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View Full Version : So is Venus Still the REAL World #2?


King Lindsay
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:25 PM
Just to save somebody else the time of posting this thread, i would now like to hear arguments from her fans about why Venus Williams is still the world's second best player, even as she has exited from the French Open in the fourth round and fallen to #4 in the rankings.

Go.

irma
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:28 PM
she won antwerpen against kim :p

tennisIlove09
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:45 PM
Here's why: the only reason Kim's #2 and Justine's #3 is because Venus hasn't played. So, lack of play is the reason she's fallen, not her 4th RD exit in Paris.

ktwtennis
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:19 PM
Here's why: the only reason Kim's #2 and Justine's #3 is because Venus hasn't played. So, lack of play is the reason she's fallen, not her 4th RD exit in Paris.She's had this no-playing schedule for years now, and it didn't used to cause her to drop out of tournaments early, so this isn't a valid excuse...

Tarsius
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:21 PM
I thought we had the rankings to tell us how players are seeded based on PERFORMANCE. Are there "opinion" or "potential" points there that I dont know about?

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:23 PM
Yes, the way to solve World War III is to rehash stuff that you think is ridiculous. ;)

Crazy Canuck
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:23 PM
I'm not certain, but I have a feeling that the government had something to do with it.

c2
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:25 PM
She should be second best because Justine cheated today! :mad:

King Lindsay
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:25 PM
Yes, the way to solve World War III is to rehash stuff that you think is ridiculous. ;)

LOL. Hey man, I'm just saving Hinquit or Topshotta or some other equally profound person the trouble of having to create this thread! so let's hear it! Justine and Kim do not deserve their rankings! We all know it! Sing it from the hills!

ptkten
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:30 PM
I don't think Venus deserves the # 2 ranking, or the # 3 one for that matter, Kim and Justine have earned it. However, I do think that Venus is still the 2nd best player in the world. When Venus is healthy, and when she is playing on any other surface than clay, she handles Kim and Justine convincingly (i.e. Antwerp and the Australian).

croat123
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:30 PM
She should be second best because Justine cheated today! :mad:
she was 4rth before today's match started

GoChanda
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:30 PM
I think the winner between Kim and Justine tomorrow will be the real no.2! Venus is no.4 I think, but the year is not over yet!

c2
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:32 PM
Helllloooooooooo... Earth to croat ... the thread is a joke

treufreund
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:10 AM
it WAS serena WHO CHEATED. she admits to serving knowing that her opponent was not ready

and now SERENA is maligning JUJU by accusing her of lies and fabrication. not a classy way to lose.

oh and yes she 'forgot' to shake Jorge Diaz hand and then went back with her phony smile and did it minutes later... what made her think of that minutes later? she has played hundreds of matches and FORGETS to shake the umps hand even though her opponent did it???

WHATEVER!

Rollo
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:15 AM
I think the winner between Kim and Justine tomorrow will be the real no.2! Venus is no.4 I think, but the year is not over yet!

Nice post Go Chanda:)

Cybelle Darkholme
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:17 AM
it WAS serena WHO CHEATED. she admits to serving knowing that her opponent was not ready

and now SERENA is maligning JUJU by accusing her of lies and fabrication. not a classy way to lose.

oh and yes she 'forgot' to shake Jorge Diaz hand and then went back with her phony smile and did it minutes later... what made her think of that minutes later? she has played hundreds of matches and FORGETS to shake the umps hand even though her opponent did it???

WHATEVER!


Did justine accuse her of faking an injury yet? Shes known for that. For sure she's so classy. Whatever.

anyway venus is not number two and will be number four i think. if she wants to be higher she should play more and win. simple as that. anway im sure she doesn't care too much about her ranking otherwise she would have played.

F-R-E-A-K
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:20 AM
All i have to say is dont the RANKINGS tell whos whoon the tour????

tenn_ace
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:22 AM
Here's why: the only reason Kim's #2 and Justine's #3 is because Venus hasn't played. So, lack of play is the reason she's fallen, not her 4th RD exit in Paris.

obviously it's not Kims or Justine's fault that Venus can't play 2 tournaments in a row without getting injured, is it?

:rolleyes:

aussiefan83
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:28 AM
Kim and Justine have earnt their number 2 and 3 rankings respectively. They have had great years and a great tournament here.
But.... (yes theres always a but)

I believe the best way of deciding is by looking at their grand slam results and their head to heads in ALL tournaments.

Venus has played in 4 of the last 5 grand slam finals and 6 of the last 8.
Venus has a 3-1 win loss record over Kim in the last year, with Kims win coming via retirement (a win none the less).
Venus has beaten Justine in their last 7 matches, including 4 in the last 18 months.

Therefore, yes kim and justine have earnt their ranking by playing extremely well over the last year, but if you had to say who has been the best player out of the 3 over the last year (not taking into account the number of tournaments they have played) you would have to say that Venus has been the second best player still, second only to serena.

1jackson2001
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:30 AM
No no no, you have it all wrong! VENUS IS STILL THE REAL WORLD #1! In fact, she's never lost that ranking. She is actually the top player in the world. You heard it here first. ;)

hollywood7172
Jun 6th, 2003, 03:24 AM
lol...there ya go jackson. good one.

Peter M
Jun 6th, 2003, 03:39 AM
Here's why: the only reason Kim's #2 and Justine's #3 is because Venus hasn't played. So, lack of play is the reason she's fallen, not her 4th RD exit in Paris.


True, lack of play is her reason for falling in the ranks. Lack of play in the French Open QF, SF or F, for starters.

Freewoman33
Jun 6th, 2003, 03:48 AM
Venus will be getting a lot of bonus points in the coming months. I can't wait.

Flatstat
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:10 AM
Seeing as Serena/Kim/Justine are all averaging more points per tournament then Venus this year says it all :)

King Lindsay
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:13 AM
Kim and Justine have earnt their number 2 and 3 rankings respectively. They have had great years and a great tournament here.
But.... (yes theres always a but)

I believe the best way of deciding is by looking at their grand slam results and their head to heads in ALL tournaments.

Venus has played in 4 of the last 5 grand slam finals and 6 of the last 8.
Venus has a 3-1 win loss record over Kim in the last year, with Kims win coming via retirement (a win none the less).
Venus has beaten Justine in their last 7 matches, including 4 in the last 18 months.

Therefore, yes kim and justine have earnt their ranking by playing extremely well over the last year, but if you had to say who has been the best player out of the 3 over the last year (not taking into account the number of tournaments they have played) you would have to say that Venus has been the second best player still, second only to serena.

man, if you're talking about the last year, which is what decides the rankings, then why are you bringing up slam finals that happened more than a year ago, or matches that took place more than a year ago to make your case?

LeonHart
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:14 AM
it WAS serena WHO CHEATED. she admits to serving knowing that her opponent was not ready

and now SERENA is maligning JUJU by accusing her of lies and fabrication. not a classy way to lose.

oh and yes she 'forgot' to shake Jorge Diaz hand and then went back with her phony smile and did it minutes later... what made her think of that minutes later? she has played hundreds of matches and FORGETS to shake the umps hand even though her opponent did it???

WHATEVER!
It was the booing that reminded her ;).

Anyways, if Venus works on that erratic forehand, and it starts clicking again, then she can have her #2 spot back. Til then, we'll see how she does in Wimbledon.

King Lindsay
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:19 AM
Anyway, I started this thread as a bit of a joke, but I want to discuss it too.

After Kim took the #2 ranking a few weeks ago, many, many, many people were on her case about Venus still being the "true #2". The Kim fans pointed to the more recent results, say the last six months as evidence that Kim was in fact performing at a higher level than Venus as of late. This was dismissed by many. So I think that some fans failed to realize the trends here (perfectly understandible, I think most of us are guilty of being the last to see our favorites' weaknesses), but now it's staring them in the face. So it's actually a bit of a serious question. In light of Venus' early dismissal from the French (meaning that her past year at the Slams now reads F, F, F, 4th), and the stellar performances of Kim and Justine, how many of you can still say you believe Venus to be the true #2? Remember, after Saturday, one of the Belgian girls will be able to say they own a Grand Slam title, something Venus cannot say. And the other Belgian girl can still say she owns a more prestigious title than Williams. So .... have they earned it yet?

Andy_
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:55 PM
Here's why: the only reason Kim's #2 and Justine's #3 is because Venus hasn't played.

Yep... and when she has indeed played, she has lost to Shaughnessy (#23) and Zvonareva (#22)...

moby
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:02 PM
wait a minute, who's ranked 21 ;)

per4ever
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:23 PM
jeez Venus will be number four on the rankings and that's where she belongs now. If she wants to be higher in the rank, then she'll just have to play some more tournament and get some results.

I said it before.. a ranking is based on results, not on potential.

Whatzup
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:26 PM
pff rankings are rankings so if you are #4, the #1, #2 and #3 are better AT THAT MOMENT. So no exuses that Venus didn't play that much, she did that for years! Kim, Justine and Serena and maybe some other players are simply better AT THIS MOMENT! :D

XMan
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:25 PM
pff rankings are rankings so if you are #4, the #1, #2 and #3 are better AT THAT MOMENT. So no exuses that Venus didn't play that much, she did that for years! Kim, Justine and Serena and maybe some other players are simply better AT THIS MOMENT! :D

Exactly. If Venus want to show she is number two then she needs to play AND win more tournaments. But I doubt that she would be number two even if she would play more tournaments.

rikvanlooy
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:43 PM
True, lack of play is her reason for falling in the ranks. Lack of play in the French Open QF, SF or F, for starters.

Nice one ! :) :D

Fedcup
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:55 PM
Kim and Justine have earnt their number 2 and 3 rankings respectively. They have had great years and a great tournament here.
But.... (yes theres always a but)

I believe the best way of deciding is by looking at their grand slam results and their head to heads in ALL tournaments.

Venus has played in 4 of the last 5 grand slam finals and 6 of the last 8.
Venus has a 3-1 win loss record over Kim in the last year, with Kims win coming via retirement (a win none the less).
Venus has beaten Justine in their last 7 matches, including 4 in the last 18 months.

Therefore, yes kim and justine have earnt their ranking by playing extremely well over the last year, but if you had to say who has been the best player out of the 3 over the last year (not taking into account the number of tournaments they have played) you would have to say that Venus has been the second best player still, second only to serena.

Head to Heads??? Why???
If you would take the H-H between Kim and Justine you would think Justine is not even in top 50.

So I can't see that Venus would be a better player than Justine because she beat her the last couple of times.

Than we can say "Justine and Serena met each other 4 times the last 2 years and Justine won 3 out of 4, so Justine is a better player than Serena"

So H-H is just a part of it.
In my point of view Justine and Kim are better than Venus right now. Their level of play is higher than that of Venus and I strongly doubt if Venus is ever going to get her high level she once had before her little sis started to beat her

DA FOREHAND
Jun 6th, 2003, 03:53 PM
Venus is ranked #4, but she def. not the fourth best player on the tour. She is easily the 2nd best player on tour.

Rankings sometimes only tell part of the story, and can easily be inflated by trotting all over the globe for points.(Hingis/Dockic/Anna/Kim) Have all done this at one point.

A healthy Venus destroyed Kim this year. Little people rejoice you have three more days left in the clay court season.

Diya
Jun 6th, 2003, 03:57 PM
I am soooooo sick of people saying that "So and so player is the REAL # 2 player in the world " :rolleyes: Kim is the *most* deserving player player for the # 2 spot ! :worship:

Glenn
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:11 PM
Many players are better than Venus at the moment.

DA FOREHAND
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:11 PM
Who said she wasn't? I think you have a comprehension problem. Is English not your first language?

Kim deserves to be "ranked" number two, she's stayed healthy enough to have played consistantly well for 22 tournaments in the last year.

c2
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:22 PM
:rolleyes: at da forehand ... HELLLLOOOOOO... . THE THREAD IS A JOKE, PEOPLE

tennisIlove09
Jun 6th, 2003, 09:23 PM
I think most people actually believe that the rankings show who the better players are.

If they did that, Serena and Venus would be #1, #2 this year without question.

Who's the "true" #2? In terms of player, Venus. In terms of ranking points Kim.

As someone previously mentioned, Venus is ranked #4, but she isn't the 4th best player in the world...she's the 2nd

o0O0o
Jun 6th, 2003, 09:42 PM
LOL Kim would have crushed Venus into bits if they played at the French Open. Venus wasn't even good enough to reach Kim.

Like I've said before, the Antwerp match was Venus' single best performance in years, and I wouldn't read into it at all. Like Hingis defeating Venus 6-1 6-1...it's fun to brag about but means nothing in the long term, especially since Venus won their next two matches.