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View Full Version : Tennis must declare its anti racism procedure


All4Williams
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:11 AM
We demand to know. What anti racism procedures have the ATP and WTA got in place. Every other public body has them. In particular what steps do they take when a crowd gets out of hand to the level it did yesterday.

per4ever
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:13 AM
and again.. IT WAS NO RACISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

or is Martina Hingis suddenly black? :rolleyes: damned blacks should be positively discriminated before they stop talking about racism.

Flatstat
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:13 AM
Yes, I am sick of the Racism flowing from the Williams family and there fans :(

It is not a crime to be white :)

All4Williams
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:16 AM
Its not a crime to be white. In fact some of the very best people in the world are white. Some of my favourite poeple are white. Its a crime though to be white and verbally abuse others.

Greenout
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:16 AM
' For the hundreth time...the French are not
racists!! How do you explain Yannick Noah?

I've seen more crowd racism directed at
Asian, and Middle Eastern players in American
events than I have at Serena or Venus. American
crowds have no respect for them at all. They
don't yell things at them; but their condescending
attitude and total indifference is obvious. You don't
see these players throwing out the race card whenever
the match doesn't go there way.

Serena, and Venus have it so easy.

If there's anybody racists it's Americans. Yes, us!!
We expect everyone to speak English, we expect everyone
to love us, we expect everyone to do things our way.
I think it's really telling that some posters here were making
a big thing about Justine's French accent. If insulting someone's
accent when they speak English isn't a racist comment I don't
know what is!!!

MartinaI
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:18 AM
I doubt there was any racism involved, it's just an easy excuse for non-white people to bring out when situations get tough. Basically deal with situations you find yourself in, in a grown up manner and you'll be respected for it!

People really support Chanda Rubin, myself included, becasue she is a good player and because she is a kind and generous person. This is somehting the Williams sisters must prove that they are too.

I went to a school with many overseas students and do not regard people who have a different coloured skin as any different. People should be treated equally and fairly BUT only if they deserve it, ie are pleasant, decent, kind and unselfish. It's the basic rule of humanity surely?

Flatstat
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:19 AM
Its not a crime to be white. In fact some of the very best people in the world are white. Some of my favourite poeple are white. Its a crime though to be white and verbally abuse others.

It is also a crime to refer to a crowd as racist when they were obviously not. Martina Hingis, Arantxa Sanchez and Martina Navratilova are just 3 names that automatically come to mind to disprove your assertions.

DunkMachine
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:34 AM
It IS racism. 100% definate racism. Were talking about crowds acting hatefully against a player not just cheering in support of the other.

They acted like Serena was somekind of criminal when she never did anything that deserved this treatment. They never would verbally attack Davenport like this when she was no. 1.

Let me ask you something per4ever would you have done the same things the belgians in that crowd did?

per4ever
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:38 AM
some things yes ;) but I agree that it run out of hand.. booing someone for missing a first serve is terrible.

Believe me this is NOT racism. It's just the perfect excuse for blacks to use when people are not rooting for them.

Lisbeth
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:38 AM
No but they verbally attacked Martina Hingis even worse - and she's pretty much the same race as the average French person, isn't she?

But to answer your question, no I would not do it myself, but I think it's bad manners not racism. You can't have a policy that no-one can ever cheer against anyone who is not white.

On the other hand, they certainly should have a racism policy to prevent players being excluded from tournaments etc but from what happened to the Israelis I guess they don't.

Flatstat
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:40 AM
It IS racism. 100% definate racism. Were talking about crowds acting hatefully against a player not just cheering in support of the other.

They acted like Serena was somekind of criminal when she never did anything that deserved this treatment. They never would verbally attack Davenport like this when she was no. 1.

Let me ask you something per4ever would you have done the same things the belgians in that crowd did?

So I guess you have never seen Davis cup?

I can only imagine you are saying these crowds were RACIST against Hingis, ASV and Navratilova? or like many many people on this board you have no idea what the word RACISM means or the implications of using it in a false manner. It just sounds good to use it in an argument when you have nothing else to back yourself up with

Andy_
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:41 AM
I think maybe, sometimes, Serena and Venus have actually been victims of racism. But, honestly, France is a multi-cultural and multi-ethnical society, they've dealt brilliantly with immigration and, for instance, the situation is much better than it is here in Italy. Yesterday the crowd were against Serena not because she's a black girl, but simply because she hasn't been able to capture their support as Justine has done. Serena is a great player and a huge fighter, but that aggressiveness and killer instinct, her saying "I lost because I played badly, she didn't deserve to win", her declarations against the French during Gulf War II... they didn't quite give her a positive aura, going into the French Open
Otherwise the crowd should have booed Rubin, too, when she played Justine in the quarterfinals, but they didn't. They should have booed Venus against Zvonareva (who was the underdog just as well).

Jakeev
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:45 AM
So I guess you have never seen Davis cup?

I can only imagine you are saying these crowds were RACIST against Hingis, ASV and Navratilova? or like many many people on this board you have no idea what the word RACISM means or the implications of using it in a false manner. It just sounds good to use it in an argument when you have nothing else to back yourself up with

Bravo!!!!!!! Not sure what a dutch jerk like Skankmachine knows about racism anyway.

But..............the French........their reputation for being arrogant, rude and obnioxous only continues.

All4Williams
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:51 AM
Every public body should have an anti racism policy. Period. Nobody is asking that blacks be given any special favours. You sink or swim according to your ability.

Flatstat - you need this Info. At a Davis Cup the home team would have been discipled by the umpire. That rule is clearly stated and yesterday would have called for its application.

We are noty arguing about whether Serena should or should not have won the match.

We are saying that Serena and Venus or any other player should not be exposed to that level of Booing and abuse. If Serena says that she loses only when she plays badly, it is her belief. Whether or not that belief helps her is up to her. She should not be booed for saying that.

King Lindsay
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:52 AM
We demand to know. What anti racism procedures have the ATP and WTA got in place. Every other public body has them. In particular what steps do they take when a crowd gets out of hand to the level it did yesterday.

What exactly would you want them to do?

DunkMachine
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:55 AM
some things yes ;) but I agree that it run out of hand.. booing someone for missing a first serve is terrible.

Believe me this is NOT racism. It's just the perfect excuse for blacks to use when people are not rooting for them.

And that my friend is BULLSHIT. You think that saying that is just another excuse. How the hell can you know there is absolutely no possibility of any racist feelings in aan entire hatefull crowd. How the FUCK can you know. What were saying is that it can be an underlying motive. The first dominant black tennis players are being treated disrespectfully for no proper reason allmost exclusively. Hmmz why is that?! Chanda is a puppy and a mediocre player and gets no attention because of that. But Vee and Reena are sensational and a better target.

Everything evolves and sadly so does racism. Racists are dumb, but they ain't retarded enough to let their motives be apparent.

I don't give a rat fuck if you don't like the Williamses I do however take offense when "fans" start being hatefull. I'm not hatefull towards anyone except Hingis. WHY?! Because she is a poor excuse for an athlete, she has no heart and love for the game because she's a quitter. But I still applauded her points and appreciate her skill.

XMan
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:56 AM
Maybe we should have an anti anti-racism nonsense procedure. This has nothing to do with racism at all! The crowd was cheering for the underdog, many of them where fans of Justine (Belgians, French speaking) and they felt that Justine could win. They just didn't sympathise with Serena and it got worse because of those line calls. Serena was right about that but you can't bash on the crowd for this. I was also very emotional in front of my TV-screen, everyone there must have been very emotional. It's just normal, even if it is not always fair for the opponent. This stupid racism nonsense should stop. Is there racism in athletics? or golf? or NBA?

It will not be in Serena's favour if this "anti-racism" talk will continue in the future. It is not a way to become popular. It's a natural self-reflex that people will not sympathise anymore with a player that puts their ethics in doubt.

All4Williams
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:56 AM
andy-c76.
Serena said that when she loses a match, she likes to believe that it was because she played badly. This gives her something to work on. Instead of too bad "the other person played very well" which lives her nothing to work on for the future.
Now the level at which Serena speaks and is willing to go to to improve is beyond many people's comprehension that is why they fail to understand these simple statements.

King Lindsay
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:57 AM
andy-c76.
Serena said that when she loses a match, she likes to believe that it was because she played badly. This gives her something to work on. Instead of too bad "the other person played very well" which lives her nothing to work on for the future.
Now the level at which Serena speaks and is willing to go to to improve is beyond many people's comprehension that is why they fail to understand these simple statements.

Answer my question. I'm dying to know what you would do.

All4Williams
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:59 AM
King Lindsay,

The umpire should stop - postpone the match until the crowd gains a measure of self control. Tennis is not supposed to be a bull fight.

Flatstat
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:00 AM
And that my friend is BULLSHIT. You think that saying that is just another excuse. How the hell can you know there is absolutely no possibility of any racist feelings in aan entire hatefull crowd. How the FUCK can you know. What were saying is that it can be an underlying motive. The first dominant black tennis players are being treated disrespectfully for no proper reason allmost exclusively. Hmmz why is that?! Chanda is a puppy and a mediocre player and gets no attention because of that. But Vee and Reena are sensational and a better target.

Everything evolves and sadly so does racism. Racists are dumb, but they ain't retarded enough to let their motives be apparent.

I don't give a rat fuck if you don't like the Williamses I do however take offense when "fans" start being hatefull. I'm not hatefull towards anyone except Hingis. WHY?! Because she is a poor excuse for an athlete, she has no heart and love for the game because she's a quitter. But I still applauded her points and appreciate her skill.

Well that post certainly sums you up as the idiot you obviously are.

(My comment is Ridicule, not racism by the way)

DunkMachine
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:03 AM
Well that post certainly sums you up as the idiot you obviously are.

(My comment is Ridicule, not racism by the way)

Have you read the post? Yes, and you can't fuck with it.

Bye

All4Williams
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:04 AM
XMan,

It is not in Serena's favour. I agree with that. That is why Serena will never go there. I am afraid though that it happened at a public event. Our children need a future and a hope that they can interact safely with the white world. Too bad - Serena is now a role model whether from choice or not. That incident affected many blacks kids. This is for them not just for Serena.

per4ever
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:07 AM
And that my friend is BULLSHIT. You think that saying that is just another excuse. How the hell can you know there is absolutely no possibility of any racist feelings in aan entire hatefull crowd. How the FUCK can you know. What were saying is that it can be an underlying motive. The first dominant black tennis players are being treated disrespectfully for no proper reason allmost exclusively. Hmmz why is that?! Chanda is a puppy and a mediocre player and gets no attention because of that. But Vee and Reena are sensational and a better target.

Everything evolves and sadly so does racism. Racists are dumb, but they ain't retarded enough to let their motives be apparent.

I don't give a rat fuck if you don't like the Williamses I do however take offense when "fans" start being hatefull. I'm not hatefull towards anyone except Hingis. WHY?! Because she is a poor excuse for an athlete, she has no heart and love for the game because she's a quitter. But I still applauded her points and appreciate her skill.
Just look at your language in this post...I wonder who's the dumb one here.

You see racism everywhere..as long as people won't root for Serena and Venus all the time, you won't be happy, because it will always be racism.

by the way..why do you root for the sisters? Because they are black like you? isn't this a racist point of view?

treufreund
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:08 AM
serena does EVERYTHING she can to make herself disliked. I am sorry but the proof is in the pudding. two years ago the Williams were the darling of the French press and public. they were loved as kids with beads and style. now she is detested as uberpower uberbitch ultrafake tiara wearing, french accent mocking, evil glare giving, screeching, overpowering, arrogant, I never lose unless I am off my game, DIVA! YES SHE IS a bitchy melodramatic diva who loses a point after asking for yet another first serve when she should not have served in the first place who then cries and calls her opponent a liar and barely shakes her hand and cannot figure out why people don't just ADORE her!

All4Williams
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:17 AM
Truefreund,
You do hate Serena. her style is obviously not yourstyle. She still does not deserve your verbal abuse.

King Lindsay
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:29 AM
King Lindsay,

The umpire should stop - postpone the match until the crowd gains a measure of self control. Tennis is not supposed to be a bull fight.

don't you think that would be incredibly retarded? No offense, but what is he going to say? "Hey all you paying customers! quit enjoying the product and sit on your hands like the children you are!" the fans make tennis possible, and they should be able to say what they like.

Doris Loeffel
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:30 AM
Hmmm so everybody who dislikes Serena and Venus is a racist. Then I have to admit it I'm one too!! Go get the handcuffs and arrest me!!

Geee that Serena and Venus are black isn't their fault but it isn't the publics fault either and to call everybody a racist just becouse they happen to dislike a black player and support a white one then I guess you have to put the whole world in jail....

Flatstat
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:30 AM
Truefreund,
You do hate Serena. her style is obviously not yourstyle. She still does not deserve your verbal abuse.

Nor do we deserve your condescending attitude

Jakeev
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:34 AM
Nor do we deserve your condescending attitude

Bravo!!!!!!!!!! then again we are hearing crap from both Henin and Williams fans.........

Flatstat
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:37 AM
Bravo!!!!!!!!!! then again we are hearing crap from both Henin and Williams fans.........

Yes I know, but what can you do?

All4Williams
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:38 AM
King Lindsay,

When people misbehave in Pub(lic) or at club they get thrown out. Being able to pay does not give anyone a right to abuse the etiquette of the place. We are not talking about etiquette here though. He are talking about human rights. Serena's human rights were abused yesterday.

Jakeev
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:38 AM
Yes I know, but what can you do?


Make them both look like idiots.......hehehehe :devil:

Dennis
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:39 AM
I don't think either that it has anything to do with the racism !
Those Belgian supporters behaved horribly towards Monica in Dubai final. I was there live !
They behaved like football huliganes.

Flatstat
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:40 AM
Make them both look like idiots.......hehehehe :devil:

All4williams/becool/Broncosven do not need our help in that area ;)

All4Williams
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:41 AM
Perhaps Belgian Tennis hooligans should be treated like British football hooligans, get thrown out of places.

per4ever
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:41 AM
King Lindsay,

When people misbehave in Pub(lic) or at club they get thrown out. Being able to pay does not give anyone a right to abuse the etiquette of the place. We are not talking about etiquette here though. He are talking about human rights. Serena's human rights were abused yesterday.
when were her human rights abused???? getting booed when you miss...it's not nice...but does it take away your human rights????

Jakeev
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:42 AM
King Lindsay,

When people misbehave in Pub(lic) or at club they get thrown out. Being able to pay does not give anyone a right to abuse the etiquette of the place. We are not talking about etiquette here though. He are talking about human rights. Serena's human rights were abused yesterday.


Waiiiiiiittt just a minute unlightened one. Serena was a competitor in a tennis match. And yes she was unfairly booed. But what human right was abused just exactly? The fact she was booed?

I hated that as much as you but don't get dramatic about it hear me? If they were throwing stones, bottles or tried to attack her on court then that would be different story.

Please stop being melodramatic would you and at least think about what you are saying.

King Lindsay
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:44 AM
King Lindsay,

When people misbehave in Pub(lic) or at club they get thrown out. Being able to pay does not give anyone a right to abuse the etiquette of the place. We are not talking about etiquette here though. He are talking about human rights. Serena's human rights were abused yesterday.

It's not a club. and crowd yesterday behaved much better than crowds at just about any other sporting event you can name. Tennis crowds are MILD MILD MILD. Mild as hell in comparison to just about any sport that's not bowling.

And no, Serena's human rights were not abused. She's a professional athlete, these things come with the territory. You take the millions of the dollars, you take the fame and glory, but you also get the bad side. You're a public figure, and if people don't like you, they can express that.

Just curious, but do you watch any other sports? If you honestly think the crowd at a tennis match was vociferous and rowdy, I can't imagine you spend much time watching soccer, or baseball, football, etc.

All4Williams
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:45 AM
Flatstat -you are being abusive to me to me. I do not wish to engage in any sort of abuse. Plesae do not abuse me. I have not abused you.

Flatstat
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:45 AM
Waiiiiiiittt just a minute unlightened one. Serena was a competitor in a tennis match. And yes she was unfairly booed. But what human right was abused just exactly? The fact she was booed?

I hated that as much as you but don't get dramatic about it hear me? If they were throwing stones, bottles or tried to attack her on court then that would be different story.

Please stop being melodramatic would you and at least think about what you are saying.

Of course it was abuse of her Human Rights, after all her prize money is only 25% of what she expected ;)

All4Williams
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:50 AM
King Lindsay,

All the sports you are mentioning are not one on one. In addition when a crowd gets too rowdy the sporting association take action to control the rowdy mob. It happens in soccer - football to us. British fans thought to b elong to arowdy mob are denied entry to some events and trcaked down by police. No this occassion did not need the police. However the crowd was abusive to Serena. Their conduct was abusive by all means cheer for your favourite but their actions went far beyond that and became obstructive.

King Lindsay
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:51 AM
King Lindsay,

All the sports you are mentioning are not one on one. In addition when a crowd gets too rowdy the sporting association take action to control the rowdy mob. It happens in soccer - football to us. British fans thought to b elong to arowdy mob are denied entry to some events and trcaked down by police. No this occassion did not need the police. However the crowd was abusive to Serena. Their conduct was abusive by all means cheer for your favourite but their actions went far beyond that and became obstructive.

you're talking about hooligans, people who start riots. there was no rioting going on at the French.

why does it matter that those sports aren't one on one? What is the difference?

propi
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:55 AM
King Lindsay,

When people misbehave in Pub(lic) or at club they get thrown out. Being able to pay does not give anyone a right to abuse the etiquette of the place. We are not talking about etiquette here though. He are talking about human rights. Serena's human rights were abused yesterday.
This is tiring..........
Sorry racism and Human rights are too seriuos issues to be named in this context.
If you talk about racism and HUman rightstalk about those who only for being Moslims, black or whaever were killed not for the mean behaviour or people watching a tennis match.
In Davis cup matches in Brazil people may behave worse, in Chile- Argentina some years ago people started throwing things, was it because of racism???
No just rivality and people "supporting" their favourites.
What happened yesterday was awful, yes but it was neither the first nor the last time: remember 1996 RG final when ASV was leading Graf in the 3 set and each point she was booed because against Habsudova she won moonballing

All4Williams
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:00 PM
King Lindsay,

Tennis is full of rules and regulations that are place to maintain a civilised sport. In Britain many clubs insist on white only policy in the court. The tennis crowd yesterday jeered, booed and whistled at Serena in a manner that was intimidating and obstructive. It was abuse. Serena has a Human right not to be abused when on the court. And so does every other player. It should not happen at any match, Grand Slam, Fed Cuo or Davis cup. it should not happen to any one black or white. The WTA should now have clear guidelines for grandslam events as they do for Fed cup.

Frau Antje
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:51 PM
it wasn't racism. It was all Serena's fault.
If she opens her big mouth and says stuff like "I want to win every singles match in 2003" she doesn't have to wonder why a crowd reacts like this ...

All4Williams
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:54 PM
Fau Antje,
That was her desire to win every single one. Its a high expectation of herslef. She also added however - I know its going to be hard. Please add some balance.

*JR*
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:27 PM
2 things to consider:
The French public in the 1920's fell in love with Josephine Baker, a beautiful black American entertainer who refused to accept "the way things were" for blacks in the U.S. (like Paul Robeson, and unlike the many black jazz legends who played to all-white audiences). She spent most of her adult life in France.
In a way, getting slammed over one's play or behavior regardless of race is a compliment. Not to do so if people felt Serena (or those blasted Yanks more broadly :eek: ) "deserved it" (regardless of whether they were right, BTW) would have been terribly condescending.

Julian
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:39 PM
I don't see racism at all...I for one also think it's an excuse given for the boos..I mean what if Serena was white and was given the same amount of boos?? Would the white people say it was racism?? This is totally getting out of hand and IMO it's mixed with our uncontrolled society and unchangeable past..pretty sad.

What I think is because the French crowd KNOWS who their crowd favorite is and will always root for their player to even the extent of boos. Arantxa was booed at just for HITTING LOBS in 1996! But did I think it was racism? No it's because they didn't like it! lol Simple as that. I for one also think it's because they wanted the underdog to win..I mean I'm not a racist but I always have this feeling that I don't want a Williams' sister to win every freaking grand slam lol, so I would root for the other player as well. That doesn't mean that I don't like the Williams' though, just wanted to point that out.

starr
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:45 PM
I am laughing my head off over this thread.

I wonder if the originator felt that Hingis's human rights were being abused when the French crowd savaged her? That booing was much louder and continued far longer than what happened with Serena.

Unless you are an absolute crowd favorite, there is no way you can get by with calling the lines the way Serena did. The crowd gets on every player for doing that. It was worse for Serena because she had just spent her last match glowering and sending vicious hateful looks toward Mauresmo. I know the American commentators smiled and smirked about her "look," but I think it fair to assume that French fans of Mauresmo didn't think the "looks" were so admirable. There are always people at the French Open who like to get into the match.

But did no one hear the large number of shhhhhhhh's from the crowd as well when a minority of the crowd called out between serves or points?

And All4Williams... if you think that there are penalties for Davis Cup crowds who engage in something as mild as what happened yesterday, you haven't watched Davis Cup. The crowd is only sanctioned for behavior that goes far, far, far beyond some booing and cat calling for a few games. It's only when objects get thrown onto the court etc.

lol... they are banging drums and ringing bells and hooting horns. At some matches the spectators are shining mirrors into the server's eyes. I don't agree with this, but to say that Davis Cup crowds would be penalized for the comparitively mild razzing Serena took, is simply wrong.

starr
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:50 PM
But I don't think French people are above predjudice, bigotry, and racism. The history of the treatment of North African emmigrants isn't a nice one, and the current wave of burnings of synagouges and chants of "kill the jews" at demonstations isn't so sweet either.

Kirt12255
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:18 PM
We demand to know. What anti racism procedures have the ATP and WTA got in place. Every other public body has them. In particular what steps do they take when a crowd gets out of hand to the level it did yesterday.

What does race have to do with it? What a stupid post....does the fact that one player was black and another was white create a race issue???

What is your'e point? Yes Serena lost and Yes Justine won't win sportswoman of the year for her tactics....has squat to do with race or religion or anything.

Perhaps you mean culture?? as in where skin type or background is irrelevant...by posting something like this you are only scratching matches on the side of the box.

Every single slam has black women in their society....to try and slap a label on that crowd is ludicrous....arrogant and un-educated....perhaps they are.

This was never a race issue and it won't leave the people who suffer from it when people use it as a lame excuse to vent anger.....IMO

TonyP
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:30 PM
You people should attend some other sporting events, like baseball games, basketball games or hockey matches, then complain about poor Serena's treatment.

What we need is less concern about race, not more.

And how would you know that the booing WAS caused by racism? Do you read minds? Was the booing of Hingis in '99 caused by racism? Or anti-Swiss feeling, or anti-short girl feelings?

It had to do with French players, but even that does not make you immune from being booed at Roland Garros. Mary Pierce has been booed loudly there and they think of her as French -- when she wins!

*JR*
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:49 PM
There IS a missing element to the debate, IMO. (Apologies if anyone raised it in one of these many threads). After IW '01, the W/S decided to forego this $3MM tournament to say "you need us more than we need you", "we can be on top even without points from this Tier I", etc. However, Slams are different, as career title totals, etc. have a special place in tennis history. Now I'm NOT saying the French are racists, though LePen's 18% vote means a measurable minority of them are. (See my above post re. the "right 2B equally dissed", and the French love affair with Josephine Baker in their defense). It's just that in general a Slam has a higher standard to uphold, IMO.

rhz
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:53 PM
Hey It WASN'T RACISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

c2
Jun 6th, 2003, 05:33 PM
Uh, since two African-American women were #1 and #2 until very recently, and have been in the finals together for oh, like the last four slams, how do you figure that tennis is racist?

Unless you are talking about the crowds, and curing everyone in the crowd of racism is a pretty tall order for tennis to take on... :rolleyes:

XMan
Jun 6th, 2003, 05:33 PM
XMan,

It is not in Serena's favour. I agree with that. That is why Serena will never go there. I am afraid though that it happened at a public event. Our children need a future and a hope that they can interact safely with the white world. Too bad - Serena is now a role model whether from choice or not. That incident affected many blacks kids. This is for them not just for Serena.

It should not affect black kids. First of all because it wasn't about race at all, or to say it with the words of somebody of the crowd: "I don't like Serena. She does not respect her opponents". There are other reasons why the crowd didn't sympathize with Serena.
Secondly, I think that it is wrong that black people see Serena as a role model because she is black. I understand that many black people still feel that they are in an underdog position in many Western countries but this shouldn't be a reason to support a black instead of white person if it's only based on skin colour. It is racism on a lower level and it will never be a good attitude for a good interaction with people of different skin colour.

c2
Jun 6th, 2003, 05:52 PM
All4Williams I really don't think Flatstat was being abusive! Please.. for you to call him that when DunkMachine was using every swear word in the book just shows you don't have a leg to stand on. It further weakens your argument that tennis is racist.. for if you can't even identify abusive behavior, how can you identify racism?

*JR*
Jun 6th, 2003, 06:36 PM
As long as this subject was brought up long B4 I said a word about it, some serious observations: the (US) poster on GoTennis that SJW and I were joking about in her thead "craziest, stupidist reasons..." used to call the W/S Unamerican B4 they finally reigned him in. So if Serena was partly booed for being an American, it's a recognition some of her fellow citizens could learn from. :rolleyes: If Serena won all the time, it would fuel the vilest racism, even "in code", that blacks have some enormous genetic advantage, blah. (This is NOT saying she lost on purpose, merely that her race is basically, you guessed it, human).It's OK for blacks to particularly root for other blacks, esp. the very successful W/S, because while Althea Gibson and Arthur Ashe "got in the door", the sisters kicked it in. Sorry, but the desire to "show them" is a valid one.On the other hand, the "ultra-nationalism" of even as intelligent a "tennis guy" as Eggy is disturbing. I chided him for belittling BEL's talented 17 y.o. Kirsten Flipkens by implying that (the even more talented) Vera Douchevina of RUS had been sub-par by only winning 6-7, 6-1, 6-3 in the RG Juniors. The post was soon deleted (but copied by me to the Kirsten thread in the Belgian Babes Band). Unlike American blacks, Russians weren't shut out of sports; in fact the top athletes even in Soviet days were treated as elites in society. There will indeed be Russian slam winners this decade and their compatriots should be proud. There's a fine line between pride and chauvanism, though.

gweeny
Jun 6th, 2003, 07:49 PM
Well it might not be racism, but the French crowd are IDIOTS. There booing and HARRASMENT of serena and Hingis is utterly pathetic, unwarranted or not warranted. There have been too many tears on the French courts in recent histoy. Now I understand why Ameile Mauresmo croaks in each French open. She is scared of those pathetic French crowd.