PDA

View Full Version : Carl Lewis is a sack of shit


disposablehero
Apr 18th, 2003, 12:36 AM
I think this statement deserves its own thread. I remember thinking what a whiny punk he was in the lead-up to the 1988 Olympics. Because he was getting his ass whipped by Ben Johnson on a regular basis and all but publically accusing Ben of doping. I remember comments like "You see some guys have gotten a lot faster lately, and you see the symptoms, and you know." He was obviously finger-pointing at Ben. Then when the big race came and he got punked again, an odd thing happened. After something like 2 years of taking steroids, Ben Johnson suddenly got caught for the first time ever. Carl got to celebrate his Gold medal and reiterate to everyone how this was a victory for clean athletes and how Ben had been cheating him. Well...

Fucking douchebag.

~ The Leopard ~
Apr 18th, 2003, 12:39 AM
Huh?

disposablehero
Apr 18th, 2003, 12:53 AM
Carl Lewis has been revealed to be one of the people given a free ride by the USOC after failed drug tests. Leading up to the 1988 Olympics.

~ The Leopard ~
Apr 18th, 2003, 01:04 AM
Yeah, for having a low level (it seems) of pseudoephedrine, a mild stimulant, at some point prior to the Olympics. This is the sort of thing you could get from taking a couple of Sudafeds for a cold, and there is no evidence that he was using any stimulant in competition.

Are you really saying that what Lewis probably did - i.e. took a few cold tablets while in training - is morally equivalent to abusing steroids for muscle gain?

That's like saying that I can't criticise a rapist or murderer because I have some parking tickets myself and thus I am also "a criminal".

There's a whole thread on this in GM. Maybe you should express your views there. Some people seem to agree with you and think that Carl Lewis and Mary Joe Fernandez deserve to be stigmatised as drug cheats. Personally, I think that is very naive.

disposablehero
Apr 18th, 2003, 03:14 AM
Well, it must have had some beneficial effect to have kept on turning up on Lewis, his training partner, etc. At least MJ came clean with a plausible story, rather than avoiding comment. And at least she didn't spend her whole career crying about how she was battling against drug cheats.

switz
Apr 18th, 2003, 06:33 AM
quite sad that you are try to use carl lewis' actions as a justification for ben johnson ttaking steriods. he may have whinged, but he was right wasn't he? obviously lewis did nothing to warrant action from the international governing body so why does it matter if the USOC tried to cover things up? how could they? are you saying the USOC gave him masking agents? and if so i think this story would have got just a little bit more press. the USOC don't conduct the official drug tests. ben johnson kicked his arse, but he was a drug cheat and has never been proved not to be. you are fighting a losing battle here, especially when it just happens to say in your location profile that you are canadian. i don't like carl lewis, but your argument is very weak. you would be just better off saying he is a dick head and not bringing up baseless allegations

rand
Apr 18th, 2003, 08:22 AM
it's strange...on this board you all only talk of the pseudo-ephedrine with carl lewis, while he is accused of having used three products: pseudo-ephedrine, ephedrine and fenylpropanolamine( don't know how you say it in english), + the fact the "coughing-syrup" theory is strongly to be suspected when you know that for example joe DeLoach and Andre Philips were caught with EXACTLY the same products......

~ The Leopard ~
Apr 18th, 2003, 09:00 AM
Well, maybe the three of them were all taking the same cough mixture. :)

That said, I suppose we've focused on the pseudoephedrine because we've been more interested in Mary Joe Fernandez than in Carl Lewis. As far as I know, the allegations in respect of Mary Joe relate only to pseudoephedrine. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It would be interesting to know exactly what was in Lewis's sample, in what amounts, how it compares with what was in cold tablets and cough syrups at the time etc. Perhaps there has been a horrible cover up, but I can't help feel that the facts must have been such as to suggest merely inadvertent, not negligent or imprudent etc, use as understood by the standards of 1988.

Maybe I'm wrong and dh is right; maybe Lewis is as guilty as hell. Fact is, he didn't get a hearing at the time and it's too late now.

And, even taken at its worst, I suspect it would only have got Lewis and the others a warning (whereas, in competition, he might have been disqualified from the event). At any rate, it in no way helps Ben Jonson, who was certainly guilty of something much worse.

Rand: If you know more about the rules re these substances, and how the rules were interpreted and applied back in 1988, please tell us. I'm not too proud to learn something.

rand
Apr 18th, 2003, 09:19 AM
unfortunately I can not help you further I'm not specialised in drugs (though I know a lot more about what's used in the cycling world, athletics just isn't really my domain)
the point is, I'm not sure at all, but the story seems strange enough.....
when at least 37 athletes of a country in the same period are tested positive on similar products, I think its normal people start to get more than suspicious.....but it would indeed be wise to wait if we hear anything about the (in)famous coughing syrup before accusing them too fast.....

The Crow
Apr 18th, 2003, 09:48 AM
Well if there was need to cover it up, I'm pretty sure it wasn't cough syrup they took :rolleyes:

rand
Apr 18th, 2003, 10:18 AM
what I would say is... we all know ephedrine is good for masking other products (actually it's its main use....) so the fact that was found, and they didn't make further analysis at that time is really a hint that there was something going on, that's why I'm suspicious.....

per4ever
Apr 18th, 2003, 10:23 AM
just name me one athlete who doesn't take products :rolleyes:

rand
Apr 18th, 2003, 10:31 AM
you're right, but the point with lewsis is off course: remember the bashing he did on ben johnson when he was caught, and the fact he spent years doing as if he was "the" clean athlete, really making a point of it all the time....

disposablehero
Apr 18th, 2003, 10:51 AM
you're right, but the point with lewsis is off course: remember the bashing he did on ben johnson when he was caught, and the fact he spent years doing as if he was "the" clean athlete, really making a point of it all the time....

This is the big issue, not anything about Ben Johnson. Carl Lewis, even before the 1988 Olympics, wouldn't be satisfied with a medal podium. He had to put himself on a pedastal, and constantly remind us how far more moral he was than any of his competitors. Of course, this was long before he got arrested for driving pissed to the gills.

Pureracket
Apr 18th, 2003, 11:52 AM
One thing that I have discovered from years and years of these drug scandals: It seems that all world class Athletes take LOTS of cold medicine.

carot
Apr 18th, 2003, 11:55 AM
One thing that I have discovered from years and years of these drug scandals: It seems that all world class Athletes take LOTS of cold medicine.
must be from wearing so little clothing

Dava
Apr 18th, 2003, 12:03 PM
I just cant believe it, Athletics is the most corrupt sport ever, I hope that all the people from now on are clean.

Carl Lewis deprived Linford Christie another Olympic Gold and a world record (in 1993 the second fastest time at the time).

carot
Apr 18th, 2003, 12:13 PM
and linford christie was clean... lmao :p

my point is: everyone is doped, so noone has the advantage over the other, just get a better pharmacist ;)

Dava
Apr 18th, 2003, 12:19 PM
Linford Christie was clean, it was only in later life which he tested positive for a subtance, which anyway can be developed in the body naturally (my grandfather told me hes a chemist).

~ The Leopard ~
Apr 18th, 2003, 12:21 PM
Funny how you guys are all more cynical about athletes than about journalists, who are paid to write sensational stories, and officials who want their jobs back, and have an axe to grind. For me, it's the opposite.

Oh well, whatever.

But, be that as it may, I am confused about one thing. I now find I can't work out what process was actually followed with Lewis. The other thread had a reference to letters being sent to some athletes, including Lewis, saying, in effect, that they didn't even have to explain themselves because it was already decided that the drug usage was inadvertent. But there is also reference to Lewis originally being banned from the team and winning an appeal. Is it clear to others what the actual order of events was? It's not clear to me. :confused:

rand
Apr 18th, 2003, 12:22 PM
so...an athlete is clean as long as he doesn't get caught? euh ROFLOL

rand
Apr 18th, 2003, 12:24 PM
Funny how you guys are all more cynical about athletes than about journalists, who are paid to write sensational stories, and officials who want their jobs back, and have an axe to grind. For me, it's the opposite.

Oh well, whatever.

But, be that as it may, I am confused about one thing. I now find I can't work out what process was actually followed with Lewis. The other thread had a reference to letters being sent to some athletes, including Lewis, saying, in effect, that they didn't even have to explain themselves because it was already decided that the drug usage was inadvertent. But there is also reference to Lewis originally being banned from the team and winning an appeal. Is it clear to others what the actual order of events was? It's not clear to me. :confused:
I saw the two versions too, dunno.....I don't believe the first version though...seems TOO far fetched....

doloresc
Apr 18th, 2003, 12:52 PM
no offense but have you been keeping this pent-up inside for 15 years or has carl lewis made the news recently? i was really disappointed for ben johnson in seoul.

Dava
Apr 18th, 2003, 12:53 PM
Its all over the papers this morning!

doloresc
Apr 18th, 2003, 01:12 PM
Its all over the papers this morning!

thanks, dava_russianrule. it hasn't made any headlines here in the united states (not even on cnn) but i'll look out for it.

switz
Apr 18th, 2003, 02:43 PM
thanks, dava_russianrule. it hasn't made any headlines here in the united states (not even on cnn) but i'll look out for it.

yeah when i made my first post i thought it was just someone pissed about something that happened 15 years ago to. i even had to think about who carl lewis was for about 2 seconds.

i will just use this logic though -

ben johnson: found guilty of a specific violation of athletics regulations by an independant body

carl lewis: presumed to be guilty of a vague violation of athletics regulations by the media

- lewis probably is guilty and i never liked him anyway, but we really can't know until we have a clearer picture of what happened and he is judged by a sliightly more authoritive force.

duck
Apr 18th, 2003, 04:06 PM
Lewis named in US drugs 'cover-up'
By David Powell, Athletics Correspondent (Times UK)

LEADING Olympic athletes and officials are calling for an open investigation into allegations of a drugs cover-up by the United States after the release of documents purporting to show that several gold medal-winners, including Carl Lewis, failed drugs tests between 1988 and 2000.
Lewis is said to have tested positive three times at the 1988 US Olympic trials for small amounts of banned stimulants found in cold cures. According to the documents, the United States Olympic Committee (USOC) disqualified him but accepted his appeal on the basis of inadvertent use.

Lewis won nine Olympic gold medals, including one for the 100 metres in Seoul in 1988 after Ben Johnson, of Canada, had been stripped of the title for a positive steroid test. Under the international rules of the time, the use of banned stimulants carried an automatic three-month suspension.

Lewis now joins Johnson and Linford Christie in drugs allegations relating to that race. Christie, the Briton who was promoted from bronze to silver medal-winner after Johnson was disqualified, was given what the International Olympic Committee described as “the benefit of the doubt” when pseudoephedrine, a stimulant, was found in his sample.

Christie had argued that the stimulant was contained in the ginseng supplements he had been taking. Joe Douglas, Lewis’s manager, said that his athlete had never taken performance-enhancing drugs. In fact, Lewis has been a longstanding outspoken critic of drug abuse.

Other American champions in Seoul identified as having failed tests, but who were let off by the USOC, include Joe DeLoach, winner of the 200 metres, and Andre Phillips, who took the gold in the 400 metres hurdles. DeLoach was Lewis’s training partner and, according to the documents, tested positive for the same stimulants.

Dick Pound, the head of the World Anti-Doping Agency, has dismissed claims of inadvertent use. That defence did not, after all, allow Alain Baxter, the Great Britain skier, to keep his bronze medal from the 2002 Winter Olympics. He used an inhaler for medical reasons, but it was ruled that he should have known its contents.

“At the time this happened, Carl Lewis already had four gold medals from the Olympics,” Pound said. “You know perfectly well you have got to be very careful what you take. The offence is the presence of the substance in your body.” Pound added that all the details from the files should be made known.

“The more the world knows, and the US public knows, what the USOC was doing, the more likely they are to fix the problem.” More than 30,000 pages of documents, in which the athletes’ identities are disclosed, were released to Sports Illustrated, an American magazine, and to the Orange County Register newspaper.

They were released by Dr Wade Exum, the USOC director for drug control from 1991 to 2000. The USOC said that Exum’s accusations were groundless. Since he threatened these revelations, it has portrayed him as a disgruntled employee whose job was in jeopardy when he left.

“I find it ironic that Dr Exum was actually running the programme he claims was so flawed,” Frank Marshall, the USOC vice president, said. “When USADA (United States Anti-Doping Agency) was created three years ago, he was out of a job. It is now considered to be one of the best anti-doping programmes in the world, so what’s his point?” Exum claims that in excess of 100 positive tests were conducted on American sportsmen and women, including 19 medal-winners. He had planned to use the documents in his racial discrimination and wrongful dismissal case against the USOC, but it was dismissed in court through lack of evidence.

Also named is Mary Joe Fernandez, the American tennis player who won three medals in 1992 and 1996. The documents show that Fernandez tested positive for pseudoephedrine at a WTA event in Miami in 1992, but she said it was attributable to a cold cure. “I have always tried to live an upright and moral life and for something to come out that is not true is disappointing,” she said. “I think the doctor is lashing out now because he did not win his case.”

However, Evelyn Ashford, the American who won the women’s Olympic 100 metres in 1984 and was runner-up in 1988, is among those calling for a review. “It should all be done in the open,” she said. “They should clean up the mess they made. For so many years I lived it. I knew this was going on.”

The top four in 1988

1st BEN JOHNSON (Canada)
Disqualified from 1988 Olympic 100 metres after steroids test; three positive tests later, he is now personal trainer to Soad Gaddafi, Libyan leader’s son

2nd CARL LEWIS (US)
Winner of nine Olympic gold medals and a record eight World Championship titles; last heard of making B movies, including Atomic Twister and Alien Hunter

3rd LINFORD CHRISTIE (GB)
1992 Olympic 100 metres champion and 1993 world champion; tested positive for nandrolone in 1999; went on to coach young British athletes

4th CALVIN SMITH (US)
Set 100 metres world record in 1983; 200 metres world champion in 1983 and 1987; present whereabouts and occupation unknown

decemberlove
Apr 18th, 2003, 06:38 PM
i dont really care who did what..

what i want to know is WHY are people so upset/shocked at the news that maybe people cheat. oh no. most people you are on top, no matter what their area of expertise may be, have cheated in some way or form to help them get their. don't be so naive... it happens everywhere, everyday.

disposablehero
Apr 18th, 2003, 09:13 PM
no offense but have you been keeping this pent-up inside for 15 years or has carl lewis made the news recently? i was really disappointed for ben johnson in seoul.

Both. I've absolutely been keeping this pent up for 15 years. Longer, in fact. I disliked Carl Lewis in 1984. But he also recently made the news as one of the billions of American drug cheats who was never reported to the IOC.

disposablehero
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:40 AM
Well, at least Carl learned his lesson from that drunk driving conviction in Texas a few years back.

Athletics: Carl Lewis arrested

23.04.2003 5.09 am

Olympic athletics legend Carl Lewis was arrested for suspected drink- driving after his sports car crashed in Los Angeles.

The former sprinter/long jumper/relay anchor won gold medals in the 1984, 1988, 1992 and 1996 Olympics. He is one of only three athletes to win the gold in a single event (long jump) four times.

Police said Lewis failed a series of sobriety tests. His blood-alcohol level was above 0.08 per cent - the state's legal limit.

The arrest came after a week of bad publicity for the man who has won nine Olympic golds. Sports Illustrated named him as one of more than 100 US athletes allowed to enter international competitions after allegedly failing doping tests.

rand
Apr 24th, 2003, 08:37 AM
i dont really care who did what..

what i want to know is WHY are people so upset/shocked at the news that maybe people cheat. oh no. most people you are on top, no matter what their area of expertise may be, have cheated in some way or form to help them get their. don't be so naive... it happens everywhere, everyday.
it's not that...hey I'm a cycling fanatic...if I would get upset at anyone getting positive controles I would never watch it anymore....it's more about how someone can realy spend years and years of specifically (when not being asked about it) drags on about the fact that he's the cleanest athlete ever...and he finally appears to be as much a fraud as the other ones....if you want to use, then use, but don't act like the moral salvation of sports.....

disposablehero
Oct 21st, 2010, 09:39 PM
Old thread search. I lol'd at this title.

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 21st, 2010, 09:45 PM
Old thread search. I lol'd at this title.
Dispicablezero...where you been? :eek:

jrm
Oct 22nd, 2010, 10:56 AM
When Johnson won that race, Lewis' face was like 'WTF, i dope and i still couldn't win'

King Halep
Oct 24th, 2010, 02:03 AM
One thing that I have discovered from years and years of these drug scandals: It seems that all world class Athletes take LOTS of cold medicine.

Yes, well said

:worship::worship::worship:



Latest case, its almost as good as Contador's contaminated steak:


LaShawn Merritt, the reigning Olympic 400m champion, has been banned until July 27, 2011 as a punishment for three failed drugs tests.

Merritt, who did not return a positive sample following his Olympic gold medal-winning effort of 2008, was handed a 21-month suspension on Monday. The penalty relates to failed tests taken in October and December 2009, and January 2010.

However, Merritt did manage to prove that his use of dehydroepiandrosterone and pregnenolone was not related to an effort to enhance his performance, so a three-man American Arbitration Association is confident he will be allowed to race at the London 2012 Olympics.

"He wasn't training so he wasn't thinking about track," read Monday's ruling. "His mindset when purchasing the product was thinking about having sex with a woman.

"It never entered his mind that the product contained a steroid derivative. He admitted he did not look at the label.

Super Dave
Oct 25th, 2010, 01:32 PM
HJLvCM4j2mg

UH oh

Nicolas
Oct 26th, 2010, 09:24 AM
Totally