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View Full Version : Justine's win left a bad taste in my mouth


moon
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:11 PM
I was pretty ambivalent about the match between Justine and Serena. It would have been nice to see Serena continue her run, but Justine is a hard worker, so I wouldn't have been disappointed if she had won.

then I saw the match today. The way those people treated Serena was just wrong, and completely unfair. If the situation were reversed and Justine had questioned those same calls, that crowd would not have gone as insane as they did today. They were out for blood.

Serena will probably bounce back by Wimby, but actions like those idiots in France take most of the joy out of tennis for me. It just sucks to me when a crowd can treat a human being like that for no reason at all. Would have been nice if Justine could have won that match without all the human interference. and I thought Indian Wells was bad. :sad:

o0O0o
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:13 PM
For the love of God stop crying! Williams fans have their heads clouded like I've never seen before! Are you ready for the facts?

They booed Serena twice:

1) During the game when she questioned the calls

2) After she breezed by Justine at the net, barely giving a handshake.

That is it. The crowd was hardly that bad. Get over it.

Mrs. Peel
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:14 PM
I have this match taped at home...I'm not sure if I will even watch it..

The fact that Serena was reduced to tears by a ravenous crowd sours the efforts of both of these ladies...tennis matches shouldn't come to this. :mad: :fiery:

moon
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:24 PM
For the love of God stop crying! Williams fans have their heads clouded like I've never seen before! Are you ready for the facts?

They booed Serena twice:

1) During the game when she questioned the calls

2) After she breezed by Justine at the net, barely giving a handshake.

That is it. The crowd was hardly that bad. Get over it.

I wouldn't expect an idiot such as yourself to know anything about common decency, but there is was none today during the 3rd set for Serena. But I wouldn't expect people like you to understand that.

Bella
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:35 PM
Mrs. Peel, now that it has been described so terribly, you might not be so disturbed as it is bound to be less than you have imagined. The tennis was pretty good at times. It wasn't Nadia and Jen, but it had its moments.

Mrs. Peel
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:45 PM
Mrs. Peel, now that it has been described so terribly, you might not be so disturbed as it is bound to be less than you have imagined. The tennis was pretty good at times. It wasn't Nadia and Jen, but it had its moments.


Thanks for your concern darling...but I'm just not interested anymore :kiss:


OoOoO or whatever he calls himself knowing common decency? That is laughable...coming from someone whose sparkling repartee around here makes him as appealing as a bleeding hemorroid!

Jakeev
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:48 PM
Your fighting a losing battle when it come to the French crowds people........

Crazy Canuck
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:58 PM
I imagine that you showed similar sympathy when this happened to Hingis :)

ys
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:58 PM
Justine's win left a bad taste in my mouth

What exactly were you doing while watching tennis?

starr
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:00 AM
Yeah... a bad taste. It's called the taste of defeat. The bitter taste of crow.

Sam L
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:02 AM
Exactly, I'm just going to assume that anyone who complains about the crowd started watching tennis post-1999.

Crazy Canuck
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:03 AM
Exactly, I'm just going to assume that anyone who complains about the crowd started watching tennis post-1999.
Nah. Many of the people bitching on and on here would just like us to forget the 1600 times that they made fun of Hingis for her 1999 bit.

ayanate
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:28 AM
You guys are conveniently confusing the two situations;

1. Did Serena cross over the net to check a line?
2. Did Serena try to stop her opponent's momentum by taking a lengthy toilet break(she was not injured)?
3. Did Serena serve underhand to throw off her opponent?

What exactly did Serena do that made the crowd root viciously against her instead of just rooting for Justine which is understandable?

Tarsius
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:33 AM
Have you guys ever been to a basketball match? How about a soccer match?

I guess tennis IS a country club sport.

whorehand
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:41 AM
Have you guys ever been to a basketball match? How about a soccer match?

I guess tennis IS a country club sport.

I don't suppose you've noticed that there isn't 10 or so other team mates out on a tennis court with you to suffer the brunt of a viscious crowd.

The French crowd were out of order, its as simple as that. I'm not a William's fan at all, but that was a disgrace.

Tarsius
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:46 AM
So basically what you're saying is that its OK for the crowd to act like that as long as the players have shoulders to cry on on the court?

I feel sorry for basketball and soccer players then.

1jackson2001
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:53 AM
Actually her win left a good taste in my mouth. I was munching on brownies then. :)

Celeste
Jun 6th, 2003, 12:58 AM
Well, I did not see the match, so I have to say that upfront. From what I read, it seems like the French crowd was awful. Perhaps Martina Hingis earned that ire in the '99 final (perhaps), but I recall the French crowd booing Arantxa at least one year when she was like a 2 or 3 time champion at that point, and European as well. I don't know what the crowd is up to, but I think any girl ranked 200 or 1 deserves enough respect to at least not be booed. If they want the other girl to win, ok, but I cannot understand booing and hissing at any player, any player at all, unless she gave the bird to the crowd or something, which Serena obviously did not do. Serena is their reigning champion and was so happy there last year when it was her first slam in like 2 and a half years.

Again, no one who plays on the circuit deserves what Serena got today, even if she was a 200 in the world qualifier. While I think they overreacted to Hingis in the '99 final, as I said above, the French crowd has been terrible to Arantxa, and that was her big tournament that she won a lot, and NO ONE played with more heart that Arantxa. I cannot explain it, but Serena got treated like shit today, but she wasn't the first, and I am sure, won't be the last.

Lisbeth
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:01 AM
Have you guys ever been to a basketball match? How about a soccer match?

I guess tennis IS a country club sport.

Or any code of football, cricket, water polo ... well said! And it's not just the French, crowds can behave atrociously in any country (ask the Brits or NZers about Aussie crowds, or Aussie swimmers about Americans who just walked out to get snacks or go home actually during medal ceremonies in Atlanta if the "wrong" anthem was playing.)

EDIT: Read some other stuff after I posted this and think I should add that this crowd did sound pretty bad - I'm not condoning them ir saying that every other crowd is as bad. But it's still part of the sport and something players just have to deal with.

Doc
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:03 AM
I was watching the match, and the crowd were nowhere near as vicious as they were to Martina Hingis. They clapped Serenas good shots. But they were cheering for Justine. You are going to get partisan crowds. That is the way things are in major sport. Players have to live with that.

The surprise is not that the crowd was solidly for Francophone Justine, but that in the US the crowds tend not to root for the Williamses.

Terri77
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:08 AM
I haven't noticed a trend of US crowds not rooting for the Williams. Maybe a few instances.

baleineau
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:19 AM
arantxa was booed for moonballing against Habsudova in 1996 QF. It worked for her, but come the final, the crowd did not forgive her :rolleyes: jesus, she played a blinder and played her part in a terrific, dramatic tussle with the "Favourite" Steffi, losing 10-8 in the third and still got booed. No wonder she broke down in tears.

i think it's very unsportsmanlike for Justine to describe the crowd as wonderful - i recall her moaning about the boisterous crowd during a Fed Cup tie in Spain during a close match with Conchita in 2001.

justine is a moaning minnie. you'd think she'd more humble after the embarassment of the 2001 RG choke, the 2002 choke against Venus, and the 2002 tanking against Kapros.

GO KIM, and GO SERENA next time you play Justine. She needs one of them 6-0 6-0 whippings.

Rtael
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:33 AM
arantxa was booed for moonballing against Habsudova in 1996 QF. It worked for her, but come the final, the crowd did not forgive her :rolleyes: jesus, she played a blinder and played her part in a terrific, dramatic tussle with the "Favourite" Steffi, losing 10-8 in the third and still got booed. No wonder she broke down in tears.

i think it's very unsportsmanlike for Justine to describe the crowd as wonderful - i recall her moaning about the boisterous crowd during a Fed Cup tie in Spain during a close match with Conchita in 2001.

justine is a moaning minnie. you'd think she'd more humble after the embarassment of the 2001 RG choke, the 2002 choke against Venus, and the 2002 tanking against Kapros.

GO KIM, and GO SERENA next time you play Justine. She needs one of them 6-0 6-0 whippings.

I'd expect more from you.....

First of all Henin didn't tank that match against Kapros. She was sick, got it? Are you just fucking stupid? apparently so.
And if she chokes so what? What does that have to do with anything? And she never said the crowd was wonderful...where did she say that? She said herself that the crowd was a bit much at time! Geeze! Get some fucking common sense

switz
Jun 6th, 2003, 01:52 AM
i was in the crowd and it was pretty awful, although i was not involved in the emotion because i did not care who won. i certainly don't think serena was playing miss innoncent until the end of the match, as the number of times she just stared at justine after winning a point in an attempt to intimidate certainly brought henin a few more supporters.

this is not limited to the french crowds though. surely some of you remember the way the new york crowd booed the two time defending champion pat rafter when retired in his first round match against pioline with a stuffed shoulder simply because they wanted to see more tennis and he was ruining it for them. at least the french were just caught up in the emotional couldron which is a sporting contest.

starr
Jun 6th, 2003, 02:30 AM
The New York night crowds and the French Open crowds are definitely get much more involved than other crowds. When Connors played at night... whew. The crowds were rough on his opponents.

But for pure viciousness, I'd say the French crowd takes the prize. I remember them booing Leconte when he failed to win the final that year. Here they had a French serve and volleyer who wasn't given a ghost of a chance reach the final and they booed him roundly.

And where were all these people bemoaning the nastiness of the French crowd in 99?

darren cahill
Jun 6th, 2003, 03:08 AM
i dont know, but maybe i'm missing something but i didnt think the crowd was terrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrible....i've seen worse...the hingis situation was way more volitale and the 1992 Steffi/Monica 3rd set where the fans were chanting Steffis name so loudly you could barely hear anything else was certainly more noticeable but i think its part of the game (unfortunately) but i dont see the reason to be so hard on Justine...she didnt question or challenge Serena for questioning the calls...its not HER fault the crowd was so vocal...i am no fan of Justines mind you but i'm not sure why justine is getting all the grief...like someone else said, she did admit they were a 'bit much' but of course if they are rooting for you, its probably easier to deal with it..every dominant champ has to deal with people being tired of you and wanting the upset...this is serenas turn...believe me, there will come a time where she'll be the fave again just like it happened to steffi, navaratilova etc.

seeing_red
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:02 AM
Yeah, the french crowd during RG 99 between Graf and Hingis was more terrible than this.

TennisHack
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:05 AM
I just finished watching the match, and it wasn't nearly as bad as described here. It was most definitely not the entire crowd vs Serena -- she had her own supporters who cheered Justine's errors and double faults -- and in the end, I didn't see anything to cry about. I believe whoever said that Serena was more upset because she let the crowd get to her than actually losing the match. I've never seen her come unravelled so fast.

tenn_ace
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:11 AM
I just finished watching the match, and it wasn't nearly as bad as described here. It was most definitely not the entire crowd vs Serena -- she had her own supporters who cheered Justine's errors and double faults -- and in the end, I didn't see anything to cry about. I believe whoever said that Serena was more upset because she let the crowd get to her than actually losing the match. I've never seen her come unravelled so fast.

ditto.. I was about to post the same... I'm glad I was not the only one who saw that.

Some Williams fans are the worst sore losers and this RG just confirmed it (after both Williams losses) :o But that was not a news flash to me :rolleyes:

mishar
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:24 AM
I was rooting for Justine but I felt the same way as moon. The French crowd has done this many times before, to Arantxa, to Hingis, and I've thought it was disgusting every time, I also thought it was awful that night at the USOpen when they booed Rafter.
Tennis is not basketball or hockey and I'm glad it isn't. Fans may shout obscenities at basketball players, and try to distract them when they attempt free throws, that's the etiquette of the sport, but I don't think it should be the etiquette of tennis.
I dislike the mob mentality that makes people so vicious.

TennisHack
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:44 AM
I dislike the mob mentality that makes people so vicious.

*thinks about today's deluge on the board*

That's the understatement of the year.

seeing_red
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:45 AM
Hmmm

selesfan
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:48 AM
I imagine that you showed similar sympathy when this happened to Hingis :)

I was in tears when it happened to Hingis and I wasn't even a fan of hers so I made sure not to watch the tape of this match. ;)

hollywood7172
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:49 AM
oh who CARES about serena-bigass-williams or justine-bonyass-henin-hardenne? i'm still PISSED my two faves went out in the 4th round, goddamit! :mad: :fiery:

Flatstat
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:50 AM
Everyone knows what the French crowd are like. Can't stand the heat get out of the Kitchen.

seeing_red
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:52 AM
Well, a crowds a crowd...

Randy H
Jun 6th, 2003, 04:58 AM
It's not just this one incident that tore down Serena, it is the fact that so many times in her career she has been jeered and booed when it has not been deserved.

I'm not about to say I am Serena's biggest fan because I'm not, but I really felt bad for her today -Maybe the booing wasn't as bad as several incidents previous at this event but is that any reason to excuse it? If they wanted Justine to win, then that's fine, I can see why most would want to see Justine win because she is the underdog, and most people like to see the underdog win, especially against someone who has been so dominant at the slams like Serena the past year. But having said that, their behaviour was not the right way to achieve that, and I think that if anything, it has tainted Justine's great victory to some extent, which I think is disappointing because she played a good match and showed a lot of nerve to hang on when the pressure mounted.

Becool
Jun 6th, 2003, 05:12 AM
Why are the ppl comparing the crowd vs Hingis in 99 and the crowd now vs Serena? Of course Hingis got the worst treatment! That's obvious, but because she definitely deserved..

Serena, IMO, did nothing to deserve it. It was painful to watch that match, they trying to take out her focus, clapping double faults, and unforced errors..

I was depply disappointed...

Gandalf
Jun 6th, 2003, 08:16 AM
They booed Pierce in '95, '96 and '99, Arantxa in '96, Hingis in '99...so it's nothing new. They should put a stop to it, but I think the RG organizers find it part of the 'flavour' of the tournament.

bis2806
Jun 6th, 2003, 08:25 AM
the french crowds are just too pathetic..... in my opinion serena should've won that match.... seriously...

ksgyh
Jun 6th, 2003, 08:36 AM
The crowd was partisan, and perhaps extremely so, but it is the French Open, and Belgium is oh-so-close to Paris. Justine is going to have her many supporters out there. I do agree with Serena when she said it wasn't the French vs US situation. However, when Serena said, "It was tough...the story of my life," I did not agree. Yes, she has had it tough, but she has already become so strong b/c of it. She is able to take those challenges, so to reduce herself to tears and throw a pity-party for losing in the semis of the French Open, after completing her "Serena Slam," b/c 1) she wasn't having her best day (granted, on her best day, no one can beat her, but she can't play every day at her best, or else it wouldn't be called "best" anymore), 2)the crowd was very vocal (even if undeserved, Serena is usually able to tune this stuff out) and 3) Justine was hanging in there and battling it out, all that doesn't make 100% complete sense to me. Was she crying b/c she felt racial discrimination? (If that is her argument, I will be quite upset with her, given the fact France has beloved tennis greats such as Yannick Noah hailing from their country.) Was she crying b/c she had her pride and Grand Slam streak broken? I don't know. I do feel sad for her, but come on, there are so many others in this world that have had it worse, that have had it "tough...the story of their lives" as well. I cannot say I feel as if poor Serena is the most unfortunate little girl in this world. How about poor Justine, whose mother died at such a young age, who has rifted relations to her father? We could all create sad sappy documentaries about the tough lives of these tennis players, but can't we focus on the positive?

Serena is still the undisputed #1. So she had a subpar day. That happens.
Justine is still a great clay court player, who takes full advantage of every inch and every ounce of her being.
The match wasn't the best ever, but it was Roland Garros semifinal-worthy, that is for sure.
Can't we just all be grateful?

Sorry for going on this long...

per4ever
Jun 6th, 2003, 09:04 AM
nice post ksgyh

Mags
Jun 6th, 2003, 11:19 AM
It's not just this one incident that tore down Serena, it is the fact that so many times in her career she has been jeered and booed when it has not been deserved.

I'm not about to say I am Serena's biggest fan because I'm not, but I really felt bad for her today -Maybe the booing wasn't as bad as several incidents previous at this event but is that any reason to excuse it? If they wanted Justine to win, then that's fine, I can see why most would want to see Justine win because she is the underdog, and most people like to see the underdog win, especially against someone who has been so dominant at the slams like Serena the past year. But having said that, their behaviour was not the right way to achieve that, and I think that if anything, it has tainted Justine's great victory to some extent, which I think is disappointing because she played a good match and showed a lot of nerve to hang on when the pressure mounted.

Agree with you Randy H

Those members of the crowd who cheered errors by either player disrespected both players :fiery:.

Justine did not need the crowd cheering any errors Serena made to help her win and visa versa. The fact that we watched a match between two players who gave it their all in trying to reach the final is being sadly overshadowed by the behaviour of some members of the crowd.:(

moon
Jun 6th, 2003, 10:54 PM
I agree with Randy also, which was what I said in my initial post. I was neutral at the beginning of the match. Then it got ugly, and it was no longer an enjoyable situation. It got very nasty, and it was completely uncalled for. :(
IMO to compare this situation with Hingis is wrong. Hingis acted like a spoiled match during her match with Steffi. What exactly did Serena do?

As for all of you, with your automatic "Williams fans sour grapes" reply. It's a shame that you're so jaded that you can't treat anyone as an individual and that you feel they have to be lumped in with a group of faceless people that you seem to have some sort of irrational hostility towards.