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View Full Version : Let's get the facts straight about that handraising thing, OK ?


GoDominique
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:25 PM
1. Yes, Justine raised her hand.
2. Serena didn’t see it, served and missed it, then noticed that Justine was holding her hand up.
3. Serena asked Diaz if she gets a first serve, then said that Justine raised her hand.
4. Diaz asked Justine about that, but you could neither hear nor see what her answer was.
5. Diaz said “I didn’t see it” and didn’t give Serena a first serve.

I don’t know whether Justine lied or not and whether Serena’s cold hand-shake was deserved or not.
Fact is: The result was not unfair for Serena. She was willing to serve and wasn’t influenced when serving as she didn’t see Justine. So it was a normal 1st serve missed. Logically she didn’t deserve another one.

Crazy Canuck
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:34 PM
Actually GoDom, I will have you know that the entire tournament conspired to get Serena to lose in the semifinals. Justine actually lost in the first round you see, but they kept bumping her up and changing results in the hope that she would have enough to knock out Serena. When this looked like it wouldnt' be enough, they got the crowd - who they had previously programmed to boo on command- to get on Serena so that she would lose her cool. Given the French crowd's history of excellent manners and Serena's inability to play well when the crowd is on her back, this was the obvious solution.

Glad I could clear that up for you :kiss:

Tratree
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:38 PM
Thanks, Rebecca. Also, to be scientific for a moment, it was the enormous breeze created by the crowds boos that continually blew Serena's shots several feet wide and long of the lines. Damn those Parisians!!!

Bella
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:39 PM
You had me, Rebecca, all the way through the French crowd's history of excellent manners, but I figured it out with that "Serena's inability" thing.

GoDominique
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:40 PM
Thanks Rebecca and Tratree. :)

irma
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:46 PM
but if she didn't see it then how did she knew it?

did justine raise her hand after serena served?

it doesn't make sense!

Dava
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:48 PM
And if she saw it, why did she serve?

auntie janie
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:49 PM
I don't get it either.

But whatever happened, I don't think it was a big enough deal to start World War III! :eek:

GoDominique
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:52 PM
but if she didn't see it then how did she knew it?

did justine raise her hand after serena served?

it doesn't make sense!
No irma, Serena had already started her service motion when Justine raised her hand. Then when Serena had hit the ball she saw Justine who was still raising her hand.
Actually I can't really imagine that Justine blatantly lied about this by just saying "I didn't do it", but who knows.

GoDominique
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:55 PM
I have edited the initial post now. ;) It wasn't really clear, I have to admit that. :o

Tratree
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:56 PM
Ultimately, it doesn't really matter. Serena didn't lose the match because of that incident, just like Petrova didn't lose because of the net cord in the first semi. They both had NUMEROUS chances to win and they didn't. Justine played great tennis. Serena was spotty. The crowd was rude...STOP THE PRESSES....welcome to the French Open. Serena has played in worse conditions and won.

irma
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:58 PM
what did justine say about it. there are not transcripts on the website(I am to lazy to listen to the audio)

GoDominique
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:00 PM
Ultimately, it doesn't really matter. Serena didn't lose the match because of that incident, just like Petrova didn't lose because of the net cord in the first semi. They both had NUMEROUS chances to win and they didn't. Justine played great tennis. Serena was spotty. The crowd was rude...STOP THE PRESSES....welcome to the French Open. Serena has played in worse conditions and won.

I agree. But people are saying "Serena was robbed of her win" and that is just total nonsense. And I'm not sure how they found out that Justine cheated.

treufreund
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:31 PM
also SERENA DID SHAKE JUSTINE'S HAND but only very coldly. It was the chair ump that she blew off. :eek:

auntie janie
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:36 PM
Serena did go back and shake the Umpire's hand; I saw it. She even smiled.

franny
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:36 PM
i can't wait to see this match again, tape it, and play it over and over to try to see what justine sed. If she did lie, then omg i will no longer like her. If she didn't, then serena fans just shut up.

ptkten
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:37 PM
no...she didn't blow off the chair ump, she forgot to shake his hand and when she realized she did, five seconds later she went over shook his hand and apologized for not doing so earlier and then they both laughed about something. People are so quick to jump on Serena :rolleyes:

Jordan.
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:53 PM
Even before Justine raised her hand, it was obvious that she wasnt ready. She was standing straight up and waiting for the crowd to cease. Serena started serving and she put her hand up to let Serena know she STILL wasnt ready. Sheesh....

Tarsius
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:17 PM
So they're saying that Serena lost because of that? Not because she didn't chase that lob? Not because she failed to return of Justine's shots when she approached to volley? Not because of that wide forehand?

I thought this was tennis? Will raising a hand earn you a break point? Im confused.

c2
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:18 PM
heheheheheh Tarsius good one ;)

1jackson2001
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:24 PM
OK, GoDom. ;)

Celeste
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:34 PM
Ronnie says Justine nodded when the umpire looked at her (once again I was away :( ). Either way, even if you assume the worst from Justine, it is up to Serena to put it out of her mind. It was not match point. The crowd was terrible to Serena, unspeakably horrible, and maybe Justine was bad also even assuming the worst about her, but that's the French Open folks, remember the '99 final? Serena's job, as she so aptly put it after he match with Amelie, was to play in a bubble. Justine's good play coupled with Serena's apparent inability to ignore the crowd and get in a bubble cost her today. A tennis player has to be able to ignore the crowd, Serena has done it before, apparently could not do it today.

Every great champion has lost a close one at a slam that she probably should have won. Serena got that lesson today. Why should she be any different from Steffi, Martina 1, Martina 2, Chris, Monica, and all the rest.

While I am a Serena fan and like her more than Justine, I do have to laugh at Serena a little. She was fairly ungracious, though not untruthful, after the Charleston final when discussing her loss ("I played bad".) She did, but I think Justine took that comment and Serena's inability to give Justine any credit hard, and as we see today, Justine played great against her and beat her again. I do think that Serena, as much as I like her, needs to learn to give some credit to other players a little more, even if she has to fudge a little. When she give Justine no credit after Charleston, you know that Justine will be out for blood, and despite popular belief, tennis is still largely mental.

Serena was treated like shit today, but she could have won. It was in her hands.

c2
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:41 PM
Excellent post Celeste...

Lisbeth
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:43 PM
Yes, excellent post Celeste. I don't know the truth of it but a close 3 set match between champions should not hinge on one point like this any more than it would hinge on one bad line call.

Martian Mel
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:59 PM
You guys don't get it....Justine was WAVING to the crowd....they weren't booing enough becoz Serena was still leading so she waved at them saying:hello guys!!I AM JUSTINE!You should BOO serena because i'm not leading right now!

THAT'S WHAT HAPPEND!

Terri77
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:11 AM
First Serena didn't shake Justine's hand then she didn't shake the umpire's hand. I wonder what match some people were watching.

~ The Leopard ~
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:38 AM
Fact is: The result was not unfair for Serena. She was willing to serve and wasn’t influenced when serving as she didn’t see Justine. So it was a normal 1st serve missed. Logically she didn’t deserve another one.

I didn't see it, but this sounds logical to me, if the facts are as GoDominique explained them. I don't understand what the fuss is about.

If it's true that Serena's serve was not influenced by Justine's gesture, and she served normally anyway, why should she have had the benefit of the serve not counting as a fault? All very confusing. :confused:

Good post by Celeste, too.

i heart backhand
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:49 AM
hello guys!!I AM JUSTINE!You should BOO serena because i'm not leading right now!

Like OMG are you serious? You're like a celebrity, [B]MAJOR![/B Can I have your autograph?! :hearts:


;)

F-R-E-A-K
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:50 AM
Well justine never lied.

Henin-Hardenne plainly did not lie because she did not speak, and it did Williams no favors to throw such accusations at a player not known for gamesmanship of any kind. Williams was quick to admit the incident was not a turning point in the match and had no bearing on the result, and was equally quick to say that Henin-Hardenne deserved the win. In any case, the crowd had already decided where their allegiances lay and Williams had long since antagonized the crowd by calling her own lines – never a smart move at Roland Garros. Hingis could have told her that.

treufreund
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:57 AM
justine did not speak. serena is making a grave mistake calling her a liar. she should apologize to justine. :fiery:

CC
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:12 AM
Thanks, Rebecca. Also, to be scientific for a moment, it was the enormous breeze created by the crowds boos that continually blew Serena's shots several feet wide and long of the lines. Damn those Parisians!!!

For a moment there I thought this thread was veering down that spiral path towards trite, tired humor seen in a few other threads. But then Celeste brought her objective insight and delivered us. Yaay! :)

Midnite Surfer
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:22 AM
I want people to honestly...and I mean HONESTLY ask yourselves. What would you're reaction be if the shoe were on the other foot? If Serena had raised her hand in the middle of Justine's serve and then denied after she realized the serve was out. What do you think this board would look like? People would be accusing Serena of being a lying bitch who was willing to do anything to win. A maniacal egotistical ice queen. But when something like this happens to Serena she's supposed to be the "bigger" person. THis is what WIlliams fans mean when they say Serena and Venus are held to a different standard.

And also, the french crowd was way out of line. I could not in good conscience do what they did to anyone, and I mean ANYONE. What a bunch of assholes. America jsut liberated Iraq from a tyrannical leader, now perhaps we should go over to France and liberate their leaders from an idiotic populace.

Crazy Canuck
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:35 AM
I want people to honestly...and I mean HONESTLY ask yourselves. What would you're reaction be if the shoe were on the other foot? If Serena had raised her hand in the middle of Justine's serve and then denied after she realized the serve was out. What do you think this board would look like? People would be accusing Serena of being a lying bitch who was willing to do anything to win. A maniacal egotistical ice queen. But when something like this happens to Serena she's supposed to be the "bigger" person. THis is what WIlliams fans mean when they say Serena and Venus are held to a different standard.

And also, the french crowd was way out of line. I could not in good conscience do what they did to anyone, and I mean ANYONE. What a bunch of assholes. America jsut liberated Iraq from a tyrannical leader, now perhaps we should go over to France and liberate their leaders from an idiotic populace.
The board would look exactly like it does now, but with people taking different sides. And assholes like me laughing at everybody no matter what. So what is your point exactly?

Midnite Surfer
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:43 AM
The board would look exactly like it does now, but with people taking different sides. And assholes like me laughing at everybody no matter what. So what is your point exactly?

The WIlliams haters are pretty silent right now Rebecca. You mean to tell me that you don't think they would all come riding in on their horses to tell the world what an evil lying bitch Serena is? Which board have you been reading. I'm actually not that upset by what transpired but I do feel sorry for people who have absolutely no insight when it comes to their own behavior. You know as well as I do that this board would be on fire with anti Serena threads. I think it's kind of funny.

Crazy Canuck
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:45 AM
The WIlliams haters are pretty silent right now Rebecca. You mean to tell me that you don't think they would all come riding in on their horses to tell the world what an evil lying bitch Serena is? Which board have you been reading. I'm actually not that upset by what transpired but I do feel sorry for people who have absolutely no insight when it comes to their own behavior. You know as well as I do that this board would be on fire with anti Serena threads. I think it's kind of funny.
Blah blah blah... eh?

In this case the "Williams haters" are replaced by bitter Williams fans who have been eating a few too many sour grapes, as well as the odd Justine "hater".

If the situation was reversed, you and other Williams fans would be all in defense of her, and the "haters" of Serena would be all over her.

It would be the EXACT same thing but reversed.

What part of this are you not getting?

Midnite Surfer
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:53 AM
Blah blah blah... eh?

In this case the "Williams haters" are replaced by bitter Williams fans who have been eating a few too many sour grapes, as well as the odd Justine "hater".

If the situation was reversed, you and other Williams fans would be all in defense of her, and the "haters" of Serena would be all over her.

It would be the EXACT same thing but reversed.

What part of this are you not getting?

That's what I'm talking about Rebecca. I would NOT defend Serena if she lied and I resent the fact that you assume I would. I don't support deceit there is enough of that going on in the world.

Crazy Canuck
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:54 AM
That's what I'm talking about Rebecca. I would NOT defend Serena if she lied and I resent the fact that you assume I would. I don't support deceit there is enough of that going on in the world.
Well good. I'm glad to hear that from you. In case you ahven't noticed though, posters like you are in the minority in GM.

Hurley
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:55 AM
When did Justine lie? Someone want to point me to that, please?

Martian Mel
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:55 AM
Like OMG are you serious? You're like a celebrity, [B]MAJOR![/B Can I have your autograph?! :hearts:


;)


lmao :cool:

Midnite Surfer
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:56 AM
Well good. I'm glad to hear that from you. In case you ahven't noticed though, posters like you are in the minority in GM.

Well thank you Rebecca.

Crazy Canuck
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:58 AM
When did Justine lie? Someone want to point me to that, please?
Didn't you see the part where she yelled "BITCH! I lied and you can't do shit about it! BITCH!" ?!

ARE YOU A GOVERNMENT AGENT?!

Hurley
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:59 AM
Didn't you see the part where she yelled "BITCH! I lied and you can't do shit about it! BITCH!" ?!

ARE YOU A GOVERNMENT AGENT?!

I did see that part. I think she lied about being a liar.

Midnite Surfer
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:00 AM
When did Justine lie? Someone want to point me to that, please?

The umpire asked her if she raised her hand in the middle of Serena's serve and Justine shook her head to say no. I'm sure Justine was caught up in the moment and I'm sure a lot of players in her situation would have done the same thing because it is sooo stressful out there. But it still shouldn't be supported and brushed off as "tennis".

And I'm sorry Rebecca, it may be sour grapes for some, but in reality it is poor sportsmanship. Serena has already won the slam, I as a fan don't feel like she particularly needs my support. I just love the sport of tennis and it breaks my heart to see it played that way.

Hurley
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:01 AM
The umpire asked her if she raised her hand in the middle of Serena's serve and Justine shook her head to say no. I'm sure Justine was caught up in the moment and I'm sure a lot of players in her situation would have done the same thing because it is sooo stressful out there. But it still shouldn't be supported and brushed off as "tennis".

Actually, I've seen the match twice. I haven't seen any proof of that.

Astro Jetson
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:03 AM
The umpire asked her if she raised her hand in the middle of Serena's serve and Justine shook her head to say no. I'm sure Justine was caught up in the moment and I'm sure a lot of players in her situation would have done the same thing because it is sooo stressful out there. But it still shouldn't be supported and brushed off as "tennis".

I checked it and Justine NEVER shook her head. She stood perfectly still when the umpire turned his head.

Hurley
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:06 AM
I did see her shrug. But I have no idea whether:
1) the umpire asked her anything
2) she responded to either Serena or the umpire at all
3) the shrug had anything to do with the discussion

For Serena to accuse her of "lying" is currently open for debate, and for Serena to accuse her of "fabricating" a manufactured story in the fifty or so seconds this took is just, well, wrong.

Midnite Surfer
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:07 AM
Actually, I've seen the match twice. I haven't seen any proof of that.

Well I suggest you watch it again. Because it most certainly did happen. It was at 4-2 in the third set. Serena was serving at 30-0. The srowd started booing as Serena asked if she could serve twice. You didn't see that? The commentators even pointed it out.

That being said, Serena shouldn't have ler that break her concentration. She was really starting to play up until the point and she definately had the momentum. She has to be stronger than that. It just sucks that it happened that way. Justine played a masterful match and it is now tainted by an unfortunate incident.

auntie janie
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:07 AM
Justine did not lie, she just shrugged impatiently as if to say, let's get on with it. I saw this.

Some distant day, maybe this board too can get on with things. But I won't hold my breath. ;)

Hurley
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:09 AM
Well I suggest you watch it again. Because it most certainly did happen. It was at 4-2 in the third set. Serena was serving at 30-0. The srowd started booing as Serena asked if she could serve twice. You didn't see that? The commentators even pointed it out.

That being said, Serena shouldn't have ler that break her concentration. She was really starting to play up until the point and she definately had the momentum. She has to be stronger than that. It just sucks that it happened that way. Justine played a masterful match and it is now tainted by an unfortunate incident.

Midnite Surfer. I saw all that. What you never said is that Justine lied. Still no evidence of that.

Midnite Surfer
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:11 AM
Justine did not lie, she just shrugged impatiently as if to say, let's get on with it. I saw this.

Some distant day, maybe this board too can get on with things. But I won't hold my breath. ;)

What's so hard about saying, "Yes Jorge. I had my hand up". "I wasn't ready." If the police come to your home and ask you if you murdered someone, would you "shrug you shoulders impatiently" and say "Let's get on with it"?

auntie janie
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:11 AM
Well I suggest you watch it again. Because it most certainly did happen. It was at 4-2 in the third set. Serena was serving at 30-0. The srowd started booing as Serena asked if she could serve twice. You didn't see that? The commentators even pointed it out.

That being said, Serena shouldn't have ler that break her concentration. She was really starting to play up until the point and she definately had the momentum. She has to be stronger than that. It just sucks that it happened that way. Justine played a masterful match and it is now tainted by an unfortunate incident.

Serena will soon look back at this match and be pretty disappointed in her game and in her reactions. Probably, she is doing so already.

Serena is used to winning every match she desperately wants to win. But no one can do that; we are only human. This match will make her a better player in the long run.

Not sure if the same can be said for wtaworld, though. Hard to remember that we sometimes have worthwhile and exciting discussions here. :kiss:

Hurley
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:12 AM
What's so hard about saying, "Yes Jorge. I had my hand up". "I wasn't ready." If the police come to your home and ask you if you murdered someone, would you "shrug you shoulders impatiently" and say "Let's get on with it"?

That's not LYING, now is it??

Midnite Surfer
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:13 AM
Midnite Surfer. I saw all that. What you never said is that Justine lied. Still no evidence of that.

Hurley, the umpire asked her if ahe had raised her hand to indicate that she wasn't ready to receive serve, and she refused to say yes. What is that called?

Hurley
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:14 AM
Hurley, the umpire asked her if ahe had raised her hand to indicate that she wasn't ready to receive serve, and she refused to say yes. What is that called?

You saw that? When? That's all I want to know. Because that certainly did not happen on my broadcast of the match, which I'm assuming was also yours, but I could be mistaken.

auntie janie
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:14 AM
If the police come to your home and ask you if you murdered someone, would you "shrug you shoulders impatiently" and say "Let's get on with it"?


LOL @ midnite surfer equating tennis with a murder inquiry! Now I've seen everything.

Goodbye, folks! I will return to General Messages at some time in the future if and when sense regains the upper hand here, and not before. What a waste of time.

F-R-E-A-K
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:15 AM
Henin-Hardenne plainly did not lie because she did not speak, and it did Williams no favors to throw such accusations at a player not known for gamesmanship of any kind. Williams was quick to admit the incident was not a turning point in the match and had no bearing on the result, and was equally quick to say that Henin-Hardenne deserved the win. In any case, the crowd had already decided where their allegiances lay and Williams had long since antagonized the crowd by calling her own lines – never a smart move at Roland Garros. Hingis could have told her that.

novemberrain
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:16 AM
When sense REGAINS the upper hand again?

:p

Good one.

Midnite Surfer
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:17 AM
LOL @ midnite surfer equating tennis with a murder inquiry! Now I've seen everything.

Goodbye, folks! I will return to General Messages at some time in the future if and when sense regains the upper hand here, and not before. What a waste of time.

LOL@janie. Unable to understand that a lie is a lie. Unfortunately I have seen this before.

Hurley
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:17 AM
I did see her shrug. But I have no idea whether:
1) the umpire asked her anything
2) she responded to either Serena or the umpire at all
3) the shrug had anything to do with the discussion

Like I said, I didn't see the umpire say anything to Justine. If anyone actually did, I would love to hear about it.

Midnite Surfer
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:20 AM
Like I said, I didn't see the umpire say anything to Justine. If anyone actually did, I would love to hear about it.

The camera was on Serena when she asked the ump the question. He then turned and asked Justine. Ok I'm done with this. This is a monumental wasste of time. I suggest you watch the match again Hurley.

Rtael
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:22 AM
Hurley, the umpire asked her if ahe had raised her hand to indicate that she wasn't ready to receive serve, and she refused to say yes. What is that called?


lol, how would you know? I think Justine looked over at the empire to see what Serena was complaining about and when the Umpire told her what Serena said she just shurgged...

Midnite Surfer
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:25 AM
ROFLMFAO. Whatever. Yeah that's exactly what happened. Good night.

Venus Forever
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:28 AM
I think many of you take things way too literally.

Serena saying Justine "lied" may have basically meant that Justine didn't confess to holding her hand up.

I mean, please, do we have to get technical too?? :rolleyes:

Max_Tennis02
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:29 AM
The first serve should've been replayed. If the returner puts their hand up during a serve, the serve should be automatically replayed... it doesn't matter whether or not the server saw it, the serve goes in or out, etc. This happened in the 91 French Open final between Monica and Arantxa. Arantxa put her hand up in the middle of Monica's service motion, Monica didn't see it, the serve went in, and Monica still had to serve again. It doesn't matter whether the player serving is affected by the hand going up or not. Not sure if this is in the "official rulebook", but it's the way I have always seen it handled during matches. If Serena's serve had gone in, she should've had to serve again too.

Did Justine lie about it? I couldn't tell, but by not admitting it whether or not the chair asked her about it is VERY poor sportsmanship. She should have said, "I had my hand up", then Serena serves a first serve again, and everything goes on. By not speaking up, whether or not she was asked, I think shows something about her as a competitor.

Regardless, Serena didn't lose the match because of that one point. She should have been able to accept it and move on.

Hurley
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:58 AM
I think many of you take things way too literally.

Serena saying Justine "lied" may have basically meant that Justine didn't confess to holding her hand up.

Then she knows the meaning of the word "lie" as much as she knows the meaning of "hypochondriac."

I would accept that if she also didn't use the term "fabricating." Fabricating is concocting a story. Justine didn't say a word.

That's where I'll stop. I hope we're in for a great final on Saturday and may the best girl win.

Greenout
Jun 6th, 2003, 03:20 AM
Too funny.

Justine did raise her hand up when Serena
was serving. I don't know about your live coverage;
but mine showed a hand go up. I've seen that
chair umpire many times during ATP matches
and I knew some controversial moment would
happen I've seen him ruin alot of matches by
giving certain players bad calls throughout the
match. He should've made Serena replay the point
by starting with a first serve again.

I don't think Justine cheated nor lied. Players don't
usually fight if bad calls go against their opponent.
Serena's a grand slam champ, number 1 player-
she should've just gone on and win more games.
Isn't that what she usually does? You or Serena
cannot blame that one point as the crucial moment
of the match. The crowd? They were arseholes!
What's new? It wasn't a racist thing you know! Have
you been to France? They don't care for non- French
speakers; especially Americans. In fact their very
envious of Americans. A majority French speaking
crowd acting like they did isn't surprising.

Haven't you heard people say ... "oh I love, France
if only there were no French people".

Venus Forever
Jun 6th, 2003, 03:23 AM
Some people need to buy a dictionnary and look at the word "lie".
I think some people need to look at the truth of the situation. ;)

Justine did not say anything, she withheld the truth, which qualifies as a lie.

Many words are interpreted in many different ways, and withholding the truth is one way to interpret "lie."

Have you never heard when a woman or man realizes their spouse has cheated on them, that they claimed they lied, with never even speaking about their mistress??

Lie has many meanings. ;)

TennisHack
Jun 6th, 2003, 03:29 AM
Justine put her hand up because she wanted to wait until the crowd finished booing Serena for calling her own lines. On the slow-motion replay, Justine put her hand up as she realized that Serena was tossing the ball. Serena's ball toss hand went up and Justine's hand went up at the same time.

Do a frame-by-frame if you don't believe me. But this really is a moot point.

Midnite Surfer
Jun 6th, 2003, 03:38 AM
Justine put her hand up because she wanted to wait until the crowd finished booing Serena for calling her own lines. On the slow-motion replay, Justine put her hand up as she realized that Serena was tossing the ball. Serena's ball toss hand went up and Justine's hand went up at the same time.

Do a frame-by-frame if you don't believe me. But this really is a moot point.

By "calling her own lines" you mean pointing out marks that were proven to be out in the replay? Isn't that what happens on clay. Plus Serena struck the ball which isn't considered stoppage of play. There are rules to tennis. You should learn them.

That really isn't the point. Serena should have been allowed to serve again. And the much grander point is that the French crowd is repugnant. Justine lied and now a fairly large percentage of you are supporting a lie. Serena still should have won the match, she had the momentum serving 30-love at 4-2 and she should have kept her focus no matter what kind if distraction Justine or the crowd willingly presented. But the fact of the matter is, Justine was dishonest in order to gain an advantage. That is reprehensible. I'm sorry if that sounds like "sour grapes". Once again Justine played a wonderful match up until that point. Congratulations on the win, congratulations to the french for having a francophone in the final. I hope it is worth it.

hollywood7172
Jun 6th, 2003, 03:45 AM
oh who CARES about serena-bigass-williams or justine-bonyass-henin-hardenne? i'm still PISSED my two faves went out in the 4th round, goddamit! :mad: :fiery:

disposablehero
Jun 6th, 2003, 03:54 AM
I thought Serena was invincible. Is all this chaos on the board based on the assumption that Serena lost a 3 set match because of one point in the middle of the first set?

Midnite Surfer
Jun 7th, 2003, 01:45 AM
oh who CARES about serena-bigass-williams or justine-bonyass-henin-hardenne? i'm still PISSED my two faves went out in the 4th round, goddamit! :mad: :fiery:

This post just cracked me up. For some reason it just seems to capture the essence of this board in the most succinct manner I have seen.