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View Full Version : Why did Conchita win Wimbledon and not the French?


selesrules
Jun 23rd, 2003, 08:44 PM
Afterall, her best surface is clay, she's won countless of tournaments on it. In fact she's a clay court specialist.

baleineau
Jun 23rd, 2003, 08:49 PM
i say there's some mental block. i think she really played with so few expectations on her at wimbledon that she didn't feel over pressured.

in the past on clay, she'd win and do well in the tune-ups, come into the French as 2-4th favourite, reach the semis/quarters, and then feel the pressure. against Steffi/Monica/Arantxa you can't get away with that. you need to play 100% and Conchita never brought her A Game in any match that she ever lost at Roland Garros.

irma
Jun 23rd, 2003, 08:51 PM
she won one set in countless matches against the two best clayplayers in the ninties and only in that set the opponent choked so obvious she was not good enough on clay but better on grass

baleineau
Jun 23rd, 2003, 08:51 PM
it's no surprise, though, that she won Wimbledon. she has a sneaky slicey serve, a great slice backhand, a good topspin backhand passing shot, and a strong forehand to hit winners. she also has good touch around the net.

irma
Jun 23rd, 2003, 08:53 PM
she did better against steffi at wimbledon 93 then she ever did on clay including that match in 95!

baleineau
Jun 23rd, 2003, 08:54 PM
she won one set in countless matches against the two best clayplayers in the ninties and only in that set the opponent choked so obvious she was not good enough on clay but better on grass

disagree - she's still better on clay, but adapts her game well to grass.

henin and mauresmo are similar - they play well on the natural surfaces (clay/grass) where the bounce is unpredictable - their spins are effective.

for some weird reason ( a rule of sport ) she just couldn't produce her best when the prize presented itself. mental frailty i say, something which accounts for her being so close to the top and the very top players, but usually coming up short :sad:

baleineau
Jun 23rd, 2003, 08:56 PM
she did better against steffi at wimbledon 93 then she ever did on clay including that match in 95!

agreed. i think, once again, that she played with freedom at Wimbledon. nobody expected much of her, so she delivered.

irma
Jun 23rd, 2003, 08:57 PM
that's maybe true the semi of 96 by example was a match she lost before it started!(you can see that in her eyes)

I think there is another difference too. she owned nav when on clay but she owned her in head to head. she never owned monica, steffi and asv often got bad beatings. I think that made a huge difference the way she started a match

selesrules
Jun 23rd, 2003, 09:09 PM
btw, I voted that it's because of the opponents & draws she's had...

At Wimbledon she didn't have to beat Seles, Graf or Sanchez. She beat Davenport and Navratilova whom she owns. But I haven't checked who are all the players that have beaten her at the French...

baleineau
Jun 23rd, 2003, 09:15 PM
1988 - lost Bettina Fulco 4th round
1989 - lost Steffi Graf QF
1990 - lost Steffi Graf QF
1991 - lost Monica Seles QF
1992 - lost Gabriela Sabatini QF
1993 - lost Anke Huber QF
1994 - lost Arantxa Sanchez Vicario SF
1995 - lost Steffi Graf SF
1996 - lost Steffi Graf SF
1997 - lost Amanda Coetzer 4R
1998 - lost Iva Majoli 4R
1999 - lost Monica Seles QF
2000 - lost Mary Pierce F
2001 - lost Cara Black 3R
2002 - lost Jelena Dokic 2R
2003 - lost Kim Clijsters QF

But she has beaten Cara Black twice at RG, Sanchez-Vicario once, Mary Pierce once, Amanda Coetzer at least once.

Apart from the last couple of years (which make the assessment hard) Conchita nearly always reached the round of her seeding, but failed to make an impression once there. It's not just about opponent. It's a mental thing. People were touting her as a potential champion there back in 1990, and I think it got into her head. Also, the fact that ASV had so much success there meant Conchita had something to prove on the domestic front.

Kart
Jun 23rd, 2003, 10:43 PM
It's because of the players she faced.

In 1994 Conchita was the third seed I think and rightfully so. There were only two players that were going to beat her - ASV and Steffi, both of whom were defeated by resurgent veterans.

With those two out there was no one even likely to stop her, except maybe Novotna - except she missed ber chance and just gave in to Martina.

Grass may be a tough surface for a baseliner, but Conchita was far from inexperienced at that time.

As for the French - well her best chances of winning were in the nineties. 1993 was perhaps a chance missed but the others were all losses to top quality players.

Richie77
Jun 24th, 2003, 02:24 AM
It's the slice backhand. Conchita is not your typical clay-court specialist...she has a little more variety in her game, and that's what helps her do well on all surfaces.

Sam L
Jun 24th, 2003, 02:44 AM
It's because of the players she faced.

In 1994 Conchita was the third seed I think and rightfully so. There were only two players that were going to beat her - ASV and Steffi, both of whom were defeated by resurgent veterans.

With those two out there was no one even likely to stop her, except maybe Novotna - except she missed ber chance and just gave in to Martina.

Grass may be a tough surface for a baseliner, but Conchita was far from inexperienced at that time.

As for the French - well her best chances of winning were in the nineties. 1993 was perhaps a chance missed but the others were all losses to top quality players.
This pretty much sums up my opinion. Also that year, I think there was little rain and the courts were dry and bouncy, helping her more.

She's always been a better claycourt player, but she never got lucky on clay at RG cause there was always someone better than her especially on the latter stages of the tournament.

spencercarlos
Jun 24th, 2003, 03:20 AM
It was a lucky draw for sure, did not have to play Arantxa, Graf or Seles.
She indeed played an incredible match in the final, full credit for her, but i just donīt see Conchita beating Graf or Seles at a slam event, even Arantxa.

faboozadoo15
Jun 24th, 2003, 04:32 AM
i checked 'other' because my reason is that monica seles was not present, AND because her tricky game is hard for people to beat if they have not played her before. she had to work very hard, and it's nice (IMO) that she has a slam... bc shes been around a long time and she won it on her least likely surface which makes it fun.

Sam L
Jun 24th, 2003, 04:36 AM
It was a lucky draw for sure, did not have to play Arantxa, Graf or Seles.
She indeed played an incredible match in the final, full credit for her, but i just donīt see Conchita beating Graf or Seles at a slam event, even Arantxa.
RG 2000????

But yeah generally I agree, she hasn't been a big tournament player.

I think she played and won her last 4 matches at Wimbledon 94 in 3 sets. What an effort. I suppose for that alone she deserves the win. She really did fight for that title.

propi
Jun 24th, 2003, 06:00 AM
Well I always think it's a case of mental block and no luck I will always remember 1997 RG lost against Coetzer, i first time ever....
Anyway her tennis suits to all surfaces and her run on Wim'94 was impressive, esp from 1/4

irma
Jun 24th, 2003, 07:59 AM
i checked 'other' because my reason is that monica seles was not present, AND because her tricky game is hard for people to beat if they have not played her before. she had to work very hard, and it's nice (IMO) that she has a slam... bc shes been around a long time and she won it on her least likely surface which makes it fun.

but monica was not at the french either so that's irrelevant especially since monica is much better on clay then on grass so monica not being there should have raised her chances on clay more then they would on grass!

Gowza
Jun 24th, 2003, 08:07 AM
i haven't seen her playing for so long that i can't really remember her game besides those moonballs which do give a lot of players trouble. she also puts a lot of different spins on the ball and on grass the bounce can be hard to pick so add that with the different spins and it is hard to pick a shot before you work out where the ball is going which can limit your options which gives martinez a better chance of doing a good shot with her next shot. she also has the flat forehand so she can mix that up and cause some problems and she has a slice doesn't she? (i can't remember). if she does have a slice then the ball keeps low which troubles tall players and all players in general because it alters the aim of a player because a ball with slice or spin on it has to be aimed higher thatn usual to get it over the net.

i think overall she has an effective game on grass and her game doesn't really allow much rhythm so a lot of players have trouble with that. i think her game is best suited to grass.

as for her clay game, i don't think her flat forehand is as effective and if it is pressured it may be a weakness.

irma
Jun 24th, 2003, 08:10 AM
conchita played the best in the semis of berlin 2000, she totally kicked martina's ass

again she knew she owned(when a little martina) on clay so she played a totally different game

BasicTennis
Jun 24th, 2003, 08:12 AM
Conchita hated grass because she believed it's only for cows, so in the finals, she tried to finish the match early, so she could get out of the wimby grass immediately. Her hate for the grass has motivated her to win the title.:rolleyes:

King Lindsay
Jun 24th, 2003, 08:12 AM
Even in Conchita's prime, she could not come close to handling Arantxa or Steffi. that is why she never won the french.

as people have noted, her wimbledon title came to her on the back of a very nice draw.

King Lindsay
Jun 24th, 2003, 08:13 AM
which is not to denigrate her achievements, certainly winning wimbledon was an astounding accomplishment (especially for a spaniard). it's just the fact is she was always playing third fiddle to ASV and steffi.

irma
Jun 24th, 2003, 08:16 AM
isn't it weird that she beat steffi on indoor her least favorite surface?
I think it was her only great result indoor!

King Lindsay
Jun 24th, 2003, 08:17 AM
isn't it weird that she beat steffi on indoor her least favorite surface?
I think it was her only great result indoor!

i guess she had one really good day.

irma
Jun 24th, 2003, 08:23 AM
yeah the match was probably after 12:00 too

irma
Jun 24th, 2003, 08:28 AM
maybe conchita was too nice too. I mean when you are making fun while watching the other semi with your semi final opponent right before your own match starts then I can imagine it's hard to get a killerinstinct when the match actually starts

see steffi probably didn't care, but maybe conchita did

this was about french 96
I just say that since she looked so incredible slow that day. the worst I ever saw it.

conchita and nav on the other hand never seemed to love each other;)

BasicTennis
Jun 24th, 2003, 08:32 AM
conchita and nav on the other hand never seemed to love each other;)
I guess, nobody would wanted to turn out the "gay" in this situation. :eek:

irma
Jun 24th, 2003, 08:51 AM
maybe nav had a crush on gigi fernandez :eek:

propi
Jun 24th, 2003, 08:57 AM
Even in Conchita's prime, she could not come close to handling Arantxa or Steffi. that is why she never won the french.

as people have noted, her wimbledon title came to her on the back of a very nice draw.
Well Against ASV sshe has an horrible record, it's true but you must realize she used to win the first set and some break and suddenly puff all collapse.
Against Graf I won't forget her two matches: INdian Wells final when she lost 7-6, 7-6 :mad: and RG semi in 95 losing in three sets in a huge match.
AH! BTW in WImby 1995 her semi against ASV she lost in three sets but remember that on the radio was said she was suffering horrible pain in her feet due to blisters :fiery: