring, i would beg to differ. in her interviews shes so hyper its like shes taken something. i find her interviews interesting to watch, English isnt her first language but shes confident in it and doesnt stop talking.

ppl go on about how she has no personality blah blah blah. i think she has been mistaken for most of the REST of the top 10 :tape:

vamos Kim :bounce:

Fantastic
Jul 29th, 2003, 02:38 PM
Hardly any of the players have charisma. The most recent exceptions would be Venus Williams, Anna Kournikova and Steffi Graf. But then, they're tennis players, not actors in the entertainment biz who've been chosen to sell a movie.

Hendouble
Jul 29th, 2003, 02:57 PM
It may not, you know, be charisma or anything, but she definitely has a certain sort of presence, you know, because she likes to just blabber on with her voice getting ever higher, you know, in that sort of, you know, clipped Flemish tone, that goes higher and higher until she's just, you know, rambling on in an apparently mindless but terribly endearing way that just makes her, you know, quite adorable. You know, it really does.

SJW
Jul 29th, 2003, 02:59 PM
It may not, you know, be charisma or anything, but she definitely has a certain sort of presence, you know, because she likes to just blabber on with her voice getting ever higher, you know, in that sort of, you know, clipped Flemish tone, that goes higher and higher until she's just, you know, rambling on in an apparently mindless but terribly endearing way that just makes her, you know, quite adorable. You know, it really does.

touché ;)

Hendouble
Jul 29th, 2003, 03:02 PM
SJW, I only learn from the master... or mistress in your case, though that doesn't sound quite as good...

SJW
Jul 29th, 2003, 03:04 PM
i would never have the guts or the wit to do something like that good sir ;)

disposablehero
Jul 29th, 2003, 03:17 PM
:confused:

Kim as a player when on court, is not a gracefull and charismatic player to watch, but then I dont think Venus is either, but yes all the other players have a certain flamboince, even Jelena and Serena, whos styles sometimes look unconfortable, but to me also seem graceful.

I think thats what you mean anyway

:confused: Are we talking about the same Kim? She isn't exactly tripping over her feet out there.

AmErIcAn
Jul 29th, 2003, 05:29 PM
:) Great post Volcana!

and to of ya'll who suspect im not loving Kim because shes not American...well hell your probably right!
just joking no but yeah the American market are not attracted to Kim but that cos of the way she is so nice and we Americans like a bit of spunk you know!!

fifiricci
Jul 29th, 2003, 05:58 PM
:) Great post Volcana!

and to of ya'll who suspect im not loving Kim because shes not American...well hell your probably right!
just joking no but yeah the American market are not attracted to Kim but that cos of the way she is so nice and we Americans like a bit of spunk you know!!

Yeah and you also voted in George W Bush, so who are you to judge!!! :haha:

disposablehero
Jul 30th, 2003, 04:15 AM
:) Great post Volcana!

and to of ya'll who suspect im not loving Kim because shes not American...well hell your probably right!
just joking no but yeah the American market are not attracted to Kim but that cos of the way she is so nice and we Americans like a bit of spunk you know!!

Yes, I've noticed this. I've downloaded a good number of American movies, and the girls in them seem to invariably like a bit of "spunk".

tennisjam
Jul 30th, 2003, 11:56 AM
No, her charisma is just being the way she is...

timray
Dec 14th, 2005, 04:17 PM
Kim has the charisma that's why Lleyton is doing his best to keep her.:devil:

:lol:

esquímaux
Dec 15th, 2005, 03:42 AM
Kim :D!

jamesuk
Dec 15th, 2005, 04:09 PM
For me it is more that I find it difficult to want to see Kim lose when she is playing someone who I want to win. Take Lindsay at the Frenchandat Wimby. In both matches I was really hoping for a Lindsay win, and knew how difficult a win would be. Normally in that situation I am totally hyped up and all against the other player,but seeing it was kim, and knowing how nice she seems to be, I couldnt drum up that emotion. But that it certainly not saying anything negative about Kim as a person.

The same happens to a lesser extent with Amelie Mauresmo. With her though, it is easier for me to feel worried tht she may win because of her creative and at times unpredictable game. But then there is always the thought in the back of my mind that she does seem to be a really nice person, so for me there is always less emotion in a matchwith her in than when Justine or serena play, who are much more obviously love or hate players.

I will say that Kim totally earned my respect by the way she hung on to win against Maria at the Open semis. the way Maria came back to win the second set was frightening, awesome stuff and I was convinced she would end up winning. But Kim held her nerve, and won my total respect in that match

Bubba08
Dec 15th, 2005, 04:14 PM
No :angel:

CanadianBoy21
Dec 15th, 2005, 06:42 PM
I think it's charismatic when she does those splits!

honeyke
Dec 15th, 2005, 07:06 PM
kim is very charismatic - on and offcourt i guess. she knows how to behave in front of the crowd,the press, her fans,etc. but every person describes CHARISMA in a different way,so i also understand some of the other opinions.

ptkten
Dec 15th, 2005, 07:17 PM
I think Kim can be a little more marketable in the U.S. because she speaks English well. Regardless, it's funny because even though she has no marketing charisma, all the people around her seem to think she has tons of charisma. The first word people often use to describe Kim is funny, which is a good sign of a charismatic person.

guyinsf
Dec 15th, 2005, 07:18 PM
Before you post, you should know the definition of "charisma". Sounds like you're confusing "charisma" for attitude, arrogance and drama. "Charisma" means prescence, one that attracts people to you. Kim already has that in my opinion!

LH2HBH
Dec 15th, 2005, 07:24 PM
Kim has one of the best personalities on tour and I think she has her own special, quiet charisma. I wouldn't change her!

LH2HBH
Dec 15th, 2005, 07:25 PM
Before you post, you should know the definition of "charisma". Sounds like you're confusing "charisma" for attitude, arrogance and drama. "Charisma" means prescence, one that attracts people to you. Kim already has that in my opinion!


exactly my point!