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switz
Apr 18th, 2003, 03:00 PM
i don't know how this board treats issues like asking if people are gay, but i am going to presume that if it is put in a non-dircriminatory way there is nothing wrong with it.

i sometimes wonder how many people on this board are actually gay, because there seems to be a large percentage. i am more interested, however, in knowing what is the average age different people came out in relation to the country/society they lived in. i am not gay, but i wonder about this because it seems like there are lot of young people who are opening gay, but when i went to school i don't think anybody in my entire school was openly a homosexual, and i never really thought about this fact until i came onto this board. of course there were people who were suspected of being gay (sorry if that sounds bad) but no one ever officially said they were or did anything specifically which would confirm that they were. i am sure this had a lot do with fact that it was all male private school with a strong sporting culture etc, but it is not like this was twenty years ago or anything, in fact it was less than two years ago that i was at school. i hope this thread doesn't offend people, and i am not trying to make out that being gay changes who you are as a person or that is defines who you are, but i just would like to get some impression of how attitudes differ across the vast cultural mosaic which is our world.

Rtael
Apr 18th, 2003, 03:05 PM
Hmm...well I'm in USA, and open about it at school, and it's not a big problem....there are always certain people...but there always will be. You'd think I'd have it pretty bad, living in the deep south (New Orleans) where things like this are treated alot worse, however I go to the #1 academic high school in the state and like #2 in the country. So it's not as bad as other places. Anything else you wanna know? lol =P

DutchieGirl
Apr 18th, 2003, 03:06 PM
"Coming out" is kinda hard to define. I mean it's a process usually - you don't just go around to everyone and say "Hi, I'm gay". You might tell a friend, and then your family, and then some other friends, but not all at once. For me it;s been a gradual thing. But as I didn't really discover my sexuality until I left high school - I wasn't out during high school. (If I had known I was gay during high school there is NO WAY I would have been openly out either). I'm still not fully out at the moment. Everyone on the board knows, but in real life, not everyone knows. My friends do, and I did tell my Dad - but he doesn't believe it. I'm still cautious about telling some people.

switz
Apr 18th, 2003, 03:15 PM
i just decided that i don't know why i posted this thread. i think i had one too many bears watching the rugby tonight. i think i could say something offense which i don't mean so i might just let this thread think into oblivion. at least until i am sober :)

Helen Lawson
Apr 18th, 2003, 03:15 PM
Ted Casablanca has sex with men behind Neely's back but claims to be straight. Neely also claims he is straight and that she is the dame who can prove it! But the fact remains, Ted Casablanca does have sex with me. In or out?

~ The Leopard ~
Apr 18th, 2003, 03:27 PM
What's offensive about it? Relax, switz. You haven't said anything homophobic.

The only problem is that there have been numerous threads on this before (I see you only joined recently).

--joui who is not gay but all the same...

Dava
Apr 18th, 2003, 03:37 PM
People my age in the late teens like to experiement like DeuceDiva said, theres a lot of Bi-Sexuality going on, but most people end up being straight.

A example of a famous person is Pierce Brosnan who thought he was gay in his teens but he is not now.

And no Im not gay.

Vincent
Apr 18th, 2003, 03:48 PM
i have an important question.
Can gay be changed?i mean like Pierce Brosnan, he thought he was gay, what made him become straight? :confused:

Dava
Apr 18th, 2003, 03:53 PM
Two females usually, I have two friends who have both been involved in lesbain relationships.

Helen Lawson
Apr 18th, 2003, 03:57 PM
Well, Neely has claimed that she is the "dame" who can make people straight. So far, Ted Casablanca is still sleeping with men, so I think she must admit failure on this. Though, once, Neely did catch Ted messing around with a "broad" in her pool, so maybe it is right to say that you, well, at least Neely, can turn someone gay into someone bi-sexual.

G-Ha
Apr 18th, 2003, 04:19 PM
switz, I didn't find your post offensive at all. I think it's great that you, as a straight person, are interested enough in the topic of homosexuality and coming out to create a thread about it (even if you weren't 100% sober at the time ;)).

When I was in high school (which was a few years back now), no one was "out". I have seen and heard though that in the last couple of years that that's starting to change as people are coming out at earlier ages.

BTW, homosexuality is not a "decision" one makes. One doesn't just wake up one day and "decide" to be gay. Sure, one can make the "decision" whether or not to act out on his/her homosexual feelings, but the feelings themselves are there regardless of choice.

And some do find it "trendy" to experiment or be open to same-sex encounters, but this trend is relegated strictly to females. Male on male action is definitely not viewed this way.

Mattographer
Apr 18th, 2003, 05:01 PM
i have an important question.
Can gay be changed?i mean like Pierce Brosnan, he thought he was gay, what made him become straight? :confused:
No... I assumed Pierce Brosnan was sexual confusion, that's all.

Big Fat Pink Elephant
Apr 18th, 2003, 05:02 PM
congrats with your 9000th post matthew ;) yes i'm slow, please forgive me;)

Mattographer
Apr 18th, 2003, 05:06 PM
9.000?! :eek: OMG!! Thanks, Marri!! :D

Messenger
Apr 18th, 2003, 06:00 PM
I did tell my Dad - but he doesn't believe it.

That's funny, have you had boyfriends in the past? That might be it. It sounds like he didn't give you a hard time though so that's good.

Messenger
Apr 18th, 2003, 06:01 PM
Congrats AlexSyd

:)

Car Key Boi
Apr 18th, 2003, 06:12 PM
I'm pretty.

griffin
Apr 18th, 2003, 06:32 PM
the only thing that i wonder about, is how many people who say they are gay....have truly made that life decision.

fwiw, I don't see it as having made a decision so much as having come to an understanding of who I am. Some people know, some people aren't so sure and it takes awhile, some people change their minds :)

switz, I don't find your question offensive at all (although I am curious about those "bears" you had ;) ). I live in the US and came out at 19. That was awhile ago (I'm 35), and I think if I were a teenager now, I'd figure it out sooner. It's just so much more a part of our consciousness than it was even 15 years ago, and so much less of a taboo (which may be hard for people to believe if they're in a less friendly place, but it's true)

G-ha, I know guys who have done "experiments" - and guys who've been experimented on. It may not be as common, or as acceptable, but it does happen.

Hurley
Apr 18th, 2003, 06:44 PM
I think I can answer that...it can't be changed. Me being gay isn't something I chose, it was just always there. If it could be fought off, I would have fought it off, because I tried to (as I'm sure a lot of people have).

No one would choose to be persecuted like we are, so if it was easy to change or ignore, most gay people would do so. Because it'd be a lot easier to be straight but much less fun. *cough* :)

decemberlove
Apr 18th, 2003, 06:46 PM
there was a lot of experimenting going on when i was in high school... but it was only among the girls. there were a few girls who were openly bi... everybody just shrugged it off.. but not one guy who was. that was a big no-no

griffin
Apr 18th, 2003, 06:54 PM
Not to sound Clintonesque, DD, but how do you define "change"? :D

I think how and how well you understand and accept your sexuality can change over time, I don't think your actual sexuality does. I think without realizing it, we often try to fit who we are into predefined roles/definitions. "I feel attracted to X, therefor I'm Y, and being Y means..." Sometimes we find those boxes don't fit after all. There's also the tendency to identify as being at one extreme or the other, when in who you're attracted to is quite so clear cut and limited.

Not sure if that made sense (works in my head, but that's not saying much).

G-Ha
Apr 18th, 2003, 07:02 PM
griffin, I didn't mean to suggest that no one experiments...it happens all the time. What I meant was that girls openly experimenting is much more acceptable, while guys openly experimenting is not. Plenty of guys experiment, and some go on to identify as gay and some don't. But two men together is still not viewed as "cool" or "trendy" like it often is for two women together.

And I agree completely with Hurley as far as being gay cannot be changed. Homosexuality was listed as a mental disorder according to psychiatric professionals until as recently as 1973. Up to that point, psychiatrists would attempt to treat the "illness" with behavior modification techniques in an effort to change someone from gay to straight. Such techniques failed miserably. However, this hasn't stopped some from continuing to attempt to change gays/lesbians (most notably, some Christian organizations still attempt to "convert" homosexuals through techniques that were proven ineffective long ago).

G-Ha
Apr 18th, 2003, 07:34 PM
Yes, DeuceDiva...exactly!

Some groups still try to cure homosexuals despite 30 years of psychiatirc literature/research that states it is not an illness and cannot be "cured". Some of the methods used by these organizations are quite disturbing. For instance, one technique that is still used is to attach electrodes on various parts of a gay guy's body and show him photos/videos of naked men or men engaged in sex acts and then simultaneously deliver a shock. In fact, MTV had a special not too long ago about gay teens, in which a young Mormon boy recently uderwent such treatment...he even had the scars on his chest to prove it! It's really sad...

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Apr 19th, 2003, 12:41 AM
Your sexual orientation is like your handwriting.

For example - left handed and right handed people.

The minority is left handed (I'm gay AND a lefty). Sure, we can write with our right hand....but does it feel natural? Nope.

Same with ampidextourous(sp?) people that use both hands the same. That is like being bi-sexual.

In other words, you can't change who you are, you can only act like it ;)

Like if you are a lefty and use your right hand to write, your writing would be messy and cluttered

If you are gay but lived straight, your life would be messy and cluttered ;)



by the way - I came out to my mom when I was 12. I actually had my first "awareness" that I was gay when I was 4. I wasn't actually like, "Oh, I'm gay" but the inclination to be attracted to men - like crushes. And no, I have never been molested, nor have I had any of those "childhood experiments" that everyone seems to go through.

I'm just secure in who I am and not afraid to say it.

Kanji
Apr 19th, 2003, 01:21 AM
I think I can answer that...it can't be changed. Me being gay isn't something I chose, it was just always there. If it could be fought off, I would have fought it off, because I tried to (as I'm sure a lot of people have).

No one would choose to be persecuted like we are, so if it was easy to change or ignore, most gay people would do so. Because it'd be a lot easier to be straight but much less fun. *cough* :)
My thoughts exactly!

Kanji
Apr 19th, 2003, 01:31 AM
Your sexual orientation is like your handwriting.

For example - left handed and right handed people.

The minority is left handed (I'm gay AND a lefty). Sure, we can write with our right hand....but does it feel natural? Nope.

Same with ampidextourous(sp?) people that use both hands the same. That is like being bi-sexual.

In other words, you can't change who you are, you can only act like it ;)

Like if you are a lefty and use your right hand to write, your writing would be messy and cluttered

If you are gay but lived straight, your life would be messy and cluttered ;)



by the way - I came out to my mom when I was 12. I actually had my first "awareness" that I was gay when I was 4. I wasn't actually like, "Oh, I'm gay" but the inclination to be attracted to men - like crushes. And no, I have never been molested, nor have I had any of those "childhood experiments" that everyone seems to go through.

I'm just secure in who I am and not afraid to say it.
Really interresting metaphor, I like it...

For myself, I was really shy and unpopular in my teenage years so I didn't experience much girls (and absolutely no guys, of course). I had doubts about my sexuality but I have been sure I was gay the day I started dating guys... :hearts:

Sam L
Apr 19th, 2003, 01:32 AM
I'm mostly gay but I still like a few girls.

Mattographer
Apr 19th, 2003, 04:34 AM
Your sexual orientation is like your handwriting.

For example - left handed and right handed people.

The minority is left handed (I'm gay AND a lefty). Sure, we can write with our right hand....but does it feel natural? Nope.

Same with ampidextourous(sp?) people that use both hands the same. That is like being bi-sexual.

In other words, you can't change who you are, you can only act like it ;)

Like if you are a lefty and use your right hand to write, your writing would be messy and cluttered

If you are gay but lived straight, your life would be messy and cluttered ;)
WOW!! What an interesting metaphor!! I also like it!! ;)

Richie77
Apr 19th, 2003, 06:14 AM
I like that metaphor too, Josh :) It makes perfect sense...you're either gay, straight, or bi-sexual. It's not something that can be changed. And if it can't be changed, then it's what you're supposed to be :)

Re: the "cured homosexuals:" I don't believe there can be such a thing. Those people were either
1. not gay in the first place, and were just acting out on sexual confusion
2. bi-sexual with more of an attraction for the opposite gender, or
3. are really, really repressing their homosexuality.

DutchieGirl
Apr 19th, 2003, 06:31 AM
That's funny, have you had boyfriends in the past? That might be it. It sounds like he didn't give you a hard time though so that's good.

I had two boyfs in high school - but neither were very serious! Nothing more than hand holding stuff. I just really wasn't that interested!

Then I've had a net relationship with a guy. I did meet him twice, but by then I was already saying I was bi (he knew about it). But when it didn't work with him, I realised that I really don't think about guys in the same way I do girls. Don't get me wrong, I still find some guys very attractive, and IF the right guy and opportunity came along, I'm not saying I wouldn't be with a guy, but I much prefer women.

Actually, I told my Dad that I'm bi and he didn't believe me, but no, he didn't give me a hard time about it. But I think it's because I didn't bring a girl home or something yet. I still don't think he'd react well if I do bring a girl home. He still makes bad comments when he sees stuff about gay people. The other day there was a performance of TaTu on MMTV and they kissed and he made some smart ass remark! :rolleyes:

DutchieGirl
Apr 19th, 2003, 06:34 AM
I think I can answer that...it can't be changed. Me being gay isn't something I chose, it was just always there. If it could be fought off, I would have fought it off, because I tried to (as I'm sure a lot of people have).

No one would choose to be persecuted like we are, so if it was easy to change or ignore, most gay people would do so. Because it'd be a lot easier to be straight but much less fun. *cough* :)

I find it strange that you say that. I never had any feeling of "OMG I like girls, I don't want to like girls". For me it was just a gradual realisation, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest that I like girls! I wouldn't really want to chance it either! But of course I don't want to be persecuted.

DutchieGirl
Apr 19th, 2003, 06:42 AM
Your sexual orientation is like your handwriting.

For example - left handed and right handed people.

The minority is left handed (I'm gay AND a lefty). Sure, we can write with our right hand....but does it feel natural? Nope.

Same with ampidextourous(sp?) people that use both hands the same. That is like being bi-sexual.

In other words, you can't change who you are, you can only act like it ;)

Like if you are a lefty and use your right hand to write, your writing would be messy and cluttered

If you are gay but lived straight, your life would be messy and cluttered ;)



by the way - I came out to my mom when I was 12. I actually had my first "awareness" that I was gay when I was 4. I wasn't actually like, "Oh, I'm gay" but the inclination to be attracted to men - like crushes. And no, I have never been molested, nor have I had any of those "childhood experiments" that everyone seems to go through.

I'm just secure in who I am and not afraid to say it.

lol see, it was just meant to be! ;) I'm a lefy and gay too! ;)

DutchieGirl
Apr 19th, 2003, 06:47 AM
Not to sound Clintonesque, DD, but how do you define "change"? :D

I think how and how well you understand and accept your sexuality can change over time, I don't think your actual sexuality does. I think without realizing it, we often try to fit who we are into predefined roles/definitions. "I feel attracted to X, therefor I'm Y, and being Y means..." Sometimes we find those boxes don't fit after all. There's also the tendency to identify as being at one extreme or the other, when in who you're attracted to is quite so clear cut and limited.

Not sure if that made sense (works in my head, but that's not saying much).
It makes sense! It's hard to define sexuality in three different "boxes" ~~> straight, bi or gay. There are lots of "inbetweens" too! I mean I like mainly women, but I sitll like some guys too. I say I'm gay though because it's a whole lot easier than saying "I like women mainly, but I also like guys occasionally" and then people want further explanation. It's just easlier to say I'm "gay" or "lesbian". But people do want nice neat categories for everything and it's often not like that. Plus at different stages of our lives we may feel differently! ;)

moby
Apr 19th, 2003, 09:27 AM
Your sexual orientation is like your handwriting.

For example - left handed and right handed people.

The minority is left handed (I'm gay AND a lefty). Sure, we can write with our right hand....but does it feel natural? Nope.

Same with ampidextourous(sp?) people that use both hands the same. That is like being bi-sexual.

In other words, you can't change who you are, you can only act like it ;)

Like if you are a lefty and use your right hand to write, your writing would be messy and cluttered

If you are gay but lived straight, your life would be messy and cluttered ;)



by the way - I came out to my mom when I was 12. I actually had my first "awareness" that I was gay when I was 4. I wasn't actually like, "Oh, I'm gay" but the inclination to be attracted to men - like crushes. And no, I have never been molested, nor have I had any of those "childhood experiments" that everyone seems to go through.

I'm just secure in who I am and not afraid to say it.



I disagree with the metaphor unfortunately
I was born a left hander but change to right handed
Now my left hand handwriting is messy and cluttered ;)

martinafan
Apr 19th, 2003, 09:34 AM
like many people have said so far, coming out is definitely a process, and u don't just wake up one day and come out to everyone...you start with one or two, then slowly tell more and more people.

I'm 19 and from Sydney, and within the past 5 months, i went from telling one uni friend (5 months ago), but now about 25 of my friends from school and tennis would know that I am gay, and quite a few of my relatives (my parents, sister, 2 uncles and my grandmother) all know that I am gay.

It takes a while but slowly you gain more and more confidence in telling people, and a lot of people suprise you with their reactions ;) lol

Jakeev
Apr 19th, 2003, 11:01 AM
For those of you who think that men do not experiment as much as men with the same sex, you don't even know how wrong you are.

In fact, I think it's more prevalent in men then in women, but men are more hush hush about it.

I will admit, however, I was never really sure about this as a gay man until I joined the internet in 1999. You would not even believe the men I have met that are bisexual, have been married or had gfs, are still in the situation and want to get out and etc.

But as someone had said, even in a new century, most men probably are still uncomfortable discussing this topic so that is why you don't see it surrounding you.

But I will repeat, don't even doubt that men explore this part of their sexuality. I can guarantee that of 10 people you know that are not openly gay or appear to be straight, most likely are hiding it from you.

Kanji
Apr 19th, 2003, 01:31 PM
It makes sense! It's hard to define sexuality in three different "boxes" ~~> straight, bi or gay. There are lots of "inbetweens" too! I mean I like mainly women, but I sitll like some guys too. I say I'm gay though because it's a whole lot easier than saying "I like women mainly, but I also like guys occasionally" and then people want further explanation. It's just easlier to say I'm "gay" or "lesbian". But people do want nice neat categories for everything and it's often not like that. Plus at different stages of our lives we may feel differently! ;)
I heard someday about somekind of chart for sexuality preferences (it was from Freud or something like that). The chart is from one to ten with 1 being completely gay (same-sex-oriented) and 10 completely straight (opposed-sex-oriented) and 5 completely bisexual. So, most people will be bisexuals at different degrees...

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Apr 19th, 2003, 03:11 PM
I think that was the Kinsey scale. It caused a lot of controversy because it was made in the 1950's when gays had virtually no rights.


Also - Freud had the theory that gays never left the stage of youth where they were infactuated with their mothere, therefore inable to love other women.....or something like that. Total bullshit if you ask me. Funny - he never spoke of lesbianism, as far as I'm aware.

DutchieGirl
Apr 19th, 2003, 03:22 PM
a. I've studied Freud and I think he's a weirdo! ;)

b. I think the scale is right though - people can be on a range from 1-10. If 1 is straight and 10 is gay I'd probably be an 8 or9! ;)

Messenger
Apr 19th, 2003, 03:46 PM
I had two boyfs in high school - but neither were very serious! Nothing more than hand holding stuff. I just really wasn't that interested!

Then I've had a net relationship with a guy. I did meet him twice, but by then I was already saying I was bi (he knew about it). But when it didn't work with him, I realised that I really don't think about guys in the same way I do girls. Don't get me wrong, I still find some guys very attractive, and IF the right guy and opportunity came along, I'm not saying I wouldn't be with a guy, but I much prefer women.

Actually, I told my Dad that I'm bi and he didn't believe me, but no, he didn't give me a hard time about it. But I think it's because I didn't bring a girl home or something yet. I still don't think he'd react well if I do bring a girl home. He still makes bad comments when he sees stuff about gay people. The other day there was a performance of TaTu on MMTV and they kissed and he made some smart ass remark! :rolleyes:

Oh well, I'm sure he'll be okay with your future girlfriend eventually. And I like Tatu, they're crazy Russians.

:)

Osssge
Apr 19th, 2003, 04:01 PM
Oh well, I confess this board is making me GAY!!

Messenger
Apr 19th, 2003, 04:56 PM
Yeah, maybe we're missing out on something good.

;)