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View Full Version : Why Harkelroad Will Never Be Good


ASV
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:03 PM
Her forehand. It's way too extreme. Almost like Anke's. It can work a lot, but it will let her down the same amount. She needs to rework it.

Am I right or am I right?

Venus Forever
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:06 PM
She's young, she will learn, she can change.;)

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:06 PM
forehand is a bit extreme....shes young though

GO ASHLEY WHAT A WEEK!!!!

ASV
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:08 PM
You do have a point....what a week!

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:09 PM
You do have a point....what a week!
but i do see your point....she would do good to tone it down a bit...but again, WHAT A WEEK, ;) and shes got plenty of time.

Infiniti2001
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:10 PM
She plays like hingis to me.. If she wants to really make it in the top, she needs to play differently... Of course she is young..

Seenus
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:10 PM
A strange prediction

BK4ever
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:12 PM
Actually thats a new forehand for her...it is much more extreme than it was last summer(I'm not happy about it) but I know why they did it.

She use to have lots of trouble getting enuf racquet head speed and I think thats why they changed it. The only issue I see with it is that she doesnt get enuf depth at times.

But let me tell ya...she has improved tremendously since last summer.

That match against Henin was much closer than the scoreline...I felt that Ash was returning serve right on the baseline, but then backing up during the rallies. She also needs to work on her net game.

Venus Forever
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:12 PM
I think Ashley needs to play a tad bit more aggressive. Justine really controlled the points, especially due to the weak forehand, but Ashley can work on it.

WtaTour4Ever
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:14 PM
Maybe b/c I only say a little of the match with Henin I'm not seeing her full potential, but I didn't see anything Hingis like in her play. Hingis made tennis look way to easy....... but i'll reserve judgement until I see her again.

As far as her forehand, I was thinking the same thing ....she seems to be all over the place.

BK4ever
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:14 PM
She also had really nice angles and she handled both the high and low balls really well. She needs to work on her forward movement though. She could learn to incorporate the slice as well.

downtheline
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:14 PM
Her forehand is very much like Anke's as well as her serve.

The difference it that Ashley hits through and is not as wristy on the follow through. She also plants more solidly with her right-leg on the open stance.

The only trouble would be low wide balls. Enqvist has that trouble too as do a lot of Western grip players.

I think she has had some good coaching, and they would teach her now how to fully take advantage of that style of forehand.

She is definitely future top 20 caliber. The confidence her good looks provide her will also serve her well.

BK4ever
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:21 PM
ASV...I think saying she won't be good is over the top, especially comparing her to Anke...who was good just not great. I think Anke never became great, not because of her forehand, but because she was mentally weak.

Juju's forehand is also extreme...but she gets good racquet head speed, which compensates for her big wind up. If you consistently pound balls hard and deep at Juju's forehand...it will crumble...see all her matches against Venus on HC's

treufreund
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:24 PM
She does NOT play like Hingis. Hingis took the ball much earlier and painted the lines more and was VERY GOOD at the net unlike Ashley. Also Hingis had way more finesse and much better at reading her opponents/anticipation and changing the tactics constantly.

Her forehand is not as good as Anke's. Anke has tremendous topspin and could really boss people around with her wicked topspin. Anke's problem was never her forehand but rather her head. Mentally Anke was fragile. Ashley does not to develop a flatter forehand at times but on clay her extreme forehand can be VERY effective.

treufreund
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:27 PM
also Anke was very good at DISGUISING her forehand because she hit it closed or semi-closed stance. so not only could angle with wicked topspin but it was tough to read. Players like Hingis who took the ball early or Davenport/Seles who could really crush the ball could break down Anke's forehand but usually after attacking her backhand. If Anke got control of a point with her forehand you were in deep shi*

G_Slammed
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:28 PM
Plays like Hingis huh?

People seem to be thinking less and less of Hingis as a tennis player.

treufreund
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:33 PM
Plays like Hingis huh?

People seem to be thinking less and less of Hingis as a tennis player.


Basically any girl that comes around who is less than 5'7" and does not play power tennis is compared to Hingis. :rolleyes: Just a basic lack of understanding just how good Hingis was before her injuries and lost confidence.

BK4ever
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:39 PM
Well give Ashley time...she just changed her forehand in the last couple of months...

I think the Hingis thing was more of a comparison of which player her game most resembles...not necesarily and issue of her playing exactly "like" Hingis.

Give her time, she will learn to do more things with this new forehand (event though I dont like it) it has potential

Her backhand look good though...she had nice angles, but I felt she needed to aim closer to the sidelines at times.

BK4ever
Apr 12th, 2003, 09:43 PM
Just a basic lack of understanding just how good Hingis was before her injuries and lost confidence.

You make it sound like it was all injuries and lack of confidence that signal the demise of Hingis...I think they were factors, but not major ones. Hingis' demise came about at her own hands...She failed to change with the game.

I was always amazed at how she could adjust...but she failed to that in the latter stages...She refused to fix her serve and she would not flatten out that forehand enuf...she was content to sit back and hit it with topspin or slap it...that workeg great against most players, but not the elite ones

I still think that if Hingis were to return to the game, she could still have a great career...She would be definitely planted in the top ten...

Tatiana Panova
Apr 12th, 2003, 10:41 PM
Yeah when I saw her play last summer I thought her forehand was too extreme for the modern game. I mean a mid western is OK (eg Mary Pierce, Elena Dementieva, Venus) but her grip is far too extreme meaning that every shot is so much effort.

Its hard to change though - your forehand grip (unlike the others e.g. serving grip) is just the way you pick up the racket and its usually very natural.

She is not a powerhitter though. I think she has more chance if she takes the Agassi/Hingis approach. People underestimate that there are ways to beat the powerhitters (namely the Williams) other than just trying to match them with power. The game is producing so many powerhitters but the problem is that they are starting to equalize each other out, so that it ain't that much of advantage anymore.

If some of the girls could get a strong serve then they could compete and beat the massive sluggers. Look at the men's game - there is so much variety because all have good serves. So if Ashley can get good serve, I see no reason why she can't be the first in a long line of good tacticians that will arise to foil the rise and rise of massive powerhitters.

CJ07
Apr 12th, 2003, 11:03 PM
i didnt really see Hingis in her
she changes us pace alot, which i like, but she doesnt really have authority out there, and yes that forehand is shaky

also, she needs to work on that grunt, it sounds like shes having sex

selesfan
Apr 12th, 2003, 11:10 PM
i didnt really see Hingis in her
she changes us pace alot, which i like, but she doesnt really have authority out there, and yes that forehand is shaky

also, she needs to work on that grunt, it sounds like shes having sex

Monica and Maria Sharapova also sound like they are having sex when they grunt, I didn't see you censor their grunts. :rolleyes:

CJ07
Apr 12th, 2003, 11:18 PM
Monica doesnt sound like that at all when she grunts
she sounds like shes in a boxing fight

ive never seen Sharapova play so i cant comment, but Ashley, at least during that snippet, definately has an erotic grunt

also, while this may sound stupid, her grunt is way too defensive, it sounds like shes saying, "stop beating me!".

The thing that makes Monica's grunt so original, and so great, also Serenas for that matter, is that its always an athoritative grunt. Even when they're losing, its like they're saying I dare you to beat me.

While its just a grunt, it is giving something away to your opponent, I know its stupid, but its just my two cents

Pamela Shriver
Apr 13th, 2003, 12:12 AM
Why Harkelroad Will Never Be Good

......because she's not me!

GBFH
Apr 13th, 2003, 12:15 AM
......because she's not me!

Oh PAMMERS!!

EXQUISITE commentary today! I can't believe Tracy Austin got Chris Everts' job! :)

billie_jean_king
Apr 13th, 2003, 12:15 AM
She can play in MY Fed Cup team can't she? Ooh, I like her. I might go and talk to her sometime.

She's no Jen though. :sad:

Pamela Shriver
Apr 13th, 2003, 12:25 AM
.....She's no me either.

Yeah my pammentary was Pamtastic today

ASV
Apr 13th, 2003, 12:26 AM
Monica doesnt sound like that at all when she grunts
she sounds like shes in a boxing fight

ive never seen Sharapova play so i cant comment, but Ashley, at least during that snippet, definately has an erotic grunt

also, while this may sound stupid, her grunt is way too defensive, it sounds like shes saying, "stop beating me!".

The thing that makes Monica's grunt so original, and so great, also Serenas for that matter, is that its always an athoritative grunt. Even when they're losing, its like they're saying I dare you to beat me.

While its just a grunt, it is giving something away to your opponent, I know its stupid, but its just my two cents
You do have a very good point. Her grunt may end up being a weakness, because it sounds like she's always on defense.

CJ07
Apr 13th, 2003, 12:30 AM
exactly my point ASV

BK4ever
Apr 13th, 2003, 01:40 AM
Yeah when I saw her play last summer I thought her forehand was too extreme for the modern game. I mean a mid western is OK (eg Mary Pierce, Elena Dementieva, Venus) but her grip is far too extreme meaning that every shot is so much effort.

Its hard to change though - your forehand grip (unlike the others e.g. serving grip) is just the way you pick up the racket and its usually very natural.

She is not a powerhitter though. I think she has more chance if she takes the Agassi/Hingis approach. People underestimate that there are ways to beat the powerhitters (namely the Williams) other than just trying to match them with power. The game is producing so many powerhitters but the problem is that they are starting to equalize each other out, so that it ain't that much of advantage anymore.

If some of the girls could get a strong serve then they could compete and beat the massive sluggers. Look at the men's game - there is so much variety because all have good serves. So if Ashley can get good serve, I see no reason why she can't be the first in a long line of good tacticians that will arise to foil the rise and rise of massive powerhitters.

I saw her play last summer as well and I think its even more extreme now...The sad part of it is that she has been getting more and more western...she had a normal semi-western up until she signed up with Clerc and the USTA gang...the problem is, in todays modern game, you have to be able to flatten that stroke out and she has to be in perfect position to do that. Also, even with that grip she doesnt use enough heavy topspin shots.

tennischick
Apr 13th, 2003, 04:57 AM
Hingis??? nothing about Ashley's game reminded me of Hingis. actually she reminded me mostly of Andy Roddick minus the big serve. i'm serious.

joegerardi
Apr 13th, 2003, 05:06 AM
Unfortunately, the extreme Western grip is what everyone wants to play today. They all want to be "big bangers."

I have 1 male and 2 female students, and after all this time training them in good solid tennis with proper stroke and bio-mechanics, I have finally relented and am moving them all towards extreme grips with excessive topspin. They're much happier with it and I'm not. I can consistently beat their game by coming to the net, and they just don't get it. What they also don't get is that I rob them of time because their big topspin shots are so high over the net, and their motion so exagerated, that coming in and hitting a strong, flat shot near their feet robs them of time to get ready for the next ball.

Everyone wants the super-topspin shot, and they all want the extreme grip that goes along with it. I personally play with an Eastern grip, and I try to show them that I can generate as much spin with proper stroke mechanics, but they all constantly go for the "winshield wiper" motion. Hell, my male student just flips his wrist over to produce backhands without ever changing grips.

It's the nature of the game today, and I lament Pete Sampras not playing any more, to show the new balls what elegant, winning tennis is. Thank God for Andre. He still uses a semi-Western, and is as fundamental as a player can get these days.

Dawn Marie
Apr 13th, 2003, 05:28 AM
Anke was mentally undone, Ashley is still young and it is way to early to think that she won't be good because of her forhand. How can you claim that Ashley will never be good because her forhand is like Anke's? Anke's problems were never just her forhand. Again, the girl was a basketcase on the court... mentally fragile. Ashley could be great and be confident and mental focused.

King Lindsay
Apr 13th, 2003, 05:46 AM
Ashley would be fortunate to wind up with a career as good as Huber's.

Dawn Marie
Apr 13th, 2003, 05:53 AM
uh huh, err yeah okay. Let's give Ashley some time though. it's a bit unfair to say she'll never win as much as Anke. She could very well exceed her when it comes to the tennis career.

anton
Apr 13th, 2003, 05:58 AM
i saw ah play a few points ans she has that anke huber forehand which did not take anke too many good places.

but she was mixing it up with some good lobs and i like her spirit and her angles. she needs to get to the net and hit more winners maybe.

also lose maybe 20 pounds before it is too late.

Dawn Marie
Apr 13th, 2003, 06:10 AM
anton, hi. Hokie doggie Hokie doggie hokie doggie. lol

anton
Apr 13th, 2003, 06:13 AM
was up dawn? :D

i saw the ebony with venus and serena and brandi on the cover today.

also james blake is on the new tennis mag cover. :wavey:

Dawn Marie
Apr 13th, 2003, 06:19 AM
cool! how is your naomi cambell site coming along..errr I mean Venus Williams site coming along? :);)

Vee rules! FEARLESS VEE RULEZ!

anton
Apr 13th, 2003, 06:25 AM
good. i hope to meed venus this summer :D

i hope she give me a hug :wavey: