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SerenaSlam
Jul 28th, 2003, 04:26 PM
Hell I know Martina Hingis is the only player that has managed to beat both Venus and Serena in the same tournie. No-one (and probably never will) has ever beaten both Venus and Serena in the same tournie (not counting walkovers) But I was trying to think, over the past couple of years, there hasn't even been that many people winning tournies beating just 1 williams. That is just amazing stat for the sisters. When players do beat them, they have id say a less than 50% chance that they are going to go on and win the tournie.

DA FOREHAND
Jul 28th, 2003, 04:30 PM
ASV, Steffi Graf

Sydney

DA FOREHAND
Jul 28th, 2003, 04:30 PM
Both before Hingis managed that feat.

PointBlank
Jul 28th, 2003, 04:31 PM
alot of people propably did when they stunk back then.....

bandabou
Jul 28th, 2003, 04:32 PM
Itīs happened only four times in history and only three times legitly. ASV did it, Steffi did it at ī99 Sidney, Hingis did it at ī01 Oz open and Kim " did" it at last years championships. In fact Hingis is the only one who has beaten both of them at a slam.

PointBlank
Jul 28th, 2003, 04:32 PM
Hingis i believe is propably the only person who could and still can beat the williams sisters she just had this thing where she knew what to do when she played them

Ryan
Jul 28th, 2003, 04:35 PM
Hingis i believe is propably the only person who could and still can beat the williams sisters she just had this thing where she knew what to do when she played them


Except when she got wallpapered by them the last 5 times they played. :p

DA FOREHAND
Jul 28th, 2003, 04:35 PM
Please Serena was reg. schooling her, and Venus made up lots of h2h ground in 00/01

PointBlank
Jul 28th, 2003, 04:38 PM
b-cuz of her ankle if not she would beat them

bandabou
Jul 28th, 2003, 04:39 PM
I think Venus struggled more with Hingis than Serena did. Serena only once lost to Hingis at a slam, whereas Hingis usually owned Venus at the slams. Serena is a big-match player and she knows where and when to raise her level. Plus Iīve seen Serena totally and positively crush Hingis numerous times. Who can forget ī00 Montreal final where Serena won the first NINE games before getting injured?! Or the ī01 U.S. open semiīs?!

TonyP
Jul 28th, 2003, 05:05 PM
Serenaslam:

I have no idea what your exact point it. As noted by others, four players have beaten both Venus and Serena in the same tournament.

And what, exactly, makes that so special?

Williams fans are always talking about how the sisters should be treated as separate individuals, not lumped together as a group.

We are talking here about singles tennis, not doubles tennis. So a player's record against the sisters should be their record of playing them as individuals, not as a team.

Because, if they're working as a team in singles tennis, something is wrong.

I pointed out some years ago that Hingis and Davenport, back when they were numbers one and two in the world, could have pulled a Williams sister act and simply not played each other except in the grand slams.

But they didn't do that. One year, 2000, they faced each other in five finals, all of them big tournaments, (AO, Indian Wells, Miami, Zurich, Philadelphia.) But had they chosen to use a strategy of not meeting outside the slams, they both probably could have pulled very far ahead in the points race.

That's still my big knock against the Williams sisters, although I am no longer much concerned about them facing each other, because rarely do their meetings produce really good tennis, as the latest Wimbledon encountered once again proved.

Filip!
Jul 28th, 2003, 05:09 PM
SerenaSlam, you have to learn something! You have to admit and accept losses of your faves.

Everytime when Serena or Venus loses, you're searching for excuses: "oh she was tired", "oh she was injured", "oh blabla"... Only one thing counts, the result, nothing more, nothing less!!!

DA FOREHAND
Jul 28th, 2003, 05:19 PM
"I pointed out some years ago that Hingis and Davenport, back when they were numbers one and two in the world, could have pulled a Williams sister act and simply not played each other except in the grand slams."

Funny thing is they were 1 and 2 for a few years, yet only managed to reach two slam finals against each other 98 US Open, 00 Aus. Open, both won by Davenport.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 28th, 2003, 05:25 PM
I have to agree with the sentiment who cares if someone did or did not beat them in the same tournament. They are not a team in singles. If you beat one or both it is not some special achievement beyond beating two great players in a slam. It is no different than beating any other set of great players. as for scheduling goes would you schedule the same tournament as your sister or brother beyond the grandslams and super tier ones? Thats just stupid.

bandabou
Jul 28th, 2003, 05:43 PM
Good point, forehand. Lindsay and Hingis were no.1 and no.2 for so long but only two slam finals?! Contrast this to the Williams 6 slam finals already! In fact they play so rarely against each other, but they already have 8 finals ! Imagine if they would play more.....there would only be Williams-Williams finals!

Sofiane
Jul 28th, 2003, 06:06 PM
And how many player defeated both Steffi and Monica, to win slams? not many I guess.

justine&coria
Jul 28th, 2003, 07:19 PM
I have one question : which player did beat the 2 Belgians in the same tournament ? I'd like to know to compare !
But it's difficult to beat the Sisters in the same tournaments since they're playing "only" 5 touraments together.

justine&coria
Jul 29th, 2003, 11:44 AM
Please answer me, I'd like to know how many times the Belgians have been beaten in the same tournament by the same player.

Filip!
Jul 29th, 2003, 11:48 AM
Please answer me, I'd like to know how many times the Belgians have been beaten in the same tournament by the same player.

Good question! Come on, say it!

SM
Jul 29th, 2003, 11:58 AM
kims was legit. the only way i would see otherwise is if kim was losing the match b4 venus withdrew.

:)

monicain
Jul 29th, 2003, 12:06 PM
Imagine if they would play more.....there would only be Williams-Williams finals!
This is ridiculous. How many time do I have to explain that if, IF they play a lot more tournies, there would NOT be more Williams finals--it would result in more injuries, exhaust and loss of motivation.

jenglisbe
Jul 29th, 2003, 02:05 PM
Williams fans are always talking about how the sisters should be treated as separate individuals, not lumped together as a group.
::shocking reply alert:: :p

So, how many players have beaten Kim and Justine in the same tournament?

DA FOREHAND
Jul 29th, 2003, 02:06 PM
If that's a rare feat. it's not because it's tough to do.

hingis-seles
Jul 29th, 2003, 02:23 PM
Martina beat Kim and Justine when she won Filderstadt in 2000, if I am not mistaken!

Glenn
Jul 29th, 2003, 02:41 PM
Davenport has beaten Justine and Kim in Zurich was it?

Julian
Jul 29th, 2003, 02:48 PM
That is an incredible feat from ASV, Graf, Hingis and Kim..although I dont know if we can officially count Kim because Venus retired from her match..but if u want to be technical then lets go ahead lol

Sydney 98
SF Arantxa def. Serena 6-2, 6-1
F Arantxa def. Venus 6-1, 6-3

Arantxa totally dominated! But the Williams sisters were just starting to come out. Arantxa was a nightmare for Serena in 1998 and although I dont know if she can beat Serena today..she still would have a shot in beating Venus IMO

Sydney 99
R16 Steffi def. Serena 6-2, 3-6, 7-5
QF Steffi def. Venus 4-6, 6-2, 6-4

Do the Williams' not like Sydney or what!? lol Very tough matches both won by the "legend" Graf. Neither of the Williams have won a GS yet at that time but certainly their matches against Graf in 99 helped them become better players.

Australian Open 01
QF Martina def. Serena 6-2, 3-6, 8-6
SF Martina def. Venus 6-1, 6-1

I really felt sorry for Martina lol..she finally got past her 2 hurdles only to lose to an on fire Jennifer Capriati in the final! BTW how did Martina beat Venus so easily in that SF!??

WTA Championships 02
SF Kim def. Venus 5-0 RET.
F Kim def. Serena 7-5, 6-3

Impressive display from Kim in that final but I would have liked to see her play against a fit Venus.

justine&coria
Jul 29th, 2003, 06:43 PM
thanks Glenn and Hingis-Seles
So, considering Kim and Justine play more tournies together than the Williams (even if the Wx2 started their careers before them), I think it's a more amazing stats than the Sisters !
Am I right ?

Darran
Jul 29th, 2003, 06:47 PM
Notices lack of serenaslam comments. :P

DA FOREHAND
Jul 29th, 2003, 06:49 PM
No you're not!

"Arantxa totally dominated! But the Williams sisters were just starting to come out. Arantxa was a nightmare for Serena in 1998 and although I dont know if she can beat Serena today..she still would have a shot in beating Venus IMO"

ASV wouldn't stand a chance against Venus today sorry. I don't care what surface you put them on.

1994-10-31 Oakland Indoor Carpet R16 Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (ESP) 2-6 6-3 6-0
1998-01-12 Sydney Hardcourt F Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (ESP) 6-1 6-3
1998-05-04 Rome Clay SF Venus Williams (USA) 6-3 2-6 7-5
1998-08-31 U.S. Open Hardcourt QF Venus Williams (USA) 2-6 6-1 6-1
1998-09-28 Munich Indoor Carpet QF Venus Williams (USA) 6-3 6-2
1999-04-26 Hamburg Clay SF Venus Williams (USA) 6-1 6-3
2000-05-29 Roland Garros Clay QF Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (ESP) 6-0 1-6 6-2
2000-09-18 The Olympics Hardcourt QF Venus Williams (USA) 3-6 6-2 6-4
2002-04-29 Hamburg Clay QF Venus Williams (USA) 3-6 6-4 6-1
Venus Williams (USA) leads 6:3
Hard: Venus Williams (USA) leads 2:1
Clay: Venus Williams (USA) leads 3:1
Grass: Tied 0:0
Indoor: Tied 1:1

mboyle
Jul 29th, 2003, 06:51 PM
I agree w/ Tony P.

Glenn
Jul 29th, 2003, 06:55 PM
SerenaSlam always gets humiliated in his own threads and then never posts back. :lol:

jenny161185
Jul 29th, 2003, 08:01 PM
darran that always happens! I think you can say Kim beat them both - Venus went out there and played , she didnt retire before the match started! but in fairness she was injured. Maybe Kim can do it at the Us Open????

DA FOREHAND
Jul 29th, 2003, 08:07 PM
darran that always happens! I think you can say Kim beat them both - Venus went out there and played , she didnt retire before the match started! but in fairness she was injured. Maybe Kim can do it at the Us Open????

:lol: :lol: :lol:

bandabou
Jul 29th, 2003, 08:28 PM
Kim and Justine usually play the same tournaments, but how many Justine-kim finals have there been?! The Williams sisters donīt play that many tournaments together but there have been already 8 all Williams finals. Including 6 of the last 8 slams!

justine&coria
Jul 29th, 2003, 10:05 PM
Kim and Justine usually play the same tournaments, but how many Justine-kim finals have there been?! The Williams sisters donīt play that many tournaments together but there have been already 8 all Williams finals. Including 6 of the last 8 slams!

This doesn't mean that the Belgians meet each other less.
First, because when the Williams played the finals, it was because the draw allowed it (of course, their seedings helped).
And I think the Belgians have met each other almost the same number of times than the Williams.
And as I said it before, the career of the Williams started before the Belgian ones.