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DA FOREHAND
Jul 28th, 2003, 07:51 PM
Is this what we could have come to expect from a healthy Hingis, if she were still on the tour? A few wins against top ten players, and winning the titles when the biggest names weren't present? Or has Kim taken Hingis' game and evolved it for the modern game?



Serve: Kim
Return : Martina (slight edge)
Forehand: =Kim's is a weapon Martina's more consistant
Backhand: Martina(very slight edge)
Court Coverage: Kim(slight)
Net game : Hingis(hands down) :worship:
Mental : Hingis

I can't see Martina blowing, or losing a 5-1 final set lead, especially at the A.O.

shap_half
Jul 28th, 2003, 07:53 PM
Is this what we could have come to expect from a healthy Hingis, if she were still on the tour? A few wins against top ten players, and winning the titles when the biggest names weren't present? Or has Kim taken Hingis' game and evolved it for the modern game?



Serve: Kim
Return : Martina (slight edge)
Forehand: =Kim's is a weapon Martina's more consistant
Backhand: Martina(very slight edge)
Court Coverage: Kim(slight)
Net game : Hingis(hands down) :worship:
Mental : Hingis

I can't see Martina blowing, or losing a 5-1 final set lead, especially at the A.O.

love Martina! There is just no comparison between Kim and Martina...Martina has a court sense that Kim just doesn't have. And if Martina needs just one point to put Serena Williams away you'd better believe martina will stay on that ralley for as long as she needs to win that match.

irma
Jul 28th, 2003, 07:54 PM
no losing after 6:4 4:0 is was more impressive :o

martina is really the example of mental toughness :o

shap_half
Jul 28th, 2003, 07:55 PM
no losing after 6:4 4:0 is was more impressive :o

martina is really the example of mental toughness :o

well that was clearly just a lack of concentration in martina's part. and at 4-0 you're not exactly the winner.

mboyle
Jul 28th, 2003, 07:56 PM
Martina at the top of her game this is, Irma;) .

irma
Jul 28th, 2003, 08:02 PM
martina was on top of her game in januar 2002 and with 4 matchpoints you are in a winning position;)

bandabou
Jul 28th, 2003, 08:12 PM
Martina USED to be mentally though, but after the French final against Graf she completely lost it! The Oz final against is an example and the ī00 us open semi against Venus. How could she possibly miss that overhead?!

TonyP
Jul 28th, 2003, 08:13 PM
Hingis, a "few wins against top ten players."

You should work for the Bush administration, you are very good at changing the facts.

Hingis against Venus 10-9
Hingis against Serena 6-7
Hingis against Davenport 11-14
Hingis against Capriati 5-4
Hingis against Clijsters 4-1
Hingis against Henin 2-0
Hingis against Seles 17-5

DA FOREHAND
Jul 28th, 2003, 08:16 PM
zzzzzzzzzzz! I was talking about if she played today you himbo!

We all know she has good h2h against todays top players.

R.I.F.

alfajeffster
Jul 28th, 2003, 08:16 PM
Hingis, a "few wins against top ten players."

You should work for the Bush administration, you are very good at changing the facts.

Hingis against Venus 10-9
Hingis against Serena 6-7
Hingis against Davenport 11-14
Hingis against Capriati 5-4
Hingis against Clijsters 4-1
Hingis against Henin 2-0
Hingis against Seles 17-5


Graf is conspicuously missing...

Sofiane
Jul 28th, 2003, 09:16 PM
Graf is conspicuously missing...
Martina is 2-7 against Graf.

alfajeffster
Jul 28th, 2003, 09:18 PM
The 17-5 record against Seles is particularly interesting- especially since so many of those matches were lopsided blow-outs!

TonyP
Jul 28th, 2003, 11:19 PM
57-47. That's what Hingis' the head to head record total is in playing all the players I listed, including Graf. That's more than a few wins.

Now, what would the record be if a completely healthy Hingis were playing again?

Obviously, no one knows, any more than they would know what the record of a 25 year old Martina Navratilova would be against them, or a 25 year old Graf would be against them.

hingis-seles
Jul 28th, 2003, 11:35 PM
:worship:

hingis-seles
Jul 28th, 2003, 11:38 PM
Graf is conspicuously missing...

Graf is conspicuously missing from the list because the original post states "Is this what we could have come to expect from a healthy Hingis, if she were still on the tour?". Last I checked, Graf was not a part of the tour.

selesrules
Jul 28th, 2003, 11:44 PM
Hingis is 15-5 against Seles, not 17-5. But Monica started beating her more consistantly at the end, they split their last 6 matches including a spanking where Monica def. Hingis 6-4, 6-2 at the US Open. Too bad that Hingis retired because Monica was finally gaining some edge and had a shot to make the head-to-head closer. It's funny that Hingis played so many matches against Monica in 1997, 1999 when Monica was in a slump after injuries and Hingis at her best, but as soon as Hingis is in a slump after an injury, Monica gets to meet her only once and Hingis disappears. :rolleyes:

Ryan
Jul 28th, 2003, 11:49 PM
57-47. That's what Hingis' the head to head record total is in playing all the players I listed, including Graf. That's more than a few wins.

Now, what would the record be if a completely healthy Hingis were playing again?

Obviously, no one knows, any more than they would know what the record of a 25 year old Martina Navratilova would be against them, or a 25 year old Graf would be against them.

He was just saying if Hingis played today, she probably wouldn't be at the otp of the game. I doubt if Hingis played tennis again she would do anything less then completely re-tool her game and try to take herself to #1. One reason she retired was because she couldn't be at the top, so I don't think if she was still playing she would be as weak.


I agree with your assessment completely though, it's very accurate. I think Hingis healthy is mentally tougher then most, but afew matches in 2002 say otherwise.


And thank you hingis-seles, I didn't want to point out the obvious.

Ryan
Jul 28th, 2003, 11:50 PM
Hingis is 15-5 against Seles, not 17-5. But Monica started beating her more consistantly at the end, they split their last 6 matches including a spanking where Monica def. Hingis 6-4, 6-2 at the US Open. Too bad that Hingis retired because Monica was finally gaining some edge and had a shot to make the head-to-head closer. It's funny that Hingis played so many matches against Monica in 1997, 1999 when Monica was in a slump after injuries and Hingis at her best, but as soon as Hingis is in a slump after an injury, Monica gets to meet her only once and Hingis disappears. :rolleyes:


It's obvious Martina was petrified of Monica and high-tailed it out of there to avoid getting her ass thumped again. :)

Sonf@
Jul 29th, 2003, 01:53 AM
The best Hingis would bt the best Clijsters in straights

fammmmedspin
Jul 29th, 2003, 02:31 AM
How many players are playing better today than they were when Martina was last playing at her best?

Venus? Jennifer? Monica? Daniela? Jelena? Amelie? Lindsay?

Serena??

Justine, Kim?

Could Martina take KIm or Justine now - they are not super powerful but distinctly better than they were? Is Serena better or worse? Could Martina take the sick and falling members of the top 10? Everyone ranked 11-20? Or would she have problems with the Veras, Nadias and Svetlanas?

Martina with a new foot =Top 6???

Ryan
Jul 29th, 2003, 03:54 AM
How many players are playing better today than they were when Martina was last playing at her best?

Venus? Jennifer? Monica? Daniela? Jelena? Amelie? Lindsay?

Serena??

Justine, Kim?

Could Martina take KIm or Justine now - they are not super powerful but distinctly better than they were? Is Serena better or worse? Could Martina take the sick and falling members of the top 10? Everyone ranked 11-20? Or would she have problems with the Veras, Nadias and Svetlanas?

Martina with a new foot =Top 6???

Very interesting. Hingis with a new foot playing like she did during the AO 02 would challenge for the top 6. She wouldn't beat Serena at all IMO, maybe Venus on clay or Venus playing rusty on HC/Rebound. Kim and Justine would be the toss-ups for me. I think on clay their matches would be close, and Hingis might win 60% of those. On Redbound I'd pick Hingis in all their matches, but I don't think she'd win all. On grass it might be close with Justine? but I think Hingis wouldn't have too hard a time. On hardcourts I think she would own Justine, and have really close matches with Kim.

With Lindsay I think her mental edge over Hingis may win her their matches on grass, and on hardcourts I might give Lindsay a slight edge, so I think their matches would be 50/50.

With Jennifer I have no clue. Jenn is a headcase as of late, and I think her game would stack up well against Hingis for some reason. Mauresmo could also trouble Martina IMO.

Against everyone else I think Martina would win the majority on their matches.

DA FOREHAND
Jul 30th, 2003, 02:38 PM
Jenns confidence seems to spike when she plays Martina.

tennisjam
Jul 30th, 2003, 02:41 PM
If Martina was as strong and fast as Kim, without even having her power, she would still be the number 1...

DA FOREHAND
Jul 30th, 2003, 02:45 PM
I guess I didn't word it properly. I'm saying Kim has taken Martina's game, and evovled some aspects. She isn't even close in court sense, but she's damned consistant.
Has a better serve, forehand(???)

Ryan
Jul 30th, 2003, 02:53 PM
I guess I didn't word it properly. I'm saying Kim has taken Martina's game, and evovled some aspects. She isn't even close in court sense, but she's damned consistant.
Has a better serve, forehand(???)


Yeah, Kim has. Kim can run faster, hit her forehand and serve harder, and can pack heat on the run. She's also very consistant, but I think there are several aspects Martina is still better in. Kim NEEDS to get a better net game. She should be coming on a lot more against Serena/Venus and make them pass her.

DA FOREHAND
Jul 30th, 2003, 03:15 PM
I agree, my first post in this thread I tried to list ea. aspect of thier games and who was best.

I think Martina's "intangibles" are still better than Kim's.

Ryan
Jul 30th, 2003, 03:25 PM
I agree, my first post in this thread I tried to list ea. aspect of thier games and who was best.

I think Martina's "intangibles" are still better than Kim's.


Yes, I think so too. Winning 5 slams etc. sort of gives you (me anyway) a confidence in that players game and makes it easier to think they can win matches.

bandabou
Jul 30th, 2003, 03:41 PM
How can people compare Hingis to Kim?! Thereīs ONLY one Hingis! By the time Martina was Kimīs age she already had 5 slams and was no.1 for almost 3 years! Martina at her best vs Kim at her best is a no contest! Kim canīt beat the Williamses, whereas Hingis used to own Venus and had her monumental battles with Serena.