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View Full Version : Did The Racist, Late Sen. Strom Thurmond Father A Black Child?


lizchris
Jul 14th, 2003, 07:05 PM
This is coming from this week's National Enquirer, so consider the source, but they are reporting that former SC Senator Strom Thrumond, who died last month at the age of 100, may have fathered a child with his mother's former maid in the mid 1920's. The woman is now 78 years old and living in LA and when questioned by the Enquirer, refused comment, but didn't deny the story. Those who were close to Thurmond didn't deny the story either and said that he quitely supported this woman, even sending her to college (where he allegedly visited her).

I don't know if this story is true and as much as I didn't have any use for this man, I wish this story had come out while he was alive and coherent so he could deny it or confirm it. I guess we will probably never know.

*JR*
Jul 14th, 2003, 11:09 PM
He always said he didn't discriminate! :o

Rocketta
Jul 15th, 2003, 12:45 AM
Oh yeah this has been written about extensively. She's his daughter. She would visit him and he would visit her over the years. He paid for her college education.

I don't personally agree with letting him get away with having one face in public and another one in the bedroom but she, the daughter is from the old school and I understand that. Besides she's too old to be dealing with a bunch of mess. :(

lizchris
Dec 14th, 2003, 01:38 AM
looks like the story is true. Strom's daughter will hold a press conference tomorrow to confirm what the Enquirer and the Washington Post reported.


Woman Says She's Strom Thurmond's Illegitimate Child
78-Year-Old Retiree Says She's Mixed-Race Daughter of Former Senator
By JEREMIAH MARQUEZ, AP

LOS ANGELES (Dec. 13) - A 78-year-old retired schoolteacher is coming forward after years of silence to claim she is the illegitimate mixed-race daughter of the late Sen. Strom Thurmond, her attorney said Saturday.

Essie Mae Washington-Williams, who lives in Los Angeles, had long been rumored to be the daughter of the one-time segregationist, who died June 26 at the age of 100. She is coming forward now at the urging and encouragement of her children, attorney Frank K. Wheaton said.

''She's decided to come forward to bring some closure to what has been thought to be an old family secret,'' Wheaton told The Associated Press.

''We're not trying to upset the Thurmond estate. We are merely bringing closure to Essie Mae's life, so her children have an opportunity to know from where they come, whether those ancestors are black or white matters not. It is part of our American history.''

Williams told The Washington Post that Thurmond privately acknowledged her as his daughter and had provided financial support since 1941. The Post first reported her claims on its Web site Saturday.

Williams, who has scheduled a news conference in Columbia, S.C., on Wednesday, previously denied rumors that Thurmond, the nation's oldest and longest-serving senator, was her father.

''There was an agreement between the parties that she would never discuss the fact that Sen. Thurmond was her father,'' another of Williams' attorneys, Glenn Walters, told The AP. ''He never denied that Ms. Washington-Williams was his daughter.''

Walters said Williams was not seeking money and did not want to challenge Thurmond's will: ''She simply wants the truth about her life to be told.''

Those close to Thurmond said they were unsure about Williams' claim.

''I really don't know anything about that story, so you'll need to talk to someone else,'' said Thurmond's widow, Nancy Moore Thurmond. The couple separated in 1991.

''I certainly have no answer one way or the other,'' said Bettis Rainsford, a longtime family friend. ''I'm sure the senator may have sowed some wild oats in his early days, but certainly I have no information about that.''

Doris Strom Costner, a distant cousin of Thurmond's, said she doesn't think the claim is true.

''I don't appreciate anyone coming forth after he's dead, you know? It doesn't make good sense,'' Costner said.

Williams told the Post she waited until now to go public with her story because she didn't want to embarrass herself or hurt Thurmond's career.

''I want to bring closure to this,'' she said. ''It is a part of history.''

In seven decades of politics, Thurmond gained fame and infamy as an arch-segregationist, but he later came to support a holiday for the slain civil rights leader Martin Luther King.

Williams claims Thurmond fathered her long before his political career started, when he was a 22-year-old living in his parents' home in Edgefield, S.C. Her mother, then 16, had been working as a maid in the Thurmonds' home.

If challenged by the Thurmond family, Williams is ready to submit to DNA tests, Wheaton said.

Williams said she has documents to validate her claim, including cashier's check stubs, mementos from Thurmond and a letter from an intermediary who delivered money from the senator. She provided the Post with a copy of a 1998 Thurmond letter thanking her ''for the nice Father's Day note you sent me.''

She told the newspaper she received money at least once a year in sessions arranged by Thurmond's Senate staff. In recent years, as the senator's health declined, she said, financial assistance was passed through a Thurmond relative in South Carolina.

Wheaton said the amount of money Thurmond provided over the years was ''a very substantial amount'' but less than $1 million.

Williams' mother, Carrie Butler, was unmarried when she gave birth to her in 1925. Butler's neighbors in the impoverished section of Edgefield helped feed and clothe the child, according to Post interviews with local residents.

Butler's sister, Essie, took the child when she was 6 months old to live with a married aunt, Mary Washington, in Coatesville, Pa., a Philadelphia suburb.

Williams told the Post she first met Thurmond around 1941, when she returned to Edgefield for a visit at age 16. Her mother was suffering from an untreatable kidney disease and insisted on introducing her to her father, Williams said.

In a meeting lasting 20 to 30 minutes, Williams said, Thurmond called her a ''very lovely daughter.''

''I was very happy. I knew I had a father somewhere, and it was wonderful to meet him.''

Williams claims she had another conversation with Thurmond in 1947, when he was governor of South Carolina and a year away from running for president on a Dixiecrat platform of segregation.

''He asked her directly, 'How does it feel to be the daughter of the governor and not be able to tell anyone about it?''' Wheaton said. ''She said it felt fine.''

(Associated Press writer Jacob Jordan in Columbia, S.C., contributed to this report.)


12-13-03 20:18 EST

Copyright 2003 The Associated Press

Rocketta
Dec 14th, 2003, 01:50 AM
I think if his other children don't offer she should sue for part of his estate. I mean she's the one that had to carry the shame of being his little secret.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Dec 14th, 2003, 01:55 AM
Living my whole life in SC, I can say this was not a big secret. Everyone "knew" but no one "knew".


But Lizchris, I kinda take offense to your harsh remarks about Senator Thurmond. True - he was a staunch advocate against civil rights in the 50's and 60's, but he adapted with the times rather quickly and was significant as he was the first southern senator to hire black people on his staff.

Not only that, but he did a lot of good for SC, bringing money and jobs to our state, and because of this, he was elected more times (with the aid of MANY MANY black people) as a senator than any other person ever.

harloo
Dec 14th, 2003, 02:02 AM
What a mess, but it's true. But from the article above you could tell that Thurmond did not want to be associated with his black daughter because of his racist ideology. How sad. I guess being their monetarily was a substitution for being emotionally present in his daughters life.

It amazes me how Thurmonds friends and family continue to deny his illegitimate daughter. This case reminds me of the Lincoln debate. I did not understand their objection to sharing the burials with the black descendants of Lincoln.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Dec 14th, 2003, 02:06 AM
What a mess, but it's true. But from the article above you could tell that Thurmond did not want to be associated with his black daughter because of his racist ideology. How sad. I guess being their monetarily was a substitution for being emotionally present in his daughters life.

It amazes me how Thurmonds friends and family continue to deny his illegitimate daughter. This case reminds me of the Lincoln debate. I did not understand their objection to sharing the burials with the black descendants of Lincoln.
harloo, I urge you to please not be so hasty in labelling the family as racist.

Things were very different back then, than they are today, and what Thurmond did for the girl (although not honorable) were incredible for what was going on at the time.

If you go to the Washington Post website and read the full artilce with the interview from Ms. Williams you will know the full story of her and Senator Thurmond.

lizchris
Dec 14th, 2003, 02:23 AM
Living my whole life in SC, I can say this was not a big secret. Everyone "knew" but no one "knew".


But Lizchris, I kinda take offense to your harsh remarks about Senator Thurmond. True - he was a staunch advocate against civil rights in the 50's and 60's, but he adapted with the times rather quickly and was significant as he was the first southern senator to hire black people on his staff.

Not only that, but he did a lot of good for SC, bringing money and jobs to our state, and because of this, he was elected more times (with the aid of MANY MANY black people) as a senator than any other person ever.


Sorry that you take offense to my harsh remarks, but he didn't change because he thought it was the moral thing to do, but the politacally correct thing to do, which makes him a coward in my book.

lizchris
Dec 14th, 2003, 02:26 AM
I think if his other children don't offer she should sue for part of his estate. I mean she's the one that had to carry the shame of being his little secret.

But she said that she doesn't want his money. I think she should get the DNA test if they deny that she is her daughter since she has the doucments to prove it.

Rocketta
Dec 14th, 2003, 02:34 AM
But she said that she doesn't want his money. I think she should get the DNA test if they deny that she is her daughter since she has the doucments to prove it.

I know that's what she says and probably means. However, I think she deserves some of his estate. She doesn't have to spend it she can give it to charity or her grandkids or her great grandkids. :shrug:

Rocketta
Dec 14th, 2003, 02:43 AM
harloo, I urge you to please not be so hasty in labelling the family as racist.

Things were very different back then, than they are today, and what Thurmond did for the girl (although not honorable) were incredible for what was going on at the time.

If you go to the Washington Post website and read the full artilce with the interview from Ms. Williams you will know the full story of her and Senator Thurmond.

I'm sorry Joshua, there was nothing honarable about what he did. Yes he could've been worse but that doesn't mean he was good either. I've read several accounts and yes I know he visited with her and paid for her education and so on and so forth but when has any father ever got kudos for visiting his child once in a while in secret and paying for his children's education on the sly? :confused:

I'm sorry he was man enough to bed a black woman but not man enough to be open about her and I don't care what time it was. He kept it a secret cause the rednecks of SC wouldn't have voted for him. So he thought they were more important than his child or he thought his career was more important for his child whether he was a racist or not. I know he was a person with low morals. I'd feel that way about all men who keep children secret no matter what the reason.

Ohh and he kept that secret into a new millinium so the times being what they were was no longer an excuse now was it? What reason did his family have for going along with the lie?

Just because his daughter grew up in a time where that type of behavior was acceptable and all she knew doesn't make it right. I'm glad she was at peace with her father. That's good for her soul and well being. However, he was still a shit.

Freewoman33
Dec 14th, 2003, 03:21 AM
I’m not surprised, and wouldn’t be if she was the product of a rape of a 16 year old black girl by a 22 year old white man.

Rocketta
Dec 14th, 2003, 03:38 AM
I’m not surprised, and wouldn’t be if she was the product of a rape of a 16 year old black girl by a 22 year old white man.

Yes that's right her mother was a teenager when she worked in his home? :scratch:

There is a book about it but I don't know if we have it. If we do I'll look it up. :)

that is if I remember. ;)

lizchris
Dec 14th, 2003, 04:06 AM
I’m not surprised, and wouldn’t be if she was the product of a rape of a 16 year old black girl by a 22 year old white man.

I never even thought of that, but you know he would have never been arrested for rape.

Rocketta
Dec 14th, 2003, 02:57 PM
everythiing outside of what she and her father knew of each other is pure conjecture. the relationship was between them alone and i disagree that she should sue the estate. whatever agreement they had between them, was honored when he was alive and should be continued to be honored even now.

it's apparent she was on good terms with her father and that he took care of her monetary needs. the man's dead....i see no reason for her to come out now with all of this. and if she sues? she'd be just another vulture out to get hers. i doubt she'll do it. despite the situation, you get the feeling that she was very fond of him.

oh DD, children who get beat down by their parents, molested by their parents cry when they get taken away. Why is that? Cause they love their parents no matter how sorry they are. I see that analogy in this case. She loves her father no matter how sorry he was. I don't think it has anything to do with an understanding cause I suspect the relationship was all about what he wanted. That's not an understanding.. This lady was born in the 20's in the south. She had no choice but to be ok with whatever relationship he offered her. She couldn't even vote until her 40's so I don't think she's looking at the relationship with modern day eyes and I'm sure Strom wasn't either. Still doesn't change the lack of true morals it displayed.

This woman has lived the majority of her life probably thinking she had zero right or say to anything in Strom's life. Why would she think differently now. Still she's as much his child as any of the others and if his "white" kids are getting an inheritance why shouldn't she? I believe if he had left her anything in his will it would be out now.

I hope I'm wrong about that but I doubt it.

lizchris
Dec 14th, 2003, 02:59 PM
everythiing outside of what she and her father knew of each other is pure conjecture. the relationship was between them alone and i disagree that she should sue the estate. whatever agreement they had between them, was honored when he was alive and should be continued to be honored even now.

it's apparent she was on good terms with her father and that he took care of her monetary needs. the man's dead....i see no reason for her to come out now with all of this. and if she sues? she'd be just another vulture out to get hers. i doubt she'll do it. despite the situation, you get the feeling that she was very fond of him.

She didn't come out with this. The week after Strom Thurmond died, the National Enquirer had a story in it paper that this lady was Strom's secret daughter, so the paper outed her.

Dawn Marie
Dec 14th, 2003, 04:19 PM
I disagree with you Joshuah on your viewpoint. I don't think he did anything for SC. Just because some blacks voted for him still doesn't change the fact that he was a racist.

he did nothing great in my eyes. Now he denied his own flesh and blood because of her skin tone. What a coward.

The daughter who is old school hopefully has a family who is NEW school and I hope they sue and get PAID . Fuck his name even further on up.

Go family keep doing your thang.:)

ptkten
Dec 14th, 2003, 05:17 PM
The only reason why Strom became more accepting of minorites was because it was political suicide not to. He discriminated against blacks when it was good for him politically and he supported them when it was good for him politically. I have little respect for politicians who just change their views for political gains.

lizchris
Dec 14th, 2003, 05:23 PM
i'm not talking about her getting outted. i'm talking about the news conference.

She is doing the news conference because she was outed, first in the National Enquirer and then in thee Washington Post.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Dec 14th, 2003, 07:44 PM
Apparently you guys don't understand South Carolina politics.

Just like in Mississippi, a racist would win in landslides each and every time. Strom could have continued his hate-speech of integration, but chose to make a difference by being one of the FIRST southern senators to support integration.

Often times, we are so quick to look back on people and point on the negative, and that is good. We have to learn from our past. But in addition, it's important to point out the positive in a persons life. And Strom represents what the entire South went through during the period of integration.

And as a matter of fact, he was a leader on several important legislative pieces, such as the MLK holiday (which is unpopular in SC), but he voted for it anyways. I know that's minor, but post-Watergate, not many issues related to civil rights came up -- except Affirmative Action which Strom vigorously supported despite dislike of it in South Carolina.

What I'm trying to say is this -- Strom could be someone like Trent Lott, or the new governor of Mississippi (Haley Barbour) and still use race as a factor for political purposes, but he chose not to. That, in itself, was a significant step in the South's realization that equality for all was in full force.

harloo
Dec 15th, 2003, 03:16 AM
His black daughter saved his career by not coming forward about him earlier. If some of those racist folk would of learned he fathered a N#@@!! (as they would say) he would of been over. So she is entitled to have a stake in his estate even moreso than his white offspring. She does not want money anyways, she just want's closure.

As far as not being hard on Strom. This is how I feel:

He was a racist when he lived, and died one also. Some folks supported him because of what he did in office, but that does not mean he is to be excused for his racist ideology. He supported integration because of the political ramifications. He simply had no choice otherwise.

starr
Dec 15th, 2003, 04:50 AM
I think Strom always did what was politically expedient.

I never had any respect for him before I heard this story, and this story only makes me chuckle ironically. The guy was a segregationist when he bedded a servant. I guess he forgot that having sex is a lot more intimate than sharing a restroom, a water fountain, or a bus seat.

On the plus side, he took care of his daughter. I hope he did it out of a sense of what was right, and not because he was afraid that the woman or her family would speak up and ruin his political career. It should be remembered that back when this happened there wasn't any sure paternity testing. He might have sucessfully denied paternity.

So anyway, I hear that she's giving an interview to Dan Rather. She says that will be the only interview she grants.

I guess that as usual, human lives are immensily complicated and can't be sorted out into neat compartments.

Infiniti2001
Dec 15th, 2003, 11:28 PM
Strom Thurmond's family confirms paternity claim
By David Mattingly
CNN Washington Bureau
Monday, December 15, 2003 Posted: 4:27 PM EST (2127 GMT)

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/US/12/15/thurmond..paternity/story.strom.jpg

Strom Thurmond was the longest-serving U.S. senator in history.


(CNN) -- An attorney for the family of former U.S. Sen. Strom Thurmond of South Carolina on Monday confirmed that at the age of 22, Thurmond fathered a child with a teenaged African-American housekeeper in 1925.

Thurmond, the longest-serving senator in U.S. history, died in June at age 100. His illegitimate daughter's story was published Sunday by the Washington Post.

Essie Mae Washington-Williams, now 78 and a retired school teacher in Los Angeles, publicly revealed her relationship to the former segregationist after a lifetime of silence.

According to reports, her attorney, Frank Wheaton, said Williams came forward at the urging of her children and had no plans to ask the Thurmond estate for any money.

Monday's statement from the Thurmond family reads: "As J. Strom Thurmond has passed away and cannot speak for himself, the Thurmond family acknowledges Ms. Essie Mae Washington-Williams' claim to her heritage. We hope this acknowledgment will bring closure for Ms. Williams."

The Thurmond family attorney, J. Mark Taylor, declined further comment.

Glenn Walters, a South Carolina attorney also representing Williams, told CNN he was happy that the matter had been resolved in this manner. Walters was reportedly prepared to provide documentation and undergo a DNA test to prove her claim. Her attorney tells CNN no DNA test was done.

According to the Washington Post report, Washington-Williams' mother, Carrie Butler, worked as a maid at the Thurmond family home in Edgefield, South Carolina. At the time the girl was born in 1925, Butler was 16 and Thurmond was 22, unmarried and living in his parents' home.

Butler's sister took the girl to live in Pennsylvania when she was six months old, and she did not meet Thurmond until returning to South Carolina in 1941, when she was 16, the Post reported.

Her mother, who was ill and died a short time later, had insisted on introducing her to Thurmond, who acknowledged her as his daughter, the newspaper reported.

Rocketta
Dec 15th, 2003, 11:35 PM
Well at least his family has a little couth and didn't drag this thing out.

Hmm, a racist, segregationist, and a statuetory rapists. A man of many talents? :scratch:

I wonder if now the revisionists will get a hold of the story and make it into some kind of love story like they do with Jefferson and Sally Hemmings? :confused:

Miss Thang
Dec 15th, 2003, 11:48 PM
She is gon be on 60 Minutes 2 on Wed night if y'all wanna see her interview.

starr
Dec 16th, 2003, 12:01 AM
I don't know what the laws were in 1925, but in many states having consensual sex with a 16 year old is not statutory rape.

starr
Dec 16th, 2003, 12:04 AM
Although clearly, what he did was not right. Even if it wasn't forced sexual contact, he had a position of power in the home and he abused it. Neither of them, I am sure, had any idea that it was anything other than a sexual relationship. But the poor woman is dead now, and we will never know her story unless she told it to her daughter. There must have been some good will between her and Thurmond if she wanted her daughter to meet him and had the ability to arrange for the meeting.

I think the way the family handled it was proper. Anything less would have reflected poorly on them.

Rocketta
Dec 16th, 2003, 03:07 AM
Well I don't think in 1925 that a black girl had a choice to say "No Thanks" when approached sexually. Oh and white males did what they wanted to black females during those jim crow days. There were many half children running around. Also, the girl was 16 the first time she met her father he had 16 years to grow up and face what he did before he ever was confronted with her. So basically, I guess we'll never know. ;)

lizchris
Dec 16th, 2003, 03:10 AM
I don't know what the laws were in 1925, but in many states having consensual sex with a 16 year old is not statutory rape.

Believe me, this was forced sexual contact. If you saw Strom Thurmond when he was 100, one could only think of what he looked like when he was 22 and it was probably a nightmare. No black woman who was sober and in her right sane mind would have had consentual sex with him, or any white Southner for that matter.

decemberlove
Dec 16th, 2003, 03:41 AM
wow. he was born on the same day as me... 80 years earlier. :eek:

heres him when he was 29... not a good picture, i need to find another one:
http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/special.strom.thurmond/interactive/gallery/03.jpg

32...
http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/special.strom.thurmond/interactive/gallery/04.jpg

decemberlove
Dec 16th, 2003, 03:42 AM
heres the close up: http://images.ibsys.com/2001/0813/916104.jpg


80 years really makes a difference, eh? hard to believe :devil:

http://www.lib.clemson.edu/SpCol/Thurmond%20Photos/BP05strom.jpg
http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/special.strom.thurmond/interactive/gallery/18.jpg

wow... i dont wanna get old. :sad:

Chance
Dec 16th, 2003, 05:10 AM
interesting read...

lizchris
Dec 16th, 2003, 01:11 PM
oh liz, this is complete bullshit! i know many men who are in their 80's who look horrible. but upon seeing pictures of them in their 20's, were extremely handsome men. it's called aging. the ravaging toll of age that takes place between 22 and 100 is quite extreme so your statement is very biased.

and when you say "believe me, this was forced sexual contact"...i mean, were you there? let's just all agree that we'll never know and leave it at that. the speculations are just pure viciousness at this point and completely uncalled for when you take into account that both parties are dead and cannot speak for themselves.

The only bullshit came from Strom, who raped this woman whether you want to believe it or not and denied this child during his pathetic lifetime, and people who condone his behavior.

I don't care that he is dead. The way he treated this woman and blacks in South Carolina when he was alive was vicious and if you can't see that, you have a serious problem called denial.

Serendy Willick
Dec 16th, 2003, 09:23 PM
i realize that. but she could have refused to do that news conference. so what if she was outted? the only people she needs to explain her situation to are her own children and family. not the world. being outted does not by any means mean that the public is deserving of an explanation.


So its her fault for letting America and the world know that Strom Racist Thrumound is a monster hypocrite? Why should she be kept in the dark? Thats not fair to her. Thrumound should've had his sorry ass taken to jail for RAPE. So hypocritical, racist whites can take advantage and rape black women and we are suppossed to protect them even when they are six feet under the ground? :mad: Where in the hell where these sixteen year olds parents? :mad: :fiery: Now they can add another adjectives to this morons name, RAPIST.

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 03:44 PM
just answer the question liz...were you there?

No. Were you?

I may not have the evidence to proove rape, but you don't have the evidence to proove that he didn't. Considering the time (early 1920's) and the fact that that type of thing was common back then, IMO, what happened was rape. He only paid his child off because he knew she had the power to ruin his career at any time.

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 03:45 PM
first of all, there's no PROOF of rape. second, this woman had no ill will toward her father and has kept the matter private all her life. i think if left to her own devices (without the interferrence of her children) she might have never made this public. i mean...who wants to live in the public eye if they don't have to? that's insane!

until there's proof of rape, this issue is a dead one, really. and that proof will never exist because both parties are dead. to call someone a rapist without proof is really stupid. listen, you need to not make this another one of those evil white man vs. poor black woman issues. WE DO NOT KNOW ALL THIS DETAILS.

So now wer are going to blame her children for all of this? Even though the Enquirer outed her without the help of her children?

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 03:50 PM
no, not at all. i'm not blaming the children. however, being outted by the enquirer still does not mean that one needs to divulge. that she did is her business and of course her right. all i'm saying is that left to her own devices...it seems she would prefer her privacy. the length of time with which is kept silent is testament to that.

I agree with you there. If I knew a Southern racist cracker was my father, I'd keep that quite too.

BigTennisFan
Dec 17th, 2003, 03:51 PM
heres the close up: http://images.ibsys.com/2001/0813/916104.jpg


80 years really makes a difference, eh? hard to believe :devil:

http://www.lib.clemson.edu/SpCol/Thurmond%20Photos/BP05strom.jpg
http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/special.strom.thurmond/interactive/gallery/18.jpg

wow... i dont wanna get old. :sad:


Not really. Well it makes a difference for most people. Most of you guys when you get to be 80 will look like something the cat dragged in. :lol:

However, as for moi, I shall retain my raconteur's good looks even until the end of time. :o

BigTennisFan
Dec 17th, 2003, 03:55 PM
No. Were you?

I may not have the evidence to proove rape, but you don't have the evidence to proove that he didn't. Considering the time (early 1920's) and the fact that that type of thing was common back then, IMO, what happened was rape. He only paid his child off because he knew she had the power to ruin his career at any time.

Come on liz. You would have been perfectly at home as a persecuter in the Salem Witch Trials. You know as well as anyone else that you can't prove a negative.

Can you prove that you didn't murder a baby two years ago and dismember the body and feed it to some wild dogs? Well can you?

The "EYE" sees all. :o

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 03:55 PM
methinks your own racism is oozing quite plentifully this morning...

What's racist with my statement? I didn't say ALL white men, just a specific group.

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 03:57 PM
Come on liz. You would have been perfectly at home as a persecuter in the Salem Witch Trials. You know as well as anyone else that you can't prove a negative.

Can you prove that you didn't murder a baby two years ago and dismember the body and feed it to some wild dogs? Well can you?

The "EYE" sees all. :o

Did you ever hear of statutory rape? That's easy to prove because a child was the end result.

Give me a break!

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 03:58 PM
you really should get your own psychic network show, liz. you seem to have the gift. ;)

Maybe I should.

rand
Dec 17th, 2003, 03:59 PM
Did you ever hear of statutory rape? That's easy to prove because a child was the end result.

Give me a break!
because of course it is completely excluded that those two people just made love?

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 03:59 PM
because of course it is completely excluded that those two people just made love?

Possibly, but I dobut it in this case.

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 04:02 PM
liz...every single damn time there's an issue on this board that involves the races (especially white/black) you make it a habit to take the side of...

white = evil
black = victim

even without proper proof or presence. your hatred of all things "whitey" usually just seeps out of your posts and anyone who hasn't noticed it is either blind or cannot read.

i realize that you have your reasons for being this way. i really do. but when you make it the entree in every race thread...it gets distasteful.

Sorry if that bothers you, but I can't stand white trash and my mother and father grew up in the Deep South so I know how evil these people can be.

Not evey black person is a victim as you put it, but this woman's mother was.

DunkMachine
Dec 17th, 2003, 04:02 PM
because of course it is completely excluded that those two people just made love?
Ze hebben het over sex met minderjarigen niet verkrachting.

My view on this guy is that he put his career before his own blood. That does not deserve any respect.

rand
Dec 17th, 2003, 04:05 PM
Ze hebben het over sex met minderjarigen niet verkrachting.

My view on this guy is that he put his career before his own blood. That does not deserve any respect.
ja, maar als ze 17 was kunde moeilijk spreken van minderjarig he....bij ons zijn ze sexueel meerderjarig als ze 15 worden....

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 04:12 PM
but you tend to make blanket statements. so what you're saying is that all white people from the deep south are white trash? and whites are supposed to be penalized from saying that all black people from the deep south are dumb ******s? you see how this works? it's complete reverse discrimination and if you feel that strongly about whites and how they are, then you should know that you've made yourself into the exact thing you hate. and that's sad. especially because your hatred doesn't allow you to see it.

that this woman's mother was a victim is not proven. many 16 year olds today are sexually active and enjoying it so much that they have babies from it. end of story.

Most white Southners think that anyway.

BTW, I don't hate all white people, just white trash and you don't have to be poor or from the South to be that.

I'm pretty sure that this lady's mom enjoyed getting fucked by a racist and carrying his baby for nine months. :rolleyes:

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 04:23 PM
then what, in your own interpretation, constitutes white trash?

btw...since there's no proof it was rape, she very well could have enjoyed getting fucked. who knows?

People who:

Hate or have a low opinion of blacks
Hate or have a low opinion of Hispanics (non white to be more specific)
Hate or have a low opinion of Asians
Hate or have a low opinion of people who are more talented, better looking or have more money than them
Poorly educated

Considering who got her pregnant, I doubt she enjoyed getting fucked.

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 04:33 PM
if that's the case, then there are a whole lot of white trash that aren't even white. :eek: matter of fact, in your own interpretation, i've even met a few black people who are white thrash then. some of the biggest haters of successful, talented, beautiful and rich blacks are blacks themselves. just check out the russell simmons thread and you'll see it all over the place. sad.

you doubt she enjoyed getting fucked? :lol: who are we to judge, huh? once again...we weren't there.

You weren't there either but you talk as if she did.

I know there are blacks who don't like rich blacks, but as typical with people like you, you try to change the subject. We are talking about Strom Thurmond.

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 04:40 PM
the very fact that a POSSIBILITY exists, and that proof either way is not forthcoming = a hearty STFU don't you think?

Personally, I'd rather if you'd shut the fuck up. At least I don't go around condoning rape, statutory or othewise of young black women.

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 04:44 PM
no. i wasn't there so my case is that i refuse to make a judgement either way. simple.

typical with people like me? wtf??? do you see how i say that you're so fucking racist you can't see straight?

sure we're talking about strom thurmond. and it seems as if you knew him because he lived just right down the street from you.

i mean, at least admit that you don't know, i don't know, and that basically makes your accusations caustic and unfounded.

Jumpy, aren't we?

Typical of people like you who excuse bad things that white people do, but are the firsrt one to open your mouth when blacks do bad things, that's what I meant. (I guess this statement makes me a bigger racist).

I admit I don't know, I was just stating my opinion.

At least I can admit I didn't know, unlike you.

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 04:45 PM
impossible. not as long as you're up in here spouting bullshit that can't be proven and making it seem that everything and their mother who's white is of the devil.

you have an opinion about whites? well i have an opinion about racists. and you're one muthafuckin' racist if i ever saw one. the fact that you're a black one doesn't make one damned difference.

You can call me whatever you want because I know I am not a racist.

Funny whnn you tell the truth or attempt to about whites, you are the racist devil. So funny, yet so pathetic.

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 04:49 PM
truth is welcome. speculations are not.

I can speculate all the hell I want. Like I speculate about the Kobe Bryant case. While he is guilty of adultery, which I knew from day one, he isn't guilty of rape, mainly because she has changed her story so much and compromised the witnesses on her side.

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 04:53 PM
:rolleyes: oh boy...the tangents just keep on rolling....

Like you stupid tangent?

I guess the author of the topic can't write what she wants.

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 04:57 PM
no liz, you can write whatever you want...i was simply aghast at the fact that you'd gone from one white devil (mr. thurmond) to another white devil (kobe's accuser)....

you really would have done well during the salem witch hunts...especially since most of the victims were white. i think you would have enjoyed it.

Acutally, I woluldn't have since blacks were slaves in Massachusetts during that time (if you knew your history, something you would have known).

Kobe's accuser isn't a white devil, just someone who appears to be loose sexually.

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 05:06 PM
no liz...i had no idea that blacks were slaves in massachusetts during that time. :rolleyes: apparent sarcasm aside....

well then she's a sexually loose white devil. :p

Acutally, she'd be a piece of scum if she is lying about being raped, just like Desiree Washington and the slut who recently accused a Detroit Loins player of a rape that never happened.

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 05:11 PM
i agree. ANYONE who cries "RAPE" when there's no truth or proof...is scum. :)

Nice try, but it won't work.

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 05:18 PM
that wasn't a try. you basically labelled your own self. i didn't even need to help you either.

Actually, I didn't, but I think you know what you were doing.

Typical, but not surprising.

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 05:25 PM
know what liz? :lol: even YOU don't know what i was doing! :lol:

typical. and completely not surprising.

I kenw what you were doing and I think it was probably obvious to other people reading

lizchris
Dec 17th, 2003, 05:52 PM
yeah but did you realize what you had done? :lol: or did you realize it after you'd posted? oh well...have a good day, liz.

Thank you and up yours.

DunkMachine
Dec 17th, 2003, 11:50 PM
Way to derail the discussion ladies.

As for lizchris, you need to fuckin relax. You are making an absolute ass out of yourself. Seriously, you're killing me with your bullshit.

decemberlove
Dec 18th, 2003, 12:16 AM
Kobe's accuser isn't a white devil, just someone who appears to be loose sexually.

but kobe ISNT? kobe is the one married here! talk about a double standard.

Serendy Willick
Dec 18th, 2003, 12:20 AM
liz...every single damn time there's an issue on this board that involves the races (especially white/black) you make it a habit to take the side of...

white = evil
black = victim

even without proper proof or presence. your hatred of all things "whitey" usually just seeps out of your posts and anyone who hasn't noticed it is either blind or cannot read.

i realize that you have your reasons for being this way. i really do. but when you make it the entree in every race thread...it gets distasteful.


Fucking please :rolleyes: White men repeately used black women as sexual objects. There is definative proof of that and the repeated rapes of black women slave througout all of the south. Yet, when White women were even looked at by a black man, a lynch mob was immediately put in place. So are black women supposed to eat shyt politely with a knife and fork and just "move on"? :rolleyes: I'm so tired of people trying to protect these racist rapist who have their way quietly while people continue to fucking make excuses for them and their boorish behavior.

Blacks= Have the courage to say that their is a problem (still) in America with racial stereotypes and racism in general.
Whites= insensitive whinners that claim that everyone tries to "play the race card"

DunkMachine
Dec 18th, 2003, 12:48 AM
Fucking please :rolleyes: White men repeately used black women as sexual objects. There is definative proof of that and the repeated rapes of black women slave througout all of the south. Yet, when White women were even looked at by a black man, a lynch mob was immediately put in place. So are black women supposed to eat shyt politely with a knife and fork and just "move on"? :rolleyes: I'm so tired of people trying to protect these racist rapist who have their way quietly while people continue to fucking make excuses for them and their boorish behavior.

Blacks= Have the courage to say that their is a problem (still) in America with racial stereotypes and racism in general.
Whites= insensitive whinners that claim that everyone tries to "play the race card"

I can see where DD is coming from. Allthough it is obvious that Strumond (or whatever the fuck ever his name is sp?!) had a power position in 1925. As a young black servant girl that is being "lusted" after by a rich white man, she was both metally and physically in an extremely difficult position and allmost certainly unable to refuse his advances.

But we as outsiders dó not know whether the conception of their child was a result of passion or the result of a rape. The rape scenario might be the most "likely" considering the age and profession of the girl at the time and the mans viewpoints on racial equality.

One fact remains, this man took care of his daughter and accepted her for his blood( at least somewhat)

DunkMachine
Dec 18th, 2003, 02:11 AM
There are some seriously angry blackfolk in this thread. Y'all are vicious.

lizchris
Dec 18th, 2003, 03:25 AM
Way to derail the discussion ladies.

As for lizchris, you need to fuckin relax. You are making an absolute ass out of yourself. Seriously, you're killing me with your bullshit.

Why should I. I am sick and tired or people having one high standard for one group of people and a gutter standard for another. If you feel what I am saying is bullshit, I don't remember anyone putting a gun to your head to post here.

lizchris
Dec 18th, 2003, 03:30 AM
but kobe ISNT? kobe is the one married here! talk about a double standard.

I think I said more than once that Kobe is guilty of adultery. BTW, so is the woman he allegedly raped, regardless of whether she knew if he was married, which she knrew he was (she knew more about him than we were lead to originally believe).

I am sick and tired of people trying to excuse women who knowing sleep with married men. They should be called for what they are; opportunistic sluts.

decemberlove
Dec 18th, 2003, 07:39 PM
I think I said more than once that Kobe is guilty of adultery. BTW, so is the woman he allegedly raped, regardless of whether she knew if he was married, which she knrew he was (she knew more about him than we were lead to originally believe).

I am sick and tired of people trying to excuse women who knowing sleep with married men. They should be called for what they are; opportunistic sluts.

i dont recall you EVER calling KOBE a slut or a whore, etc. hes ONLY guilty of adultery in your eyes cos hes black, but he cant be a whore to you cos hes a man, right? yes, she knew he was married. but kobe knew as well. yet, kobe is practically a saint to you. oh poor kobe, he was seduced by a lil white girl :rolleyes:

sometimes i think you are an old, ignorant WHITE MAN that comes here just to troll and make women and blacks look bad. nice job, btw.

lizchris
Dec 18th, 2003, 08:15 PM
i dont recall you EVER calling KOBE a slut or a whore, etc. hes ONLY guilty of adultery in your eyes cos hes black, but he cant be a whore to you cos hes a man, right? yes, she knew he was married. but kobe knew as well. yet, kobe is practically a saint to you. oh poor kobe, he was seduced by a lil white girl :rolleyes:

sometimes i think you are an old, ignorant WHITE MAN that comes here just to troll and make women and blacks look bad. nice job, btw.


BTW, I am black and I said that Kobe is guilty of adultery because he is (not becaue he is black) just like the following white celebrities:

Donald Trump
Rep. Dan Buryon (R-Indiana)
Michael Douglas
Kirk Douglas
Bill Clinton
Former Rep. Bob Livingston (R- Louisiana)
Melanie Griffith
Tom Cruise
etc.

Kobe isn't a whore because there isn't any evidence that he is a serial adulterer a la Bill Clinton and Michael Douglas. Believe me, Kobe isn't a saint; he has been flirting with women for a while because he marriage went sour within months of the wedding. On the other hand, his accuser was with three men within 48 hours of the alleged rape, including the guy whom she told she was raped (that was the same guy who drove her home). That doesn't look good for someone who is claiming rape, even if she was raped and that is the reason why Kobe will be acquitted, even if he did rape her (which I don't think he did).

DunkMachine
Dec 18th, 2003, 10:26 PM
:topic: Kobe shoulda left the Alabama blacksnake at home. He wouldn't have had any problems if he had put a lock on the cock.

He should know better then to fuck strange whitewomen(j/k) when you're a celebrety.