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View Full Version : At 94 votes, Kim wins, but not by a overwhelming majority


Tennis Fool
Apr 14th, 2003, 12:29 AM
**Update, Monday, April 15th**

I'm closing this poll at 94 votes. Kim gets the majority at 57%. I thought this would be higher, since the majority of posters who wrote a message placed Kim in the overwheming majority.

Makes me wonder if Kim fans are more agressive? ;)
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Haven't seen this discussed in a while. Today is the perfect time to bring this up again, IMHO.

What do you think?

CJ07
Apr 14th, 2003, 12:30 AM
Justine has twice the talent Kim does
But Kim is harnesing it

Ok twice is an exaggeration but she has a more complete game and is almost Hingis-like in how she knows the court.

Tennis Fool
Apr 14th, 2003, 12:33 AM
My view:

Clijsters has the power.
Justine has probably the most beautiful game in women's tennis to watch, IMHO.

Not sure who is the best, yet. I think Justine is mentally tougher, so I'll give her the edge.

Dava
Apr 14th, 2003, 12:37 AM
I think Kim, but then Im biased. Justine is more textbook tennis, but Kim has a certain Je Ne Sais Quai about her tennis which when its on is great to watch.

Crazy Canuck
Apr 14th, 2003, 12:44 AM
Kim is better right now, but Justine has the talent to close the gap imo.

Leena
Apr 14th, 2003, 12:47 AM
They have similar stats in Grand Slams... so we'll go with this.

SF Antwerp Feb 16 2003 K Clijsters(2) - J Henin-Hardenne(3) 6-2 7-63
SF Sydney Jan 12 2003 K Clijsters(2) - J Henin-Hardenne(3) 6-2 6-3
QF Los Angeles Nov 10 2002 K Clijsters(5) - J Henin-Hardenne(4) 6-2 6-1
SF Rome May 19 2002 J Henin-Hardenne(5) - K Clijsters(3) 7-5 6-2
QF Australian O. Jan 27 2002 K Clijsters(4) - J Henin-Hardenne(6) 6-2 6-3
QF Sydney Jan 13 2002 K Clijsters(3) - J Henin-Hardenne(5) 7-65 6-2
F Hertogenb. June 24 2001 J Henin-Hardenne(2) - K Clijsters(1) 6-4 3-6 6-3
SF Roland Garros June 10 2001 K Clijsters(12) - J Henin-Hardenne(14) 2-6 7-5 6-3
3 Indian W. Mar 18 2001 K Clijsters(14) - J Henin-Hardenne(17) 1-6 6-4 6-3

That's 7-2 Kim, for the slow people.

Rtael
Apr 14th, 2003, 12:49 AM
Justine is the better player, and one day she'll prove it, she just has a mental problem against Kim and Venus.... but that will change! muhahahahahahahahahaha! erm yeah...

Tennis Fool
Apr 14th, 2003, 12:52 AM
They have similar stats in Grand Slams... so we'll go with this.

SF Antwerp Feb 16 2003 K Clijsters(2) - J Henin-Hardenne(3) 6-2 7-63
SF Sydney Jan 12 2003 K Clijsters(2) - J Henin-Hardenne(3) 6-2 6-3
QF Los Angeles Nov 10 2002 K Clijsters(5) - J Henin-Hardenne(4) 6-2 6-1
SF Rome May 19 2002 J Henin-Hardenne(5) - K Clijsters(3) 7-5 6-2
QF Australian O. Jan 27 2002 K Clijsters(4) - J Henin-Hardenne(6) 6-2 6-3
QF Sydney Jan 13 2002 K Clijsters(3) - J Henin-Hardenne(5) 7-65 6-2
F Hertogenb. June 24 2001 J Henin-Hardenne(2) - K Clijsters(1) 6-4 3-6 6-3
SF Roland Garros June 10 2001 K Clijsters(12) - J Henin-Hardenne(14) 2-6 7-5 6-3
3 Indian W. Mar 18 2001 K Clijsters(14) - J Henin-Hardenne(17) 1-6 6-4 6-3

That's 7-2 Kim, for the slow people.

I think a better indication would be their H2Hs against top 5 players.

Crazy Canuck
Apr 14th, 2003, 12:55 AM
I"m with tennisfool on this. Kim obviously owns Justine, but head to heads alone does not indicate who is the better player, imo.

I'll use an ATP example: Moya trails Ferrero 2-7. Does this mean that Ferrero is a much better player just beacuse their games don't match up well for Moya?

Leena
Apr 14th, 2003, 12:58 AM
I'll use an ATP example: Moya trails Ferrero 2-7. Does this mean that Ferrero is a much better player just beacuse their games don't match up well for Moya?


No. The first criterian for me in rating players, is their performance in Grand Slams. Obviously, Carlos has the advantage there.

Justine & Kim are exactly the same in the amount of finals, and semifinals.

kell
Apr 14th, 2003, 01:00 AM
Justine's tennis is absolutely beautiful to watch. She's so full of talent, but she'll never have the power to be better than Kim. If we are talking about the best BELGIAN player, than their records against other players are irrelevant. If there was a competition between all the belgian players, Kim would win hands down (probably even against the blokes ;) ).

Leena
Apr 14th, 2003, 01:12 AM
I think a better indication would be their H2Hs against top 5 players.
The question was "Who is the better Belgian player?" though...

I don't agree with the only Top 5 H2H's, because 1) consistency is the biggest thing in the WTA rankings... and 2) You can't compare defeating Venus or Serena to defeating Dani.

vs1
Apr 14th, 2003, 01:36 AM
They are both wonderful, but right now, I think Kim is the better player. Who knows what it'll be in a few years, or when their tennis careers are over?! My assessment is only the current standings.

Darkheart
Apr 14th, 2003, 01:37 AM
Justine Henin-Hardenne:

2 tier 1's
6 other titles
1 slam final

Kim Clijsters:

1 WTA Championships
1 tier 1
10 other titles
1 slam final

Kim has the better career up to this point.

disposablehero
Apr 14th, 2003, 01:39 AM
I don't agree with the only Top 5 H2H's, because 1) consistency is the biggest thing in the WTA rankings... and 2) You can't compare defeating Venus or Serena to defeating Dani.

OK fine, Top 4 head to heads then:

Kim 10-14
Justine 5-18

Bigger title? Kim.
Bigger Recent Title? Kim.
More Titles? Kim.
More Recent Titles? Kim.
Career Earnings? Kim.
Current Ranking? Kim.
Career High Ranking? Kim.

Justine has done better than Kim against Serena Williams on Clay, that's it. Of course, Kim hasn't actually PLAYED Serena on Clay.

Leena
Apr 14th, 2003, 01:41 AM
OK fine, Top 4 head to heads then:

Kim 10-14
Justine 5-18

Bigger title? Kim.
Bigger Recent Title? Kim.
More Titles? Kim.
More Recent Titles? Kim.
Career Earnings? Kim.
Current Ranking? Kim.
Career High Ranking? Kim.

Justine has done better than Kim against Serena Williams on Clay, that's it. Of course, Kim hasn't actually PLAYED Serena on Clay.
Thanks. :p

The answer is Kim.

Chance
Apr 14th, 2003, 01:42 AM
Justine has also done better against Monica and Jennifer.

TennisHack
Apr 14th, 2003, 01:52 AM
The poll question is, "Which Belgian player is having the better career?"

Kim, hands down, for the reasons disposablehero cited.

Now, as to who will HAVE the better career . . . who knows? Both are young and very talented, and so far have been pretty neck and neck with each other vis a vis the milestones of a career. Kim looks to be pulling away this year, but today's win could start something for Justine, too.

minboy
Apr 14th, 2003, 01:53 AM
Justine & Kim are exactly the same in the amount of finals, and semifinals.


tss tss
justine has 1 final + 3 semis
kim has 1 final + 2 semis

disposablehero
Apr 14th, 2003, 01:54 AM
Justine has also done better against Monica and Jennifer.

The last time Kim played either of them was Miami in 2002. At that time, Justine was 1-1 against Jen and 0-4 against Monica.

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 14th, 2003, 01:55 AM
if justine lost today kim would be way ahead in the poll...

overall kim is better....

Crazy Canuck
Apr 14th, 2003, 01:58 AM
tss tss
justine has 1 final + 3 semis
kim has 1 final + 2 semis

Well then, that changes your arguement a bit Leena, doesn't it? :)

I've already said that Kim is better right now... I don't see how that can be disputed really, unless by right now we mean Sunday, April 13th...

But head to heads only show us how two players match up, they don't necessarily indicate who is better, imo.

selesfan
Apr 14th, 2003, 02:01 AM
Kim is the better player at this time but Justine is closing the gap.

BasicTennis
Apr 14th, 2003, 04:34 AM
Kim no doubt.;)

Even on clay, I believe Kim would dump Justine.

selesfan
Apr 14th, 2003, 05:29 AM
Kim no doubt.;)

Even on clay, I believe Kim would dump Justine.

She already did at RG in 2001. ;)

Mattographer
Apr 14th, 2003, 05:35 AM
Kim for sure!!

disposablehero
Apr 14th, 2003, 05:42 AM
Y'all are just searching desperately for a GWH to knock Kim off her pedastal.

Great Walloon Hope

spencercarlos
Apr 14th, 2003, 05:57 AM
They have similar stats in Grand Slams... so we'll go with this.

SF Antwerp Feb 16 2003 K Clijsters(2) - J Henin-Hardenne(3) 6-2 7-63
SF Sydney Jan 12 2003 K Clijsters(2) - J Henin-Hardenne(3) 6-2 6-3
QF Los Angeles Nov 10 2002 K Clijsters(5) - J Henin-Hardenne(4) 6-2 6-1
SF Rome May 19 2002 J Henin-Hardenne(5) - K Clijsters(3) 7-5 6-2
QF Australian O. Jan 27 2002 K Clijsters(4) - J Henin-Hardenne(6) 6-2 6-3
QF Sydney Jan 13 2002 K Clijsters(3) - J Henin-Hardenne(5) 7-65 6-2
F Hertogenb. June 24 2001 J Henin-Hardenne(2) - K Clijsters(1) 6-4 3-6 6-3
SF Roland Garros June 10 2001 K Clijsters(12) - J Henin-Hardenne(14) 2-6 7-5 6-3
3 Indian W. Mar 18 2001 K Clijsters(14) - J Henin-Hardenne(17) 1-6 6-4 6-3

That's 7-2 Kim, for the slow people.
I agree you Leena, Plus people forget Clijsters won Los Angeles masters. So thats a bigger win than any Tier I event.

Come-on-kim
Apr 14th, 2003, 06:53 AM
Kim!

1jackson2001
Apr 14th, 2003, 06:58 AM
Kim is the better overall player....Justine is better at beating Serena on clay at the moment.

E. Blackadder
Apr 14th, 2003, 07:59 AM
Els is the best Belgian! I refuse to vote :p

Filip!
Apr 14th, 2003, 08:08 AM
Justine is the most talented girl! But her mental strength is still growing, so I think Justine will play at her best in a year or 2 years...

Kim is the better player at this moment, but my #1 favo is and stays Justine!!!

gladysharon
Apr 14th, 2003, 08:21 AM
Just like filip...
My answer will always be Justine to me cos she's my number one player.
Kim does look stronger...but Justine will grow.

per4ever
Apr 14th, 2003, 08:28 AM
Kim is the better player atm, but imo Justine is better on clay and on grass.

Anyway Justine has the talent to close the gap with Kim :)

propi
Apr 14th, 2003, 08:49 AM
I think Justine is more talented but is Kim the one who has better results

Glenn
Apr 14th, 2003, 09:04 AM
She already did at RG in 2001. ;)

Rome 2002 was a different story now wasn't it?

irma
Apr 14th, 2003, 09:05 AM
the same as last week ;)

Come-on-kim
Apr 14th, 2003, 09:07 AM
Rome 2002 was a different story now wasn't it?
Yes, but that was when Kim began to play bad!!

Mercury Rising
Apr 14th, 2003, 09:45 AM
I voted realistically Kim, but Justine can close the gap, she will always be my numéro uno :kiss:

Astro Jetson
Apr 14th, 2003, 10:00 AM
I wish it was Justine, but I voted for Clijsters.

tfannis
Apr 14th, 2003, 10:03 AM
Kim :) Better ranking, leads H2H, biggest title, more titles...

Kim the true number 3, Justine the true number 4 :)
:worship: both of them :D

Bigkimfan
Apr 14th, 2003, 10:05 AM
Kim ofcourse! :worship: ;)

Gowza
Apr 14th, 2003, 10:11 AM
i think that kim is the better player when it comes to the different surfaces. but justine has done better at wimbledon which has surprised me. if i base it on their threat to the williams sisters then i have to say kim because she can do it on all surfaces whereas justine has so far really only done it on clay. justine does have the talent.

but at the moment kim is better.

saki
Apr 14th, 2003, 01:00 PM
What it comes down to is surfaces.

On clay, Justine & Serena are head and shoulders better than anyone else on tour. Kim & Venus are next, then Jen, Monica & Amelie.

On grass, Serena & Venus are much better than anyone else. But Justine and, arguably, Amelie are close. Then Kim, Linday, Monica.

On hardcourts, Serena, Venus, Kim, LInday, Jen, Monica are pretty close together with Justine, Daniela, Jelena et al following.

On Rebound Ace/Indoors, things are relatively close. Serena & Jen have the best Oz Open records of active players, but Linday, Kim, Jelena, Justine also seem to do fairly well.

So, on balance, I think that Justine is a genuine challenger on more surfaces than Kim. She can beat anyone on clay on her day (and she'll prove it against Kim & Venus before the season's over); she's more of a threat on grass than Kim; she's more or less equal with Kim on Rebound Ace; it's only on hardcourt that Kim is superior to her.

Kim is more consistent and has marginally better results to date, but I still maintain that Justine is the better player because she is the more competitive on more surfaces.

Tennis Fool
Apr 14th, 2003, 11:24 PM
*bump* 4/14/03 update.